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Interview: "no evidence" Apple understands gaming - Page 2

post #41 of 193
10/2/07 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

Totally agree with this game developer's sentiments....Folks, the inner workings of Apple are a complete disarray,

There's a difference between disarray and tradition. The former is something that is outside of the normal scope of operations. The latter is how things have always been done and is SOP.

To argue otherwise would beg the question - when has Apple NOT been in some form of disarray?

Fanboy it up all you want but the vast talent pool local to Apple's operations wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot cattle prod and for good reason. Being a happy jolly place to hitch one's wagon - isn't one of them.
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post #42 of 193
10/2/07 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

Totally agree with this game developer's sentiments. Apple HATES game developers, and that's because Steve Jobs personally HATES games. Whatever Steve doesn't like doesn't get accomplished... yet MISSING GAMES ARE THE #1 BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THE MACINTOSH PLATFORM!!!

It is also sooo true about the rapid turnaround at internal departments within Apple... and the new team has NO IDEA about what the previous team had accomplished.

Folks, the inner workings of Apple are a complete disarray, and you need no more proof of this than the fact that WE HAVE NO GAMES ON MAC OS X!

STEVE JOBS, WHY DON'T YOU GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER?! THE WHOLE WORLD WANTS GAMES.

Lying and using absolutes is no way to win a debate or get your point across:

1) There are games for Mac OS X.
2) The whole world doesn't want games.
3) I feel games on OS X is one of the smallest issues. Sure it will bring in some switchers but I don't think it would be many as from what I read gamers want more control over changing out video cards and such.
4) Steve Jobs may not be a gamer but to say Apple hates gamers makes no sense. I recall a recent keynote where Apple was working with at least two game developers to bring games to the Mac. As the Mac marketshare increases I think we'll see more developers wanting to develop for the Mac. Maybe then we'll see Apple try to compete with Windows on that level, but it being such a small segment of the market I wouldn't count on it. Apple has to many other important things to worry about.
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post #43 of 193
10/2/07 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

- I work with animation.
- I work with illustration.
- I do video editing.
- I do DVD authoring.
- I create music.
- I write.
- I communicate and use the web.

But... I don't play computer games. Not because there aren't so many games.. no, but because I don't care so much about computer games. It typically takes too much time and uh... I think the kind of games I would like aren't available on computers anyway.

- Hence... I have a Nintendo Wii, that I occasionally play games on in the sofa.

I guess Apple thinks that all their customers are like me. But we all know that's not the case.

No, but some of us want to pretend it is. \

Seriously, I think a lot of the bad feelings on this issue date back to the late '80s/early '90s, when Apple, quite foolishly, thought that part of getting the Mac taken seriously as a BUSINESS machine was to stifle game development for the Mac.

Up to that point, Mac gaming was actually doing quite well, and was ahead of it's PC cousin.

Now, I'd say that Apple's stance towards gaming has changed from outright hostility to, well... indifference. They say all the right things from time to time, but as Valve, a premiere game developer states, they never seem to follow up.

So what we're left with is gamers continuing to be upset with Apple for not following through, and distrusting Apple due to its "we hate games" legacy, and non-gamers insisting that games don't matter and telling gamers to "go buy a console." How quaint.


.
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post #44 of 193
10/2/07 at 7:39pm
A semantic comment (?quibble?) here: Las Vegas calls gambling "gaming". From the title I thought that the article was somehow about Apple getting involved with on-line gambling.

Further afield, we Mac users have constantly been told that the latest advance, whether the introduction of OS X or Intel CPUs, would make it easier for the developers of Windows software to make Mac versions, and soon after the introduction of the Windows versions. While I'm not very interested in computer games from what I have read over the years this hasn't happened and isn't likely to anytime soon. Maybe it'll take Apple breaking through the 10% of installed computers barrier for developers to take notice, if only for the sake of their pocketbooks.
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post #45 of 193
10/2/07 at 7:50pm
Gaming on the Mac is crap compared to gaming on Windows. When is Apple going to get a clue on this one?
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post #46 of 193
10/2/07 at 7:59pm
It's not like they'd have to change their entire business to accommodate gamers.

