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New report claims 24-hour, variable price iTunes rentals - Page 2

post #41 of 87
12/30/07 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by suhail View Post

I don't know how many users on this forum bought a movie off of iTunes for their Apple TV. Many seem to think that the service is instantaneous - well it's not.

Good point, and I wonder if the movie could be downloaded directly to AppleTV if that's how you want to view it.
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post #42 of 87
12/30/07 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Maybe that's because Netflix is what many of us use? Why compare it against something we don't use if that thing isn't competitive with what we're using? Ideally, like-for-like may be more valid, but here, it's not a realistic expectation for consumers to accept. If we think On-Demand is priced unrealistically, then what's the point of considering Apple's service if it's only comparable to an unrealistic option? That's stretching the argument too far.

I see your point but people need to compare it to what the iTunes rental model will be competing against. To watch decide I want a Netflix rented movie on my iPod is not instant, it's not simple and it's illegal. VOD services offer a simple and instant service that I have used a multitude of times while keeping my Netflix subscription.

I don't plan on canceling my Netflix yet plan on using the iTunes rental option in leu of my cable companies VOD service. Surely, some that hardly utilize Netflix may find that the iTunes service is a better option and switch, but that won't be the majority. Netflix offers something that Apple will not.

Most affected to least affected by iTunes Rentals:
1) VOD services
2) Brick-and-mortar rental stores
3) Netflix

If the AppleTV can finally allow the renting of video and instant viewing (the way iTunes can) then it will be a success that Apple intended. It will no longer be labeled as a lemon and will push the AppleTV even further ahead of every media extender available.
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post #43 of 87
12/30/07 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The 3GB figure is on the upper end, I think iTunes movies can be as small as 1.5GB.

You can stream to AppleTV from your computer, no need to copy the entire file over. On a computer, the user can start watching movies before it's done downloading. You'll want a connection that's faster than real time though. If Apple hasn't already done it, then they need to allow the user to start playing the download before it's done. The part that I know they need to add is to allow buying & renting through AppleTV. Otherwise, it's not really a video on demand system at all, so it's the worst of both worlds, the expense of VOD, but without the same level of convenience as a real VOD.

If the Movie is 2 hours long and is in HD format then it should be, at the very least, 3GB in size. ATV does not stream video except for some You-Tube shows, Movie Trailers, and TV Show Trailers. If they somehow do the same streaming for rented movies, then that would be awesome, but the quality would be ho-hum, try watching the Beowulf Trailer on ATV.

As for FiOS it is not very friendly with Airport, it requires large packets for it to run at 15Mbps (they required me to run a PC install to reach that speed), try doing a speed test on verizon.net/speedtest I got 7Mbps for my 15Mbps connection, that is why I switched back to Cable.
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post #44 of 87
12/30/07 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by suhail View Post

If the Movie is 2 hours long and is in HD format then it should be, at the very least, 3GB in size. ATV does not stream video except for some You-Tube shows, Movie Trailers, and TV Show Trailers. If they somehow do the same streaming for rented movies, then that would be awesome, but the quality would be ho-hum, try watching the Beowulf Trailer on ATV.

I didn't realize you were talking HD. 3GB is really scraping by.

What I mean is that movies do not need to be stored on AppleTV. They can be stored on a local computer and played from that computer. It's probably not streaming it would seem like it to the user.

Quote:
As for FiOS it is not very friendly with Airport, it requires large packets for it to run at 15Mbps (they required me to run a PC install to reach that speed), try doing a speed test on verizon.net/speedtest I got 7Mbps for my 15Mbps connection, that is why I switched back to Cable.

Apple does have a tweaking utility to optimize a Mac for FIOS. It would seem to be pretty odd if Airport is unaware of how to handle that.
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post #45 of 87
12/30/07 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I didn't realize you were talking HD.

What I mean is that movies do not need to be stored on AppleTV. They can be stored on a local computer and played from that computer.

