I'll dump my Netbook in favor of a touchscreen tablet. Wonder if we can dual boot Windows 7 on this bad boy... ?
Chris
There are strong rumors that this tablet will be based on ARM processors. In any event you don't seem to realize that a tablet isn't a substitute for a notebook. It is a different animal that could not be used properly with Windows 7 even if it had Intel inside.
I'm not trying to be negative here just that I see so many posts about a laptop being replaced with a tablet that I want to scream. I think many will be almost instantly disappointed if they are heavy laptop users. A repeat of AIR isn't needed, that is we don't need people running out and buying the thing only to sell at a huge loss three months later when they realize the unit doesn't fit their needs.
Frankly I don't think Apple can be successful marketing a tablet in the same way as a notebook gets marketed. That would lead to to many disappointed people once the device is in hand. The tablet will need it's own reason for being. We can guess at things such as video Ipod or e-book reading but I highly doubt success would be forth coming with as a spread sheet productivity machine. The simple reason is that input method isn't acceptable for mass text entry.
Frankly I don't think Apple can be successful marketing a tablet in the same way as a notebook gets marketed. That would lead to to many disappointed people once the device is in hand. The tablet will need it's own reason for being. We can guess at things such as video Ipod or e-book reading but I highly doubt success would be forth coming with as a spread sheet productivity machine. The simple reason is that input method isn't acceptable for mass text entry.
Dave
Consider:
You are on that vacation trip (train, plane or car). The kids are in the back seat(s) and each has his own personal device. One is watching a movie, another is playing a video game, the third is listening/watching streamed AV Albums or TV. Or they can all interact and share (tweets, walkie-talkie, multiplayer games, AV playlists).
Meanwhile your spouse, in the passenger seat, is reading a book/magazine, or monitoring trip schedules/travelog, or checking security/status at the home front.
You, the driver, are getting turn-by-turn instructions or heads-up of points of interest along the way.
Then, vacation over, we all go back to our daily routine (business data, presos, schedules, home records and management, sports, events, entertainment, school/college). Each of us needs to take our personal stuff with us, whether it be contacts or text books).
So, really, this is for much more than entertainment... it is for most of the things we do.
The interesting thing is that one device does all these things, tailored to your / my specific needs, in any setting, at any time.
--personal TV, music player, movie player, game player; ad nauseam.
Who, in the family, wouldn't need/use his own, personal, one of these and the services it provides? Even, the baby would have one, on the wall, to monitor his well-being!
All of this for, say, $800 per device (1-time cost) and, say, $100-$400 per month for all the members of the family unit to access (via cell, WiFi, Cable) the services. The latter could be underwritten by advertising, and/or offset by replacing current, monthly, telephone and cable television costs.
Think of the possibilities of a "Family Plan" concept for packaging and selling the devices, the connectivity and the services!
Point is, Apple will sell hundreds of millions of these. Those providing services or content will have a large, universal, install base to sell into.
there are two schools of thought here - either the iTab is an enlarged touch that runs apps on the iPhone OS, or a smaller MacBook that runs applications on the desktop OS, adapted to touch screen UI.
the track pad/keyboard UI of the MacBook could be converted into a touch screen UI logically. but the human finger is just not as precise a pointer as a cursor, nor are we all well coordinated. it is even harder to do precisely with something your are holding or when in motion. and applications often require fairly precise location of the cursor. so in practice you would have to zoom the screen bigger and then smaller, etc., an awful lot.
bear in mind all the prime Apple applications would have to work well to meet Jobs' high standards. not just iTunes and Safari, but also the entire iLife and iWorks suites. their UI includes a lot of smaller things. so unless Apple revised them quite a bit, they would be inconvenient to use much on an iTab in their standard format with many controls, menus, etc.
this would also be true for all third party applications. and how many of them would be revised to touch friendly for a unique isolated Mac product UI with an installed base of -0-? for a long time, very very few.
