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US Totalitarianism moves into next phase  

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
Bush plans to imprison 'suspects' forever.

Quote:
THE Bush administration is preparing plans for possible lifetime detention of suspected terrorists, including hundreds the government does not have enough evidence to charge in court, it was reported yesterday.

Citing intelligence, defence and diplomatic officials, the Washington Post said the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had asked the White House to decide a more permanent approach for those it did not plan to set free or turn over to courts at home or abroad.

So, let's look at that again:

Including hundreds the government does not have enough evidence to charge in court.

Does not have enough evidence.

Lifetime imprisonment without trial because there is not enough evidence.

And if you let that become acceptable then what's step 2 ? Or 3 ? And for who ?

Some people need to think about that.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #2 of 34
Kill 3000 people? Get out of jail free because the US Army didn't get a warrant to search your cave!
post #3 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Kill 3000 people? Get out of jail free because the US Army didn't get a warrant to search your cave!

What happened to " Innocent until proven guilty "?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #4 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
What happened to " Innocent until proven guilty "?

When did war become the same as law enforcement?

I seem to remember certain leftist elements swearing up and down that Kerry understood the difference between war and law enforcement and that he would fight terrorism as a war.

Now as an aside, we can debate whether these actions are right as war actions, but don't hit us with the law enforcement angle. We tried prosecuting terrorism for years and it didn't work.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #5 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
When did war become the same as law enforcement?

Sigh. Go to the back of the class. As has been said a million times before and will have to be again owing to the difficulties of penetrating the dense matter the planet is currently passing through:

Wars are against states - terrorism is a methodology of war (albeit one that the US, UK and Israel have all often used but they of course will not fight themselves) - therefore any 'war' against 'terrorism' is a non sequtur, am oxymoron and a laughable absurdity that serves only to identify the user as incapable of independent (or possibly any other type) and certainly rational, thought.

As an example of this laughably redundant inexactitude, it would be as if Churchill when faced with the (real) threat of the Nazis were to witter on inanely about 'war on Blitzkrieg' or 'the threat of pincer movements' to the exclusion of any specific enemy.

Except Churchill never would have.

Because he lived in a real world, facing real threats and moreover, was a real leader.

[QUOTE]I seem to remember certain leftist elements swearing up and down that Kerry understood the difference between war and law enforcement and that he would fight terrorism as a war.{/quote]

Great, that's nice for you - but who gives a flying F*** about Kerry ? I mean really ?

Quote:
Now as an aside, we can debate whether these actions are right as war actions, but don't hit us with the law enforcement angle. We tried prosecuting terrorism for years and it didn't work.

The winger intellectual cogs in glorious action:

We tried making a law against murder - it didn't work, people kept doing it.

This is the reductionist mindset in full flight - an awesome thing. Observe and be humbled.

For centuries, all civilized societies knew, absolutely knew that they could never stop crime and lawbreaking. So they invented laws which were punitive rather than preventative. It worked well too, justice was often served and sometimes it even acted as a deterrent.

But then human intellectual faculties atrophied and degenerated to the point that one fine day, some bright spark said 'duh, hold on ...these laws don't work - people are committing crimes (grunt, simper)'.

Of course there was no one with enough brain-power to contradict him and those that could see clearer were operating on a spectrum and wavelength that the dullards couldn't perceive (like we can't hear the sounds that dogs do I guess) - and in a way, this loser was the most intelligent of them all - he could sometimes string sentences together and so on.

So they made him King.

And of course, he had to change the law against murder because otherwise the plebs wouldn't be happy - so they locked everybody up before they had a chance to do it.

You would have thought that maybe the occasional person would see through the stupidity but no, they all agreed - it was a most satisfactory system.

There were rumours that not everyone felt like this of course, but strangely, no one could ever find anyone who did and those whop sometimes suggested something similar just kind of .....disappeared.

