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Up next for Apple: the return of the Newton - Page 2

post #41 of 314
post #42 of 314
I remember a while ago reading someone's insanely extensive post about the future of the AppleTV and there was large mention of a sort of remote control-like device, where you could preview broadcast tv stations before sending them to the main television, etc. browse through your music library in the palm of your hand and then choose something to play from the appleTV. I realize this is stuff that could ideally be done with the iphone/touch, but maybe that's what apple is sorta going for. They love to integrate, and really... AppleTV needs something more. Bringing in broadcast tv and then giving added control over it could really push it a bit.


On a side now, has anyone else avoided mentioning the AppleTV in public simply so they don't have to explain over and over that it isn't an actual television, just a little box? I'm tired of it. Wish they had named it differently.
post #43 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post

There would be no point to an entirely different device when you can just increase the features available on the iPhone and touch. My guess is that this would be released as another piece of the iPhone lineup rather than as the much discussed Newton replacement.

I definitely see a market for a touch unit with a larger screen, so long as the application set is right. In fact, I see this being the next major platform for Apple. Desktops, Laptops, and (let's call it what it is, people) Touch Tablets.

Further down the road, laptops will replace desktops, tablets will replace most laptops, and those will all be replaced with wireless tablet/laptop terminals. Envision ANY episode of Star Trek (TNG or later) and they use all tablets and pseudo laptops, all connected to a main computer. Not that Star Trek should be the basis of our technological speculation or anything. I'm just saying... it makes the most sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

This is why the iPhone and iPod touch is limited and Apple doesn't want you to put your own 3rd party apps on it. They have a PDA they want to push, and if some developer is writing apps that will do everything that this PDA offers it will equal low PDA sells. Just my .02.

On the other hand, I really don't trust Apple to release *ALL* the applications I would want to use. If this unit comes locked out to 3rd party apps, it will be screwed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

However, lets go back in time, to the Knowledge Navigator, I believe that we will see if the original Apple concept of the knowledge navigator, they talked about this for along time but all the technologies were not there to make it happen.

EXCEPT SPEECH RECOGNITION!!!!!!!!!!

Will SOMEone work on that, please? It's hindering our technological advancement.

-Clive
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post #44 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Envision ANY episode of Star Trek (TNG or later) and they use all tablets and pseudo laptops, all connected to a main computer. Not that Star Trek should be the basis of our technological speculation or anything. I'm just saying... it makes the most sense...

When I can beam myself into work on time, cool.
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post #45 of 314
This seems a little off. What would you design in a PDA that you would not incorporation into an iPhone or even the iPod Touch. The only way I could see any success for a non-phone PDA is a very low price point otherwise I don't see it taking off. Yes, thin is nice, but it doesn't really help me if I'm also carrying around an iPod and an iPhone.
post #46 of 314
I think many are thinknig about this in the wrong context. It is the melding of the two mobile lines together, finally you get a phone with the functionality of a computer, and a computer small enough to be as mobile as a phone. I have been waiting for this for many moons. The iphone is just to small... the macbook just to big. I am in chicago, I commute by train everyday along with millions of other commuters across the country in urban areas who are quickly adopting the mobile platforms that quite frankly just don't cut it. FOLIEO??!!!, This would be a huge sucess in this market.

More than just emails and documents this would be worth it to stay up to date with the money markets alone. The iphone/touch screen is just to small to be useable in my opinion. Adding inkwell and the ability to do full blown notes, calendar and contacts... it would be priceless

Then the clincher, if apple markets this as I was hoping they were going to do with the ibrick I mean phone as a mobile computer with the capability of inserting a sim chip to make calls instead of a phone with the ability to surf the web/get emails... and does not tie it to a carrier. Instead sells it as a computer with a mobile osx meaning a true finder and ability to add your own applications and the rest. This thing would sell through the roof.

wifi/max
bt
flash memory
3g/gsm
touch screen
inkwell
gps
full mobil

I would buy in a second.
post #47 of 314
Who wants another device to carry around?????

