or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac Software › More UI stuff - the "close" widget
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

More UI stuff - the "close" widget

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
After iCal came out, I complained endlessly about the function of the "close" widget, and about how Apple was breaking UI consistency again.

The first version of iCal would quit when you hit the "close" widget because it was a single-window app. I hated that. Again, it was a Windows convention that had migrated to Mac OS needlessly. On Windows, it's a necessary consequence of not having the an independent menubar at the top of the screen, so when you close the last window, there's nothing left of the app at all.

In Mac OS, the menubar is there. When you close the last window in a multi-window capable app, the app doesn't quit. The same behavior should apply to a single-window app. Even if I close the window of an app like iCal, do I necessarily want the app to quit? No. The "Quit" and "Close" menu items are separate and should stay separate.

I just noticed today that iCal has reverted back to my preferred behavior. Now I remember people argued against me on this topic too. Do you still favor having single-window apps close when you hit the red widget? The only apps that I might accept with this behavior are apps that have completely vacant menus, and even then I lean toward UI consistency rather than 'convenience.'

And I'm still sad to see apps like iSync retaining the new behavior.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #2 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>Again, it was a Windows convention that had migrated to Mac OS needlessly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It actually goes back to the very first versions of the Macintosh operating system.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #3 of 72
All apps should behave the correct way, quit when you tell it to. If only RealOne player and WMP did, not correctly quitting makes those two players suck even more.
post #4 of 72
since the address book stoped quitting on every window close - it became 10x more appreciated... and faster cause I don't have to relaunch the slow thing every time I want to make a call.... however, it has stopped working since then (crash on launch), but it was nice while it lasted.....
i freebase user interface
Reply
i freebase user interface
Reply
post #5 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

It actually goes back to the very first versions of the Macintosh operating system.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, a convention that WENT AWAY with the Multi-Finder. Don't go into this type of rhetoric. Do you really want to go back to the days of no Multi-Finder?
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #6 of 72
This is one area of the UI that I certainly think needs to be standard. Did you notice that Address Book now stays open, too. But iSync, iPhoto, and iMovie don't. This is very annoying.

I almost never actually quit a program because of the stability of OS X's memory, and it's faster to switch between open programs, rather than open - close - open - close etc...

As Eugene mentioned, there are notable exceptions from Apple. I think that because Apple has done this it has given rise to a bad trend among developers. I downloaded Checkbook 1.1.1 from VersionTracker and noticed that it has this annoying behavior, too.

Single-window apps can still be open, even without having a window open.
post #7 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>

Yes, a convention that WENT AWAY with the </strong><hr></blockquote>

Several control panels even in Mac OS 9.2.2 quit when closed.

Btw. you can just hide the app instead of closing the window - you just have to use the built-in features of the OS instead

[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #8 of 72
Apps should close when they are told [Apple-Q or App Menu&gt;Quit] not when the last window is closed. I hate WMP because of this. I keep hitting the close button to get something out of the way then move to open a new file URL and the app quits when i close the window. EXTREMELY annoying. I don't mind it so much when I use windows because it works in that environment, but not on the mac.
"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school." -- Albert Einstein
Reply
"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school." -- Albert Einstein
Reply
post #9 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Dogcow:
<strong>Apps should close when they are told [Apple-Q or App Menu&gt;Quit] not when the last window is closed. I hate WMP because of this. I keep hitting the close button to get something out of the way then move to open a new file URL and the app quits when i close the window. EXTREMELY annoying. I don't mind it so much when I use windows because it works in that environment, but not on the mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Microsoft designed it wrong by making it a single window app in the first place.

They should make it possible to have more than one media file open at a time.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #10 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

Several control panels even in Mac OS 9.2.2 quit when closed.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Control Panels that didn't have their own menubar 'quit' when you closed them. However, they didn't really quit since those control panels were INITs and are preloaded on start-up and only really quit when you shut-down.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #11 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>

Control Panels that didn't have their own menubar 'quit' when you closed them. However, they didn't really quit since those control panels were INITs and are preloaded on start-up and only really quit when you shut-down.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So what? To the user they are windows and should act like windows - just like you're saying that browser tabs are the same as regular tabs.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #12 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

So what? To the user they are windows and should act like windows - just like you're saying that browser tabs are the same as regular tabs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly, I said in my original post there are exceptions. I specifically mentioned apps that don't have any other presence than the window itself. Try again.