But generally, everyone was happy.....in their own limited way.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Sigh. Go to the back of the class. As has been said a million times before and will have to be again owing to the difficulties of penetrating the dense matter the planet is currently passing through:

Wars are against states - terrorism is a methodology of war (albeit one that the US, UK and Israel have all often used but they of course will not fight themselves) - therefore any 'war' against 'terrorism' is a non sequtur, am oxymoron and a laughable absurdity that serves only to identify the user as incapable of independent (or possibly any other type) and certainly rational, thought.

As an example of this laughably redundant inexactitude, it would be as if Churchill when faced with the (real) threat of the Nazis were to witter on inanely about 'war on Blitzkrieg' or 'the threat of pincer movements' to the exclusion of any specific enemy.

Except Churchill never would have.

Because he lived in a real world, facing real threats and moreover, was a real leader.

I think you've moved this discussion into temporary insanity. I mean seriously, talk about holding onto exclusively Western European thinking until literally your death is caused by it.

You claim war can only be a state. Do you fail to realize that most of these "states" are nothing more than division lines drawn in the sand by European nations from the times they controlled these lands? You'll have to pardon the various tribes that work together regardless of these lines and could really give a crap if "we" consider them a nation or not. Likewise they really could careless if their ideology doesn't happen to respect or stop at a border.

By your reasoning China could never invade Taiwan since they don't consider them a nation-state. Most arab nations have still never formally recognized Israel so it must not exist right?

Temporary insanity? More like a permanent and deadly state of delusion.

Quote:
The winger intellectual cogs in glorious action:

Well those "wigner cogs" have gotten about half the left agreeing with them as well.

Quote:
We tried making a law against murder - it didn't work, people kept doing it.

What sort of massive and stupid slippery slope reasoning is this? We made a law against rape as well. People still rape so I guess the act of making the law is totally ineffective and pointless for you.

As for the rest of your deluded slippery slope "reasoning," I'll let it speak for itself since I really could add anything to discredit you any worse than your own words have done.

Read the print folks. Laws that are punitive are not 100% effective and thus all laws lead to tolatarian states.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #7 of 34
Quote:
Kill 3000 people? Get out of jail free because the US Army didn't get a warrant to search your cave!

They killed 3000 people?
The Army needed a warrant?

Sarcasm is not an able substitute for intelligence.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #8 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I think you've moved this discussion into temporary insanity. I mean seriously, talk about holding onto exclusively Western European thinking until literally your death is caused by it.

My view is the opposite of what you would call 'sanity' yes. Labels are irrelevant, I can be insane if you want.

Thing is, we're on opposite sides whoever gets stuck with the pejorative label and only one of us can be right. hence the debate - so let's get on with it....

Quote:
You claim war can only be a state.

You misunderstand, deliberately I suspect (hope) - it's quite simple: state, statelet, civil war, national grouping whatever. The point is that terrorism is a technique used in war therefore it cannot be warred against.

Even the techniques that ARE proscribed are not warred 'against'. They are banned by the Geneva Convention, although some like the US ignore this anyway, but I hope you see the link....tell you what, I'll make it a bit clearer:

China could as you say invade Taiwan whether they are a state or not. But: China could NOT invade terrorism.

Clearer ?

Quote:
Do you fail to realize that most of these "states" are nothing more than division lines drawn in the sand by European nations from the times they controlled these lands? You'll have to pardon the various tribes that work together regardless of these lines and could really give a crap if "we" consider them a nation or not. Likewise they really could careless if their ideology doesn't happen to respect or stop at a border.

See above.

Once more for luck: I was drawing a distinction between physical armies and abstract concepts and not between states and nations or any other geo-political nomenclature.

Quote:
By your reasoning China could never invade Taiwan since they don't consider them a nation-state. Most arab nations have still never formally recognized Israel so it must not exist right?

Err...no.

And Israel is not recognized because that is a diplomatic procedure rather than a position of denial.

Quote:
Temporary insanity? More like a permanent and deadly state of delusion.

You say tomato....

Quote:
Well those "wigner cogs" have gotten about half the left agreeing with them as well.

Well, if so they were never really left then were they ?

Those darn Satanists have got a load of Christians sacrificing to the Goat of Mendes now.....I think not.