You're right. But after streaming it's gotta download it, and that gets annoying especially with multiple iTune accounts.
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post #46 of 87
12/30/07 at 11:24am
I hope this isn't just movies. I'd love to see rentals of TV shows that come in at significantly less than it currently is to purchase - say, 5 or so episodes for the price of a movie (or about as many TV episodes as fit on a DVD). Then, if they were available soon after the network airing, that would be an incentive for lots of people to think about dumping cable.
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post #47 of 87
12/30/07 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansa11` View Post

I personally think that the DVD era will end. Do you remember video tapes?
I don't know anyone who uses VHS anymore. If we could be able to rent movies
off of iTunes or maybe put them on Apple TV, life would be just perfect. No more waiting for DVD's in the mail or driving to the store. Rentals right in your home, when you want it.

What do you think?

That is why BluRay and HD DVD aren't being widely accepted. Physical media is an intermediate that will be replaced with electronic media.

Dave
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post #48 of 87
12/30/07 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

That is why BluRay and HD DVD aren't being widely accepted. Physical media is an intermediate that will be replaced with electronic media.

There are many reasons why HD optical media isn't being adopted quickly:

• DVDs suit most people's needs
• Upconverting DVD players are cheaper than HD optical players while offering better quality than DVD
• HD optical players are still too expensive for most people
• The HD optical media war shows no clear winner which makes people afraid of buying into a dead-end futureless technology

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post #49 of 87
12/30/07 at 1:33pm
HD movies will be at least 3Gs and take 3 hours to download. In don't think for a rental it will work this way with that hassle. Current downloads on itunes are for buying not renting and the long download time doesn't matter. However, if you rent something you usually want to view it immediately at the point of sale- video pay per view as an example.
Maybe Apple will start streaming content from their Cupertino servers just like porn sites do!
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post #50 of 87
12/30/07 at 1:44pm
24 hours would be a HUGE mistake. Limited amount of plays would be a HUGE mistake. I can't tell you how many times I've fallen asleep watching a movie. In either of those scenarios, you'd be screwed. Either your "one play" would be up, because it ran to the end while you were sleeping, or your 24 hours would run out if you don't finish it before the following evening, before you started watching the night before.

I just can't see Jobs going for any system that restrictive to the user, no matter how desperate he was to get the rentals going.

I know that On Demand services are set up that way, but that's exactly why I don't pay for On Demand movies. I get mad enough when I choose a free video and it "expires" in 24 hours, forcing me to select it again and then fast forward to where I left off the night before.

I'll say it again: monthly subscription (as done by Netflix) is the best option for Apple. No play number restrictions, no time limit for individual movies. If they can't convince the studios of that, then they need something far less restrictive than one play, 24 hours.

And they need to add a store front to the Apple TV interface, so you can choose movies to rent or buy from the couch, and start watching immediately. That's the only way to compete with On Demand, and it's the best way to get the advantage over Netflix.
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post #51 of 87
12/30/07 at 2:24pm
I can't help thinking about the poster who mentioned on these boards some time ago that they'd heard that Apple would be leveraging the technology behind ProRes422 to deliver better material at lower data rates to consumers. In the Pro market, Apple's pitch at NAB was that ProRes422 delivers uncompressed HD at uncompressed SD data rates- that represents a huge drop in file size!. If this is the case, then Apple may be developing a "smarter" encoder in order to deliver HD formats without the huge file size increases many expect.
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post #52 of 87
12/30/07 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post

I can't help thinking about the poster who mentioned on these boards some time ago that they'd heard that Apple would be leveraging the technology behind ProRes422 to deliver better material at lower data rates to consumers. In the Pro market, Apple's pitch at NAB was that ProRes422 delivers uncompressed HD at uncompressed SD data rates- that represents a huge drop in file size!. If this is the case, then Apple may be developing a "smarter" encoder in order to deliver HD formats without the huge file size increases many expect.

Wasn't that at uncompressed SD data rates? That is, circa 15GB/hour?

Amorya
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post #53 of 87
12/30/07 at 4:04pm
Isn't that what I said? Uncompressed HD (248.58 MBytes/sec) at uncompressed SD data Rates (27.97 MBytes/sec).

