You are all retarded, stop talking about psychedelics. Psychedelics are lame as fuck, and only for people who are mentally disable. Smoke Meth Homies, weed is gross and hurts your body.
So what does "know you" mean and why does it matter to you? Heh, do you have to be in my presence for it to count? Come over here, have a drink with me, and I'll tell you the same exact thing. So will Steve Jobs, after all, he's said to to people who are publicly documenting his life. What difference does it make whether you hang out with him or not? You think he tells the people he hangs out with that he didn't consider it to be one of the most important things he's done? Haha! Right, he goes around just making that shit up. And actually, if you ask people who do/did "hang" with him (e.g. Woz), they'll tell you the same thing.
So... please, I'm struggling to understand your point. Or are you simply trying to tell us that you are trying your hardest to put your fingers in your ears?
What? I sense you haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
I'm sure you know my mind quite well, better than me even. Why, you must "know me" well then!
It's ironic that from what you've said, without any acid to "delude" you, you do not appear to possess the slightest shred of rationality about you. I can assure you sir, that quite often someone who is on a psychedelic is far more lucid and aware of the reality going on around them than those who are sober. This may not always be the case, just as it isn't always the case that "sober" people are "rational", but there is in psychedelics an incredible potential for doing exactly what you believe to be impossible, and that is not just expanding your mind, but totally obliterating it, in the best of possible ways. Some people need to have their minds obliterated, I know I did, and I'm quite grateful for it.
Someone who has not actually experienced such a thing would have no idea of what I am talking about, just in the same way as someone who has never experienced fire, or any other unique experience, can truly understand it without having first experienced it themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itistoday
So what does "know you" mean and why does it matter to you? Heh, do you have to be in my presence for it to count? Come over here, have a drink with me, and I'll tell you the same exact thing. So will Steve Jobs, after all, he's said to to people who are publicly documenting his life. What difference does it make whether you hang out with him or not? You think he tells the people he hangs out with that he didn't consider it to be one of the most important things he's done? Haha! Right, he goes around just making that shit up. And actually, if you ask people who do/did "hang" with him (e.g. Woz), they'll tell you the same thing.
So... please, I'm struggling to understand your point. Or are you simply trying to tell us that you are trying your hardest to put your fingers in your ears?
What? I sense you haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
I'm sure you know my mind quite well, better than me even. Why, you must "know me" well then!
It's ironic that from what you've said, without any acid to "delude" you, you do not appear to possess the slightest shred of rationality about you. I can assure you sir, that quite often someone who is on a psychedelic is far more lucid and aware of the reality going on around them than those who are sober. This may not always be the case, just as it isn't always the case that "sober" people are "rational", but there is in psychedelics an incredible potential for doing exactly what you believe to be impossible, and that is not just expanding your mind, but totally obliterating it, in the best of possible ways. Some people need to have their minds obliterated, I know I did, and I'm quite grateful for it.
Someone who has not actually experienced such a thing would have no idea of what I am talking about, just in the same way as someone who has never experienced fire, or any other unique experience, can truly understand it without having first experienced it themselves.
Please. All I know is a person signs in the username itistoday and posts. I don't even know it is the same person, when it boils down to it. Is that rational enough for you? You actually do not know if I am a "sir," "madam," or in transition, for that matter. You don't know what I look like. You don't know if I murdered my sister and hid her under the floorboards and assumed her identity. Is the concept of "not knowing" someone clear to you now?
My point? I simply don't believe that LSD is good for your mind - period. Not even in small doses. It may not significantly harm most people in small doses. I believe anyone saying their mind is enhanced by it is speaking nonsense, regardless of what they believe themselves or their motivations. This is based on my own first hand observations of other people. Seeing these people did not make me want to try LSD, even if they found it pleasant, and not all did. I clearly saw that they were impaired, not enhanced. Now, what WOULD NOT be rational is for me to try it after seeing this.