Quote:
What sort of massive and stupid slippery slope reasoning is this? We made a law against rape as well. People still rape so I guess the act of making the law is totally ineffective and pointless for you.

As for the rest of your deluded slippery slope "reasoning," I'll let it speak for itself since I really could add anything to discredit you any worse than your own words have done.

Read the print folks. Laws that are punitive are not 100% effective and thus all laws lead to tolatarian states.

Nick

Umm....I was speechless when I got to this bit, at first I thought it was some kind of ironic post-modern psycho-babble that I'm not cool enough to get or that light would dawn when I got to that part of the reply, but no....it really is exactly what it appears to be: indecipherable.

Can someone please for the love of God point out the fallacious decrepitude of this last nonsensical missive......I just can't.....face.....any.....more.....

I'm going out for a walk. I may be some time......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #9 of 34
Thread Starter 
More on the story....

Quote:
The new prison, dubbed Camp 6, would allow inmates more comfort and freedom than they have now, and would be designed for prisoners the Government believes have no more intelligence to share.

Camp 6.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #10 of 34
Segovius is right in that war against terrorism is like war against drugs, pure rhetoric and not a real war.

But I don't think you need a state to go to war, either. Certainly not a state anyone else recognizes. War's a much more fuzzy concept than you'd think at first. You can put together a few guys, agree on an uniform (like a pin attached to hat), declare war, and go to war. I'm not even sure which ones of these steps are necessary - if you consider history, there have been lots and lots of wars which obviously were wars, but one or more steps among these were omitted. And others where all the steps were taken, but the opposing side never admitted it was a war. In my mind that makes them war criminals, anyhow...

Things would be very simple if the Army stayed home. Then anyone fighting them would be either a criminal (if they were US citizens), a soldier (if they were in uniform) or something else. I think the 'something else' types, like spies, could be held for a lifetime and there should be no qualms about that. Anyway there would be a clear process.

Things become much, much more complicated when you're an occupier.
post #11 of 34
The war on terror is a war. It is a different kind of war than we have ever fought, but is none the less a war. It is not a war against an ideology. It is a war against the people who practice that ideology.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
post #12 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The war on terror is a war. It is a different kind of war than we have ever fought, but is none the less a war. It is not a war against an ideology. It is a war against the people who practice that ideology.

No it's not - you can't even name or describe the ideology. Never have, never will.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #13 of 34
A Rumsfeld quote comes to mind for some reason. "The terrorists are shooting at our soldiers and our soldiers are killing the terrorists".
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
post #14 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
A Rumsfeld quote comes to mind for some reason. "The terrorists are shooting at our soldiers and our soldiers are killing the terrorists".

Exactly. Thank you - you prove my point and more.

Next....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #15 of 34
Perfect Republican technique. Let's not argue about the validity of the US government detaining individuals FOREVER without evidence or a trial. No. Let's argue about whether war can be waged against a technique.

Great subterfuge. Fascinating to see applied. The whole thread was derailed in just a few post. Wow.

These guys are good. Don't like a aspect of their government, or secretly agree with its totalitarianism underpinnings, so they move the goal posts so we can argue about "moving goalsposts".

Brilliant.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #16 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Perfect Republican technique. Let's not argue about the validity of the US government detaining individuals FOREVER without evidence or a trial. No. Let's argue about whether war can be waged against a technique.

Great subterfuge. Fascinating to see applied. The whole thread was derailed in just a few post. Wow.

These guys are good. Don't like a aspect of their government, or secretly agree with its totalitarianism underpinnings, so they move the goal posts so we can argue about "moving goalsposts".

Brilliant.

But it's also their achilles heel - the 'tragic flaw' - and why they can't possibly win.

Because they need to derail and move the goalposts - it is the intellectual equivalent of running away from a fight. They KNOW themselves that they are wrong - think about it - otherwise they would just say 'yeah, so what - we're gonna imprison people forever and much worse and here is why....'

But they cannot even do that - not even with the most sheeplike and barinwashed public who will swallow anything and ask for more, they cannot sell it....