[quote]The only apps that I might accept with this behavior are apps that have completely vacant menus, and even then I lean toward UI consistency rather than 'convenience.'<hr></blockquote>

Since INITs aren't even apps, and don't even have their own menus, then of course the only solution is to have them disappear when the window is closed. ... Then again, INIT behavior was consistent since they still didn't quit after you closed the window in the first place.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #13 of 72
Ah, Eugene, something we can agree on.

It's inconsistent behavior, it's not how the Mac OS works, it should be punished.
post #14 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
<strong>Ah, Eugene, something we can agree on.

It's inconsistent behavior, it's not how the Mac OS works, it should be punished.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah, but what about declaring the Window menu a second class citizen?
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #15 of 72
Eugene, it's funny that you on one side argues against breaking guidelines (tabs) and on the other side argues for breaking guidelines (single window apps) - just because you don't like some of the guidelines.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #16 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>Eugene, it's funny that you on one side argues against breaking guidelines (tabs) and on the other side argues for breaking guidelines (single window apps) - just because you don't like some of the guidelines.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't be a retard. Where have a I broken guidelines? Not only is an INIT not an application, it's also non-existent in OS X. As for guidelines, every true application should have at the very least an "Application" menu with a "Quit" option...even full-screen games. You should be able to toggle the menu to be visible.

I have upheld the guidelines in every respect.

Quit arguing for argument's sake and read my replies before making stuff up.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #17 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>As for guidelines, every true application should have at the very least an "Application" menu with a "Quit" option...even full-screen games. You should be able to toggle the menu to be visible.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's recommended by Apple that single window applications quit when the window is closed - I'm not talking about INITs.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #18 of 72
It does make sense, insofar as having to open a window before you do anything else is completely alien on the Mac: there should be some onscreen indication that the app is active other than the Menu bar.

Admittedly, I tend to just hide everything I'm not using (the joys of having far too much RAM, and having dimmed icons in the Dock), so it's not something I encounter on a regular basis.
Whatever it is, it ain't rocket science
Reply
Whatever it is, it ain't rocket science
Reply
post #19 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

It's recommended by Apple that single window applications quit when the window is closed - I'm not talking about INITs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It was recommended by Apple, but if you look around, neither iCal nor Address Book behave this way anymore. Apple is falling back on the old, better way of doing things. Apple made a mistake, they are correcting that mistake.

Why do you think Apple changed its mind?

Quite clearly Apple makes mistakes. They've started to fix one mistake. I only hope they don't implement another.

[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #20 of 72
I understand Apple's logic that single-window apps -- the ones that basically need an open window to do anything (iTunes, iPhoto, etc.) could or maybe should quit when you close its window. However, the window should therefore have a "quit" widget that, while related, isn't confused with a close widget. If Apple doesn't want to do that, then they probably should not have apps quit when you close their last window.

[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
post #21 of 72
I agree with Eugene 100% on this. No app should quit when you close the last window. None.

Now, for something like iMovie that handles this improperly, we are forced to use cmd-h instead of closing a window we don't need open any more. This risks file loss in the event of a crash or hang of the app or the occasional crash or mysterious log-out of the system. Shame on Apple.
post #22 of 72
No apps should quit when the last window is closed because most don't. The rest shouldn't for the sake of consistency.

Just placing my vote.
Prosecutors will be violated
Reply
Prosecutors will be violated
Reply
post #23 of 72
I do remember going to computer labs in college and seeing people having trouble with out of memory errors, and then going to the application menu and seeing 15 apps and having to quit them to free up memory.

But with OS X I don't think there's any reason to quit an app, because virtual memory is handled better than it used to be.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that it's a Windows carry-over though. I think it's more likely that it's a holdover from the desk-accessory days, when apps without documents, even if they had their own menubar, would quit on close.
post #24 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>I understand Apple's logic that single-window apps -- the ones that basically need an open window to do anything (iTunes, iPhoto, etc.) could or maybe should quit when you close its window. However, the window should therefore have a "quit" widget that, while related, isn't confused with a close widget. If Apple doesn't want to do that, then they probably should not have apps quit when you close their last window.