The amount they charge for a three year old graphics card is ridiculous. Apple doesn't need to make systems specifically for gaming, but why scare people off?

I don't play a lot of computer games, but I'd like my Mac Pro to be uniformly updated. Is that too much to ask?
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post #47 of 193
10/2/07 at 8:24pm
several people have made the [very good] point that "hardcore" gaming is done far more on a dedicated console than on a pc, and i can't see that changing. if i were a gamer i would rather buy a console every 2-3 years and play games specifically designed for the hardware i have than to be tearing open my peecee every 6 months to add ram/swap video cards/etc.

the need for a pc to play networked games is gone. the need for a $5,000 pc to get good 3d graphics is gone. i suppose if halo 3 were playable with my keyboard and mouse the way quake was i might try it. no, that would require a $450 console investment.

if you want games make that $450 console investment.

if you were designing computers, why add $450 worth of video hardware to make them more appealing to the ever shrinking pc gamer market? that would also make them more expensive, and therefore less appealing to every other customer.
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post #48 of 193
10/2/07 at 8:38pm
To all who want to play games, get a cheap PC or add Boot Camp--- the solution is easy and I am thinking that the article misses the point that so many developers have never wanted to make Mac games because the market is "oh, so small"-- they have said so!!!

Could Apple help? Who knows? Hackers certainly don't need an iota of help from Apple and their hurdles are enormous-- so why do game developers need something more than Apple already offers application developers. This is ONE BIG whiny story.

Now, back to Boot Camp!!!
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post #49 of 193
10/2/07 at 8:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Microsoft can and has done EFI booting but the problem is that the hardware makers don't seem to care to offer it.

Microsoft has not officially released an EFI windows yet. HP has EFI servers and they had to make an EFI boot manager to be able to launch windows 2k3.

M$ announced that EFI would first be supported in Vista 64bit SP1. We're still waiting on that.

http://apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/E666E...25712C008166C4

Read the link above for more information.

The problem isn't the hardware. Intel, Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, Abit, and Foxconn all have EFI readied motherboards. They can only release some for linux people, since the most widely used OS in the world isn't compatible.

Chicken Vs. Egg here.

 

 

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post #50 of 193
10/2/07 at 8:56pm
For all of you that say PC gaming can be 100% replaced by a console, you're 100% wrong.

This has been debated over and over and over again.

Points for pc gaming:

A) You DON'T need a top of the line video card to play the newest games. As Crytek said in a recent interview, their specifications are made for computers 3 years old from the release date.

B) You DON'T have full control / accuracy on a console like you have a PC

C) With a console you don't have the speed of a PC for games. I'm talking about load times (my biggest complaint about consoles).

D) On RTS and FPS games Mouse + Keyboard smokes a game pad any day.

E) Mods. Some of the biggest mods I've ever seen was Urban Terror / Counter Strike. There were so many mods for Quake 3 and half-life. Impossible with consoles.

F) Communication for Multiplayer games is much easier on PCs vs consoles. Teamspeak, Ventrillo, X-Fire, Built-in communication, built-in chat communication.

I think it's beginning to be a common misconception that PC gaming is a niche market. The expansion pack to world of warcraft (burning crusades) sold over 2.4 MILLION copies in 1 day. Battlefield 2 has sold over 2.5 million copies. These are just 2 games.

PC gaming is alive and well. It will never die. Most of the innovation for consoles comes from pc gaming. It would be hard to have one without the other.

For all the people that want to switch to mac but can't because of games, it only hurts apple in the end. Why not create a small team internally in apple? Get APIs together, Listen to the developers, add at least low end graphics cards isntead of dedicated graphics cards to your lower class machines, and go from there.

/end rant

 

 

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post #51 of 193
10/2/07 at 9:28pm
I can see no evidence that Valve understands Apple.
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post #52 of 193
10/2/07 at 9:34pm
I see no evidence that Valve understands Apple. I guess when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
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post #53 of 193
10/2/07 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Microsoft has not officially released an EFI windows yet. HP has EFI servers and they had to make an EFI boot manager to be able to launch windows 2k3.