whereas, for the iPhone Apple specifically has scaled down and simplified Safari and iTunes to be limited function touch-friendly apps - just the most important stuff from each. Apple could also do the same with the iLife and iWork suites, which would then really work well on the bigger 10" touch screen display.
and of course a huge variety of thousands of third party apps already exist today that could run on it, since the installed base of that UI is now 45 million and growing rapidly.
as for the keyboard, in either case it is less than ideal. i think we all will just learn to type with one hand. the iPhone made it clear Apple does NOT design its mobile products around the keyboard, but around the UI instead.
the above clearly tells me the new iTab will not be a shrunken laptop, but rather a super Touch. just for myself, i would not buy a mini-laptop version - if i want to run full sized applications then i want to run them in the way they were designed to work well - so i'd have to buy a MacBook.
but i would buy a super Touch, for all the apps, the media, the mobile convenience. and i hate trying to use a clamshell laptop scrunched up in coach for hours - the ergonomics are terrible and i can't open the lid all the way for the best viewing angle. but the ergonomics and view of a tablet would be dramatically better.
bear in mind all the prime Apple applications would have to work well to meet Jobs' high standards. not just iTunes and Safari, but also the entire iLife and iWorks suites. their UI includes a lot of smaller things. so unless Apple revised them quite a bit, they would be inconvenient to use much on an iTab in their standard format with many controls, menus, etc.
It's been said that may newer GUI objects like Cover Flow are preparation for a touch screen Mac. While this may be the case, most existing GUI elements have not been changed this way. Plus, a 10" display with a similar dpi as most Mac notebook displays would be about 960x640, a very low resolution.
You have a very good point of using it while in motion.
Based on the screen size, which is essentially a letter sized piece of paper folder in half, and the low resolution that will come with that I fail to see this being much of a productivity device.
It seems most like an Apple version of the Vuze HD, and will primarily focus on media with apps developed by third parties (like the iPhone), with perhaps a few standard apps like an ebook reader along with what the iPhone has (Mail, iCal, iTunes, Safari, Google Maps, etc).
Based on the screen size, which is essentially a letter sized piece of paper folder in half, and the low resolution that will come with that I fail to see this being much of a productivity device.
It seems most like an Apple version of the Vuze HD, and will primarily focus on media with apps developed by third parties (like the iPhone), with perhaps a few standard apps like an ebook reader along with what the iPhone has (Mail, iCal, iTunes, Safari, Google Maps, etc).
My bet is screen resolution will not be that of an Apple Portable, but rather that of an iPhone. Big difference.
It's been said that may newer GUI objects like Cover Flow are preparation for a touch screen Mac. While this may be the case, most existing GUI elements have not been changed this way. Plus, a 10" display with a similar dpi as most Mac notebook displays would be about 960x640, a very low resolution.
You have a very good point of using it while in motion.
If this comes to fruition, which at this point in the rumour churning it seems likely with the amount of ?authenticated? press it?s getting, it would have to be a different version of OS X. Niether iPhone OS X nor Mac OS X would fit such a device, even though many frameworks from both of the other OSes and similar APIs would carry over easily.
The UI would need to be completely finger based, even if there was a capacitance stylus option and, of course, mouse/trackpad/keyboard option. This is neither a super-portable iPhone/Touch sized device or a replacement to your primary PC/Mac. This is a lot of engineering.
A new App Store and Tablet OS X SDK for the device would offer a lot of potential for the device, but they could easily use the iPhone Simulator to have pretty much every iPhone/Touch app running on it within the simulator.
While this seems like a given now it seems to be missing that killer something to make this widely popular. With Apple?s money and newfound fanbase even no killer features would probably sell better than Apple?s 15? PowerBook did just a handful of years ago, so it would almost certainly turn a wicked profit fast. Still, I would expect a feature or business model that hasn?t been mentioned yet to be the real driving force of such a device.
