Worker commits suicide after iPhone prototype goes missing - reports

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  • Reply 81 of 176
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,861member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Pre-recession, the unemployment rate in the US has hovered between 4% and 6% - i.e., about 95% of the people looking for work in the US have generally found it. (Currently the rate is close to 10%, but that is because of the economic slowdown.)



    How does outsourcing explain that?



    It doesn't. Thats not what I said. Or, you misinterpreted what I said. I meant, build assembly plants in the US for Apple products like there used to be would be great for workers looking for jobs. And it would get Apple out of the Made in China crap.



    Apparently its a bad idea...everyone loves made in china shit in the US. So just never mind the idea....
  • Reply 82 of 176
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post


    I feel really bad for this employee



    Sad story .
  • Reply 83 of 176
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bryanhauer View Post


    Umm, he didn't "lose" his life... he "took" his own life which is a cowardly way out. Many people go through horrible experiences in their life. Killing yourself over a lost iPhone or even losing your job, becoming homeless etc aren't reasons to kill yourself.



    HUH



    He felt very bad. A great amount of shame. BUT he was no coward.
  • Reply 84 of 176
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    I'm glad you don't run anything with our country.... Your thinking is the prime reason we are in the position were in today.... But whatever...moving on.....



    Correct, the strongest country in the world (even given the current recession, happens every 10-14 years don't ya know) in the richest, most prosperous period in human history.



    Thank god the periods when your protectionist philosophy held sway in this country were brief and long ago. Though, this current fit of protectionism will surely hurt many people. It's a shame all students are not required to have a basic understanding of economics.
  • Reply 85 of 176
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,157member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    You agree with me about something? Hold the presses!



    Yes, some Chinese do lead better lives today, but many don't, especially in the rural areas where the government has reduced spending on education and health care, in order to drive more workers into the cities. The working conditions in the cities are very poor -- workers are effectively warehoused, and when they can't keep up with the pace and the conditions, they are fired. More are available to take their places. It's a brutal system.



    My alternative prescription to authoritarianism is a lack of authoritarianism. Democracy would be the prescription. An ability of people to protect themselves from exploitation.



    I agree with you more than you know.



    It is just that you sometimes overstate issues, and I occasionally point those out. For instance, in the post above, you make a number of claims that are problematic. Here's an example: You say "some" Chinese lead better lives, but "many" don't. Now, any reasonable person reading that might conclude - if the claim were true - that a majority of the Chinese don't lead better lives compared to a couple of decades ago. I'd venture a guess that such a claim is totally untrue, but when you say something like that, it would nice to see a cite. (Similarly, a cite for your claim that the Chinese government reduced spending on health and education in rural China so as to drive people to cities).



    OTOH, I agree with you that urban working conditions for a lot of hourly workers are poor, and the system of worker dorms - widely prevalent in the electronics industry there - can be brutal.
  • Reply 86 of 176
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    In my view Apple can't afford to be quiet about this.....not this time. Working conditions in Chinese factories is one thing but this is totally different.

    Apple had better react correctly on this one because someone just literally gave up their life over a damn prototype.....their prototype.
  • Reply 87 of 176
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Why don't they "make stuff here anymore"? Because we don't have a currency artificially pegged to the dollar... we have the dollar. Magically cut the cost of everything by 1/7th, then we'll talk.



    Not to mention the FACT that the USA is still the world's second/third (depending on the year recently) largest exporter.



    They make LOTS of stuff here, it's just the cheap stuff that, if we made it here (and sold it to our own citizens) would put more of those citizens below the poverty/hunger line because the goods sold in WalMart would be more expensive.



    Of course people who don't understand economics don't believe that having a manufacturing job go from Ohio to China could possibly make any American better off, but we shouldn't wonder at that lack of understanding any more than we wonder why a third grader can't understand chemistry.
  • Reply 88 of 176
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,861member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cameronj View Post


    Correct, the strongest country in the world (even given the current recession, happens every 10-14 years don't ya know) in the richest, most prosperous period in human history.



    Thank god the periods when your protectionist philosophy held sway in this country were brief and long ago. Though, this current fit of protectionism will surely hurt many people. It's a shame all students are not required to have a basic understanding of economics.



    Strongest country (debatable) owing the most money to other countries I will add in.....



    $740 BILLION owed to People's Republic of China alone!



