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Briefly: Apple UK blunder hints at Mac Pro update - Page 3

post #81 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macvault View Post

DAMN STRAIGHT! I just wish Mac OS X would run on Dell, etc. But oh well. That's how pissed I am about Apple's hardware DICTATORSHIP to it's users. I've had it! I'm done!

Why should Apple let Dell have the hardware sale?
Apple is a hardware company who, accidently, provides a pretty good OS in the mix for free.
It has nothing to do with hardware dictatorship, it's their bussines selling hardware.

If they sell more hardware by making excellent software than they are probably the only company who understands how things should work.
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post #82 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by gar View Post

Why should Apple let Dell have the hardware sale?
Apple is a hardware company who, accidently, provides a pretty good OS in the mix for free.
It has nothing to do with hardware dictatorship, it's their bussines selling hardware.

If they sell more hardware by making excellent software than they are probably the only company who understands how things should work.

Let me clarify myself... the only reason I wish OS X would run on Dell is simply because Dell gives me more options at a much better price - at least when it comes to the tower-type hardware. I would rather say, "I wish Apple offered more configuration options at a Dell-level price", but I know that aint happening.
post #83 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macvault View Post

Let me clarify myself... the only reason I wish OS X would run on Dell is simply because Dell gives me more options at a much better price - at least when it comes to the tower-type hardware. I would rather say, "I wish Apple offered more configuration options at a Dell-level price", but I know that aint happening.

Only Dell and possibly HP do that though. Everyone else is either loosing money, happy with ultra slim margins or just not bothering with that market and concentrating on the ones that do make money. You can't really blame Apple for that.

Plus, IMHO it'd cheapen the brand and have knock on effects elsewhere in their business.
post #84 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macvault View Post

I'm not in any way a Windows/MS fanboy. I've been a Mac lover for the last 20 years.
Experience with Windows?... Here's an excerpt from my resume:

TECHNICAL SKILLS

LAN / WAN Administration
Understanding of concepts, technologies, and best practices essential to LAN / WAN design
Configuration of Cisco hardware such as routers, firewalls, switches and bridges
Data Center and Disaster Recovery Center design, research, engineering and construction
Installation and administration of Exchange email servers, Active Directory domain controllers, and SQL
Administration of Microsoft Windows Server 2003/2000/XP, Mac OS X, Linux, HPUX, and FreeBSD
Provisioning of wide and local area networks utilizing Frame Relay, T1, VPN, OC, MPLS and wireless
Maintenance and execution of backup schedules and media rotation for servers and databases
Installation and repair of CAT5e/6, fiber optic, coaxial cable, and wireless network infrastructure
Management of network services such as TCP/IP, HTTP, HTTPS, FTP, SMTP, DNS and DHCP

Computer Hardware
Evaluation, acquisition, and upgrades of Dell and HP rack-mount server hardware
Troubleshooting, diagnostics, and repair of faulty workstation and server hardware
Testing and installation of printers, scanners, modems, wired / wireless network adapters

Computer Software
Evaluation and testing of software in test environments before deploying to live systems
Remote installation and management of operating systems, software, device drivers, etc.
License management and detailed record keeping of software and license compliance
Software security and virus management and removal using enterprise-level virus mitigation tools

Help Desk & End User Support
Implementation and maintenance of help desk system to keep track of work order status and resolution
Clear, effective, and timely communication with management, co-workers, customers, and vendors
Unobtrusive troubleshooting of software, hardware, and network errors both remotely and on-site

EXPERIENCE

Network Administrator, (Financial Industry / Southern Oregon), July 2004 June 2006
Designed, configured, implemented and administered Local and Wide Area Networks for credit union
Supported end users and maintained all workstations, printers, scanners, servers and core systems
Worked with team to develop and manage Information Security Management System and related policies
Rolled out network and communications infrastructure for new credit union branch offices.
Designed, managed and maintained credit union data center infrastructure and systems.
Received training and experience on Harland Financial Solutions FSP, Ultradata and Ultrafis
Performed nightly data processing tasks, backup procedures, etc.