10" display with a similar dpi as most Mac notebook displays would be about 960x640, a very low resolution
I'm going to go with this. I think a larger iPhone screen doesn't make sense considering an unsubsidized iPhone costs 699 and this is supposed to cost 800 with more power, memory, screen size and function.
there are two schools of thought here - either the iTab is an enlarged touch that runs apps on the iPhone OS, or a smaller MacBook that runs applications on the desktop OS, adapted to touch screen UI.
the track pad/keyboard UI of the MacBook could be converted into a touch screen UI logically. but the human finger is just not as precise a pointer as a cursor, nor are we all well coordinated. it is even harder to do precisely with something your are holding or when in motion. and applications often require fairly precise location of the cursor. so in practice you would have to zoom the screen bigger and then smaller, etc., an awful lot.
bear in mind all the prime Apple applications would have to work well to meet Jobs' high standards. not just iTunes and Safari, but also the entire iLife and iWorks suites. their UI includes a lot of smaller things. so unless Apple revised them quite a bit, they would be inconvenient to use much on an iTab in their standard format with many controls, menus, etc.
this would also be true for all third party applications. and how many of them would be revised to touch friendly for a unique isolated Mac product UI with an installed base of -0-? for a long time, very very few.
whereas, for the iPhone Apple specifically has scaled down and simplified Safari and iTunes to be limited function touch-friendly apps - just the most important stuff from each. Apple could also do the same with the iLife and iWork suites, which would then really work well on the bigger 10" touch screen display.
and of course a huge variety of thousands of third party apps already exist today that could run on it, since the installed base of that UI is now 45 million and growing rapidly.
as for the keyboard, in either case it is less than ideal. i think we all will just learn to type with one hand. the iPhone made it clear Apple does NOT design its mobile products around the keyboard, but around the UI instead.
the above clearly tells me the new iTab will not be a shrunken laptop, but rather a super Touch. just for myself, i would not buy a mini-laptop version - if i want to run full sized applications then i want to run them in the way they were designed to work well - so i'd have to buy a MacBook.
but i would buy a super Touch, for all the apps, the media, the mobile convenience. and i hate trying to use a clamshell laptop scrunched up in coach for hours - the ergonomics are terrible and i can't open the lid all the way for the best viewing angle. but the ergonomics and view of a tablet would be dramatically better.
I agree with most of your points.
--There several styli that work with the iPhone screen, and there is nothing to prevent their use with a tablet. In fact, if the stylus can detect pressure, this could be sent to the tablet via BT.
--I suspect that apple has been refining the iLife and iWork UI to accommodate a touch UI. Many things would translate [to Touch] directly. Other things, such as dragging small shape handles/points will need to be re-implemented.
--there are a few options for key entry, from a BT hard kb to variations on Touch kbs (chording, shorthand, stenography, speed writing, etc). One interesting approach is ShapeWriter:
where key entry is performed by dragging from key to key, instead of hunt and peck. Each word's, combination and order of keys draws an unique shape. You can get up to speed with a very little practice. It is roughly equivalent to signing for the hearing impaired.
The biggest downside is that it is not standard across all apps.
--Handwriting and Voice recognition are options
I believe that there has got to be a better keying solution that the 19th century legacy QWERTY keyboard that was designed to slow the typist down so that the type-bars had a chance to return after striking the paper.
--As for business/professional use, maybe we need to look at what we do from a different perspective. How about taking an app like Sketches or PagesTouch, and drawing that pie chart with your finger: the app converts your scribbles to regular, multi-colored segments of a circle and allows you to easily adjust them (size and % value). Get it looking the way you want & tap a button! The app generates the spreadsheet from the chart. A camera, compass, GPS and CPU can turn a scene into Augmented Reality (identifying where you are, and what you see). We have reverse GPS; why not Reverse CAD, Reverse OpenGL, Reverse PhotoShop?