Add the features to iPhone2 and call it a day!
post #48 of 314
So Ireland was right after all
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #49 of 314
WOW! Amazing. Make it a full Mac OS X computer on your hand and that is what we have been waiting for years for all students, lecturers and researchers at our University. With full Keynote and PowerPoint NATIVE file support. The ultimate handhelp presentation remote. We need thousands.
post #50 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post

And 3d party apps.

I'll bring the 3D jello shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Just add the missing applications to the iPhone and iPod Touch and you've got the best PDA out there going, which also happen to be the best iPod and the best phone. Then let 3rd party developers fill the voids left. Done. Rebirth of the Newton completed.

Seeing the success of App.Tap, I now fully realize the importance of allowing 3rd party dev't of the mobile OS. Why? Because there's no freaking way Apple will be able to develop every app people want/need, nor is the "via safari" method a viable solution.

Also, it's becoming more and more obvious that this touch OS is the Next Big Thing... And you can't have an OS without 3rd party dev't.

-Clive
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post #51 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

WOW! Amazing. Make it a full Mac OS X computer on your hand and that is what we have been waiting for years for all students, lecturers and researchers at our University. With full Keynote and PowerPoint NATIVE file support. The ultimate handhelp presentation remote. We need thousands.

Well, if it's real it won't be Mac OS X. It will be OS X Mobile.

And I don't doubt that iWork will be coming one day for OS X Mobile, but it's going to take time.

Why do you think your university could use thousands of these? Why not just use a laptop for a presentation, or to take notes?
post #52 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

Fascinating report, but I'm really not sure exactly who this product would be for.

PDAs are currently dying - they're being wiped out by smartphones.

Apple laptops are about to get even sleeker and thinner.

The main markets would seem to be vertical markets (doctors, business users for meetings, people taking notes or needing net access while walking/working) or as an e-reader where using a notebook is impossible or a nuisance (e.g. reading on the train). But that's not what Apple is interested in. They're interested in the mass market of mainstream consumers.

So, what's the mainstream use? Why do you need one of these in addition to a computer, iPod, and/or (smart)phone?

And how many people would be willing to pay (let's say) $599 for one? Or even $499?

I'm intrigued, mind you, but I'm unsure this would find a place in the mianstream market.

PDAs are dying because their operating systems suck.
PDAs are also typically hamstrung by small screens, weak CPUs, and terrible GUIs.

If Apple releases an API for this device and supports 3rd party development, it will be successful.
As far as the mainstream goes... WiFi + Safari + eMail = mainstream
post #53 of 314
it doesn't matter what you call this: PDA, iphone 2.0, whatever.

i envision it as a macbook with multitouch and iphone like interface (one more suited to finger flicks than mouse clicks). Even apps could be rewritten to work better with multitouch. things like iLife and iWork. Not "mobile" versions, but more suitable for the fingers.

remember that patent that surfaced a week or so ago about a new browser interface? perfect for an multitouch tablet.

imagine an 8 mm thick device, almost entirely screen. not a standard desktop with a dock and menu bar, but something more along the lines of an iphone, albeit prettier and more powerful.

-internet browser
-full productivity and "fun time" suites
-acts as an apple tv 3.0 remote
-streams content from your computer to be enjoyed on it's 12" screen
-gps

this is starting to look a few years down the road. but it will happen! by 2012 we'll have 2TB of data in our iPod Touch 4.0s, why not as much or more in our iCarry-this-thing-around-because-it-makes-me-a-better-human-being-s?
post #54 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So Ireland was right after all

Bravo! Do you have a link? I'm curious to see your original prediction...

I was in the camp that thought of the iPhone as the new Newton.

I guess we'll see once (if) this device comes out.

-Clive
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post #55 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

PDAs are dying because their operating systems suck.
PDAs are also typically hamstrung by small screens, weak CPUs, and terrible GUIs.

There's some truth to that, but you can also make a strong case the OSes of the smartphones that eating their lunch also have OSes that suck. (And often with just as small screens and mediocre GUIs.)