Is that clear enough for you?
No one likely cares what either of us says. Arguing with strangers you can't see is pointless, as any adult knows, but we do it anyway. Clearly, there young people are posting here that have not yet seen that drugs can damage people's health or lives. Clearly, they are 10 feet tall and bulletproof. They have my opinion to counter yours, to ignore or listen to as they wish.
You said you did LSD because you wanted to obliterate your mind, maybe because guns were being fired at you. My sympathy, if that was the case, but that doesn't sound like a rational decision to me.
You also said you don't do it anymore, ie you quit "expanding" your mind. There must be a reason you do not, even though you found it enhanced your mind. If I found something that truly enhanced my mind, I'd do it every day.
As a rational person, I fully realize you may be laughing and enjoying the responses from other posters such as me. The expression is "troll." Well, you can see I've jeered and laughed at you in some posts, even though I didn't always notice it was you .. Er... excuse me, posted as "itistoday." So fair enough if that is the case! I can't say I haven't got some kicks from your posts, even if that wasn't your intention.
i know computer programmers twice my age (i'm in my 30's) that partake, investors, ceos, owners of multi million dollar apparel companies
my own boss has literally made hundreds of millions of dollars, guess what he is smoking along with his coffee in the morning on until it's time for wine with dinner? it's not that tobacco stuff that kills so many...it's my state's #1 export crop
Yeah, a lot of people do it. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt them. As many people are damaged purely by the smoke as by the burn out factor. Holding smoke in your lungs definitely is not good for them. If you haven't seen a burned out pothead, you don't get out much for the worldly drugged out guy you claim to be.
I could care less what you do. You didn't seem to understand the connection between drugs, health and laws.
That's funny, I know someone who smokes pot every day, probably multiple times a day, and I would be willing to bet her intelligence is at least comparable to yours.
While I don't advocate smoking pot every day, I have no intention of telling her she should stop, as she seems completely lucid as to her likely dependence on it, and is totally fine with that. Shigata ga nai.
That would be very foolish bet, as you don't know anything about me. Bet she doesn't have a job. Keep that dumb bitch off the highway!
i know computer programmers twice my age (i'm in my 30's) that partake, investors, ceos, owners of multi million dollar apparel companies
my own boss has literally made hundreds of millions of dollars, guess what he is smoking along with his coffee in the morning on until it's time for wine with dinner? it's not that tobacco stuff that kills so many...it's my state's #1 export crop
Anything can be harmful in the wrong amounts, unfortunately any amount of illegal drugs is harmful.
This really sounds rather simplistic. Why would "any amount" of anything automatically be "harmful"?
Where's MT's response to that specific question?
Quote:
Sure, one tab of acid can kill you (if you decide to jump off a window ledge), but that hardly means that everybody who takes one tab of LSD is going to be harmed? That's pretty silly.
Sounds like scare tactic anti-drug propaganda. And we know how successful that's been at convincing people not to (ab)use illegal substances. \
Physically and mentally, I experienced more harm and trauma being mugged while traveling than on/from a journey taken after ingesting a psychoactive substance in a comfortable, safe, supportive environment. Was it obvious if traveling or psycho-journeying would be the most hazardously risky?
Life's undeniably risky. Risk of harm isn't a successful deterrent to engaging in activities under certain (preferably well-chosen) conditions. Most of us live our experiences within boundaries of harm reduction, not harm elimination.
Quote:
People react differently to different substances
Exactly. Insert your favorite "one person's heaven is another's hell" cliché.
Naive overgeneralizations about effects and experiences can be hazardous, in multiple ways.
Quote:
It's also interesting to research how so-called primitive cultures handle substances
Glad you mentioned that; it crossed my mind, too. They can show more respect towards substances (which aren't "illegal" to their culture) and appropriate "set and setting", eschewing reckless usage and behavior. That doesn't imply immunity to problems, though.