Though I think the parallel I'm looking for is H264 HD at H264 SD data rate.
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post #54 of 87
12/30/07 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Anyone else notice the growing trend of 'worst case' scenario rumor press over the past three or four years leading up to major special events?

This wreaks of testing the waters to see the test the range of reactions based on the price options they themselves have no doubt tested in closed groups that include Apple corporate employees.

I believe in marketing this is known as "Door In The Face Technique" - you leak that something really bad is going to happen, and the actual outcome seems much better. Governments often do this. If there is going to be an unpopular tax rise - say 5% - there will be an anonymous leak to the press that it's going to be 10%. Then when it's "only" 5%, they look good, instead of bad
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post #55 of 87
12/30/07 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pairof9s View Post

I think the 24 hour issue is going to bigger than most expect. Americans, at least, have become used to the renting of movies and watching at their convenience; Blockbuster came to find that out when they were forced to expand their rental periods and drop late charges. Netflix offers the best time/rental solution.
/

I think the same for ipods. I'd pay cheap money to rent a movie to watch on the ipod on the plane (yah it's tiny, but flying stinks. I'm busy packing 24 hours before the flight, not downloading movies. What about my flight back a few days later? Sorry, movies have timed out.
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post #56 of 87
12/30/07 at 5:14pm
instead of 24hrs i'd like to see number of complete viewings. i use netflix for the convenience of watching when i want and a few times.
how about 3 complete viewings over say a week
24hrs is lame and i won't do it as my primary video rental agent

it's got to compete with netflix period
i've got kids and they watch a movie 50 times so for kids movies i will use netflix
if itunes rental to succeed for me it;s got to be family friendly
or say $15 monthly for say up to 5 movies.per month
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post #57 of 87
12/30/07 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjones View Post

$2 for 24 hours? With the Walmart RedBox at only $0.99 per day, it won't be very appealing except maybe for the older movies that have moved out of the RedBox.

Not leaving your home could be a slight advantage I guess, but Walmart for me is less than a 5 minute drive.

haha americans. you never add the cost of petrol do you? or your grandchildrens' lives?
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post #58 of 87
12/30/07 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahaja View Post

haha americans. you never add the cost of petrol do you?

For us, it's just gas.....
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post #59 of 87
12/30/07 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Ever try a HHD plus DVD recorder? it records the programme to HDD then when you are sure you have a viable recording that you want to archive you burn it to DVD. Panasonic do a few of these, as do Sony and Samsung.

Alternatively the Elgato EyeTV will record to your mac mini.

Yeah, I'm aware of some ways I could cobble together a device to do what I want. My frustration is that a company has yet to deliver an off the shelf product that does this. It seems the natural evolution of things, a VCR-like DVR, but I think most companies are too greedy. They want a permanent revenue stream and therefore want us to "subscribe" to get this.

I just figured that Apple would be the perfect company to do this. With high product margins, Apple could make a MacMini DVR that could do it all (connect to the internet for streaming TV, use iTunes for TV shows and movies purchased; allow manual or programmed recording; & allow me to use my TV as my computer with a small, compact and attactive device).

Anyhow, despite the obvious product potential, I expect this will not come along for awhile. But I just can't understand what they were thinking with AppleTV when they could have gone this route instead.
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post #60 of 87
12/30/07 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post

Isn't that what I said? Uncompressed HD (248.58 MBytes/sec) at uncompressed SD data Rates (27.97 MBytes/sec).

Though I think the parallel I'm looking for is H264 HD at H264 SD data rate.

ProRes422 is in a completely different league and I don't think has anything to do with H.264.
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post #61 of 87
12/30/07 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'm sorry about your frustrations, but that is only one way DVD might be worse than VCR. You didn't say what else about DVD is inferior.

I don't use real-time DVD recording, it's often a waste of a DVD anyway.

