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Timeframe for next PowerMac? - Page 3

post #81 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
... but all the Pro level PC's are available with Dual Duals so ...

I was just supplying the reasons as requested.

There are some (not "all") pro level PCs with dual-duals, but they don't use Intel processors. Woodcrests in late 2006 will be $1k+ each chips, so I wouldn't expect them in PMs.

You guys can all be optimistic, go ahead. I hope, with you, that I'm proved wrong.
post #82 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
I was just supplying the reasons as requested.

There are some (not "all") pro level PCs with dual-duals, but they don't use Intel processors. Woodcrests in late 2006 will be $1k+ each chips, so I wouldn't expect them in PMs.

You guys can all be optimistic, go ahead. I hope, with you, that I'm proved wrong.

I can't think of many pro level PC's other than BOXX, and Alienware, and they both have Dual Duals.
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post #83 of 295
Im assuming that the release of the next PM's will be the dual cores mentioned by IBM that have been finalized and ready to be used. So with that note do you all think those will be the final PPC for the PM's that apple will use (and with what Jobs mentioned about more PPC product coming down the pipeline) ?
post #84 of 295
Yeesh. The recent 'non-update' to the PowerMac seems years away. Was it really only 5 months ago?

Seems longer.

I'm looking for dual core 2.3 or 2.5 at the low end.

(It should be 2.5! Because the 2.5 got mysteriously dropped from this update. Because I think Apple knew the dual core would have a 2.5 ceiling. Ergo? Next Update offers dual dual core 2.5, middle dual core 2.5, dual core 2.3 for low end. A marketing slight of hand...)



Hmmm...

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post #85 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Yeesh. The recent 'non-update' to the PowerMac seems years away. Was it really only 5 months ago?

Seems longer.

I'm looking for dual core 2.3 or 2.5 at the low end.

(It should be 2.5! Because the 2.5 got mysteriously dropped from this update. Because I think Apple knew the dual core would have a 2.5 ceiling. Ergo? Next Update offers dual dual core 2.5, middle dual core 2.5, dual core 2.3 for low end. A marketing slight of hand...)



Hmmm...

Lemon Bon Bon

Yea Id be happy with a ual core 2.3 or 2.5, as long as the 2.5 dosnt have a liquid cooling system in it, which im not really keen on having inside a computer...liquid and electronics dont mesh to well sometimes ya know?
post #86 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by hypoluxa
Im assuming that the release of the next PM's will be the dual cores mentioned by IBM that have been finalized and ready to be used. So with that note do you all think those will be the final PPC for the PM's that apple will use (and with what Jobs mentioned about more PPC product coming down the pipeline) ?

In assuming your correct that would mean that Apple is putting resources into a new motherboard design for the PPC just for one revision, and I highly doubt that as a possibility being their PPC designs are supposed to last the for like a minimum of 4 revisions. I really don't see the PPC getting anything new from Apple.
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post #87 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
In assuming your correct that would mean that Apple is putting resources into a new motherboard design for the PPC just for one revision, and I highly doubt that as a possibility being their PPC designs are supposed to last the for like a minimum of 4 revisions. I really don't see the PPC getting anything new from Apple.

So do you think that the G5's will not see the light of day with dual core chips? I mean if not, we'll all have to wait until 2007 before we see the macintels in the power towers according to Jobs. Or, do you suppose IBM will deleiver single core chips that might reach 3 ghz in the meantime? I doubt that...
post #88 of 295
Jobs never said the PowerMac (or Mac tower) would be the last mac to get intel processors. He said all macs would have intel processors by the end of 2007. If intel produces dual core processors that are not for mobile computers before they make their mobile line why do you think Apple would wait? THey will release in the order that intel has processors ready.
I just can't imagine intel making all of their laptop, and mid size processors before they make their Xeon replacments. I think we'll see new PowerMacs get intel processors sooner than "some" of the other Macs.
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post #89 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Jobs never said the PowerMac (or Mac tower) would be the last mac to get intel processors. He said all macs would have intel processors by the end of 2007.

He said also that the transition will be bottom-up, from weak G4 machines to the more strong G5 ones. Besides, what 64-bit capable desktop CPU Intel has or will have before mid-2006? I don't see anytime soon a Xeon or Itanium based Power Mac, even more an iMac.
post #90 of 295
Quote:
intel is introducing 64-bit support into its products from the top down, with the mobile processors not getting 64-bit support until late 2006/early 2007.

