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Whats Coming??....Predictions.

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
Hey all,

I've been reading all of the postings lately with great interest and have decided to start a prediction thread. Of course many are floating around and many will follow, but I have my own ideas of things to come, so here goes:

PowerMac Update:

Single 2.3 Ghz G5 970MP (dual core) $1799
Dual 2.3 Ghz 970MP $2299
Dual 2.5 Ghz 970MP $2799
Dual 3.0 Ghz 970MP $3299

Upgraded systems (i.e. X800 graphics, 2 or 3 400 GB drives, Dual Layer perhaps, although I think Apple will wait until it is more commonplace, maybe more RAM, etc)

Tiger & Tiger Server

iMac Update:

2.0 Ghz G5 17 inch iMac $1299
2.3 Ghz G5 17 inch iMac $1499
2.3 Ghz G5 20 inch iMac $1899

I know people are asking for a 23 inch iMac, but I don't think you'll see one. I think the following is much more likely:

Displays Update:

23 inch Cinema HD $1299
30 inch Cinema HD $2199
44 inch Cinema HD $3499

I don't expect new Powerbooks till MWSF 2006.
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post #2 of 72
I hope either the PowerBooks or the iBooks are updated in some way soon. I want to get one, but I don't want them to be updated the day after mine arrives at my house.

For iBooks, I'd like to see an upgrade to 1.5 GHz, 512 mb RAM and possibly a better video card. (I'm not to knowledgeable about video cards.) I'd also like the PowerBook to be a G5 with 1 GB of ram if possible. That's what I would like.
post #3 of 72
I would be happy with all of that and would order:

Dual 2.5 Ghz 970MP $2799
23 inch Cinema HD $1299

or

30 inch Cinema HD $2199

Mmm... mmm... good.

BZ
post #4 of 72
We need to go wide here.

Powermac 2.5Ghz Dual 970MP(yes Quad Core)
1GB of RAM 400GB hd(3 SATA Bays now)
Dual Gigabit TOE ports.
Dual Layer Superdrive
FW 400/800
PCI Express/PCI-X hybrid
Nvidia 6200 PCI Express card
Bluetooth 2.0 Standard
$2999

Powermac 2.5Ghz 970MP
1000MB RAM 250GB hd
Gigabit FW 400/800
PCI Express
6200 PCI Express card
$2499

Powermac 2.3Ghz 970MP
512MB Ram 160GB hd
Gigabit FW 400/800
PCI Express
6200 PCI Express
$1999

Powermac 2Ghz
512MB Ram 160GB hd
Gigabit FW 400/800
PCI Express
6200 PCI Express
$1499
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post #5 of 72
Murchison's post is more realistic, because initially, these chips are going to be in short supply. Thus, the PM line will go to mostly single dual-core chips. The Nvidia 6200 does appear likely, with upgrades available to 6600 and 6800, and possibly ATI X800 boards.

He does show the low-end model staying with a single 970. If that's the case, chances are it'll be the old AGP motherboard as well.
post #6 of 72
i still think you're getting your hopes up too high with the large hard drives and powerful graphics cards. it seems most likely that they'd base with the 9600XT or MAYBE the 9800XT, and for the highest model and BTO, have a higher end X800 or GeForce 6?00 series (i haven't ever heard of the 6200 for mac, so i'm skeptical there, but i don't do as much reading up on it as i should. i think they'll mostly stick with the 6800 though). i also doubt they'll switch to pci express any time soon, since that would be such a huge change, but i dunno. lastly, i'd be surprised if they had a gig of RAM in any of their machines. keep in mind, the G5's are still currently shipping with only 256, and they only are just now upping it to 512. anyways, heres my predictions for the next PM G5, though i'm not even gonna try and guess prices, only configurations

2.3 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9600XT
80 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 2.3 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9600XT
100 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 2.5 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9800XT
160 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 3.0 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
ATI X800 (maybe?)
200 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive
Airport Extreme and Bluetooth


thats my thoughts, who knows what they'll actually do
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2GB RAM
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post #7 of 72
Thread Starter 
Yeah, after looking at murchison's predictions I would agree it is more likely. I've been seeing a lot of people going way out there with predictions and I've noticed a trend in that, before every new release people go way overboard and Apple releases modest updates but nothing over the top.

I have a PowerMac G5 1.6 Ghz with 1.5 GB Ram and the 5200 Ultra vid card, along with the old 20 inch Cinema and I have been very happy with performance overall.

I do a lot of rendering in my work so I'd like to upgrade to a dual config, but I'm waiting for the update.