Network Technician, (Telecom Industry / Southern Oregon), December 1999 January 2002
Implemented and administered corporate LAN, workstations, printers, servers, cabling and phone systems
Researched, designed, built and managed ISP offering dialup and wireless ISP services
Supported and resolved technical and accounting issues for customers, staff and departments

Your gonna need that experience!

If I were to move from the Mac platform I would look at linux, but that's me.
post #85 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

...Plus, IMHO it'd cheapen the brand and have knock on effects elsewhere in their business.

Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.
post #86 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macvault View Post

Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.

Somehow I don't think throwing a precious princess tantrum is going to do it.
post #87 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Your gonna need that experience!

If I were to move from the Mac platform I would look at linux, but that's me.

Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?

If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.

Vinea
post #88 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macvault View Post

Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.

What a waste of money on software you have to purchase (almost) every time you switch platforms.
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post #89 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?

If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.

Vinea

I know what windows is like. I'd probably give linux a look. I haven't ever used it so perhaps I wouldn't like that experience.

Right now my pc laptop at work ( I don't use it hardly at all) is running like crap. Real slow and stuttering. Ran my spy detection software and have 50! infections. The license ran out on my software so while I can run diagnostics I can't get rid if them until I renew. When I've some free time I'll sit down and do it but I'm not looking forward to it.
post #90 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?

If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.

It's another frying pan instead of a new fire?

The OP seems to enjoy fiddling with computer hardware to a point most of us that value things working would find distracting. There's nothing quite like building you're own box-o-crap and running Linux on it for distracting a nerd from getting work done.

You can even suggest it's productive work since you're actually achieving something instead of just fiddling with your computer playing whack-a-mole with the updates that pop up in the system tray every time I turn away from my Windows box. Some people think this is work too but I think it's just there to stop people playing Solitaire or Minesweeper.
post #91 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Have you much experience with Windows? Having switched back to Macs I can tell you that you're in for a serious *relearning* experience. I've pcs at work and it's a painful experience to use them. Good luck and I won't think less of you if you decide to come back to the Mac community.

I never really quit using Windows, I use it on my workbench, Mac at my desk. One thing that I hate about the Mac OS is even when all controls are supposedly set to be accessible to keyboards by tabbing though them, too often there are a few controls that really aren't. I think it's irritating and inefficient to have to touch a mouse to activate a control when a tab + enter would do the job.
post #92 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

You could have saved yourself £75-100 just there and had a spare drive left over to stick in a £10 external drive case for backup.

Huh? I don't trust an external drive enclosure that's twice that price maybe not three times that price, I've had too many bad experiences with cheap enclosures.
post #93 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Your gonna need that experience!

If I were to move from the Mac platform I would look at linux, but that's me.

Linux has even fewer apps. It's nearly a perfect server but not so good as a desktop.
post #94 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by gar View Post

What a waste of money on software you have to purchase (almost) every time you switch platforms.

There is a lot of low cost or free software to do nearly anything, that's usually good enough for most people without having to spend a lot of money. I do buy software, but slowly and usually not the very expensive apps.
post #95 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Just so Mordak doesn't get confused/offended, Melgross means that you can stick new quad-core chips in your MacPro, fairly "easy" replacement along the lines of: http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/09/....core.mac.pro/

Uh, yeah.
post #96 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Just so Mordak doesn't get confused/offended, Melgross means that you can stick new quad-core chips in your MacPro, fairly "easy" replacement along the lines of: http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/09/....core.mac.pro/

It is replaceable, but one concern is doing it then having problems getting warranty support if something goes wrong later. The drives, memory and cards are considered user replaceable, but not so much with the processors.
post #97 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Huh? I don't trust an external drive enclosure that's twice that price maybe not three times that price, I've had too many bad experiences with cheap enclosures.

Bought one from dabs.com. All aluminium, 2.5" drive USB 2.0. Been perfect. Cost £9.

They appear to be £7.99 now inc VAT.

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx...avigationKey=0
post #98 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macvault View Post

Forget the 8 core MacPro. I just want a MacPro for under $1000 - even if it's only a dual core.

Buy a used one. You might find it for a bit more than $1,000.
post #99 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It is replaceable, but one concern is doing it then having problems getting warranty support if something goes wrong later. The drives, memory and cards are considered user replaceable, but not so much with the processors.