That is from the same article, and actually I didn't see a steve jobs quote in that article anywhere. If Apple is not introducing 64-bit, or even dual core technology into the lineup from the get go I really don't see the need for an upgrade being that everyone will know they are coming with the next revision. Apple already made that mistake once before with announcing the PowerMac would be at 3GHz in one year.

When people know newer better technology jumps are coming one upgrade away many don't bother to upgrade until it happens. Apple knows this. Or maybe they forgot. If they did they are probably in for a rude awakening.
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post #91 of 295
Where exactly is a quote from Apple saying it would be bottom-up? I've never seen it, and it just seems to be an assumption that grew a life of its own.

That being said, also, it's not a rule that motherboards have to survive X number of product updates. They're transitioning platforms. The rules changed, if there ever was a rule in the first place. If you think short lifespans are bad, wait until they switch to Intel where motherboards change practically every other weekend to stay on the cutting edge.

Since we're not looking at a complete transition for another 2 years, current products don't have to sit stagnant. That's why I don't think a low-powered G5 PowerBook is entirely out of the question yet. A theoretical 2 year life would be plenty long enough for the platform.
post #92 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by nowayout11
Where exactly is a quote from Apple saying it would be bottom-up?

First, Arstechnica has not the reputation of making up things. Second, I remember either having hear it during the keynote, or some Apple executive said it after that (Phil Shiller perhaps, I don't remember). Now that I watch again the keynote, this statement is gone .
post #93 of 295
Quote:
Now that I watch again the keynote, this statement is gone

It was never there to begin with. The mention of this bottom up thing I think originated from a cnet article. To my knowledge no apple executive has said anything about the plan for the transition besides done before the end of 2007.
post #94 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by jherrling
It was never there to begin with. The mention of this bottom up thing I think originated from a cnet article. To my knowledge no apple executive has said anything about the plan for the transition besides done before the end of 2007.

I remember very clearly there was some statement like that, real and not from some rumor. But since I cannot prove anything, let's just say that I am wrong and continue the discussion on this basis.
post #95 of 295
Now the news is that Steve Jobs will not make the keynote presentation at Paris after all, though he will attend. I hope this doesn't mean possible new/upgraded hardware plans are delayed.

I'm still looking to buy a dual-(dual?) G5 and final cut studio... preferably soon.

C'mon great products in the pipeline,

Brian
post #96 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by bjewett

C'mon great products in the pipeline,

Don't be fooled by his words. If the past can teach us something, "great products" means for him the regular updates Apple makes in the existing lines. The cases where it means more are rather the exception than the rule.
post #97 of 295
actually, i believe that now is the right time to design a new motherboard for the powermac line. a lot of pro's, including myself, are considering waiting for intel. but if apple came out with a compelling (re: fast) machine right now based on the g5 then i'd probably buy it and wait it out for rev. 2 of the macintels. a dual dual 2.5 would convince me to buy because i believe it could hold me over long enough to make the transition easier in the future.
post #98 of 295
I am in the same boat.
But now that the Paris keynote is cancelled, I am not sure when Powermac will be update. I hope not another year of waiting.
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post #99 of 295
I'm becoming concerned that Powermacs will linger in their current state for awhile. Waiting 2 years should just about kill off the line.

Even if "great new PPC products" are not in the coming Powermac lineup, it seems apple could release an updated version with PCI express, 8x dual-layer burner, faster bus etc etc - perhaps at a lower price point. This at least could "tide me over" until the Macintel rev. 2.

Those wanting Powermacs may be in for a long wait. It's that or windows...

I'd like to hold out hope for Paris, but that seems highly unlikely now ... unless something like the above was released to (minimal) fanfare.
post #100 of 295
I'll jump in and agree with Onlooker: PM's get Intels first.

Reasons: (1) History: the PM has always gotten the new processors first. (2) Ease of design: Just throw a standard motherboard in a box (hopefully smaller than the G5 case used for the dev kits). (3) Developers: they need the new platform first, and the dev kit is not a good solution. (4) Quickness: Intel's current chips are power hogs, and their dual-core chips are kludges, but in a tower case, so what?

Releasing PMs with Intels first is a quick win for Apple. I don't see why they wouldn't go for it.
post #101 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
I'll jump in and agree with Onlooker: PM's get Intels first.

This was just announced.

Shortly: Presler Extreme Q1'06 "Numbered the 955, the processor will be dual core, support four threaded computing, have a total of 4MB of cache, support VT and clock at 3.46GHz with a 1066MHz bus."