    Over $3 TRILLION total owed to various countries!
  • Reply 89 of 176
    mknoppmknopp Posts: 257member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post


    Apple needs to quit making its products overseas. There is enough automation available to overcome the labor cost differences and manufacture the products at home, here in the US. The US government itself, needs to change the tax laws that allow companies like Apple to defer income taxes that result from manufacturing overseas. Companies such as Apple, Intel, use transfer pricing and do not pay any taxes in China and minimally in the US.



    Again, the profits are kept in some tax heaven. Occasionally, the government give out a tax holiday and the companies can repatriate with a minimal tax of may be 5-15%.



    Strategically, this kind of outsourcing transfer a lot of tech overseas. In the long run, this kind of thing comes to bite us. The huge supply chains, transfer of capital, manufacturing tech creates competition against us. It is giant sucking sound for American jobs.



    I have been told that the primary reason so few electronics are made in the US has less to do with taxes and wages than it does with the EPA. Apparently, making electronics is a nasty business with everything from heavy metals to carcinogens being prevalent. Making this in the US runs into expensive nightmare scenarios when dealing with the EPA. However, in many other countries there are little to no environmental regulation and worker safety isn't exactly the highest concern.



    However, I do agree with you that it would be nice if Apple moved their production somewhere else. To the US would be great, but there are other countries with great existing production facilities: Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, etc.
  • Reply 90 of 176
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I agree with you more than you know.



    It is just that you sometimes overstate issues, and I occasionally point those out. For instance, in the post above, you make a number of claims that are problematic. Here's an example: You say "some" Chinese lead better lives, but "many" don't. Now, any reasonable person reading that might conclude - if the claim were true - that a majority of the Chinese don't lead better lives compared to a couple of decades ago. I'd venture a guess that such a claim is totally untrue, but when you say something like that, it would nice to see a cite. .



    Is the Economist a sufficient source?



    God I wish everyone read it...



    http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ry_ID=12773135



    In the last 30 years, 200 million Chinese have been lifted above the poverty level.



    Boo, free trade.
  • Reply 91 of 176
    rnp1rnp1 Posts: 175member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post


    I fully agree. My Apple SE proudly says "Made in U.S.A." and it was made well; it still works. Why would we not be able to do this any more?



    Meanwhile, Rube and this George BlankenShitz just keep working at competitors and revealing Apple secrets to line their pockets!! Let's send some Yakusah to speak with them!
  • Reply 92 of 176
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,861member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    There's a reason I've never bought a foxconn motherboard actually. Oh, and there's plenty of decent phones out there. Expand your horizons.



    Depending on what Mac you have...it may or may not have been produced by Foxconn Industries.
  • Reply 93 of 176
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,157member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cameronj View Post


    Is the Economist a sufficient source?



    God I wish everyone read it...



    http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ry_ID=12773135



    In the last 30 years, 200 million Chinese have been lifted above the poverty level.



    Boo, free trade.



    Yeah, The Economist is usually a pretty good source. And, it is my view that mankind had devised few things that are more wealth-creating than trade between nations.



    Interestingly, the Gini Index of income inequality for China is about the same as that of the US (47 versus 45; Source: CIA World Factbook) - and both countries are in the bottom third, i.e., highly unequal!
  • Reply 94 of 176
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,743member
    Quite the issue for Foxconn.
  • Reply 95 of 176
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    It doesn't. Thats not what I said. Or, you misinterpreted what I said. I meant, build assembly plants in the US for Apple products like there used to be would be great for workers looking for jobs. And it would get Apple out of the Made in China crap.



    Apparently its a bad idea...everyone loves made in china shit in the US. So just never mind the idea....



    Unions are part of the problem. In the US, everyone demands benefits, coverage for everything under the sun, paid leave, sick leave, personal days, etc., etc. This is a widespread issue in North America. And guess who is paying for all these benefits and time off from work? We can no longer afford to maintain a North American manufacturing workforce. The Auto Workers' union being a prime example. What they did here in Canada is beyond ridiculous.



    Unions are incredibly powerful in North America, and the average person has an outrageous sense of entitlement, which really doesn't help matters.
  • Reply 96 of 176
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I agree with you more than you know.



    It is just that you sometimes overstate issues, and I occasionally point those out. For instance, in the post above, you make a number of claims that are problematic. Here's an example: You say "some" Chinese lead better lives, but "many" don't. Now, any reasonable person reading that might conclude - if the claim were true - that a majority of the Chinese don't lead better lives compared to a couple of decades ago. I'd venture a guess that such a claim is totally untrue, but when you say something like that, it would nice to see a cite. (Similarly, a cite for your claim that the Chinese government reduced spending on health and education in rural China so as to drive people to cities).