Nobody would do that right away. After having the machine for a year, it might prove to be a good idea. The chips will be less expensive then as well.

Besides this isn't surgery. Everything can be placed back just as it was, as long as you kept your original chips.
post #100 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Bought one from dabs.com. All aluminium, 2.5" drive USB 2.0. Been perfect. Cost £9.

They appear to be £7.99 now inc VAT.

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx...avigationKey=0

I suppose that's an exception to the rule.
post #101 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

You could be waiting a long time. There's no indication Apple are going to dip into the low margin end of the desktop market and with desktop sales in the consumer sector declining, why would they?

Apple are already making computers for this market in the form of the iMac. I want an iMac but just in a different form i.e minus the display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Ah, the tyranny of choice. Dells, Dells everywhere but not an OS that doesn't stink.

That's exactly the point we're making. Apple know they have a good OS but they don't put in the effort on the hardware side that they could. This is why it's a bad system for the consumer. Once Apple tie you into using their system, you don't have a choice but to use their hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

XPS 210 Headless? Pity they don't let you pick any card other than the X1300. To do that you've got to buy one of their crappy monitors.

It's still a better card than the Mini has by a long way and even though you maybe can't replace the card at the purchase stage, you could quite easily do it yourself. The fact is that you cannot do anything with the Mini in that respect at all. You either buy it or don't. That's not enough choice for a lot of people and so they can only choose not to buy it. I have to buy it because I use Apple software and it's the only machine I'm willing to buy. Like I say, I would love an iMac spec but not in the shape of the iMac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

You also get a tiny small form factor and almost silent operation which you don't from Dell. And you bought the ram and HD upgrade from Apple? Are you nuts? You could have saved yourself £75-100 just there and had a spare drive left over to stick in a £10 external drive case for backup.

That's what I did - same with an external firewire burner because superdrives are rip-offs too but I'm comparing BTO options like for like. Dell are better is all I'm saying. It's true the Mini has the small form factor and the quiet operation but I'd sacrifice a bit of size to get a more flexible machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

You won't get a 17" screen as good as the iMac's screen for less than £150-170 so I'd beg to differ. Many of the cheap widescreen 17"s flooding the market are based on 6bit panels which sell to gamers based on over-inflated OMG!!! 2ms speed claims glossing over the fact they cant display colour accurately when their frag fest has finished.

I use CRT displays. LCDs don't cut it in color reproduction. They don't display black properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Of course, there's nothing stopping attaching ANOTHER screen. Apart from that, it's also a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo with an X1600 GPU.

True but I don't want a display built into my computer because when the display dies, my computer is worthless until I spend hundreds of pounds on a repair. With a separate display, the most I'll pay is the cost of a 3rd party display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

You do know you can swap out the Mac Mini's CPU for a Core 2 Duo CPU don't you? They're pin compatible. Just as you could on the Dell.

Where's the sense in paying more for a Mini to then spend more money buying a CPU to equal the spec of a cheaper Dell? Apple just need to stop concentrating on their phones and TV devices and give us Mac updates. All I hear from Apple is iphone this and Apple TV that or something to do with the ipod. I don't care about any of that. One thing you can say about other computer manufacturers is that they focus on the customer base that makes them the most money.

To me it's as if they think they can do whatever they like because they know we are going nowhere due the OS/hardware lock-in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Yes, Apple are overdue a refresh on the Mini but the only refresh that really makes sense is to wait for Intel's next GMA laptop chipset and that's only just trickling out. A Core 2 Duo upgrade alone makes very little sense.

Well, it brings the mini into alignment with all the other products and they should be offering the 1.83GHz chip at the low end like the Macbook given that it's the same price as the 1.66 GHz. As you say, it's as easy as pushing the new chip into place, Apple just want to make their Mini look less appealling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

The hard drive clunk is a function of the brand of laptop drive used. When it powers down it sometimes clunks. If you don't want it making that noise, set the drive to not ever sleep in the energy saver prefs. Or replace it with a different brand. Or just get used to it. It's not like Apple are the only ones with this brand of drive.