M$ announced that EFI would first be supported in Vista 64bit SP1. We're still waiting on that.

http://apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/E666E...25712C008166C4

Read the link above for more information.

The problem isn't the hardware. Intel, Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, Abit, and Foxconn all have EFI readied motherboards. They can only release some for linux people, since the most widely used OS in the world isn't compatible.

Chicken Vs. Egg here.

Not only is EFI booting not here until Vista 64bit SP1, it won't be 100% native EFI booting (INT10 will still be required for video) so this does little to cause video card vendors to move to EFI.
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post #54 of 193
10/2/07 at 9:37pm
I don't know enough about gaming but one conversation i had with a prolific gamer gave me the impression that gamers frequently like to tweak their engine to the extent of being able to manipulate the graphic cards etc., and that in their endless quest for "responsiveness and speed" the gaming engine almost "becomes the OS".

And i have seen some of the machines owned by gaming addicts. They are virtually unusable for anything else!

If this is true, i don't blame Apple for not wanting to have anything to do with this section of consumers because the last thing you want is a good consumer strategy to be affected because a bunch of gamers wanted their copy of 'Doom' to run 2% faster or something.

So maybe in this regard, it is wise to ask Valve - "What exactly are those three things that you request from Apple after which they become unavailable?"
That may well be the problem Apple has with you guys!
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post #55 of 193
10/2/07 at 10:12pm
If Apple can do Anything that fits a reasonable projected cost-benefit ratio/ profit margin tolerance, to increase the size of its market base, it should do it; -regardless of the peculiarities of the chairman.

If there is a way to make things more open, include better graphics on all models (esp. since apples are supposed to be better: this means you, MacMini and MacBook), put pressure on ATI/Nvidia for easy ROM flashes for cheap cards, open systems like OpenGL or a cross-platform translation of Direct3D, providing custom cross-platform compilers/porting engines, they should do it. It's just good business sense.

The history of american business is littered with the corpses of companies that stayed too scared & closed and did not expand, merge, acquire & conglomerate when at the height of their powers. (it's the only reason AOL survived in any way) One of the most successful models is an innovative conglomerate, as opposed to a stifling dictatorial integrator.
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post #56 of 193
10/2/07 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

the need for a $5,000 pc to get good 3d graphics is gone.


Umm... yeah, mainly 'cuz it takes nowhere near $5000 to have a decent gaming PC. Been that way for a long time now, actually.

Where have you been since the '90s? \

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post #57 of 193
10/2/07 at 10:29pm
Everything I have seen points to Newell being correct. Apple has no interest in gaming or gamers, and pays lip service to that market at best. Whether it should do more is a different question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skanoza View Post

I don't know enough about gaming but one conversation i had with a prolific gamer gave me the impression that gamers frequently like to tweak their engine to the extent of being able to manipulate the graphic cards etc., and that in their endless quest for "responsiveness and speed" the gaming engine almost "becomes the OS".

And i have seen some of the machines owned by gaming addicts. They are virtually unusable for anything else!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwill246 View Post

To all who want to play games, get a cheap PC or add Boot Camp--- the solution is easy and I am thinking that the article misses the point that so many developers have never wanted to make Mac games because the market is "oh, so small"-- they have said so!!!
...
Hackers certainly don't need an iota of help from Apple and their hurdles are enormous-- so why do game developers need something more than Apple already offers application developers. This is ONE BIG whiny story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

if i were a gamer i would rather buy a console every 2-3 years and play games specifically designed for the hardware i have than to be tearing open my peecee every 6 months to add ram/swap video cards/etc.

the need for a pc to play networked games is gone. the need for a $5,000 pc to get good 3d graphics is gone. i suppose if halo 3 were playable with my keyboard and mouse the way quake was i might try it. no, that would require a $450 console investment.

if you want games make that $450 console investment.

if you were designing computers, why add $450 worth of video hardware to make them more appealing to the ever shrinking pc gamer market? that would also make them more expensive, and therefore less appealing to every other customer.

I don't say this lightly, but you guys seem totally misinformed about PC gaming and the required hardware.

