He mentioned that he was in the airport and was about to board so maybe this is why.
Yeah, I know. But my experience is that people who are so busy don't have to time to engage in gab with posters on a forum like this. That's why I wondered if he said what he wanted to, and will not return.
When I had my own company, I had much less time for this.
Yeah, I know. But my experience is that people who are so busy don't have to time to engage in gab with posters on a forum like this. That's why I wondered if he said what he wanted to, and will not return.
When I had my own company, I had much less time for this.
I got no time now. Got to be up in 5 hours for work.
Profitability, if Nokia's claimed 41% of "Smartphone" sales includes low priced handsets like the 6210 (which is still selling, we have them here as a prepaid bundle) then obviously the 41% share is fairly meaningless if Nokia is not making much money out of it.
Apple may only have 1% of the market but wait and see how much money they are pulling out of that 1%, money that is not going to Nokia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodyfanning
So, what does that have to do with it? A smartphone is a smartphone. It doesn't have to have a touchscreen.
You do know that Nokia put most of its competitors out of business by driving the price down faster than most could possibly keep up with?
You do know that most Nokia phones are free on contract everywhere else in the world?. The 5800 is already significantly cheaper than any iPhone?
You do realise what will happen once they get really warmed up?
Profitability, if Nokia's claimed 41% of "Smartphone" sales includes low priced handsets like the 6210 (which is still selling, we have them here as a prepaid bundle) then obviously the 41% share is fairly meaningless if Nokia is not making much money out of it.
Apple may only have 1% of the market but wait and see how much money they are pulling out of that 1%, money that is not going to Nokia.
Who care? Don't you get it? There is still enough money for Apple and Nokia. Only someone with a myopic world view would expect Apple or Nokia to get 100% of market share.
Who care? Don't you get it? There is still enough money for Apple and Nokia. Only someone with a myopic world view would expect Apple or Nokia to get 100% of market share.
OOH! 100% marketshare. I've had that with a number of things I've built. But then, I was the only one making those things.
While the cell phone market is shrinking during the recession, the smartphone sales are still moving up, though more slowly.
When smartphone sales reach 75% of the overall market, as they are predicted to eventually do, that will be well over a billion phones a year in sales.
That's a lot of smartphones folks! Room enough for almost everyone.
Apple never said that they expected to dominate the category, just to get 10% which would then mean more than 100 million phones a year. They will likely do better than 10%, but where it will end is something no one knows.
What exactly does the "converged device market" mean? In the 2009 2Q they simply said "smartphone".
Nokia seems to use the two terms interchangeably. Don't forget that they went through a phase of referring to their smartphones as "multimedia computers" rather than phones too.
Obviously as this thread is about the profitability of Nokia, quite a few people.
Now have they got Skype (of the february partnership announcement by Nokia and Skype) working on your N97 yet?
QuickOffice is also slow to produce an S60v5 version of their software, if you want to edit word and excel files, I suggest you don't let go of your S60v3 E75 just yet, either that or install QuickOffice on an iPhone, it's in the App store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns
Who care? Don't you get it? There is still enough money for Apple and Nokia. Only someone with a myopic world view would expect Apple or Nokia to get 100% of market share.
The general concept is a phone that has a large, good resolution screen, can access the internet easily, and well, can also access data and mail, and can install, and use various fairly sophisticated programs. I would think that it would also include syncing to a computer, or other device for backing up and adding new data.
That being my point. Do any of us seriously believe that Apple decided to build a device to compete with RIM and Nokia? Does Apple think that small? Was that the result? The point being, these categories are fundamentally meaningless, especially since we know that Apple likes to build game-changers, and I think we know that's what they did with the iPhone.
I don't think many of us are particularly against Nokia or want Nokia to fail. Most of us want healthy competition in the phone industry as it pushes everyone to improve.
The Nokia vs Apple debate started with the announcement of the iPhone in January 2007. Many Europeans would come on AI and list all of the features on Nokia phones and declare the iPhone inferior based on a feature list count. Many of us who defended Apple's choices were saying that Apple will slowly add features as the OS matures. Apple will only add features that can be integrated in an intuitive and easy to use way.
Now as the maturation of the iPhone OS comes, iPhone sales grow, it has proven Apple's choices correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi T Ahonen
Hello Apple Insiders
Very juicy discussion here, a bit heated but perhaps that was to be expected. I'm pretty sure for most Apple Insider members, Nokia is not a nice word ha-ha, hopefully not quite as nasty as say Microsoft?
I would say what largely blurs the line of these categories are the fact that many of the features that used to be exclusive to smartphone are being moved down to multimedia phones and basic phones.
What still differentiates smartphone's are sophisticated operating systems, sophisticated user interface, and sophisticated 3rd party apps. These are features that will not so easily be adopted by cheaper phones. And three area where the iPhone excels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
That being my point. Do any of us seriously believe that Apple decided to build a device to compete with RIM and Nokia? Does Apple think that small? Was that the result? The point being, these categories are fundamentally meaningless, especially since we know that Apple likes to build game-changers, and I think we know that's what they did with the iPhone.