I would love to see Apple release something that would just bury the hardware on the PC side, that would be cool, but like most people here I use a Mac for OSX and stability and am generally happy with what is available.

I think something is definitely going to happen before September with the display line. HD on all models and hopefully a new high-end model, and the elimination of the 20 inch, effectively bringing prices down to compete with Dell and the like.
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post #8 of 72
OK, wish list:

Powermac G5 quad processor 3ghz each. 300 gig HD, 16x dual layer superdrive with LightScribe, 1gig RAM, Video card for 30"+ sizes, displays dual support.

40" plus HD cinema displays.

PowerBook G5 3ghz single processor. 20" inch display with HD resolution, 100gb HD, expandable to second HD, 1gig RAM expandable to 3gig, 16X dual layer superdrive with LightScribe.

Ipod 80gig, with camera connector and AV output to connect with tv to play movies.

Apple DVR solution with HD capabilities and software like Iphoto for videos.

Oh... wishful thinking
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post #9 of 72
All the Powermacs in the Apple Store appear as shipping same business day... at least just before updated Powerbooks arrived, we could see 7-11 days shipping times in all models. Maybe nothing is coming yet
post #10 of 72
Just my opinion and I may be wrong but there will be no dual core machines.. why ?

Marketing.. there is no way of making a distinction in peoples minds between a "dual 2.5" and a "dual, dual core 2.5"

Apple will have to think if a name for the dual core chips and market them that way. So unless the G5 is to go bye bye there will not be a dual core release


exhibit_13 has it right I think with this.

2.3 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9600XT
80 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 2.3 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9600XT
100 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 2.5 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9800XT
160 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 3.0 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
ATI X800 (maybe?)
200 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive
Airport Extreme and Bluetooth



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post #11 of 72
There is only one thing i really want,
well no, two things :P

lower prices!!
an audio app like adobe audition
post #12 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by exhibit_13


2.3 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9600XT
80 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 2.3 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9600XT
100 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 2.5 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
Radeon 9800XT
160 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive

Dual 3.0 GHz G5
512 mb RAM
ATI X800 (maybe?)
200 GB SATA HD
Dual Layer Superdrive
Airport Extreme and Bluetooth


thats my thoughts, who knows what they'll actually do

My worst nightmares are of this exact lineup. What this tells me is that Apple isn't pushing to get up with AMD, and intel, and they are not that concerned with the overall appearance of their computers.

But actually this is exactly what I expect from Apple if they are content with what they offer, and how they get there with their product lines. If this lineup comes out (I imagine it will) it still appears they are careless, and could care less about suiting the needs and concerns of their core customers.

These machines would be considered outdated the day they were released.

-----------------------------
gugy, can you afford your list? What is it your ready to buy, is that it?
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post #13 of 72
Um... how would dual 3.0 be outdated with an x800... what do you mean not keeping up with AMD and Intel... apple doesn't make the chips... IBM does...so what you mean is:

"What this tells me is that IBM isn't pushing to get up with AMD, and intel, and they are not that concerned with the overall appearance of their cpu's."

Either way, you don't know the specs of the MP proc... it could have 1mb l2 on-chip cache for each proc... and since it's MP it most likely will be on-die memory controller. Along with the faster FSB... how is that not keeping up? You can't say anything about clock speed, since AMD's 2005 road map doesn't even mention 3ghz. Let alone dual opteron 3ghz.

So how about you elaborate? Is it SLI you're worried about? That I can understand. But as far as processor speed, that looks pretty damn futuristic to me. You have to remember, we have the OS that allows MP in the first place... Windows isn't a very threaded based OS, Unix / Linux is. So even when MP comes out for pc (before longhorn) it won't have the buffs that the 970MP with OS X will have.

 

 

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post #14 of 72
I do agree with you onlooker, how Apple could possibly let AMD and Intel market dual core processors first??,
For several years Apple have been able to face the power from the wintel world and the mgherz gap thanks to their unique dual machines.
If they let the others come up with the same advantage it would be vey difficult for them.
The only way to keep up is to offer quad machine when the others have dual machines!!
post #15 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
-----------------------------
gugy, can you afford your list? What is it your ready to buy, is that it?

I wish I could!

I would love to get the top of the line Powermac and a big display. I am just waiting for the next upgrade. The powerbook could be really cool though.
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post #16 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by johnrp
Just my opinion and I may be wrong but there will be no dual core machines.. why ?