Here's a tip: if you take a normal desktop PC that is newer than two years old and add a $130 graphics card today, it becomes a decent gaming machine able to run e.g. Bioshock well. Better than the average machine on Steam, actually, and machines on Steam are in turn better than the average gamer machine since Steam is focused on first person shooters.

To get equivalent or better performance from a Boot Camped Mac compared to what you can get from a $700 PC, you need a Mac Pro with a X1900XT - that's what, $2500 or so?

Integrated graphics found in most Apple machines are worth nothing for gaming. Boot Camp doesn't help when the problem is totally gimped hardware.

You can play games just fine buying a new computer every two, three years without opening it up once. Alternatively, you can swap some components yourself and get by somewhat cheaper.
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post #58 of 193
10/2/07 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post

If microsoft ever moved past their 80s technology, yes im talking about bios, then most video cards would be made with efi. That would help some

EFI is not a hardware barrier, it's software. Firmware can be written for almost all video cards out there to make them work with EFI. It's a bitch (just like drivers are a bitch), but that's how it's done--not by hardware modification.

You really should use words like 'firmware' and 'drivers' for video cards interchangeably, because they really are just a matter of coding. Apple could write drivers if they wanted to, or at least pay NVidia to. Actually, if they ordered enough units, I'm sure NVidia/ATi would make the drivers themselves.

Apple has shown they have no interest in gaming after they downgraded the card in the new iMac in favor of the cheaper 2600/2400's.

Maybe it was due to form factor or heat, but regardless, it was a downgrade, and it was lame.

Switching cards to EFI kind of silly. Why would NVidia/ATi do that? The only Mac that can use PCI cards is the Mac Pro, and that's only a tiny part of the mac using population (Also, they're not usually the gaming type).

The Macbook--Apple's top selling mac--has integrated graphics!

Since 90%+ of computers Apple sells (all but mac pro) don't have upgradeable video cards, it's APPLE'S job to put good cards into their computers. Don't blame the video card manufacturers, it's Apple that chooses the cards. Drivers cost money to write, but that's the cost of not using Windows. Apple's margins are the highest in the industry anyway, they can afford to put in some better hardware and write the drivers for it.
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post #59 of 193
10/2/07 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

To get equivalent or better performance from a Boot Camped Mac compared to what you can get from a $700 PC, you need a Mac Pro with a X1900XT - that's what, $2500 or so?

That's the bottom line.

I'd also like to add that the X1900 XT in the mac pro is 20 MONTHS OLD.

Nice 'flagship machine', Apple.
Mac user since before you were born.
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post #60 of 193
10/2/07 at 10:46pm
All I know is that I dug out my old PC so I could play TF2. Its fun as hell and I worked past the Windows thing
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post #61 of 193
10/2/07 at 11:07pm
Apple made a big deal about games at WWDC this year. Then they released fancy new iMacs with video cards that perform worse than the ones they sold last year. I think that single act proved that Apple doesn't care about games.

The vast majority of people who play games on their computers are casual gamers, people who play games to have a bit of fun. I do that. I have a favorite card game for short breaks and a few RTS games for times when I have a couple of hours. I don't need anything more than a 3 year old Mac with a stock video card for that. However, should I choose to try a newer game I'm out of luck because (a) most games aren't available for Mac, (b) even games with modest requirements on the PC are too much for most Mac graphic cards, and (c) I can't upgrade my graphics without buying a whole new computer.

Finally I'd like to make a non-game comment that Apple should pay attention to. I work in software development. I'm working on a medical image product that uses OpenGL. Unfortunately the software requires more graphic horsepower than is available on the MacBook. This means that the otherwise perfect tool for the job, the Axiotron Modbook, can't get the job done. I realize this isn't a big deal for the broader market, but is another area where Apple's refusal to diversify the product line and put real graphics chips in their machines is limiting sales.
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post #62 of 193
10/2/07 at 11:28pm
Since that the majority of people who own a Mac are casual gamers, why dont Apple start of with something simple that wouldn't take a long time to port? for instance Pop Cap Games make loads of very simple but highly addictive games dont cost very much at all.
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post #63 of 193
10/2/07 at 11:32pm
I just wish they would update Hoyle Board Games to run under OSX>
If they would do that I could get a new iMac or maybe even a Mac Pro.