[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

apple might make the case that an app like itunes CAN still have functionality, even when the last window is closed, by way of its dock icon (pause, play, next track, etc.)
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #25 of 72
Good point.
post #26 of 72
I agree that the close widget/quit action is not a good UI element, however Apple probably implemented this in certain Apps because of Windows. My suggestion would be that all apps conform to the quit menu/command-q, however make it so that when the lst window of an open app is closed, a sheet comes down which asks if you want to quit this app. This way, the user knows when an App is going to be quit, and UI integrity is preserved.
post #27 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>It's recommended by Apple that single window applications quit when the window is closed.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can have it two ways:
  • Either all apps quit on closing the last window or none do.
  • The dumbest of users should be able to see whether an app quits on closing the last window.
I suggest the following. Since Apple claims metallic windows are to resemble hardware, they should not be treated just as normal windows with different looks. So we cannot have a multidocument app with metallic windows. So if an app has metallic windows, it claims that it can have only one and it will quit after the window is closed.
Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
Reply
Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
Reply
post #28 of 72
Apps that have only one window (an "app-window") should quit when that window is closed. Apps that have multiple windows, ie creates new documents within the app should treat the windows as "document-windows" and not quit the app upon closing. This is due to usability and user-information.

If you just want to hide the app, then there's a command for that, you know. Use it like everyone else. I've grown accustomed to using the dock to quit apps which is stupid. App-windows should quit the app upon closing, cause in essential that's what you're doing.

Imagine your mom closing down outlook express, then doing something else, double-clicking OE again to check her mail, then calling me asking why she can't check her mail and then I have to explain to her how she never really closed down the app, and how to open a new "browser-window".

Although this is a bit improved in OS X, you can see which apps are still running in the Dock, and clicking f.e Mail in the Dock will reopen the app-win. But it's still a lot faster to just hide apps. As soon as you get used to alt-clicking it becomes second nature..

The "Hide" command. Learn it, use it!
"I've learned there's more to life than being really, really, really, really, really, really, ridiculously good-looking. :-x" - Zoolander
~:My scraps:~
Reply
"I've learned there's more to life than being really, really, really, really, really, really, ridiculously good-looking. :-x" - Zoolander
~:My scraps:~
Reply
post #29 of 72
Mac window-close behavior used to routinely aggrevate windows users. They'd double click on an application repeatedly, trying to get a document window to open up. They didn't seem to grasp the concept that it was already running and that they had to learn a second interaction technique for summoning a window.

With the dock, and the functionality built into the window server and NSDocument, this subtle but troublesome flaw has been resolved. CLicking on an app in the dock will spawn a new document or window if none are currently open. Simply beautiful... *sniff*
post #30 of 72
Most applications should also have this behavior:

If a running application has no open windows, open a window when somebody clicks on it's dock icon.

Most already do this anyway, but there are a few that do not.
Prosecutors will be violated
Reply
Prosecutors will be violated
Reply
post #31 of 72
I find it interesting that in the case of tabs, Eugene says that clicking on a small object near the top of the screen is horrible and instead you should use a key combo. But in this case, he says that clicking on a small object near the top of the screen is what you should do and the key combo (cmd-H) isn't good enough.

I still think single-window apps should stay open if you hit the close box. Look at iTunes, it stays open. Although it's less of an issue for, say, iPhoto (where you'll only have the one window open anyway) than on Windows Media Player (where it's likely that you'd want more than one window open).

Very small applications, like control panels in OS 9, and the calculator, should quit when closed. Because they're used for one quick adjustment or calculation and then they're over with. I'd hate to have to quit calculator when I'm done using it. Whereas, my browser stays open if I close the window because it's meant to be used for more than about a minute.
post #32 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
<strong>I find it interesting that in the case of tabs, Eugene says that clicking on a small object near the top of the screen is horrible and instead you should use a key combo. But in this case, he says that clicking on a small object near the top of the screen is what you should do and the key combo (cmd-H) isn't good enough.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What exactly does closing a window have to do with hiding an application?

Bottom line. The red widget should do one thing, and one thing only, close windows.

If you hide an app, the windows reappear when you switch back to the app. App switching is actually a whole other can of worms. I'm still not keen on the whole idea of having a new window appear when you switch to an app with no open windows. It happens in QuickTime, Mail, Safari, IE, etc. If I want a new window, I'll ask for it.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #33 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>
It happens in QuickTime, Mail, Safari, IE, etc. If I want a new window, I'll ask for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just outta curiosity, what would you be doing in Safari that doesn't require an open window?