Marketing.. there is no way of making a distinction in peoples minds between a "dual 2.5" and a "dual, dual core 2.5"

Apple will have to think if a name for the dual core chips and market them that way. So unless the G5 is to go bye bye there will not be a dual core release

That is poor logic. Just because you can't market something doesn't mean it can't be released. If it has a much higher performance than the previous chip then it will be released. The consumer not knowing what dual core means isn't going to stop amd and intel from releasing there's. The consumer must learn, just liked they learned what ram, hard drive space, and clock speed are. Now they will have to know that 2x2=4 cpus.

Besides that, most of the people that purchase powermacs know what it means. Powermac users are not joe schmoe usually... they have a profession and their powermac helps them do it on a daily basis. MOST people don't go out to spend 3000 dollars on a mac to play games.

 

 

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post #17 of 72
I try to make guesses based on what is coming up.

At this time we have NAB, which means new pro apps that require Tiger, meaning that Tiger is close.

Then there is the education buying season coming up, which will focus on the eMac (yep, it'll still be there) and iBooks.

I look to WWDC for new PMs as I think that Apple and IBM will want as much time as possible to get things lined up. I have a feeling that Apple will want to see some faster (hopefully dual core) chips on hand before announcing a bump in the PM. My thinking is that the dual cores have a better chance than bumping up the current G5 chip.

I also think that PMs will get a bump before we see the over longed for G5 PB. Maybe Paris . . .

I also think that the iMac might get a bump to 2.0 before too long, but that it will not be part of a Keynote - just added to the Apple Store and let the boards and media spread the word.

I can relax a bit though as 2004 was the year of the Mac (and iPod) in terms of personal spending. When tiger comes out I'll have to get the family pack.
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post #18 of 72
this year is about software, not hardware. ask anyone who owns a decent G5 PowerMac and ask them if it's slow. It's not. So everyone whining about not having Quad processors just needs to shell out a few bucks. Sometimes I wish rumor sites didn't exist so people wouldn't get so caught up on technologies that probably won't be around for a while, or at least one Mac's. The point is, you don't need quad processors.
post #19 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
this year is about software, not hardware. ask anyone who owns a decent G5 PowerMac and ask them if it's slow. It's not. So everyone whining about not having Quad processors just needs to shell out a few bucks. Sometimes I wish rumor sites didn't exist so people wouldn't get so caught up on technologies that probably won't be around for a while, or at least one Mac's. The point is, you don't need quad processors.

For certain values of "you."

There are, admittedly, people who don't need quad processors. They need as many as they can get their grubby little mitts on.

But you need to think long term here. The era of big single cores is ending. You'll see duals and quads increasingly for the simple reason that it makes more sense to go that way than to design and build some gigantic beast of a core on a 65nm process. The reasons are fairly arcane, but very real. Lots of relatively small, simple cores are the future.

So you'll see dual cores, and dual dual cores, and quad cores, and so on and so forth, more and more as the ability of any one core to scale up diminishes. This will happen over a period of years, of course, but the dual core CPUs coming down the pipeline are the beginning of a trend.
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post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Um... how would dual 3.0 be outdated with an x800... what do you mean not keeping up with AMD and Intel... apple doesn't make the chips... IBM does...so what you mean is:

"What this tells me is that IBM isn't pushing to get up with AMD, and intel, and they are not that concerned with the overall appearance of their cpu's."

Either way, you don't know the specs of the MP proc... it could have 1mb l2 on-chip cache for each proc... and since it's MP it most likely will be on-die memory controller. Along with the faster FSB... how is that not keeping up? You can't say anything about clock speed, since AMD's 2005 road map doesn't even mention 3ghz. Let alone dual opteron 3ghz.

So how about you elaborate? Is it SLI you're worried about? That I can understand. But as far as processor speed, that looks pretty damn futuristic to me. You have to remember, we have the OS that allows MP in the first place... Windows isn't a very threaded based OS, Unix / Linux is. So even when MP comes out for pc (before longhorn) it won't have the buffs that the 970MP with OS X will have.

What I mean is they should have insisted on dual core from IBM last year at WWDC for this year, and they were willing to wait for it, thusly pushing IBM to move the ball forward as fast as possible with the MP processors, and let IBM know they need it to be that way. By the looks of it I think MP processors are a possibility. The list I quoted didn't mention the MP processors.

And then by outdated I mean that AGP is going to be gone weather anyone likes it or not. Apple would have a better appearance with legacy machines if they install it now like everyone else. Waiting is just making used Macs look outdated. So when the next version comes out these will be using old technology, and if they use PCI-E they still have great upgradability options for future graphics cards.
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post #21 of 72
They'd better come up along the lines up a dual 2.0 Ghz multicore, with a health dose of ram and a good video card. This G4/400 is getting old....
post #22 of 72
But you and I both know they are coming out PCI-Express on the next mobo... so is it worth bringing up?