I look to a well designed (hardware and software) Touch tablet as being the shape of future... Certainly there will be powerhouse computers, but they too will adopt the large, touch interface, The desktop computers, as we know them today, will be consigned to the green-eyeshades in the back room.
i really see great potential in simplified iPhone-type apps for iLife and iWork. this has gotten very little discussion so far.
if the iTab has the camera/video, then easy to use touch screen versions of iPhoto and iMovie with much simpler menus and bigger control buttons etc. would be killer. just basics, but including all the common things that would be enough 80% of the time for consumers (the iPhone 3.0 video app is a baby step only). the 10" screen would offer enough view area, whereas the iPhone screen is obviously too small.
likewise, for light document editing in a streamlined iWork, even the limited virtual keyboard would work. obviously would not write a thesis on it, but modifying docs on the road or a keynote presentation would be very possible. or keeping notes, records, etc.
Apple has a huge incentive to broaden iLife and iWork into touch screen app suites. it does not want to see those key mobile consumer functions captured completely instead by Google and others' web apps. and it would further reinforce Mobile Me's alternative cloud services for them.
these very sophisticated apps might not be ready until January or later, even if the iTab were released this fall just as a super-sized Touch for Xmas. that might account for the conflicting release dates we are hearing about ...
Thing I don't get is what OS will be on the tablet? If it's a full Mac OS then that'd be good, but I can't see the battery lasting if the case has to hold the guts, screen and battery..
Instead, I reckon it might be a kind of super-iPod touch, running iPhone apps, but able to multitask because it's bigger battery and processor.
You are on that vacation trip (train, plane or car). The kids are in the back seat(s) and each has his own personal device. One is watching a movie, another is playing a video game, the third is listening/watching streamed AV Albums or TV. Or they can all interact and share (tweets, walkie-talkie, multiplayer games, AV playlists).
Yes but none of this is common netbook usage. Which is my point if Apple tries to sell this as a replacement for a netbook the marketing will fail.
Quote:
Meanwhile your spouse, in the passenger seat, is reading a book/magazine, or monitoring trip schedules/travelog, or checking security/status at the home front.
You, the driver, are getting turn-by-turn instructions or heads-up of points of interest along the way.
Again uses not normally associated with netbooks.
Quote:
Then, vacation over, we all go back to our daily routine (business data, presos, schedules, home records and management, sports, events, entertainment, school/college). Each of us needs to take our personal stuff with us, whether it be contacts or text books).
So, really, this is for much more than entertainment... it is for most of the things we do.
So is the current Touch or iPhone but they don't replace a laptop either. What could make this device neat would be voice transcription, that would greatly reduce the impact of having no keyboard. That would be a surprise though so we go back to the thing being useless for stuff that requires heavy data input.
Quote:
The interesting thing is that one device does all these things, tailored to your / my specific needs, in any setting, at any time.
--personal TV, music player, movie player, game player; ad nauseam.
ad nothing, these are not uses unique to a tablet computer. Some such as note taking would be almost impossible.
Quote:
Who, in the family, wouldn't need/use his own, personal, one of these and the services it provides? Even, the baby would have one, on the wall, to monitor his well-being!
All of this for, say, $800 per device (1-time cost) and, say, $100-$400 per month for all the members of the family unit to access (via cell, WiFi, Cable) the services.
You have to be completely off your rocker if you think people will pay $400 a month for data access. I agree with some of you points but this has me believing you are completely off your rocker. I would pay much more that twenty dollars a machine for data access.
Quote:
The latter could be underwritten by advertising, and/or offset by replacing current, monthly, telephone and cable television costs.
Think of the possibilities of a "Family Plan" concept for packaging and selling the devices, the connectivity and the services!
You must be a highly over paid marketing droid if you honestly think people will spend that much on a data plan. Seriously you want people to spend almost half a grand a month for 3 dollars worth of bandwidth. Especially on a device that will most likely be picking up free WiFi often.
Quote:
Point is, Apple will sell hundreds of millions of these. Those providing services or content will have a large, universal, install base to sell into.
You are getting ahead of things here. To sell that many devices the unit needs to have a features that are in effect universal. There also needs to be reasonable costs associated with owning the device, something you seem to mis.
Quote:
... I tend to get excited
Dick
P.S. Merry Christmas, Everyone!