Hey what can I say I like Pachisi
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post #64 of 193
10/2/07 at 11:46pm
But that is sad sad sad. Why's everyone saying Macs don't need games? It's not like having games is something BAD, it's quite on the contrary - it helps platform adoption.
Rants aside, I personally REALLY want to play Half-Life 2 on my Mac. Really. And I'm sure many other people do as well. I've even written to Valve about that, so they're probably seeing the interest in Mac community but it SUCKS to know Apple doesn't want to do anything. The world is not all iPhone. They shouldn't forget Macs and the more types of apps it has - the better.
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post #65 of 193
10/3/07 at 12:58am
Quote:
Games are "one of the biggest things holding them back in the consumer space," he said. "If you look at a Macintosh right now, it does a lot of things really well compared to a Vista PC, but there are no games.

Boy is this guy clueless! There aren't any games for the PC or Vista either! Games on the computer are dead. Do some research. Consoles sell many more games than PC or Mac games. And there are games for the Mac.

People are not playing games on the computer anymore. The consoles are far more powerful. XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen. PS2 titles still outnumber any competing console or PC. I would much rather play a game on a nice large HDTV any day.

So these poor game developers that still think there is money to be made in PC gaming are pretty clueless. They need to focus their efforts on the consoles.
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post #66 of 193
10/3/07 at 1:29am
Look people,
Steve said no.
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post #67 of 193
10/3/07 at 1:35am
Apple would sell more Macs if they supported the gamer. I used to game semi professionally and the gaming market is huge. Apple really are missing out by ignoring the gaming population. A lot of gamers would gladly move over to OS X. Stability, better recourse management and the fact that it's Unix would appeal to many. It's just the hardware and lack of available titles that's stopping them. If Apple updated their mindset on gaming and came up with some clever marketing to promote it, they could increase their install base dramatically.
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post #68 of 193
10/3/07 at 1:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Boy is this guy clueless! There aren't any games for the PC or Vista either! Games on the computer are dead. Do some research. Consoles sell many more games than PC or Mac games. And there are games for the Mac.

People are not playing games on the computer anymore. The consoles are far more powerful. XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen. PS2 titles still outnumber any competing console or PC. I would much rather play a game on a nice large HDTV any day.

So these poor game developers that still think there is money to be made in PC gaming are pretty clueless. They need to focus their efforts on the consoles.



Sigh.
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post #69 of 193
10/3/07 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Boy is this guy clueless! There aren't any games for the PC or Vista either! Games on the computer are dead. Do some research. Consoles sell many more games than PC or Mac games. And there are games for the Mac.

People are not playing games on the computer anymore. The consoles are far more powerful. XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen. PS2 titles still outnumber any competing console or PC. I would much rather play a game on a nice large HDTV any day.

So these poor game developers that still think there is money to be made in PC gaming are pretty clueless. They need to focus their efforts on the consoles.

You are clearly an idiot. What the heck do you know about the computer game market that someone who works in the computer game industry doesn't? If there wasn't money to be made in the computer game market, do you really think Valve, Blizzard, or EA would waste resources continuing to create games for PC's? Sorry, EA isn't making PC games just for the fun of it. If PC games weren't making money, EA would shut down that division in a heartbeat.

Perhaps you should do some research before talking out of your a**.
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post #70 of 193
10/3/07 at 2:13am
Apple should focus on chess. The chess icon is a beauty while the pawns and the actual chessboard are horrendous to the eye. They should move away from the kitchy grass, metal, marble chessboard or whatever. They even screwed up the wood.
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post #71 of 193
10/3/07 at 2:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Apple should focus on chess. The chess icon is a beauty while the pawns and the actual chessboard are horrendous to the eye. They should move away from the kitchy grass, metal, marble chessboard or whatever. They even screwed up the wood.

It looks like Apple purchased it in 2003 but it doesn't look like it's been updated since the early 90s. I've always felt they should include more simple games in OS X.
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post #72 of 193
10/3/07 at 2:29am
Sorry I can't not rip this guy. I tried to resist, but I just can't!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Boy is this guy clueless! There aren't any games for the PC or Vista either

You are calling the president on one of the most successful game development companies of all time clueless? Valve have been responsible for titles such as Half Life and Counter Strike, two of the most successful games of all time. Then you go on to say that there are not games for the PC or Vista. Unless you're talking about crappy dance games or ultra unrealistic kiddie platform games almost ALL games developed for the XBox or PS can be found for the PC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Do some research.