Quote:
If Apple releases an API for this device and supports 3rd party development, it will be successful. As far as the mainstream goes... WiFi + Safari + eMail = mainstream

I agree that third-party development changes everything. It then becomes basically an OS X tablet. Of course the danger then is that it will cannibalize Mac sales... but that may be a risk that Apple has to take (Macs will always be faster, have more storage, have larger screens).

re WiFi + Safari + email = mainstream .... perhaps. But what's basically an internet tablet device without pervasive 'net access isn't very appealing. So either Apple has something up their sleeves for that (a deal with AT&T's Wi-Fi hot spots across the U.S. perhaps?) or they've got a product that has no primary function - which is very unlike Apple.
post #56 of 314
There are many R&D projects that go no where, but the best components of those projects most certainly got put into real products (i.e. the iPod touch or iPhone). The Apple PDA just never made it out of the R&D department.
post #57 of 314
If it's not pocketable, it's not going to be worth carrying around in addition to a notebook computer (one of the arguments against the Foleo.) The great thing about the iPhone and Touch is that it already has the hardware to match or exceed PDA's, but I can see why Apple will always limit some functionality to preserve the user experience of those devices.

But if they make this new unit right, it can possibly be a notebook replacement (the Foleo really wasn't), with a really cool touch-driven interface, handwriting recognition, etc. As well as Bluetooth keyboard capable. I think it will still rely on partnering with a regular PC though. But instead of having a desktop and a notebook (as many do), you would have this unit plus just 1 regular computer.

I think Apple is wise to try to extend the multitouch interface. But I don't know, this seems cool but also seems like a solution in search of a problem. OTOH if they really release this thing, I'm sure they will floor everyone at MacWorld when it is debuted. I think it will have an open platform for 3rd party apps, but will still be closer to the iPhone user experience than Mac OS X.
post #58 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruc2827 View Post

The PDA is merely new functionality that will be added to the iPod and iPhone. Why on earth would you want a stand alone PDA without iPod or phone? C'mon guys, use your noggin. The iPhone and iPod touch ARE ultra mobile PCs, they just don't run a full suite of apps. But they are full powered PC devices running OSX and can pretty much run any desktop OS X app modified. You guys are seriously off the mark thinking this is a whole new device.


I would love to have a device that is slightly larger than the iPhone, light, wifi enabled, able to run small applications, open documents, maybe email, PDA functionality. Lots of storage , iPod software.

I want to be able to carry it in my purse, have it available most of the time.
I'd buy it in a second. Can't purchase the iPhone (long contract) or the iTouch (too limited).

Maybe select the software functionality that you want. An Internet gadget?
post #59 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

This is why the iPhone and iPod touch is limited and Apple doesn't want you to put your own 3rd party apps on it. They have a PDA they want to push, and if some developer is writing apps that will do everything that this PDA offers it will equal low PDA sells. Just my .02.

reading your insight, it makes a lot of sense. i'll be waiting for that pda announcement, haven't got my hands on either of them yet, but i'm pretty sure that iNewton should be pretty awesome..
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post #60 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

Palm, Dell, HP, Sony, and every other PDA manufacturer learned years ago that the standalone PDA was a dead product. Microsoft proved that the "Tablet" PC and "Oragami" had no real market. Now Apple is going to come in and somehow create this market? I don't think so.

No, what they've proven is that, as was the case with the phone, they're incapable of doing it in an elegant and usable manner.
As always, that's what Apple will bring to the table.

Everyone on this list always makes the mistake of thinking that, because they personally would have no use for a product or feature, that that makes it doomed to failure.

I personally find the idea of a paperback size Touch with full laptop capabilities pretty intriguing. I don't live on the phone, so it doesn't bother me to occasionally have to carry 2 devices. That combo being phone and Touch, or phone and paperback-sized-tablet not to be that bad of an option.

We'll see I guess.
post #61 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

Can the iPhone decipher "lunch with bob on monday" and intelligently schedule an appointment, the next monday, at noon, with the most popular "Bob" in your contacts (and give you the chance to correct it)?