What still differentiates smartphone's are sophisticated operating systems, sophisticated user interface, and sophisticated 3rd party apps. These are features that will not so easily be adopted by cheaper phones. And three area where the iPhone excels.
I think that is a good general definition, but we can't read it as absolution. I don't think S60 would be considered by many as being a sophisticed OS in comparison to newer mobile OSes even though it often can do more than some of these newer OSes, and the Pre would mostly fail on te 3rd-party app front as the SDK was just publically released with an app store planned for later this year and it still doesn't give its developers "sophisticated" access to the HW so the GPU and other HW are going unused by developers. Yet the N97 and Pre are, without question, smartphones.
The iPhone's OS and SDK are the most "intelligent" around at this moment but the iPhone is often still not called a smartphone because of the (arguablly) intelligent limitations Apple has put on developers and consumers to help sell the device as the best consumer-focused smartphone. As a shareholder, I hav seen a lot of people that have never had a smartphone or even considered one are now using an iPhone. I've also seen the whole smartphone market increase in general since the inclusion of the iPhone. Has Apple intelligently made a market for power-hungry business users and gadget-humping geeks cool with their consumer-focused device?
I don't care what you call it so long as I keep getting a better product every year and my stocks increase in value. I'll be keeping an eye on Nokia to see if they come up with something worthwhile for this revitalized market segment. I missed the boat on Palm earlier this year for the Pre announcement, I won't do the same with Nokia.
That being my point. Do any of us seriously believe that Apple decided to build a device to compete with RIM and Nokia? Does Apple think that small? Was that the result? The point being, these categories are fundamentally meaningless, especially since we know that Apple likes to build game-changers, and I think we know that's what they did with the iPhone.
I remember, quite clearly, that before the ver. 2.0 OS, and the App Store, Jobs stating that the iPhone was not a computer, was not a smartphone.
Back then, he was right. At best, it could be called a sophisticated "feature phone".
But I think that as these phones can do more and more, the category will move with them.
Comments
He mentioned that he was in the airport and was about to board so maybe this is why.
Yeah, I know. But my experience is that people who are so busy don't have to time to engage in gab with posters on a forum like this. That's why I wondered if he said what he wanted to, and will not return.
When I had my own company, I had much less time for this.
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...good_rolli.php
I posted a bunch of links in response to another post earlier ( the guy never responded to that). Should I post a bunch of links now?
Nahhh.... I have seen some of the reviews. For me, my phone works fine and is as fast as my friends iPhone, but that is me.
Yeah, I know. But my experience is that people who are so busy don't have to time to engage in gab with posters on a forum like this. That's why I wondered if he said what he wanted to, and will not return.
When I had my own company, I had much less time for this.
I got no time now. Got to be up in 5 hours for work.
Time to make the donuts.......
The debate has heated up on the other side of the Atlantic as well. From the halls of All About Symbian:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...good_rolli.php
Very interesting. I advise people on both sides of the issue here to read it.
The debate has heated up on the other side of the Atlantic as well. From the halls of All About Symbian:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...good_rolli.php
I like KPO?M?s comments.
Apple may only have 1% of the market but wait and see how much money they are pulling out of that 1%, money that is not going to Nokia.
So, what does that have to do with it? A smartphone is a smartphone. It doesn't have to have a touchscreen.
You do know that Nokia put most of its competitors out of business by driving the price down faster than most could possibly keep up with?
You do know that most Nokia phones are free on contract everywhere else in the world?. The 5800 is already significantly cheaper than any iPhone?
You do realise what will happen once they get really warmed up?
Profitability, if Nokia's claimed 41% of "Smartphone" sales includes low priced handsets like the 6210 (which is still selling, we have them here as a prepaid bundle) then obviously the 41% share is fairly meaningless if Nokia is not making much money out of it.
Apple may only have 1% of the market but wait and see how much money they are pulling out of that 1%, money that is not going to Nokia.
Who care? Don't you get it? There is still enough money for Apple and Nokia. Only someone with a myopic world view would expect Apple or Nokia to get 100% of market share.
I like KPO?M?s comments.
He is one of the more sane posters there. The mod lives up Mr. Nokia's butt.
You should also check out some of the Nokia forums. Lot's of action there. Surely this will get Nokia's attention.
Who care? Don't you get it? There is still enough money for Apple and Nokia. Only someone with a myopic world view would expect Apple or Nokia to get 100% of market share.
OOH! 100% marketshare. I've had that with a number of things I've built. But then, I was the only one making those things.
While the cell phone market is shrinking during the recession, the smartphone sales are still moving up, though more slowly.
When smartphone sales reach 75% of the overall market, as they are predicted to eventually do, that will be well over a billion phones a year in sales.
That's a lot of smartphones folks! Room enough for almost everyone.