Yes you do that before you post unfounded comments in the future!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

People are not playing games on the computer anymore.

Where did you pull that from? The whole professional gaming community is based on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

The consoles are far more powerful.

lol, you have no clue do you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen. PS2 titles still outnumber any competing console or PC. I would much rather play a game on a nice large HDTV any day.

Umm.. PC screens are more than capable of displaying HD content. In fact, you will find that there are currently and proportionally far more HD compatable displays being used on gaming 'PCs' than you will find connected up to games console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

So these poor game developers that still think there is money to be made in PC gaming are pretty clueless. They need to focus their efforts on the consoles.

Yes they do and that's why they make hundreds of millions and you don't!
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post #73 of 193
10/3/07 at 2:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sladuuch View Post

Gaming is huge, and anyone who thinks that "gaming" is nothing but Quake 4 running on a box that looks like a traffic accident with 2 8800GTXs in it and fans the size of a fat lady's thighs is just dead wrong. That crowd is incredibly small, and the vast majority of "gamers" play their games with a minimum of technical knowledge because they (gasp!) like to play games. The Sims 2, for example, is an incredibly popular example of this, and yet it plays like a dog on the MacBook--the most popular Mac sold these days. Don't think many people like playing The Sims? The original in the series was the first game to beat the sales of Myst (12 million copies sold), which came out in 1993. People who have never even heard of a dedicated graphics card play games that require them on the PC side because it doesn't cost $2000 to buy a laptop that comes with one. Lots of people routinely play graphically-intensive titles without being "hardcore" enough to live the "gaming lifestyle" you seem to think that playing games requires.

If the MacBook had an NVIDIA 8400 in it, it'd be no problem for all but the highest-end games these days and would certainly play the kind of "non-hardcore" 3D games people buy in the truckloads. This would help a whole lot.

The other problem is the lack of a low-price expandable desktop. If you want expandability and future-proofness, the $2000+ Mac Pro is the way to go, but it's almost twice the cost of many PC gaming rigs (such as the one I put together for a friend last month, which clocked in at under $800 and included an 8800GTS). A sub-$1000, smaller-form-factor desktop that had a PCI slot and a removable hard drive would be pretty perfect for this (and yes, it could even *gasp!* retain Apple's stunning industrial design!).

Apple's choice to ignore gaming is just that--a choice. If there were a will, there would be a way.

I'm happy that I finally found someone one this msg board that has a clue. These are my sentiments exactly.

I have PLENTY of friends that would buy an Apple computer if Apple had a clue (which it definitely doesn't).

I would love to not have to boot into XP to play any games.

Apple... clue No. 2 Get better friggin' video card support, more cards period, and especially for 3D design.

Even when gaming on PCs was a behemoth Apple has ALWAYS FOUND A WAY TO TOTALLY SCREW IT UP! If Apple were to win over all PC gamers I believe they would definitely more than double their user base..... DUH!

Steve.... STEVE.... S-T-E-V-E !!! there are more computer tastes here outside of your own.

It's sad I had to wait until 2007 to spend money on an Apple computer again.

BTW I'm just a casual gamer who won't buy a computer that I can't do everything with, and (even though I have the technical finesse) I don't like to spend too much time under the chassis.

There are many like me out there. I have a job, and not a lot of free time.
Nate
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Nate
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post #74 of 193
10/3/07 at 2:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

However, as a shareholder I can how adding better video cards and beating out comparable games in frames-per-second or what ahve you would have bring over more switchers since that seems to be the most important thing to these people and I know many people whose lives are entrenched in WoW. Some to the point of losing girlfriends and leading to divorces. Is it really that addictive?

I don't know about WoW, but my past addiction to Football Manager did more harm to my personal life than getting addicted to dope...