Will it be enough?
post #102 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
I'll jump in and agree with Onlooker: PM's get Intels first.

Reasons: (1) History: the PM has always gotten the new processors first. (2) Ease of design: Just throw a standard motherboard in a box (hopefully smaller than the G5 case used for the dev kits). (3) Developers: they need the new platform first, and the dev kit is not a good solution. (4) Quickness: Intel's current chips are power hogs, and their dual-core chips are kludges, but in a tower case, so what?

Releasing PMs with Intels first is a quick win for Apple. I don't see why they wouldn't go for it.

What are you guys talking about? Steve Jobs said that the consumer Macs would be going Intel first. The Powermac and Xserve lineup will go Intel late 2006 early 2007. Why are you guys conjecturing over stuff that Apple's CEO has already made clear?
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post #103 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
What are you guys talking about? Steve Jobs said that the consumer Macs would be going Intel first. The Powermac and Xserve lineup will go Intel late 2006 early 2007. Why are you guys conjecturing over stuff that Apple's CEO has already made clear?

Yeah but it's hard to believe anything Jobs has to say.
post #104 of 295
I might be wrong, but I don't think Steve specified anything about which would be first. If I remember correctly he just said it would happen over time and that the first would be within a year. We filled in the gaps.
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post #105 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by murk
We filled in the gaps.

I think I'd feel better with a last revision of a PPC PM over a shaky first version of an Macintel PM. That said, I'm all for speed ... and not waiting 1.5 years.
post #106 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by bjewett
I think I'd feel better with a last revision of a PPC PM over a shaky first version of an Macintel PM. That said, I'm all for speed ... and not waiting 1.5 years.

But wouldn't the last revision be 'shaky' also (assuming it'll be the dual-cores PPCs we've been hearing about?)

I keep hearing things like "don't ever get version 1.0, they're buggy"...but lets face it...every revision is a version 1.0. No matter how you cut it, there are so many changes between revisions that there's no way you're guaranteed version 1.1 or 2.0 will be better than 1.0.

That said...I'm probably getting the very first Intel Macs simply because they'll be as buggy (or stable) as the second wave of Intel Macs.
post #107 of 295
Well, ok - if it is a minor bump - like the Powermac line saw earlier this year - then it is "safe." In that sense, here's hoping the next PM update is enough of a revision to count... but I tend to feel more comfortable (perhaps not logically) in a dual-core and/or speed-bumped PPC vs a new Intel (with all the changes that go along with it). But I'll take what I can get, and hope it is this fall.
post #108 of 295
Thread Starter 
I'm wondering if the a new PM was part of the lineup for the Keynote @ Paris? Also, if you look at shipping times do you think that they would only release a top tier PM with dual core? Replacing just the 2.7. I'm sure that the production of the new chips is slow with IBM being unmotivated with the switch coming..
post #109 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by namachtag
I'm sure that the production of the new chips is slow with IBM being unmotivated with the switch coming..

Motivation is one thing, contract obligations is another; let's see what wins in this case \ .
post #110 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
What are you guys talking about? Steve Jobs said that the consumer Macs would be going Intel first. The Powermac and Xserve lineup will go Intel late 2006 early 2007. Why are you guys conjecturing over stuff that Apple's CEO has already made clear?

Whatever he may have, or had not said then, seems somewhat inapplicable now. Between then and now intel has made some leaps that they presumably were not expecting to resolve so soon.
There have been articles popping up about all the processors they are working on coming out quicker than intel had predicted. The Xeon Replacement was the first I had heard about, and that is what I figure should be in the PowerMac. I don't remember if it was a 64 BIT processor though, and that May be what Apple is waiting for. A 64-bit Dual Core Power House for the Pro Machine. When I think PowerMac on intel - I think 64-Bit Dual core XEON replacement. If I were Apple I wouldn't take anything less.
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post #111 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
The Xeon Replacement was the first I had heard about, and that is what I figure should be in the PowerMac. I don't remember if it was a 64 BIT processor though, and that May be what Apple is waiting for.

Unless I need new eyeglasses, the Xeon processor has a 64-bit version right now.

Quote:

A 64-bit Dual Core Power House for the Pro Machine. When I think PowerMac on intel - I think 64-Bit Dual core XEON replacement. If I were Apple I wouldn't take anything less.