    OTOH, I agree with you that urban working conditions for a lot of hourly workers are poor, and the system of worker dorms - widely prevalent in the electronics industry there - can be brutal.



    The problem is, I've never seen you cite anything. All I've ever seen you do is criticize others for not citing sources, or criticize the source they do cite. Ironically, we are making the same point, which is that living and working conditions for factory workers in China are abominable. Workers are treated as expendable units. This is something most people don't know about China. But I need to cite my source for that, and you don't? Who made that rule?
  • Reply 97 of 176
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Unions are part of the problem. In the US, everyone demands benefits, coverage for everything under the sun, paid leave, sick leave, personal days, etc., etc. This is a widespread issue in North America. And guess who is paying for all these benefits and time off from work? We can no longer afford to maintain a North American manufacturing workforce. The Auto Workers' union being a prime example. What they did here in Canada is beyond ridiculous.



    Unions are incredibly powerful in North America, and the average person has an outrageous sense of entitlement, which really doesn't help matters.



    Talk about your broad generalization. You're comparing workers in the US, Europe and Canada with China and saying that the problem is that workers outside China get too much? How about the complete lack of labor protection laws elsewhere? Why is that not at least a part the problem?
  • Reply 98 of 176
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,108member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Unions are part of the problem. In the US, everyone demands benefits, coverage for everything under the sun, paid leave, sick leave, personal days, etc., etc. This is a widespread issue in North America. And guess who is paying for all these benefits and time off from work? We can no longer afford to maintain a North American manufacturing workforce. The Auto Workers' union being a prime example. What they did here in Canada is beyond ridiculous.



    Unions are incredibly powerful in North America, and the average person has an outrageous sense of entitlement, which really doesn't help matters.



    I'm against compulsory unionization for workers (ex: SAG, AFL-CIO, etc.). But voluntarily joining a union, I'm completely fine with that. Also, collective bargaining is a legitimate tool for workers to gain advantage in negotiations, HOWEVER it cannot guarantee employment when faced with new competitive pressures, such as a failing economy or foreign competition. I'm 100% against bailouts from the government to "save" businesses that have failed to stay competitive for whatever reason.
  • Reply 99 of 176
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I'm against compulsory unionization for workers (ex: SAG, AFL-CIO, etc.). But voluntarily joining a union, I'm completely fine with that. Also, collective bargaining is a legitimate tool for workers to gain advantage in negotiations, HOWEVER it cannot guarantee employment when faced with new competitive pressures, such as a failing economy or foreign competition. I'm 100% against bailouts from the government to "save" businesses that have failed to stay competitive for whatever reason.



    Unfortunately we have one of the most powerful unions, the teachers, which acts undermine any other industry we might want to grow. Since bad teachers cannot be fired, we can't create good students. Unions in and of themselves might be only fair, but the result when they become too powerful is that they help themselves to the rest of our taxes.



    This is precisely why the auto industry needed bailing out and the airline industry before it - these workers can't be fired and eventually an "important" industry becomes so weak that it must either be shut down (putting millions of those underskilled workers out of the jobs they so righteously deserve) or bailed out by me. I don't want my money given to workers who (through their union negotiators) are so unskilled and greedy that they hamstring the entire country, but unfortunately I don't have a choice.
  • Reply 100 of 176
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Talk about your broad generalization. You're comparing workers in the US, Europe and Canada with China and saying that the problem is that workers outside China get too much? How about the complete lack of labor protection laws elsewhere? Why is that not at least a part the problem?



    It helps to look at the dirt on your OWN doorstep first, before you criticize what's on everyone else's.



    We know about China and labour laws. That's a given. How about what we're doing right here at home? What are we doing to encourage the situtation? It all boils down to our consumerist attitudes and our sense of entitlement.



    If you think there is no problem, ask the average family to buy luxury items only when they can actually afford them instead of relying on credit. You'll get more than a few dirty looks. We're sick out of our tree when to comes to spending. Savings? No one has any. And kids grow up wanting Escalades and Xboxes ASAP. Parents want to give their children what they "never had", and measure their self worth in terms of providing an ever-increasing number of consumer goods to their children and families. A common result is a mountain of debt. No wonder accounts recovery (bill collecting) is a booming industry. I spent about 5 years in it. And these attitudes translate beautifully to what we expect in the workplace. Employers have become the industrial equivalent of sugardaddies. At some point this system will break down, and we're seeing it happen.
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