Quote:
So, sure, abuse of anything is harmful, but "any amount of illegal drugs is harmful" is not an adequate argument.
I certainly haven't seen any definitive evidence to back that claim.
Clearly (to me) there hasn't been enough research/study of some of these substances, like the LSD-assisted psychotherapy that Albert Hoffman had hoped Steve Jobs' would support, to have gained a sufficient level of understanding to make certain conclusive statements about them.
I know and have deep respect for some honest, sincere people seriously undertaking to further humanity's understanding of both the benefits and harm of various illicit substances, remaining aware of risks while potentially unlocking mysteries for unforeseen value. Statements like "any amount of illegal drugs is harmful" are a sad, shallow mockery of their work.
Whoever said pot is not physically addictive was wrong. It is, but, not nearly as addictive as, say, tobacco or alcohol. If you smoke pot on a regular basis and quit cold-turkey, you will feel the symptoms of withdrawal: anxiety, crankiness, difficulty sleeping, loss of appetite, to name a few. Nothing worse than kicking a caffeine habit. But, it IS physically addictive.
Now, why pot is illegal when tobacco, caffeine and alcohol are not is kind of stupid. They are in the same category. Of the four, alcohol causes far more health problems, accidents and fatalities even in countries where pot is legal.
I do not condone driving under the influence of anything, however, if I had a choice, I'd rather be on the road with a pot smoker than an alcoholic. Pot smokers tend to be slower and more careful, however, drunk people tend to be aggressive and out of control.
It's ironic that elected leaders think prohibition of a certain chemical or substance will reduce use of that chemical substance. In fact, it has the complete OPPOSITE effect: people want it more! And in a society where most people are on some kind of "legal" pharmaceutical, it's incredibly hypocritical to demonize something like pot while popping Oxycontin, a very toxic and highly addictive chemical.
Humans have been ingesting "drugs" since the beginning. It will never stop no matter how hard some people try to stop it.
Comments
So what does "know you" mean and why does it matter to you? Heh, do you have to be in my presence for it to count? Come over here, have a drink with me, and I'll tell you the same exact thing. So will Steve Jobs, after all, he's said to to people who are publicly documenting his life. What difference does it make whether you hang out with him or not? You think he tells the people he hangs out with that he didn't consider it to be one of the most important things he's done? Haha! Right, he goes around just making that shit up. And actually, if you ask people who do/did "hang" with him (e.g. Woz), they'll tell you the same thing.
So... please, I'm struggling to understand your point. Or are you simply trying to tell us that you are trying your hardest to put your fingers in your ears?
What? I sense you haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
I'm sure you know my mind quite well, better than me even. Why, you must "know me" well then!
It's ironic that from what you've said, without any acid to "delude" you, you do not appear to possess the slightest shred of rationality about you. I can assure you sir, that quite often someone who is on a psychedelic is far more lucid and aware of the reality going on around them than those who are sober. This may not always be the case, just as it isn't always the case that "sober" people are "rational", but there is in psychedelics an incredible potential for doing exactly what you believe to be impossible, and that is not just expanding your mind, but totally obliterating it, in the best of possible ways. Some people need to have their minds obliterated, I know I did, and I'm quite grateful for it.
Someone who has not actually experienced such a thing would have no idea of what I am talking about, just in the same way as someone who has never experienced fire, or any other unique experience, can truly understand it without having first experienced it themselves.
So what does "know you" mean and why does it matter to you? Heh, do you have to be in my presence for it to count? Come over here, have a drink with me, and I'll tell you the same exact thing. So will Steve Jobs, after all, he's said to to people who are publicly documenting his life. What difference does it make whether you hang out with him or not? You think he tells the people he hangs out with that he didn't consider it to be one of the most important things he's done? Haha! Right, he goes around just making that shit up. And actually, if you ask people who do/did "hang" with him (e.g. Woz), they'll tell you the same thing.
So... please, I'm struggling to understand your point. Or are you simply trying to tell us that you are trying your hardest to put your fingers in your ears?