That's why they'll lose. Spectacularly. It only remains to be seen how. One thing's for sure, it will be a massive self-inflicted wound, not from anywhere outside.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #17 of 34
We wouldn't have a prisoner problem if we didn't take any.



"We're all living in Amerika... Amerika ist wunderbar"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #18 of 34
Course this is coming from my (libertarian) mindset, but...

War and crime are equal. They are about using force, not negotiation or reason, to take or destroy what is not yours. It's not relevant if shots are actually fired, or if men are actually hurt, or whose men they are. Threat of force is also force.

If you initiate use of force on others, they and every other rational person have a right to harm you as long as you choose to continue on the path of using force.

I think if there were a single valid reason for death penalty, it would be starting a war. But lifetime imprisonment is better in that case as well.
post #19 of 34
Thread Starter 
Edit: This needs airbrushing out of history
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #20 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
Course this is coming from my (libertarian) mindset, but...

War and crime are equal. They are about using force, not negotiation or reason, to take or destroy what is not yours. It's not relevant if shots are actually fired, or if men are actually hurt, or whose men they are. Threat of force is also force.

If you initiate use of force on others, they and every other rational person have a right to harm you as long as you choose to continue on the path of using force.

I think if there were a single valid reason for death penalty, it would be starting a war. But lifetime imprisonment is better in that case as well.

Ok - if the guys who are going to be on the receiving ends of lifetime stretches are a threat then present the evidence and judge them.

You can even give them life - I won't complain.

If there is no evidence however, then we have a problem. Show what evidence there is or the reason for the incarceration.

Again: one cannot sink to the levels of the 'evil' you are allegedly fighting.

If they are enemy combatants then subject them to the Geneva Convention and try them in a military court. It is the suspension of the legal process that is the problem here not the nature of the suspect or the length of the sentence.

The problem we have with this administration is that it wants to change the rules. But the rules don't need changing, they've evolved over centuries of democratic practice and they work. They don't work in an authoritarian way but then that is the problem. For Bush.

Bush and co lie and say that the rules do need changing, but they do not consult or discuss or explain why. To them, they need changing because THEY want them to change. So they lie because they cannot justify. They lie about everything else when it suits them so that should be no surprise but the one thing they never do is engage in debate as to why the rules need changing. They just do it anyway.

In a way, they are treating the Democratic heritage of the US in the same way they treat the terrorist suspects: you don't need an explanation, you don't need a debate or a choice - we will decide for you because of 'the new situation'.

Well, the 'new situation' is dictatorship. Simple as that.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #21 of 34
"Well, the 'new situation' is dictatorship. Simple as that."

A dictator was was elected in a free election. Right.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Ok - if the guys who are going to be on the receiving ends of lifetime stretches are a threat then present the evidence and judge them.

Sorry Segovius, didn't intend to give you the wrong idea. I wasn't talking specifically about the people in Guantanamo, though some of them probably should also rot in there for the rest of their lives. I was mainly thinking about the people who started the Iraq war.

Maybe some of them will retire, make some leisure travel to Europe without diplomatic immunity, be arrested and tried at Haag. I wouldn't count on that happening though..
post #23 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
"Well, the 'new situation' is dictatorship. Simple as that."

A dictator was was elected in a free election. Right.

Mussolini was elected in a free election.

Hitler was elected in a free election.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Mussolini was elected in a free election.

Hitler was elected in a free election.

Bingo. And they used "fear" to change the game, change the rules, and ultimately change their governing classification.

But let's ignore history and talk about Guantanamo, or 3000 dead, anything but the reality at hand...
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #25 of 34
We are defending ourselves against people who have demonstrated that they want to kill us. Sorry if our methods disturb you.

Out
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
post #26 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
We are defending ourselves against people who have demonstrated that they want to kill us. Sorry if our methods disturb you.

Out

They haven't demonstrated it so that people other than you are satisfied.

That's why we need trials. Demonstrate it in court and you can shout it from the rooftops or rush to the toilet with the stenographer's transcript for all I care.

I oth, there is no proof - then get some or let it go. But don't just start lying and changing the goalsposts - people will call you on it and you will have to leave in a strop.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
We are defending ourselves against people who have demonstrated that they want to kill us. Sorry if our methods disturb you.