Well DVD is obviously better for playing. Especially with the upconverting DVD players. But when it comes to recording, there are many deficiencies. I believe I actually listed 4, not 1.
1 - takes to long to power up, 2 - takes too long to pause, 3 - cannot switch stations while paused (i.e. record on the fly, and 4 - they often result in corrupted discs (especially with -R/+R discs, I have had better luck with the RW discs, but only if I buy Sony or Memorex for some reason). I've tried about 12 different brands but those are the only two that have been consistently successful at recording, and even then its only the +/-RW discs.

But as long as the industry believes that it can convince us to pay more for a product that they do not have to store in warehouses, do not have to ship to retailers, do not have to package with materials and do not have to physically manufacture... as long as they think that, the DVD will not die because it is ultimately a superior product to the digitial copy. A digital movie usually does not come in HD, and cannot be upconverted like regular non-HD DVDs can. A digital movie does not include the menus and the special features of a DVD and a digital movie can be corrupted or deleted. Besides, they want you to pay as much to rent in for 24 hours as you can to purchase it. At least the video store gives you 3-5 days to watch it!!!

The minor convenience of being able to download a movie is more than offset by the decrease in cost to the distribution company and therefore should not be used as an excuse to over charge customers.
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post #62 of 87
12/31/07 at 12:36am
If they're not at least 720p quality movie rentals, Apple shouldn't even bother. Anyone who's serious about renting movies will want to watch them on their television, which will require the purchase of a $300 Apple TV, which only works with HDTVs, where current iTunes video looks craptacular. Oh, and if they don't implement some kind of instant-on streaming capability, then your 24 hour limit ought not begin until the download completes; for some people their 24 hours would be up before their 1-7GB film ever finished downloading.
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post #63 of 87
12/31/07 at 1:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

If they're not at least 720p quality movie rentals, Apple shouldn't even bother. Anyone who's serious about renting movies will want to watch them on their television, which will require the purchase of a $300 Apple TV, which only works with HDTVs, where current iTunes video looks craptacular. Oh, and if they don't implement some kind of instant-on streaming capability, then your 24 hour limit ought not begin until the download completes; for some people their 24 hours would be up before their 1-7GB film ever finished downloading.

1) Current iTunes Store video looks just as good as a non-upconverting DVD player on an HDTV though and AppleTV. Through an iPod plugged into via composite video, not so much.
2) You don't need an HDTV to use an AppleTV just a TV with component video cables (or any TV if you want to by a junction box).
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post #64 of 87
12/31/07 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There are many reasons why HD optical media isn't being adopted quickly:

DVDs suit most people's needs
Upconverting DVD players are cheaper than HD optical players while offering better quality than DVD
HD optical players are still too expensive for most people
The HD optical media war shows no clear winner which makes people afraid of buying into a dead-end futureless technology


I think the last reason also currently applies to video downloads even more than physical media. Look at how many completely incompatible sources there currently are:

Amazon Unbox (PC's and TiVo's only)
iTunes Store (PC/Mac/Apple portable players only)
XBox 360 Marketplace (XBox 360 only?)

And then there's all the ad-supported services like Joost and Hulu with all their varying compatibilities and most with no easy way to get to a TV.

It's a mess of formats that makes the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray format war look pretty simplistic. At least you can buy devices capable of playing both physical formats. You'll never see a Tivo unit that is capable of playing iTunes videos or an AppleTV playing XBox purchases.

This is really where the studios have to come together and create one standard format with one standard of DRM that can be licensed by any hardware/software manufacturer that so chooses. The public needs to know that they can buy downloads anywhere and watch on the device of their choosing.

This will also lead thing to a great thing called competition. Maybe some people consider $9.99 - $14.99 a fair price for movies from iTunes, but I look at the selection and a good deal of them you could go to Wal-Mart and find for less than that on DVD. For example, all the Star Trek movies are available for $7.50 each at Wal-Mart and are 2-disc sets; Why would I want to buy less than DVD-quality from iTunes or any other online store? I look at Amazon Unbox and see Spider-Man 1 & 2 are $5.99 each which strikes me as a much more reasonable price for what I'm getting. At the very least, that is less than the DVD price at Wal-Mart.