You like the idea of having a hidden interface. Just face it, a majority of users don't. Including the millions of mom's in the world that can't grasp that an application is open if you can't see it. I agree with you on Quicktime though. I don't even have QT pro, so I can't even do anything with my "untitled movie"

I on the other hand HATE the fact that Mail, iTunes, iCal, Address book and MSN Messenger (growl) DON'T quit when I close them down. I have to first close them, see that they didn't quit and then go to the dock to quit them (which is the fastest way). After all, I'm closing the window cause I'm done using the app. If I'm done using the app, it should get out of my way.
"I've learned there's more to life than being really, really, really, really, really, really, ridiculously good-looking. :-x" - Zoolander
~:My scraps:~
Reply
"I've learned there's more to life than being really, really, really, really, really, really, ridiculously good-looking. :-x" - Zoolander
~:My scraps:~
Reply
post #34 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
<strong>After all, I'm closing the window cause I'm done using the app. If I'm done using the app, it should get out of my way.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I close the window cause I'm done with the window. I quit the app when I'm done with the app. *shrugs* Maybe it's just me. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Microsoft knows what's best for you, so keep quiet, open your wallet, and be a team player.
Reply
Microsoft knows what's best for you, so keep quiet, open your wallet, and be a team player.
Reply
post #35 of 72
Letting an application continue to run without an open window is beauty.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #36 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
<strong>

Just outta curiosity, what would you be doing in Safari that doesn't require an open window?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Look at the menu bar. You can empty the cache, change prefs, clear your history, review downloads, etc.

[quote]You like the idea of having a hidden interface. Just face it, a majority of users don't. Including the millions of mom's in the world that can't grasp that an application is open if you can't see it. I agree with you on Quicktime though. I don't even have QT pro, so I can't even do anything with my "untitled movie" <hr></blockquote>

Why do you agree with me on QuickTime Player and not other apps? Don't you care about consistent interface?

[quote]I on the other hand HATE the fact that Mail, iTunes, iCal, Address book and MSN Messenger (growl) DON'T quit when I close them down. I have to first close them, see that they didn't quit and then go to the dock to quit them (which is the fastest way). After all, I'm closing the window cause I'm done using the app. If I'm done using the app, it should get out of my way.<hr></blockquote>

What does the red widget mean to you? Define its function.
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #37 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by crawlingparanoia:
<strong>
I close the window cause I'm done with the window. I quit the app when I'm done with the app. *shrugs* Maybe it's just me. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't expect Photoshop to quit when I close all windows, I don't expect my browser to quit when I close all it's windows... But I do expect apps like iTunes, Address book to quit when I close it's window. Why? I'm DONE with it when I close it. There's two kind of apps, the kind you want to leave open and the kind that you only want it open when you are using it. I know, it's strange, but it's true.

Here's another strange phenomena. When I click on an open app's icon such as Photoshop, I don't expect it to open an "untitled window." Some apps do that and it drives me nuts. On the other hand, when I click on an app such as IE, I do expect a window be made if there isn't one already open. iTunes is a good example, when this app is running and I click on it's icon I expect to see it's window open up if it was closed, It's doesn't! That's why I would rather it quit when I close it's windows instead.

It's all very strange isn't? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: PooPooDoctor ]</p>
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/stormyjohn/art/art.html" target="_blank">Homepage </a>
Reply
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/stormyjohn/art/art.html" target="_blank">Homepage </a>
Reply
post #38 of 72
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by PooPooDoctor:
<strong>

I don't expect Photoshop to quit when I close all windows, I don't expect my browser to quit when I close all it's windows... But I do expect apps like iTunes, Address book to quit when I close it's window. Why? I'm DONE with it when I close it. There's two kind of apps, the kind you want to leave open and the kind that you only want it open when you are using it. I know, it's strange, but it's true.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You do realize iTunes continues to play without the controller window visible, do you? iTunes is not a single window app either. Try double-clicking on a playlist.

You do realize there are other controls for apps like Address Book outside the main window, do you?

Your second to last sentence above doesn't make sense. You're interchanging "app" and "window" as if they're synonymous. Think of the menubar as a transparent fullscreen window. It's what MDI tried to mimic. Closing the iTunes controller window is one thing. Liken quitting the app to closing the menubar. Think of the "Quit" Cmd-Q item as the equivalent of the menubar's red widget.