If apple announces their dual core powermac at WWDC (the closer we get to it without any updates the more probable it becomes), they will be the first consumer machine to be running dual core that I know of. That's still beating intel and amd to the punch once again.

 

 

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post #23 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
But you and I both know they are coming out PCI-Express on the next mobo... so is it worth bringing up?

If apple announces their dual core powermac at WWDC (the closer we get to it without any updates the more probable it becomes), they will be the first consumer machine to be running dual core that I know of. That's still beating intel and amd to the punch once again.

Actually AMD beat them to the punch last time with 64-bit, and there is a pretty good chance they will roll out dual core before Apple does also. That's the whispering on the vine anyway.
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post #24 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
Sometimes I wish rumor sites didn't exist so people...

What would you do with all that free time, Mr. 2,600 posts in a year and a half?
post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by wilco
What would you do with all that free time, Mr. 2,600 posts in a year and a half?

i dont post a whole lot in threads about ridiculous power mac specs or hopes.
post #26 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
i dont post a whole lot in threads about ridiculous power mac specs or hopes.

so then don't post in this thread!
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post #27 of 72
... how about good old reliable 2.5 GHz dual G5 (single core) and a new PCI-e-savvy system controller as well as a PS3-PCI-e-card with new core audio/video libraries? Faster rendering *and* better gaming with one update - the only problem would be you would have to open the case every time to change the DVD in the PS3 card.

Just kidding
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post #28 of 72
iHome please.
post #29 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by johnrp
Just my opinion and I may be wrong but there will be no dual core machines.. why ?

Marketing.. there is no way of making a distinction in peoples minds between a "dual 2.5" and a "dual, dual core 2.5"

Apple will have to think if a name for the dual core chips and market them that way. So unless the G5 is to go bye bye there will not be a dual core release

Easy fix. Introducing the G5 Extreme. Marketing is the least of Apple's problems.

I tell you though, if they introduce a quad-core 2.5Ghz+ machine with PCI-Express, I'll order one immediately.
post #30 of 72
If dual core powermacs are released will the min speed of them be 2.5ghz ? and will it be dual processor ?

Otherwise they really are opening a barrel of monkeys (see my above marketing post)

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post #31 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
The point is, you don't need quad processors.

it isn't about needs, it's about wishes.
you doesn't need a beautiful wife with a great ass either
but you'd wish you had one right now.

quads would be nice though...
next time i need a replacement for my iMacG5, 3 years from now.
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post #32 of 72
Here's an uneducated guess:

Powermacs between now and September: PPC 970mp powered.
2.2 GHz mono dual-core G5
2.6 GHz twin dual-core G5
3.0 GHz twin dual-core G5
Unlikely, but dreamed about:
3.4 GHz twin dual-core G4 Powermac X workstation.

iMacs. PPC 970fx
1.8 GHz 17"
2.0 GHz 20"
2.2 GHz 23" HD

iBooks. 7448 G4.
1.6 GHz 12", 14"
1.8 Ghz 14"
If Freescale can't figure out how to fab their newer G4, then a 7447 iBook will appear:
1.5 GHz 12", 14"
1.67 GHz 14"

Powerbooks between now and November: PPC 970gx.
1.6 GHz 12"
1.8 GHz 15"
2.0 GHz 17"
Unlikely, but possibly: 2.0 GHz 20" HD
post #33 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
The point is, you don't need quad processors.

Sometimes It's not all about you.
And sometimes it's not about what we need, it's what Apple needs to keep their lineup respectable. If Apple waits another year after WWDC before using dual core processors they will loose so much credibility with future buyers. AMD, and Intel will have them shortly (AMD first) and that will take it's toll on Apple if they don't get theirs out first. AMD's dual core processors are going to be able to work in current motherboards. When Apple goes dual core your going to be spending a lot more money to transition to dual core than the PC side is because your buying an entire computer to do it. Apple is already criticized for their lineup all the time. If they have their dual core boards out first, some of that wont be noticeable because of the fact that it's available on the Mac at the point that everyone else is releasing theirs.
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post #34 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by johnrp
Just my opinion and I may be wrong but there will be no dual core machines.. why ?

Marketing.. there is no way of making a distinction in peoples minds between a "dual 2.5" and a "dual, dual core 2.5"

Apple will have to think if a name for the dual core chips and market them that way. So unless the G5 is to go bye bye there will not be a dual core release


Introducing the Powermac G5 Hydra. Because many heads are better than one.