The way Appple currently runs the iTunes Store, I would hate to see them come out on top in the video download market since their prices are pretty much static and there are generally no sales or discounts to speak of ever. I can't imagine Apple ever doing any sort of K-Mart inspired Blue Light Specials, but just about every weekend Amazon has several movies for rent at 99 cents, generally fairly new releases as well. It's hard to argue with that price. Even if I don't get around towatching it before it expires, I don't mind because the price is right for what I'm paying for. Could anyone ever imagine Apple offering 99 cent rentals? I personally can't.
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post #65 of 87
12/31/07 at 5:25am
rentals is a convenience media after one drives to a theater, pays for parking, buys popcorn etc etc.. what the others lack is the customer base of portable video players.. end of story.. the "triple play" is coming soon.. it will be a plan to allow playback on the computer, the TV (ITV) and the ipod..

1.. it is a total solution for hardware choice
2. it will be user friendly as are all the other features of Itunes
3. there will be a long list of specialty "podcast" and "third world market" video selection that comes via a master catalog updated daily ..
4. there will be room for new creative talent to pursue selling movies via itunes
5. the simplicity of choice overshadows price .. maybe AI readers are penny pinchers who compare costs of things as cheap as a movie rental - but consumer electronics flourishes with impulse purchase ready vendors.. it might be as much as 50% or more of the business. How far will one go to rent a movie? Put finger tips on the key board wins.
6. rentals are a convenience to the enormous customer base as well as a competitive wealth protection of hardware format. the less vendors that participate the weaker the program.
7. Nobody has anything close to a triple play format for all three choices of how to watch. Nobody has a monopoly on video - and makes a good profit too. Nobody will be a monopoly on video because the studios are so greedy with so many extra hands in the pot that it will be a next generation solution that picks away at studio business until some small producers get their first big hits that are not introduced via the networks or big players. In the end the consumer will win and format will be universal in that it will be offered in various formats to all players. This is a software based next generation - there is not more single format DVD, CD, CASSETTE etc etc (looking back over time) that the studios can implement going forward. It just won't happen again.. THIS IS ALL ABOUT BEING ABLE TO OFFER A TOTAL SOLUTION VIA SOFTWARE THAT CAN BE UPDATED AT WILL - THIS IS ABOUT WANTING SOMETHING NOW AND HAVING IT AVAILABLE.. NOW. SOME FORMATS COME CLOSE = BUT APPLE HAS A TRIPLE PLAY FOR THEIR BASE OF APPLE USERS. NOBODY HAS ANYTHING CLOSE .. NO OTHER VENDER EVEN HAS A BASE OF HARDWARE USERS FOR THEIR GOODS AND SERVICES WORTH MENTIONING.
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post #66 of 87
12/31/07 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmann View Post

5. the simplicity of choice overshadows price .. maybe AI readers are penny pinchers who compare costs of things as cheap as a movie rental - but consumer electronics flourishes with impulse purchase ready vendors.. it might be as much as 50% or more of the business. How far will one go to rent a movie? Put finger tips on the key board wins.

You are right to a certain extent. The real problem is that Apple has to convince consumers to pony up for $300 AppleTV box in the first place. If download prices aren't attractive enough or is the selection broad enough or the quality isn't good enough then this won't be an easy task for Apple regardless of one-click convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmann View Post


7. Nobody has anything close to a triple play format for all three choices of how to watch.

Don't rule out Microsoft. Their Zune/XBOX 360/Windows strategy potentially could be more effective than Apple's (since the studios are very anti-Apple right now).

Apple has a lot of work to do to make the Apple an attractive, mass-accepted electronic device. If they fail to impress, the AppleTV may become the next Cube. January should be interesting....

Dave
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post #67 of 87
12/31/07 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahaja View Post

haha americans. you never add the cost of petrol do you?

That's because we pay half what you do for it, and most of us live in areas that don't have usable alternative public transportation to rely on...
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post #68 of 87
12/31/07 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Current iTunes Store video looks just as good as a non-upconverting DVD player on an HDTV though and AppleTV.
.