This isn't an energy thing because I keep all my drives on. It's a problem whereby the servo mechanism gets screwed up and makes the drive head bang repeatedly against the mechanical stop. It happens if the machine is left on for long periods of time and starts at random and doesn't stop until you sleep the machine and wake it up. That resets the control. It may be caused by temperature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I agree with you about getting inside a Mini though. It doesn't really have to be so difficult. Same thing with the iMac. I've a Rev A G5 and it's IMHO Apple's best ever design for accessibility in the non-PowerMac models.

Yes, I love the iMac for that but it could be just as easy to open a Mini if they had used a few screws on the bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

If they'd made it easier, perhaps the cries for mid towers would be less. The Mac Mini could have been a nice Kurobox style community dev platform.

I think that would be the case if they were slightly more expandable. One PCI-e slot for example.
post #102 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It's still a better card than the Mini has by a long way and even though you maybe can't replace the card at the purchase stage, you could quite easily do it yourself. The fact is that you cannot do anything with the Mini in that respect at all. You either buy it or don't.

No, we went over this on the other thread: the X1300 is about twice as good as the 950..

Also, the XPS comes with a half-height graphics slots. Good luck fitting anything decent in there.

The fact is, you cannot do anything with the Dell in that respect at all. You either buy it or you don't.
post #103 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

No, we went over this on the other thread: the X1300 is about twice as good as the 950..

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...ist.844.0.html

3 times as fast in benchmarks but it also has pixel shaders and hardware T&L therefore it's more than just speed. Nonetheless, you agree they are shipping a better card in a cheaper machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

Also, the XPS comes with a half-height graphics slots. Good luck fitting anything decent in there.

Ebay: 512MB Nvidia Geforce 7300 half-height PCI-e card = $72

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

The fact is, you cannot do anything with the Dell in that respect at all. You either buy it or you don't.

You can upgrade all the components easily, which you can't do with the Mini design.
You can upgrade the GPU, which you can't do at all in the Mini but the x1300 is a decent chip anyway.
Even if you couldn't do more to it, it's still cheaper with better service and better spec.
post #104 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...ist.844.0.html

3 times as fast in benchmarks but it also has pixel shaders and hardware T&L therefore it's more than just speed. Nonetheless, you agree they are shipping a better card in a cheaper machine.



Ebay: 512MB Nvidia Geforce 7300 half-height PCI-e card = $72



You can upgrade all the components easily, which you can't do with the Mini design.
You can upgrade the GPU, which you can't do at all in the Mini but the x1300 is a decent chip anyway.
Even if you couldn't do more to it, it's still cheaper with better service and better spec.


Yeah but you have to run Windows on it, that's the real problem!
(Or Linux, but that doesn't help everyone)
post #105 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...ist.844.0.html

3 times as fast in benchmarks but it also has pixel shaders and hardware T&L therefore it's more than just speed. Nonetheless, you agree they are shipping a better card in a cheaper machine.

The 950 also has pixel shaders. Vertices haven't been a bottleneck in over a decade, though, so lacking hardware T&L is a moot point.

Quote:
Ebay: 512MB Nvidia Geforce 7300 half-height PCI-e card = $72

I said "decent." No one in their right mind would "upgrade" a card to what's practically the same card in terms of performance.

Maybe the X2300 will still be half-height, but the low-end cards don't get updated as fast as the high end.

Quote:
You can upgrade all the components easily, which you can't do with the Mini design.

Unless some of those components you want to upgrade include the graphics card.

Quote:
You can upgrade the GPU, which you can't do at all in the Mini but the x1300 is a decent chip anyway.

No, it's a budget chip. Just like the integrated graphics. Both are more than 95% of the population uses, neither is nearly good enough for the remaining 5%.
Quote:
Even if you couldn't do more to it, it's still cheaper with better service and better spec.

Sort of. It's only ever two of the three, but you're right: Apple makes a profit on the mini.
post #106 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post

i thought you were more interested in Leopard

Yeah I am, and I'm guessing I'll see that in new hardware - now get off my case.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #107 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...ist.844.0.html

3 times as fast in benchmarks but it also has pixel shaders and hardware T&L therefore it's more than just speed. Nonetheless, you agree they are shipping a better card in a cheaper machine.