Intel says that this (dual core Xeon) is coming in the next couple of months or so. Or do you mean something else?
post #112 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by murk
I might be wrong, but I don't think Steve specified anything about which would be first. If I remember correctly he just said it would happen over time and that the first would be within a year. We filled in the gaps.

I agree. I went back and watched the WWDC keynote (at least I skipped through it anyway):
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/
(if anyone wants to spend an hour watching it "note-for-note", let me know if I missed something.)

At no time does Steve mention anything about which models (Pro/Consumer) will be transitioned first, just that there will be Macs ("...plan to have them in the marketplace") already running on Intel by WWDC 06 and that all Macs will be running on Intel by WWDC 07 (transition will be "officially" completed by end of 07). Not sure how the whole notion of the Pro/Consumer rollout thing got started. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a PowerBook on Intel at MWSF 06. That'd be a great way to kick off the year of Mactel.
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post #113 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Unless I need new eyeglasses, the Xeon processor has a 64-bit version right now.


Intel says that this (dual core Xeon) is coming in the next couple of months or so. Or do you mean something else?

I suppose that could be a possibility then. I don't remember specifics, but if it's a 64-bit, dual core XEON, w/hyper-threading I think that may be what I read at the time. But I thought there was going to be a XEON replacement coming that wasn't actually going to be called the XEON. I may have just assumed, or imagined that though.

They have a lot going on, and that particular XEON may not be the one I was talking about.
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post #114 of 295
Shipping times for the PM 2.7GHz has dropped from 7-10 days to 3-5 days...
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post #115 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by jwdawso
Shipping times for the PM 2.7GHz has dropped from 7-10 days to 3-5 days...

yeah right, about 10 days ago, but thank you anyways ; so what's that supposed to mean?
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post #116 of 295
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris_here
yeah right, about 10 days ago, but thank you anyways ; so what's that supposed to mean?

No Power Mac updates in the horizon?
post #117 of 295
Ah, so much anticipation, so little solid information to work with. Perhaps we should start our own rumor.

"Apple Computer would not comment on reports that a dual dual-core Intel-based PowerMac with standard 2 GB ram, 8x dual-layer superdrive and PCI express would be announced at the beginning of the Paris Expo, September 20th."

Not a shred of information to back it up, but that hasn't stopped anyone else.
post #118 of 295
Thread Starter 
that is a good idea... start a buzz about a new PM product line... realistic guess of course....and if Apple told us to stop with their lawyers we would know something was coming... force their hand!

i'm sick of waiting... i expected something better than the bumps last time... i don't want to buy old technology... if nothing shows up soon i'll settle on a dual 2.0 until the rev. B of intel macs come out. No since spending the extra for the top machine when it will be dropped. I had them cancel a order for a 2.7 at work in anticipation of 970MP.... what ever comes out soon hopefully i'll get one at home and one at work.

One more thing:

Is everyone with info afraid to post? Afraid of being attacked by Apple? there has to be someone out there with insight to the future...
post #119 of 295
Here's my .02:

I think apple showed it's hand right off the bat by throwing together the Intel Mac for developers.

I think that given the apparent speed and ease of retrofitting the PM with an Intel MB tells us right away which machine gets the first Intel chips.

Plenty of room for cooling for the CPU and whatever huge video card you want.

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/p...p=0506intelmac

Now I'm speculating, but I think the Paris keynote thing means there is a big surprise in the works. Does anyone know if any bigwigs from Intel will be there?

These events are becoming more and more theatrical, so I wouldn't assume anything from the Paris keynote announcement. Apple loves to create a buzz.

It will have to be a killer machine to keep it in the usual price range.
post #120 of 295
Hi

I'm with namachtag.

I'm getting really fed up with Apple these days. (I've been using Macs proffesionally for around 15 years.) I've just finished the upgrade to OSX - took a while (Lot's of stuff to buy, fonts to sort and don't even go there with Quark!)

So now I'm desperate to replace the PB i've been using as a stop gap machine with a Power Mac. However, with the promise of great PPC products to come I've held off buying for a few months. A Power Mac with lots of Ram is a big purchase for me - particularly after all the money I've spent of software upgrades.

After the Apple keynote was cancelled I called the two biggest Mac dealers in the UK to check availabilty and price. (As I'll order straight after the Paris show - I'm pretty much giving up on a dual core etc).

The only thing they've got now is the base dual 2 GHZ.
No stocks at all of the 2.3 or 2.7. No idea of when they'll be getting stocks in either. (Guess what - iMacs and iPods weren't a problem!)

What is going on?
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