BS. Even Jobs repeatedly said the quality is "Near DVD " when it's really more like "near VHS". The movies on iTunes only look decent on an iPod because the screen is so small. I agree with the previous post that if it's not at least 720P- why bother?
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post #69 of 87
12/31/07 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmann View Post

rentals is a convenience media after one drives to a theater, pays for parking, buys popcorn etc etc.. what the others lack is the customer base of portable video players.. end of story.. the "triple play" is coming soon.. it will be a plan to allow playback on the computer, the TV (ITV) and the ipod..

1.. it is a total solution for hardware choice
2. it will be user friendly as are all the other features of Itunes
3. there will be a long list of specialty "podcast" and "third world market" video selection that comes via a master catalog updated daily ..
4. there will be room for new creative talent to pursue selling movies via itunes
5. the simplicity of choice overshadows price .. maybe AI readers are penny pinchers who compare costs of things as cheap as a movie rental - but consumer electronics flourishes with impulse purchase ready vendors.. it might be as much as 50% or more of the business. How far will one go to rent a movie? Put finger tips on the key board wins.
6. rentals are a convenience to the enormous customer base as well as a competitive wealth protection of hardware format. the less vendors that participate the weaker the program.
7. Nobody has anything close to a triple play format for all three choices of how to watch. Nobody has a monopoly on video - and makes a good profit too. Nobody will be a monopoly on video because the studios are so greedy with so many extra hands in the pot that it will be a next generation solution that picks away at studio business until some small producers get their first big hits that are not introduced via the networks or big players. In the end the consumer will win and format will be universal in that it will be offered in various formats to all players. This is a software based next generation - there is not more single format DVD, CD, CASSETTE etc etc (looking back over time) that the studios can implement going forward. It just won't happen again.. THIS IS ALL ABOUT BEING ABLE TO OFFER A TOTAL SOLUTION VIA SOFTWARE THAT CAN BE UPDATED AT WILL - THIS IS ABOUT WANTING SOMETHING NOW AND HAVING IT AVAILABLE.. NOW. SOME FORMATS COME CLOSE = BUT APPLE HAS A TRIPLE PLAY FOR THEIR BASE OF APPLE USERS. NOBODY HAS ANYTHING CLOSE .. NO OTHER VENDER EVEN HAS A BASE OF HARDWARE USERS FOR THEIR GOODS AND SERVICES WORTH MENTIONING.

IT HAS TO BE HIGH QUALITY AND DOWNLOAD INCREDIBLY FAST OR IT WILL FAIL.
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post #70 of 87
12/31/07 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

BS. Even Jobs repeatedly said the quality is "Near DVD " when it's really more like "near VHS". The movies on iTunes only look decent on an iPod because the screen is so small. I agree with the previous post that if it's not at least 720P- why bother?

I didn't say was as good, i said looks as good. One is an actual observation the other is not. I can't see any difference between my AppleTV on a 37" LG HDTV via HDMI or my DVD player via component. Is the AppleTV is doing anything to up-convert the video? I don't know; but my couch is about 10" from the TV and my eyesight is still keen.

DVD: Full D1 NTSC is 720 × 480 pixels
iTS Video: 640 x 480 pixels
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post #71 of 87
12/31/07 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

This doesn't sound right, 24 hours is not long enough. And what would be the motivation for keeping it so short? I remember renting videos from Blockbuster back in the day, and their new releases were just 24-hr rentals, because they wanted them back so other people could rent them. What's the point of limiting a digital download to 24 hours?

My thinking is that this rental service is like movies on demand for cable. You would rent the movie when you want to watch it. Disadvantage is if you wanted to watch it again, you really don't have much time within the 24-hr. period. There is no reason to rent the movie and wait a few days to watch it. In this case, there is room for this type of service and Netflix too.
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post #72 of 87
12/31/07 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post

My thinking is that this rental service is like movies on demand for cable. You would rent the movie when you want to watch it. Disadvantage is if you wanted to watch it again, you really don't have much time within the 24-hr. period. There is no reason to rent the movie and wait a few days to watch it. In this case, there is room for this type of service and Netflix too.