Apple never said that they expected to dominate the category, just to get 10% which would then mean more than 100 million phones a year. They will likely do better than 10%, but where it will end is something no one knows.
He is one of the more sane posters there. The mod lives up Mr. Nokia's butt.
You should also check out some of the Nokia forums. Lot's of action there. Surely this will get Nokia's attention.
Hey, I thought you were making your donuts and going beddie bye?
What exactly does the "converged device market" mean? In the 2009 2Q they simply said "smartphone".
Nokia seems to use the two terms interchangeably. Don't forget that they went through a phase of referring to their smartphones as "multimedia computers" rather than phones too.
OOH! 100% marketshare. I've had that with a number of things I've built. But then, I was the only one making those things.
Black helicopters have been dispatched.
Now have they got Skype (of the february partnership announcement by Nokia and Skype) working on your N97 yet?
QuickOffice is also slow to produce an S60v5 version of their software, if you want to edit word and excel files, I suggest you don't let go of your S60v3 E75 just yet, either that or install QuickOffice on an iPhone, it's in the App store.
Who care? Don't you get it? There is still enough money for Apple and Nokia. Only someone with a myopic world view would expect Apple or Nokia to get 100% of market share.
We didn't know that before.
It's not defined that closely.
The general concept is a phone that has a large, good resolution screen, can access the internet easily, and well, can also access data and mail, and can install, and use various fairly sophisticated programs. I would think that it would also include syncing to a computer, or other device for backing up and adding new data.
That being my point. Do any of us seriously believe that Apple decided to build a device to compete with RIM and Nokia? Does Apple think that small? Was that the result? The point being, these categories are fundamentally meaningless, especially since we know that Apple likes to build game-changers, and I think we know that's what they did with the iPhone.
The Nokia vs Apple debate started with the announcement of the iPhone in January 2007. Many Europeans would come on AI and list all of the features on Nokia phones and declare the iPhone inferior based on a feature list count. Many of us who defended Apple's choices were saying that Apple will slowly add features as the OS matures. Apple will only add features that can be integrated in an intuitive and easy to use way.
Now as the maturation of the iPhone OS comes, iPhone sales grow, it has proven Apple's choices correct.
Hello Apple Insiders
Very juicy discussion here, a bit heated but perhaps that was to be expected. I'm pretty sure for most Apple Insider members, Nokia is not a nice word ha-ha, hopefully not quite as nasty as say Microsoft?
What still differentiates smartphone's are sophisticated operating systems, sophisticated user interface, and sophisticated 3rd party apps. These are features that will not so easily be adopted by cheaper phones. And three area where the iPhone excels.
That being my point. Do any of us seriously believe that Apple decided to build a device to compete with RIM and Nokia? Does Apple think that small? Was that the result? The point being, these categories are fundamentally meaningless, especially since we know that Apple likes to build game-changers, and I think we know that's what they did with the iPhone.
What still differentiates smartphone's are sophisticated operating systems, sophisticated user interface, and sophisticated 3rd party apps. These are features that will not so easily be adopted by cheaper phones. And three area where the iPhone excels.
I think that is a good general definition, but we can't read it as absolution. I don't think S60 would be considered by many as being a sophisticed OS in comparison to newer mobile OSes even though it often can do more than some of these newer OSes, and the Pre would mostly fail on te 3rd-party app front as the SDK was just publically released with an app store planned for later this year and it still doesn't give its developers "sophisticated" access to the HW so the GPU and other HW are going unused by developers. Yet the N97 and Pre are, without question, smartphones.
The iPhone's OS and SDK are the most "intelligent" around at this moment but the iPhone is often still not called a smartphone because of the (arguablly) intelligent limitations Apple has put on developers and consumers to help sell the device as the best consumer-focused smartphone. As a shareholder, I hav seen a lot of people that have never had a smartphone or even considered one are now using an iPhone. I've also seen the whole smartphone market increase in general since the inclusion of the iPhone. Has Apple intelligently made a market for power-hungry business users and gadget-humping geeks cool with their consumer-focused device?
I don't care what you call it so long as I keep getting a better product every year and my stocks increase in value. I'll be keeping an eye on Nokia to see if they come up with something worthwhile for this revitalized market segment. I missed the boat on Palm earlier this year for the Pre announcement, I won't do the same with Nokia.
Black helicopters have been dispatched.
My shields are up!
That being my point. Do any of us seriously believe that Apple decided to build a device to compete with RIM and Nokia? Does Apple think that small? Was that the result? The point being, these categories are fundamentally meaningless, especially since we know that Apple likes to build game-changers, and I think we know that's what they did with the iPhone.
I remember, quite clearly, that before the ver. 2.0 OS, and the App Store, Jobs stating that the iPhone was not a computer, was not a smartphone.
Back then, he was right. At best, it could be called a sophisticated "feature phone".
But I think that as these phones can do more and more, the category will move with them.