Don't forget that Apple is the company that pushed the line of BS about the G4 being faster than the Pentium IV, even though this was only true for a handful of hand-optimized Photoshop filters. I'm sure they will have no problem marketing a beast of a CPU that mops the floor with anything else out there. At least it will if IBM ever produces them.

Apple seems to be cursed when it comes to CPU suppliers. IBM is better than Moto, but not by much. They still made a liar out of Steve Jobs when they promised 3 GHz in a year and instead gave Apple 2.5 GHz with a vague promise of dual-core G5s.

I will not be surprised if we have to wait until 2006 for the 970mp. What is IBM's incentive to rush it along? Apple doesn't sell enough Powermacs/Xserves to make the 970 a big profit-maker for IBM, so of course they are dragging their feet. They probably have something like 3 engineers working on the 970mp project, along with a few techs and a janitor.
post #35 of 72
If they could come out with the MP before intel and AMD (to the consumer) than that would definitely give IBM some more respect and perhaps help apple sell more machines.

Problem is this: I have friends at intel (I live next to the campus)... Intel is already building and selling dual core procs to private businesses for servers and software development. They have got over the yield problems they were having and are producing chips at 65nm no problems. This could spell disaster for apple / IBM and amd.

 

 

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post #36 of 72
I'm fairly confident that the next year will be all about processor
efficiency more than pure speed.

If heat issues still prevent higher clock speeds, then dual cores may be the only way to effectively improve benchmark results.

I still haven't figured out how far Apple might go with the 970 series to improve a Rev C PowerMac G5 before moving on to a Power 5 based Rev A G6
post #37 of 72
On further reflection (after many beers), I'm updating my predictions:

WWDC: New seminar - The Dual-Core CPU Myth - why a single core CPU is better than a dual core CPU by Greg Joswiack (sp?).
post #38 of 72
Honestly,

The first move is that they move all PowerMacs onto a unified motherboard.

This will save millions in manufacturing costs, not to mention replacement parts for defects.

I'd say the baseline will be a single 970MP.

The iMac will manage the G5 line up through to 2.5Ghz with a future version dealing with heat constraints that don't require a liquid cooled solution.

What Apple does need to do with Tiger is to make sure ATI and nVidia's chipset lines are covered, instead of hitting on just the basics.

FW800 is obvious. Gigabit Ethernet is obvious at the baseline. Dual Ethernet on higher-end.

Superdrives on all systems. Dual layer on the highend.

PCI-Express on all systems(unified motherboard)

Built-in new version of Airport Extreme

Bluetooth 2.0

Lowend PowerMac to house 1Gig RAM expandable to 8Gig.

Highend PowerMac to house 2Gig RAM expandable to 16Gig.

Optional 4 Port Fibre Channel

Updated XServers with 4 Port Fibre Channel built-in. not to mention standard 2Gig RAM.

Pricing won't be as much of an issue if Apple actually can deliver first solutions that target Desktop Publishing and Professional Engineering CAD systems.

Apple needs to help port Pro/Engineer and/or CATIA to OS X.

If they do so companies like Boeing and Airbus will be ready to switch.

iMac lineup will be where they can be more conservative.

PowerBook G5 system I don't expect to see until late August as a back-to-school push.
post #39 of 72
I've often wondered if Apple might deliberately leak dis-info
to throw off the competition.

We still don't know how Apple will make use of the available technology
or how much they are keeping under wraps with IBM

I still think we will see major improvements in the next revision,
but Apple will reserve a bit of hold back until they know more of what the competiton has to offer.



Welcome to Core Wars
post #40 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
this year is about software, not hardware. ask anyone who owns a decent G5 PowerMac and ask them if it's slow. It's not. So everyone whining about not having Quad processors just needs to shell out a few bucks. Sometimes I wish rumor sites didn't exist so people wouldn't get so caught up on technologies that probably won't be around for a while, or at least one Mac's. The point is, you don't need quad processors.

What some of us really need is throughput. For eleven years we have used Mac based Avids for editing at the post house where I work. Today, the owner wrote a check to Avid to buy 3 new PC based Avids. Yes that is right Windows XP Avids. The reason? The PC systems can handle 11 streams of standard def video right now. No Mac can do that yet and no one knows when/if Avid will deliver the promised hardware. Overall performance is superior at every level. No dropped frames with the PC's.

Of course the whole story has to include the fact that Avid has slowed down their Mac software development since Apple released Final Cut. We have FInal Cut HD too, but it also needs better hardware. And it is also still is bug and glitch prone sometimes.

Come on Apple make a Mac we can be proud of again! Without rigged speed tests please. We'll never get our Mac Avids back, but maybe FCPHD will scream on the new hardware.
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