What? I sense you haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
I'm sure you know my mind quite well, better than me even. Why, you must "know me" well then!
It's ironic that from what you've said, without any acid to "delude" you, you do not appear to possess the slightest shred of rationality about you. I can assure you sir, that quite often someone who is on a psychedelic is far more lucid and aware of the reality going on around them than those who are sober. This may not always be the case, just as it isn't always the case that "sober" people are "rational", but there is in psychedelics an incredible potential for doing exactly what you believe to be impossible, and that is not just expanding your mind, but totally obliterating it, in the best of possible ways. Some people need to have their minds obliterated, I know I did, and I'm quite grateful for it.
Someone who has not actually experienced such a thing would have no idea of what I am talking about, just in the same way as someone who has never experienced fire, or any other unique experience, can truly understand it without having first experienced it themselves.
Please. All I know is a person signs in the username itistoday and posts. I don't even know it is the same person, when it boils down to it. Is that rational enough for you? You actually do not know if I am a "sir," "madam," or in transition, for that matter. You don't know what I look like. You don't know if I murdered my sister and hid her under the floorboards and assumed her identity. Is the concept of "not knowing" someone clear to you now?
My point? I simply don't believe that LSD is good for your mind - period. Not even in small doses. It may not significantly harm most people in small doses. I believe anyone saying their mind is enhanced by it is speaking nonsense, regardless of what they believe themselves or their motivations. This is based on my own first hand observations of other people. Seeing these people did not make me want to try LSD, even if they found it pleasant, and not all did. I clearly saw that they were impaired, not enhanced. Now, what WOULD NOT be rational is for me to try it after seeing this.
Is that clear enough for you?
No one likely cares what either of us says. Arguing with strangers you can't see is pointless, as any adult knows, but we do it anyway. Clearly, there young people are posting here that have not yet seen that drugs can damage people's health or lives. Clearly, they are 10 feet tall and bulletproof. They have my opinion to counter yours, to ignore or listen to as they wish.
You said you did LSD because you wanted to obliterate your mind, maybe because guns were being fired at you. My sympathy, if that was the case, but that doesn't sound like a rational decision to me.
You also said you don't do it anymore, ie you quit "expanding" your mind. There must be a reason you do not, even though you found it enhanced your mind. If I found something that truly enhanced my mind, I'd do it every day.
As a rational person, I fully realize you may be laughing and enjoying the responses from other posters such as me. The expression is "troll." Well, you can see I've jeered and laughed at you in some posts, even though I didn't always notice it was you .. Er... excuse me, posted as "itistoday." So fair enough if that is the case! I can't say I haven't got some kicks from your posts, even if that wasn't your intention.
seriously
i know computer programmers twice my age (i'm in my 30's) that partake, investors, ceos, owners of multi million dollar apparel companies
my own boss has literally made hundreds of millions of dollars, guess what he is smoking along with his coffee in the morning on until it's time for wine with dinner? it's not that tobacco stuff that kills so many...it's my state's #1 export crop
Yeah, a lot of people do it. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt them. As many people are damaged purely by the smoke as by the burn out factor. Holding smoke in your lungs definitely is not good for them. If you haven't seen a burned out pothead, you don't get out much for the worldly drugged out guy you claim to be.
I could care less what you do. You didn't seem to understand the connection between drugs, health and laws.
That's funny, I know someone who smokes pot every day, probably multiple times a day, and I would be willing to bet her intelligence is at least comparable to yours.
While I don't advocate smoking pot every day, I have no intention of telling her she should stop, as she seems completely lucid as to her likely dependence on it, and is totally fine with that. Shigata ga nai.