24 hours is fine for VOD services from cable companies but for watching on Apple's portable devices I can see how that time frame may be too short. If they do go with 24 hours they have it start from the time you start watching it not when you first download it, otherwise there will be a lot of pissed off iPod/iPhone customers... me included.
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post #73 of 87
12/31/07 at 9:52am
My predictions:
  • Movies will only have dolby surround at best. No proper ac3 multichannel.
  • They'll be distributed on a per region basis so as not to hurt DVD sales in non US territories.
  • The pricing for the UK will be at or above regular DVD rentals.
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post #74 of 87
12/31/07 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

24 hours is fine for VOD services from cable companies but for watching on Apple's portable devices I can see how that time frame may be too short. If they do go with 24 hours they have it start from the time you start watching it not when you first download it, otherwise there will be a lot of pissed off iPod/iPhone customers... me included.

Good point. I don't have an AppleTV and don't watch much video on my iPod but I would understand the disappointment. Starting the 24-hr. period from the time you watch it and not the download time is a good idea too.
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post #75 of 87
12/31/07 at 10:14am
Remember, Apple makes money here by selling hardware, not movies. The iPod/music pricing issue exemplifies this. Either Apple will change their strategy in the hopes of winning back content owners (sell Apple TV at breakeven and make $ on the rental) or they will make the ipod "play" all over again, wanting to sell Apple TVs and lots of them using movies as lost leaders.
Consider:
XBox probably loses cash on every sale, hoping to make it back on the games.
Apple TV actually makes money, probably, with a sale.

So what will make it better?

Speed:
Multicast, see recent article by Robert X Cringely. The amount of bits moved on the release day of "ratatouille" blows the doors off what the iTunes store can deliver. Perhaps they could be distributed in a ATV-to-ATV manner. This would be fast. Otherwise, they don't have a chance against cable companies.

Quality:
Why is it that ATV only hooks up to HDtV when the video it supplies isn't worthy of it? A change in the works?

Value:
I don't think they're going to be able to give away movie content like they did music. THe labels are smarter than that. Big media seems to be making money on DVD sales, despite hemorrhaging a fair amount with BitTorrent. Not a sector withering away like CD sales.

Experience:
Ease, but also tie-ins. Is apple TV ready to be a web browser as well? Go watch an episode of the OFFICE online at nbc.com... THere are all sorts of stupid contests to enter and tshirts and crap to buy, and chat about the show, etc. I personally dont' have the time for that stuff, but many do.
I seems to me that studios should be selling not only the movie but the trailers, the "making-of" featurette, the chat-room, the contests, all of that stuff. The movie is only incidental! They should be selling a community, an obsession, etc.
Make Apple TV the best way to sit on your couch and get your fix of Lost, complete with all the ancillary marketing, and then the industry might realize they have something better to sell through ATV than just TV.
Consider how insane the people who do fantasy football could get if they could sit on their couch and do all their research, see clips.
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post #76 of 87
12/31/07 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The HD optical media war shows no clear winner which makes people afraid of buying into a dead-end futureless technology[/INDENT]

Maybe this is why AppleTV isn't selling too well. From a consumer's point of view, this is just another format, playable only on AppleTV and computer. I am not very interested in watching movies on my computer.
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post #77 of 87
12/31/07 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

24 hours is fine for VOD services from cable companies but for watching on Apple's portable devices I can see how that time frame may be too short. If they do go with 24 hours they have it start from the time you start watching it not when you first download it, otherwise there will be a lot of pissed off iPod/iPhone customers... me included.

How big is the market for mobile video? I remember the study from a while back that said very little was spent watching videos on iPods (less than 2% of their time). Having owned a video-capable iPod for over a year I've only watched perhaps 2 full-length TV episodes. It has played in total probably 10 TV shows when it was hooked up a TV acting as a poor-man's TiVo.

Maybe I've just passed out of that range for mobile video as I suspect it would be larger with college-age and under users. But for the adult population, there's only 2 times I could see it being big, on a commute or during flights/layovers while traveling. The majority of people's commutes involves driving themselves to work, so that really just leaves travel which is a fairly short and specific even to most.