The Newton could. Nothing else today can. I believe Chronos got close, but that's a desktop app.

Thin as an iPhone, the area of a paperback, the high points of a Newton? I'll take it.

There's already an online program that does this. I saw the demo several weeks ago, but I didn't bookmark it. You can enter natural language which is interpreted into calendar instructions for meetings, appointments, etc. The demo is cool, but frankly it saves only seconds.

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post #62 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

we'll have to wait and see.

Really?
post #63 of 314
A reborn PDA makes no sense. This is either iPhone 3.0 with handwriting recognition and third party developer access or a much larger iTablet (laptop replacement) with Mac OS X inside.

The PDA is dead as a standalone device.
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post #64 of 314
two words:
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post #65 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

(let's call it what it is, people) Touch Tablets.

As the running joke in 'Shakespeare in Love' went, 'Good name!'.
post #66 of 314
I have mentioned a product along these lines several times before (as has Ireland).

It makes perfect sense and you can see the pieces coming together, in a HUGE way. The problem is marketing the device. What is it? A Macbook, A Mac Mini Replacement or a bigger iPod/iPhone?

All I know (and I've mentioned this before) is Leopard is slapping us round the face with the clues!!!

Why does the 3D Dock exist? (Because it wants to be touched?)
Coverflow in Finder
Core Animation
Quicklook Documents with a Single Touch

Give me a break!!!!!! It's everywhere. This is the biggest stealth project in History!!

This could be the first Mac to dock in every area of your life.
The Home, The Car, The Office and The Pocket!!

5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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post #67 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxmedia View Post

If it's not pocketable, it's not going to be worth carrying around in addition to a notebook computer (one of the arguments against the Foleo.) The great thing about the iPhone and Touch is that it already has the hardware to match or exceed PDA's, but I can see why Apple will always limit some functionality to preserve the user experience of those devices.

There's no confirmation that such a beast will ever be released, but if an Apple product were able to successfully replace a paper-based Compact planner (Franklin-Covey) at a reasonable price, it could be a huge hit. The problem with trying to replace a paper planner is price and durability. Paper is very hard to beat in those areas, and I predict that won't happen until very high resolution, low-power e-ink displays are common... maybe 6 to 10 years off.

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post #68 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

TI agree that third-party development changes everything. It then becomes basically an OS X tablet. Of course the danger then is that it will cannibalize Mac sales

EVERYTHING eventually gets cannibalized. The successful company just controls the cannibalization.

Have MacBooks cannibalized (i.e. destroyed the market for) desktops? Not yet, but if that eventually happens, then its better to be in the position of having done it yourself than having someone else do it to you.
post #69 of 314
A few weeks ago, I was contemplating why Apple was pushing the resolution independence feature so heavily to developers. This is a new feature to developers in Leopard, yet it's not a major concern today. Sure, the MacBooks have resolutions up to 100dpi, but that's not a huge difference from the standard 72dpi. But, if you look at the iPhone and the new iPod nano, those handheld devices have extremely high resolutions (around 300dpi).

Put 2 and 2 together and you see that Apple must be planning to let developers create apps for some kind of handheld device, which will have a very high-rez display.

And my own personal prediction was exactly what they indicated here. Apple's different take on a sub-notebook, with multi-touch display.

Except... multi-touch is a more limited interface. You can't have apps work the same way they do when using a mouse/trackpad. For example, on an iPhone, you can't do drag-and-drop, since that is how the user "scrolls" around on a webpage. So how will Apple solve this problem?? I don't know, but I trust them to find a good solution. And I can't wait to have my apps running on a more portable device!
post #70 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeTheRock View Post

I wonder if this will play music/video like the touch. It does'nt seem that this would cut into those sales of the Touch, even if it did, because of the size. i think it will have wi-fi an BT. what else?

I think most modern PDAs do that kind of stuff so it would be silly for anything new not to. As far as I am concerned the iPod Touch is just a PDA with an iPod name.
post #71 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


EXCEPT SPEECH RECOGNITION!!!!!!!!!!