Out

Why don't you get the fuck out of my country, you treasonous little piece of shit?

Why do you hate the rule of law? Why do you hate due process? Why do you hate justice? Why do you hate America?

Hey, domestic murderers have demonstrated that they "want to kill us". So by your lights, we just round up suspects and execute them. Anybody who mentions the constitution obviously isn't serious about "fighting crime". A suspect is guilty. Just like that.

Right? Asshole? You want to turn my country into a fucking military dictatorship, and you have the fucking balls to come on smug?

GET YOUR STUPID LITTLE ASS TO IRAQ AND GET YOUR FACE SHOT OFF OR SHUT THE FUCK UP. Simple as that. Lie about your age. Real patriots do it all the time. Go there and fight your fight. Die. Hurry up.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #28 of 34
And as long as I am in a gracious mood, let me add this:

How is it that the whole "the federal government is the devil" crowd can't imagine trusting big gummint with say, health care, but figure when it comes to identifying the guilty we just roll over and let the chips fall where they may?

What the fuck is wrong with you people? We're talking about life sentences without sufficient evidence to convict from the people who you think of as being hopelessly corrupt and incompetent and you think it's fine?

Because one incarcerated "arab" is as good as the next? Because you simply lack the moral imagination to give a shit about anybody who doesn't look and live and act like you? Because you really have no better sense of justice "they hurt us, we hurt them, and it doesn't much matter which them"?

I truly mean it, why are you in my country? You don't believe in her values. Your belligerence and smug swaggering can't cover that up.

What "patriot" says "with liberty and justice for all, unless the federal government thinks you might be a bad guy"? What "champion of freedom" says "I believe in the process of law unless I'm really pissed off and then I reserve the right to pretty much do what I want"?

And it's not even pragmatic-- shit like this obviously and clearly leads to more hatred of the US. When daddy gets taken away by the marines, never to be seen again, because of a mistake (and don't a one of you fuckers dare to claim that that kind of mistake never happens--we've already admitted that most of the "terrorists" that we've rounded up so far were Afghan peasants and Iraqi people who were "in the wrong place at the wrong time") don't you think that kid is going to hate the US beyond all knowing for the rest of his life? Wouldn't you?

Wouldn't you? Don't you get that part? Or is the shit in your head you use for brains so sour and ugly that you simply can't get past "kill them before they kill us" and really truly not care who gets killed, as long as they are "arabs"?

I love my country. You love power. You make me sick to my stomach.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #29 of 34
Originally posted by Common Man
Quote:
It is a war against the people who practice that ideology.

Which is why we will lose. U see Common Man a war on the ideology or the people who practice it will always fail because no matter how many people u kill the ideology will always live on. You can crush the body, you can crush the mind, but you can never crush the spirit. That is what we need to win from not just the people in Iraq but the entire Middle East:the spirit. If we can win that we have won the war on terror but so long as we crush and destroy in an attempt to force our way of life on somebody else that ideology will fester and spread and will continued to be taught and implanted in future generations
The Supreme Being
The Supreme Being
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Kill 3000 people? Get out of jail free because the US Army didn't get a warrant to search your cave!

Jerk off in front of your computer looking at pictures of atrocities? Savor the flavor of Bush's cum?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #31 of 34
I doubt these people are being held because anyone "hates Arabs" or "hates Muslims". Perhaps they are being held because we have reason not to trust them? Perhaps we have reason to believe that they know something? After 911, few people or countries are going to get the benefit of the doubt from the US.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I doubt these people are being held because anyone "hates Arabs" or "hates Muslims". Perhaps they are being held because we have reason not to trust them? Perhaps we have reason to believe that they know something? After 911, few people or countries are going to get the benefit of the doubt from the US.

Doubt, schmout, get your ass to a recruiting office. There's a sucking chest wound with your name on it. It'll be fun!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Jerk off in front of your computer looking at pictures of atrocities? Savor the flavor of Bush's cum?

Huh? Anyway documented here for the moderators.
post #34 of 34
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