Ebay: 512MB Nvidia Geforce 7300 half-height PCI-e card = $72



You can upgrade all the components easily, which you can't do with the Mini design.
You can upgrade the GPU, which you can't do at all in the Mini but the x1300 is a decent chip anyway.
Even if you couldn't do more to it, it's still cheaper with better service and better spec.

Upgrades to it are limited. The video cards are very limited. Other than that one card, how many others at different spec points are there? No x86 machine allow much with cpu upgrades. It's not like older Mac's where you could remove the entire card, and replace it with a cpu ten times as fast. Those days are over for everyone.

The only thing you can't replace in the Mini of any importance, is the chipset, with the video. If you need that, then you're out. Otherwise, no.

Service? Ha! That's considered to be one of the major problems Dell has had in recent years. They went from excellent to poor. Dell himself cited service as one of the areas in which Dell has fallen down, and has promised that it would be one of his priorities. We'll see.
post #108 of 156
It's almost assured that when the 965 chip is out, Apple will go to that for the Mini. That will cure most of the graphics ills. for that class of machine it will be enough for the next year, until Intel improves it further, as they seem to be planning.

One will get most of the advantages of a low-medium gpu at a fraction of the price. For the market the Mini is in, that should do.
post #109 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's almost assured that when the 965 chip is out, Apple will go to that for the Mini. That will cure most of the graphics ills. for that class of machine it will be enough for the next year, until Intel improves it further, as they seem to be planning.

One will get most of the advantages of a low-medium gpu at a fraction of the price. For the market the Mini is in, that should do.

I agree. Many here pine for dedicated graphics in the mini and the Macbook. Both will keep IG, IMO, as IG gets better faster than dedicated graphics gets cheaper.
post #110 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?

If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.

Vinea

Actually OS X is the most widely used "nix" OS in the world. Does it still qualify as a niche?
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post #111 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat

The 950 also has pixel shaders.

I wish Splinter Cell could find them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat

Vertices haven't been a bottleneck in over a decade, though, so lacking hardware T&L is a moot point.

Not so much bottleneck, more just not having graphical glitches. Also, it is a factor in some games I've tested. Also in 3D software. The GMA can barely push 100,000 vertices whereas the X1600 can do in excess of 2 million. There's way too much middle ground there and the x1300 could easily cover it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

I said "decent." No one in their right mind would "upgrade" a card to what's practically the same card in terms of performance.

True, those are around the same. You do get faster ones though. There are X1600 low profile cards on newegg. I don't expect there to be high end cards in that form factor, I'm just saying that it's nice to have options - there are actually 65 low profile cards on newegg that could go in the machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post

No, it's a budget chip. Just like the integrated graphics. Both are more than 95% of the population uses, neither is nearly good enough for the remaining 5%.

It's a budget chip that can still play F.E.A.R, albeit on lower settings. I even have to turn them down a bit on the x1600.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

It's almost assured that when the 965 chip is out, Apple will go to that for the Mini. That will cure most of the graphics ills.

It will relieve it a bit but I'm sure people will still be asking why they don't give the X1600 card as an option. Plus it's still two months away. So that'll be a whole 8 months without a Mini update.
post #112 of 156
Marvin, I'm going to be an ass here and just say, anyone even remotely serious about PC gaming wouldn't be caught dead with an X1300. Let alone buy any machine in 2007 with it standard since it will go straight into the bin. 8)
post #113 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It will relieve it a bit but I'm sure people will still be asking why they don't give the X1600 card as an option. Plus it's still two months away. So that'll be a whole 8 months without a Mini update.

The 965 is a much better chip than the 950. With Intel showing interest in being a higher end graphics supplier, particularly with ATI being purchased by their rival, we will see continued improvement.

Does this mean that it will equal a mid level gpu at any time? Probably not. But, whatever comparative computer from the Windows world you are comparing the Mini to, the Mini is still a machine that Apple markets to a specific segment. It is also smaller. Some options are simply not practical. The 9xx series of chips offers graphics duty without adding other chips and supporting devices. This is what Apple wants.