Will SOMEone work on that, please? It's hindering our technological advancement.

-Clive

It's bad enough putting up with boors yakking on their cell phones in public places, now we'll have to suffer geeks talking dirty to their mobile macs on top of that?
post #72 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by haney64 View Post

A few weeks ago, I was contemplating why Apple was pushing the resolution independence feature so heavily to developers. This is a new feature to developers in Leopard, yet it's not a major concern today. Sure, the MacBooks have resolutions up to 100dpi, but that's not a huge difference from the standard 72dpi. But, if you look at the iPhone and the new iPod nano, those handheld devices have extremely high resolutions (around 300dpi).

The iPhone and iPod touch have 163 PPI screens.

In order to come up with the size, for the mockup, I assumed the following:

1) This new handheld would leverage the same multi-touch interface as the iPhone/iPod touch.

2) In order to keep continuity of the interface, the screen would likely be the same PPI.

As such, the new 'Newton' would have a 5.5" screen to achieve a 720x480 resolution.
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post #73 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

This could be the first Mac to dock in every area of your life.
The Home, The Car, The Office and The Pocket!!


Yeah. It looks to be about the size of the dashboard mounted navigation, telephony,
and entertainment systems in Lexus, BMW, etc. I wonder if this is the in-car device
that has been rumored. It would be cool to have an Apple UI on a removable faceplate
thingy that performed all those functions via Mac OS X.

The market for it would be everyone who has a car.
post #74 of 314
I agree with the peeps that say this doesn't make any sense as a PDA. Apple would want to grow the iPhone and the next logical step for that would be true PDA functionality, or at the very least better PIM features.

My guess is that this will lead to (not be) the tablet Mac. Size wise I'm thinking 6 to 8 inch wide-screen display, with multi-touch. O/S would be full blown OS X, limited by chipset features. It would have Wi-Fi and BlueTooth as well as USB 2.0 (or 3.0) ports for external devices and a video-out connector with support for various dongles like the current notebooks have. Video would be integrated Intel. As far as handwriting recognition goes, that would depend on the release of the unit. If it's released next year, than no handwriting recognition, but if we're talking '09, multi-touch v2 should be ready for the public, and it would become a more likely feature. The current multi-touch technology works well in a small size unit, so a lot of testing would need to be done to see if it would scale well to a larger display, as well as getting down the cost to manufacture it and sell it at a reasonable price. It wouldn't have cellular capabilities as that would require too much power for the size device. It would be flash based with no hard drive, probably in the 30 GB range.
post #75 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmankoff View Post

this is starting to look a few years down the road. but it will happen! by 2012 we'll have 2TB of data in our iPod Touch 4.0s

Excuse me? Did you say 2012? 2TB?!?!

Today's iPos touch has a max of 16GB. HD capacity roughly follows Moore's Law and doubles every 24 months (not to be confused with overall performance, which doubles every 18 months). It's almost 2008, so that leaves two full cycles of Moore's Law units 2012... putting us at 64GB... 128GB at the very best. We can expect 2TB flash by 2020, maybe.

However, once we master nanotechnology, we may start falling into the "technological singularity," where devices start designing their successors... but I doubt that'll happen before 2020.

-Clive
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post #76 of 314
In one corner, we have iPhone and iPod Touch with OS X, but with limited functionality due to limited processor and touch display, which is due to limited pocketable size.

In the other corner, we have Mac laptops with Leopard, which requires a "hefty" processor and keyboard/mouse to drive its functionality. ("hefty" only in relation to the ARM-based embedded processors.)

What types of touch-screen devices make sense in-between these two? Coming from the iPhone corner, if a device is no longer pocketable so that there could be a larger (5-9")display, but still light (9 to 14 ounces) and thin, what would we want to use it for beyond that available in iPhone/iPod Touch? Web surfing would be easier. Data input would be easier. Document viewing and editing would be easier. Movie-watching would be nicer. But what else would make a large market want this instead of iPod touch?