[quote]Here's another strange phenomena. When I click on an open app's icon such as Photoshop, I don't expect it to open an "untitled window." Some apps do that and it drives me nuts. On the other hand, when I click on an app such as IE, I do expect a window be made if there isn't one already open. iTunes is a good example, when this app is running and I click on it's icon I expect to see it's window open up if it was closed, It's doesn't! That's why I would rather it quit when I close it's windows instead.<hr></blockquote>

Again, why should switching to an app open a new window. Apps such as Mail open new Viewer windows. What if I want a Compose window instead? Switching back and forth between apps is a frequent affair. I will accept the tradition of a new window greeting you when an app is launched initially, but after that it becomes a nuisance. All in all, this is a minor gripe compared to the two others being discussed. This is one place where an option should exist. There should be a checkbox in the TextEdit Preferences that lets me stop "Untitled" windows from popping up. And unlike tabbed web browsing, no new widgets/interfaces are being defined by doing so.

[ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
I can change my sig again!
Reply
I can change my sig again!
Reply
post #39 of 72
Eugene is right.

I get pissed off when I close a window and the app quits. I mean, what if Safari did that? I don't always remember or have the time to check whether I have a page hidden away in the dock. If I close the last visible window, I expect the next minimized window to come up so I can deal with it. If there isn't one, I certainly don't intend to quit the app. If Safari did this I'd throw it right out the window.

iTunes should never do this. Neither should any other app. Some apps you want to keep open even after you've closed all windows so that when you open a document, the app responds immediately, without having to be launched again.

Proper Mac behavior (since MultiFinder) has always been to leave apps open when you close all Windows. This is Mac. We must be consistent. Anyone who'se used Mac knows how to close open apps that have no windows open. With the dock this has become even easier. Why should we have apps EVER quitting unless we specifically ask them to with the consistent method of command-q or choosing "quit" from the application menu or the dock?
post #40 of 72
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>You do realize iTunes continues to play without the controller window visible, do you? iTunes is not a single window app either. Try double-clicking on a playlist.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes I do know all the above. Believe me I do, specially the part about iTunes continuing to play even after closing the window, it annoys the heck out of me. Don't you think it's unnatural for an app to continue doing it's thing even after you have closed it's window? Talk about inconsistency! What happens when you close a movie clip from QuickTime? Does it continue playing to the end?

You seem to me stuck in some sort UI guidelines box. Nothing is and nothing will ever be standard across the boards, ever!! We have tools that do different tasks and require UIs that works best for what they do. Face it, some apps should quit when you close the windows because it's natural to do so, while others don't because it's natural that they don't. It has nothing to do whether it's a single window app or not, it has to do with what you use that app for. Some apps should open an untitled window when you click on it's icon and some shouldn't.

[quote]
<strong>Again, why should switching to an app open a new window. Apps such as Mail open new Viewer windows. What if I want a Compose window instead? Switching back and forth between apps is a frequent affair. I will accept the tradition of a new window greeting you when an app is launched initially, but after that it becomes a nuisance. All in all, this is a minor gripe compared to the two others being discussed. This is one place where an option should exist. There should be a checkbox in the TextEdit Preferences that lets me stop "Untitled" windows from popping up. And unlike tabbed web browsing, no new widgets/interfaces are being defined by doing so.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Again, it depends on the app. I find this statement strange, "I will accept the tradition of a new window greeting you when an app is launched initially, but after that it becomes a nuisance." Really? When you launch QuickTime why do you want an untitled window in your face? That's still an annoyance because what am I supposed to do with that window? I know the argument with this, newbies have problem with an app launching and doing nothing. This is the fault of the app's designer. When I launch Photoshop it does not give me an untitled window, and rightly so I might add, but I can tell the app is up and running. It's also an annoyance not having a window to work from when you switch to an app that should give you a window to work from if none was already open by said app. Example: A browser.

[ 02-26-2003: Message edited by: PooPooDoctor ]</p>
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/stormyjohn/art/art.html" target="_blank">Homepage </a>
Reply
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/stormyjohn/art/art.html" target="_blank">Homepage </a>
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac Software
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac Software › More UI stuff - the "close" widget