That would be very foolish bet, as you don't know anything about me. Bet she doesn't have a job. Keep that dumb bitch off the highway!
seriously
i know computer programmers twice my age (i'm in my 30's) that partake, investors, ceos, owners of multi million dollar apparel companies
my own boss has literally made hundreds of millions of dollars, guess what he is smoking along with his coffee in the morning on until it's time for wine with dinner? it's not that tobacco stuff that kills so many...it's my state's #1 export crop
You obviously work at AIG or Countrywide.
keep on stereotypin'
i can play that game too mr. guy from texas, drive through liquor stores anyone? hey guys, it's "legal" so alcohol must NOT be "bad" for you...
Sterotype? Game? You were bragging about doing every drug under the sun ... keep focused.
I don't know if any drive through liquor stores in Texas. Even if it is, it is still illegal to drink in the car.
Originally Posted by MacTripper
Anything can be harmful in the wrong amounts, unfortunately any amount of illegal drugs is harmful.
This really sounds rather simplistic. Why would "any amount" of anything automatically be "harmful"?
Where's MT's response to that specific question?
Sure, one tab of acid can kill you (if you decide to jump off a window ledge), but that hardly means that everybody who takes one tab of LSD is going to be harmed? That's pretty silly.
Sounds like scare tactic anti-drug propaganda. And we know how successful that's been at convincing people not to (ab)use illegal substances.
Physically and mentally, I experienced more harm and trauma being mugged while traveling than on/from a journey taken after ingesting a psychoactive substance in a comfortable, safe, supportive environment. Was it obvious if traveling or psycho-journeying would be the most hazardously risky?
Life's undeniably risky. Risk of harm isn't a successful deterrent to engaging in activities under certain (preferably well-chosen) conditions. Most of us live our experiences within boundaries of harm reduction, not harm elimination.
People react differently to different substances
Exactly. Insert your favorite "one person's heaven is another's hell" cliché.
Naive overgeneralizations about effects and experiences can be hazardous, in multiple ways.
It's also interesting to research how so-called primitive cultures handle substances
Glad you mentioned that; it crossed my mind, too. They can show more respect towards substances (which aren't "illegal" to their culture) and appropriate "set and setting", eschewing reckless usage and behavior. That doesn't imply immunity to problems, though.
So, sure, abuse of anything is harmful, but "any amount of illegal drugs is harmful" is not an adequate argument.
I certainly haven't seen any definitive evidence to back that claim.
Clearly (to me) there hasn't been enough research/study of some of these substances, like the LSD-assisted psychotherapy that Albert Hoffman had hoped Steve Jobs' would support, to have gained a sufficient level of understanding to make certain conclusive statements about them.
I know and have deep respect for some honest, sincere people seriously undertaking to further humanity's understanding of both the benefits and harm of various illicit substances, remaining aware of risks while potentially unlocking mysteries for unforeseen value. Statements like "any amount of illegal drugs is harmful" are a sad, shallow mockery of their work.
Drugs are bad mmmkay?
Positive Drug Story #1,216,001: Golfing on E : Narco Polo
I've tried them all ?
TiHKAL & PiHKAL are strong counter-arguments.
? and I speak from experience as you can see from the depth of knowledge in my posts.
Apparently accumulating plenty of hubris along the way.
Now, why pot is illegal when tobacco, caffeine and alcohol are not is kind of stupid. They are in the same category. Of the four, alcohol causes far more health problems, accidents and fatalities even in countries where pot is legal.
I do not condone driving under the influence of anything, however, if I had a choice, I'd rather be on the road with a pot smoker than an alcoholic. Pot smokers tend to be slower and more careful, however, drunk people tend to be aggressive and out of control.
It's ironic that elected leaders think prohibition of a certain chemical or substance will reduce use of that chemical substance. In fact, it has the complete OPPOSITE effect: people want it more! And in a society where most people are on some kind of "legal" pharmaceutical, it's incredibly hypocritical to demonize something like pot while popping Oxycontin, a very toxic and highly addictive chemical.
Humans have been ingesting "drugs" since the beginning. It will never stop no matter how hard some people try to stop it.