Coming from the Mac corner, how much can we take away from a Mac laptop and still call it a "Mac"? How much Mac capability are we willing to trade-off to get a lighter and thinner Mac? Does a Mac by definition need to run Leopard? If so, then it needs a well-powered Intel chip, which drives battery. Note that Jobs poo-pooed touch interfaces for the Mac, so then a Mac needs a keyboard/pad (speech input is still not here!). Does it need more than 64GB storage? That would require a HDD if it was released within a year which would drive battery.

Thoughts? Apple just might be listening.
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post #77 of 314
Think outside the "box" ladies and gents.

Who says this is the next Newton?

Who says this is the next PDA?

Was the Newton a PDA? I think it was more than that, and in some ways, less than that.

It was ahead of its time, but the times are now way ahead of it.

This device will not be a re-invented Newton, nor will it be a PDA, nor will it be a UMPC.

It will fit exactly where millions of people want it to fit, or it won't be manufactured.

My bet is that it WILL be manufactured, and it will again change the way we work.

It will not be a small laptop. It will not be a PDA. It will not be a re-incarnation of the Newton.

It will be an "Apple-way-of-doing-things" device.

The iPhone is revolutionary as a phone. The Mac OS is clearly the best interface for a keyboard-based PC/laptop right now.

Again, think outside the box!

Put elements of the Newton, the iPod, the iPhone, the Mac, and add Apples flare for wonderful usability, size it right with the proper connections to the outside world, and you have the new device that is being talked about.

Think outside the box! Do we not know Apple well enough that they can come out with game-changing devices? If not, we should by now.

Don't think Personal Digital Assistant, think Personal Digital Life Manager... Imagine it cohesively linking your Mac, your AppleTV, your Home Theater, your Home Automation, etc. etc.

I'm putting a 50/50 guess that we will see this device by mid-year next year.

IMHO.
post #78 of 314
The poster from Michigan/Brisbane was onto something....
This thing would have to be good for train commuters, etc, and really has to have broadband. It could have both GSM and CDMA radios in it and you could use your existing company. Even if they did an exclusive with verizon, this ?? doesn't violate the ATT agreement because the thing wouldn't have a microphone... ie it's not a phone. It's a new type of device. It's an always available window into the web.

They may be trying to expand their content relationships to publishing, and do an apple print store. Read your newspapers at starbucks?

Something like this could be a hit at home also as a remote, picture frame, recipe source (imagine buying recipes for 99 cents and standing that puppy up in your kitchen).

As a market expands, more segments appear. Mobile demand will likely demand an intermediate device like this. (After all, first it was just the model T....)

Collaboration with Google when they win the 700MHz auction?
post #79 of 314
Seriously - the iPhone presently fails as a business-useful PDA. There is a need and there are many uses for a portable information storage device that's less clumsy to use in a car or plane than a notebook. The iPhone could grow into having these capabilities but Apple seems to want to control the ecosystem and focus on its Phone/Email/iPod uses.

What's needed is the ability to run apps such as FileMaker. Explain to me why Palm & Windows CE devices have FileMaker Mobile and the iPhone does not. I'd also like the ability to store and display Word docs, PDF's and Excel files on a pocket device and have the ability to call them up with a few taps via a file browser and view them on a readable display. You need to be able to have a standard page width of text readable on the display without the need to zoom. The larger touch display also would allow a more usable on-screen keyboard.

Put the Mac OS on a pocket device with WiFi & Bluetooth and fully open it up to developers to port applications to - and Apple will really have something. When out of WiFi range let it connect using Bluetooth through the iPhone to the web. Lots of possibilities...

Since Apple has demonstrated what's possible with the MacOS on a portable device with the iPhone nothing would surprise me. I expect in a few years we'll be carrying the capability todays notebooks in our pockets.
post #80 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

There's already an online program that does this. I saw the demo several weeks ago, but I didn't bookmark it. You can enter natural language which is interpreted into calendar instructions for meetings, appointments, etc. The demo is cool, but frankly it saves only seconds.

ah yeah, use it all the time.


Folks in the inner loop refer to it as GOOGLE CALENDAR.


Nothing to see, move along.
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