Yes, game addiction is a disease.
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post #75 of 193
10/3/07 at 3:08am
I agree with the Valve guy; I also hear Apple say they are committed to games just about every other year. But still Apple does not address the "real" flaws with gaming on Macs.

On the other hand, Apple may have solved a major flaw with bootcamp. This greatly reduces the number of flaws with Mac gaming: just run windows.

Aside from having a lot more games to choose from, there's this:
- the videocard drivers for Windows are a lot better (people call it "mature", but I don't see any nudity . A nice feature of the nvidia drivers for windows, is to overclock the card. I managed to OC my tired 7300GT from 350Mhz to 500Mhz and make Valve's excellent Half Life 2 run quite acceptable.

- most games are optimized for windows/directX. That is why the same title on the same hardware will run faster on windows, than on mac. see here: http://www.barefeats.com/imacal3.html

- when running windows on a Mac, you should be able to use the latest and greatest videocard. Keep it in another slot and use a monitor switch when you boot back in Mac. Note; Apple did choose to use some non standard powercables in the Mac Pro.

So basically, only three problems remain:
- Please, please, please Apple: why are you the last to still sell the 1900XT? And for uber$$$ too? Please start supporting newer cards. Oh and sell a little adaptor for the powercord inside the Mac Pro. Yet another easy way to make a shameless $19
- optionally bundle Windows with a Mac. Call it "Game edition", or something.
- stop trying to get native Mac games. stop telling people how great gaming on a Mac is.
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post #76 of 193
10/3/07 at 3:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by okeribok View Post

So basically, only three problems remain:
- Please, please, please Apple: why are you the last to still sell the 1900XT? And for uber$$$ too? Please start supporting newer cards. Oh and sell a little adaptor for the powercord inside the Mac Pro. Yet another easy way to make a shameless $19
- optionally bundle Windows with a Mac. Call it "Game edition", or something.
- stop trying to get native Mac games. stop telling people how great gaming on a Mac is.

If Apple would release a smaller, lower spec Mac Pro with some decent graphics and drivers then it would become the fastest selling Mac in Apple's history.
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post #77 of 193
10/3/07 at 3:15am
[duplicate post]
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #78 of 193
10/3/07 at 3:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

At least with support groups for drug addiction, such as cocaine ( I went with a friend for support), there were lots of hot, thin women with money. With MMORPG support groups, if they exist, I assume it would be mainly a bunch of over weight men.

Overweight?? That's assuming you get up from your chair to eat!!!

Seriously though, I actually lost weight when I was addicted, and it was sad to find that most people don't take game addiction seriously...
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post #79 of 193
10/3/07 at 3:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

I don't know about WoW, but my past addiction to Football Manager did more harm to my personal life than getting addicted to dope...

Yes, game addiction is a disease.

At least with support groups for drug addiction, such as cocaine ( I went with a friend for support), there were lots of hot, thin women with money. With MMORPG support groups, if they exist, I assume it would be mainly a bunch of overweight men with poor diet, poor hygiene and rudimentary social skills. (Yes, I'm well aware of the stereotypes I just implied among addicted gamers, don't blame me, blame South Park's "Make Love Not WarCraft" episode)
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #80 of 193
10/3/07 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcat View Post

A semantic comment (?quibble?) here: Las Vegas calls gambling "gaming". From the title I thought that the article was somehow about Apple getting involved with on-line gambling.

No, that's your fault for getting stuck with one definition of the word when it's not the only valid one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

the need for a pc to play networked games is gone. the need for a $5,000 pc to get good 3d graphics is gone. i suppose if halo 3 were playable with my keyboard and mouse the way quake was i might try it. no, that would require a $450 console investment.

You are way overplaying the cost of a game PC that it's not funny. If you want to look plausible in your arguments, stay away from the stupid hyperbole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Microsoft has not officially released an EFI windows yet. HP has EFI servers and they had to make an EFI boot manager to be able to launch windows 2k3.

EFI support is required to be able boot on Itanium servers & workstations, and Microsoft supported both. There is no BIOS for Itanium that I've heard about. They have not taken that knowledge to the x86 versions. Their reasoning when they said that was because there's no point to putting any man-hours into porting it when there's no hardware to use it.
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