Remember that Intel supplies about half of the worlds graphics chips with these chip-sets. Someone is using them!

I wouldn't be concerned that it will be 8 months before an update. The past is past, and we can do nothing about it. Just look to it hopefully being about 2 months away.
post #114 of 156
Well I wish they would hurry up and update the ƒu¢k3® already.
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post #115 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The 965 is a much better chip than the 950. With Intel showing interest in being a higher end graphics supplier, particularly with ATI being purchased by their rival, we will see continued improvement.

Does this mean that it will equal a mid level gpu at any time? Probably not. But, whatever comparative computer from the Windows world you are comparing the Mini to, the Mini is still a machine that Apple markets to a specific segment. It is also smaller. Some options are simply not practical. The 9xx series of chips offers graphics duty without adding other chips and supporting devices. This is what Apple wants.

Remember that Intel supplies about half of the worlds graphics chips with these chip-sets. Someone is using them!

I wouldn't be concerned that it will be 8 months before an update. The past is past, and we can do nothing about it. Just look to it hopefully being about 2 months away.

Bingo. There isn't a reasonable stock "HTPC Small Form Factor" PC Case let alone motherboard that one can purchase that comes anywhere remotely close to a Mac Mini. Or even MacMini+ExternalDrive+ElgatoEyeTV...
post #116 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Marvin, I'm going to be an ass here and just say, anyone even remotely serious about PC gaming wouldn't be caught dead with an X1300. Let alone buy any machine in 2007 with it standard since it will go straight into the bin. 8)

Sure but I'm not talking about serious gaming - even the X1600 can't really do serious gaming. I just mean that Apple's lowest end shouldn't have such a huge difference in performance compared to the next level up because that doesn't give people any choice. The X1300 will play Half-Life 2 at maximum settings with no AA. The GMA can't do that.

3dmark06
X1600 = 1800
X1400 = 900
X1300 = 560
GMA 950 = 170

So the jump from the Mac Mini to the iMac with X1600 gives you an order of magnitude jump in graphics performance. I would be content if they used x1400s because that's only a factor of 2. More than a factor of 10 is taking the piss.

According to this forum, the X3000 should definitely be a good solution:

http://forums.vr-zone.com/archive/in.../t-101174.html

But their benchmarks are coming out at around 750 for 3dmark05 for the X3000 and the x1300 gets 1000 so it's about double the GMA. When the drivers are better optimized and we get it in the mac machines, I'm sure it will perform a bit better. Behold the future spec of the Mini:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883227007

As always, already available in a PC.

You'll notice it has a TV tuner and two optical drives so that would equal a Mini + elgato + external HD as I'm sure you can replace one of the optical drives with a HD. And they are nice quiet mini-cd compatible tray loading drives.
post #117 of 156
I don't think X3000 is available for notebook chipsets yet.
post #118 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Buy a used one. You might find it for a bit more than $1,000.

That's a bit low. I wouldn't expect that a used Mac Pro to be less than $2k unless it's the 2GHz version. I'd be suspicious of it if it were too much less than that.
post #119 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's a bit low. I wouldn't expect that a used Mac Pro to be less than $2k unless it's the 2GHz version. I'd be suspicious of it if it were too much less than that.

Sure, it does depend on the model. The low end model might be going for not much more than that. The cheapest model is $1,995 new.

And think of the advantage. If you buy the low end used model for that, you can then get faster chips when they come down even more in price, and end up with a really good deal overall, as the machines are all the same inside.
post #120 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Sure, it does depend on the model. The low end model might be going for not much more than that. The cheapest model is $1,995 new.

And think of the advantage. If you buy the low end used model for that, you can then get faster chips when they come down even more in price, and end up with a really good deal overall, as the machines are all the same inside.

Perhaps then if one buys used Mac Pro, out of the 1st year warranty, then not as much "pain" and worry about seriously violating the warranty by swapping in the Clovertowns.

Is the AnandTech link the main one out there on the 8 core MacPro DIY ?? Other more recent hack/mods??
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6

While googling I found http://www.clovertown.com/ ...Heh.
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