In the end, my point is do that many people really care about mobile video. Especially long videos like TV shows and movies? Who really has time for that?
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post #78 of 87
12/31/07 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

How big is the market for mobile video? I remember the study from a while back that said very little was spent watching videos on iPods (less than 2% of their time). Having owned a video-capable iPod for over a year I've only watched perhaps 2 full-length TV episodes. It has played in total probably 10 TV shows when it was hooked up a TV acting as a poor-man's TiVo.

Maybe I've just passed out of that range for mobile video as I suspect it would be larger with college-age and under users. But for the adult population, there's only 2 times I could see it being big, on a commute or during flights/layovers while traveling. The majority of people's commutes involves driving themselves to work, so that really just leaves travel which is a fairly short and specific even to most.

In the end, my point is do that many people really care about mobile video. Especially long videos like TV shows and movies? Who really has time for that?

There are many things to consider when determining the future of mobile video.

1) Is the device watchable?
Since getting my iPhone I spend a lot of time watching video. on it. I even purchase a great deal more video from iTS whereas i never did this with my 5.5G iPod w/ video. I can now wait for excessive amounts of time pretty much anywhere so long as my iPhone is companion. A 3G nano won't cu tit for me but may for someone else.

2) Is the content accessible?
While there will always be a segment of any market will prefer to steal, most people just want ease of use. Torrents and newsgroups provide ease of use once you understand how it works (there is a learning curve). If Apple can make rental simple enough and make the options for the mobile devices worthwhile then iTunes Rentals will work. Netflix becomes a complex, lengthy and illegal when you try to copy DVD content for your portable device.

3) If you build it, will they come?
The keynote in which jobs presented the first iPod shows a confused audience wondering how quickly they can sell their remaining Apple shares and put their C.V. somewhere else (speculation). It wasn't until the iPod mini came on the market that the iPod appealed to me whereas before that I had absolutely zero interest in such a device. It was short-sided on my part but I don't think I am alone. Apple has proven that you can create a market overnight where none once existed. But can they do with video rentals while kowtowing to the content owners?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #79 of 87
1/1/08 at 7:41am
Quote:
I don't know anyone who uses VHS anymore. If we could be able to rent movies.

I do for the simple rerason DVDs are a pain in the arse, you get the slightest mark on them, which its impossible not to and they refuse to work and the picture quality is no different to VHS, despite all the signing and dancing adverts when they first came out.

Plus, you're buying into the studios draconian DRM control
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post #80 of 87
1/1/08 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

I do for the simple rerason DVDs are a pain in the arse, you get the slightest mark on them, which its impossible not to and they refuse to work and the picture quality is no different to VHS, despite all the signing and dancing adverts when they first came out.

Plus, you're buying into the studios draconian DRM control

1) Optical media do work with scratches. Many scratches can be repaired and if you keep them in the case between viewings they can last a very long time, unlike tape video which wears out from excessive viewings.

2) DVD DRM was broken a long time ago. There are free programs that will re-encode DVD MPEG-2 files to other video formats.

3) VHS quality is not the same to DVD, but on an SDTV over an composite or S-Video connection you may not be able to tell the difference.

Some items for comparison (emphasis mine):

Analog:
350×240 (260 lines): Video CD

330×480 (250 lines): Umatic, Betamax, VHS, Video8
400×480 (300 lines): Super Betamax, Betacam (pro)
440×480 (330 lines): analog broadcast
560×480 (420 lines): LaserDisc, Super VHS, Hi8
670×480 (500 lines): Enhanced Definition Betamax

Digital:
720×480 (520 lines): D-VHS, DVD, miniDV, Digital8, Digital Betacam (pro)
720×480 (400 lines): Widescreen DVD (anamorphic)
1280×720 (720 lines): D-VHS, HD DVD, Blu-ray, HDV (miniDV)
1440×1080 (810 lines): HDV (miniDV)
1920×1080 (1080 lines): D-VHS, HD DVD, Blu-ray, HDCAM SR (pro)
(source)
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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