I would agree that you are excited but really also out of Touch . It has to do with those costs you suppose we would be willing to pay.
I'm going to go with this. I think a larger iPhone screen doesn't make sense considering an unsubsidized iPhone costs 699 and this is supposed to cost 800 with more power, memory, screen size and function.
Realize that the unsubsidized iPhones are marketed at $699, they don't cost that much. I'd be surprised to find them costing Apple much more than $150 bucks. So building a larger device isn't going to cost much more.
Think about it if the device has an ARM SoC it isn't going to cost much more than the CPU in the current iPhone. Especially if the device is 45nm. Even if Apple adds extra computational units and a vastly improved GPU it is still all on on chip.
The only thing that will cost Apple more is the screen and likely RAM and storage. The screen for obvious reasons and the RAM because it is likely to be much larger than what is in the iPhone. Lastly storage is an interesting question because I could see standard high performance storage being put into the device. A lot more of that storage too, ideally such a device would start out with 256GB of Flash. Hopefully that is why Toshiba is going balls to the wall.
Realize that the unsubsidized iPhones are marketed at $699, they don't cost that much. I'd be surprised to find them costing Apple much more than $150 bucks. So building a larger device isn't going to cost much more.
Think about it if the device has an ARM SoC it isn't going to cost much more than the CPU in the current iPhone. Especially if the device is 45nm. Even if Apple adds extra computational units and a vastly improved GPU it is still all on on chip.
The only thing that will cost Apple more is the screen and likely RAM and storage. The screen for obvious reasons and the RAM because it is likely to be much larger than what is in the iPhone. Lastly storage is an interesting question because I could see standard high performance storage being put into the device. A lot more of that storage too, ideally such a device would start out with 256GB of Flash. Hopefully that is why Toshiba is going balls to the wall.
So $800 is easy to hit for the hardware.
Dave
Hey man.
I was just asking in the other thread if you and Ireland remembered that it was just the few of us in the future hardware that that knew that this product was coming while the rest of the community was making fun of us. Making fun of us for two looooong years.
Now look. Now all of a sudden people believe and want to buy it as if they knew all along.
The naysayers used to make fun of us do you remember? Now, just like the dinosaurs, the naysayers are all but extinct....dead underground about to transform into crude oil and fossils.
I was just asking in the other thread if you and Ireland remembered that it was just the few of us in the future hardware that that knew that this product was coming while the rest of the community was making fun of us. Making fun of us for two looooong years.
Now look. Now all of a sudden people believe and want to buy it as if they knew all along.
The naysayers used to make fun of us do you remember? Now, just like the dinosaurs, the naysayers are all but extinct....dead underground about to transform into crude oil and fossils.
Whos da man now hmmm? hmmmmm??????
Olternaut, I was with ya too... but two years? It's a lot longer than that for me... but yes, they may have pointed fingers, they may have even mocked but who is finally getting the...
Olternaut, I was with ya too... but two years? It's a lot longer than that for me... but yes, they may have pointed fingers, they may have even mocked but who is finally getting the...
Lemme hold on to that though for now...
Dave
I was about to say we'll be getting the last laugh. But ultimately I think it's Steve Jobs himself who will be getting the last laugh.
Comments
Chris
http://faaipdeoiad.com/
I'll dump my Netbook in favor of a touchscreen tablet. Wonder if we can dual boot Windows 7 on this bad boy... ?
Chris
There are strong rumors that this tablet will be based on ARM processors. In any event you don't seem to realize that a tablet isn't a substitute for a notebook. It is a different animal that could not be used properly with Windows 7 even if it had Intel inside.
I'm not trying to be negative here just that I see so many posts about a laptop being replaced with a tablet that I want to scream. I think many will be almost instantly disappointed if they are heavy laptop users. A repeat of AIR isn't needed, that is we don't need people running out and buying the thing only to sell at a huge loss three months later when they realize the unit doesn't fit their needs.
Frankly I don't think Apple can be successful marketing a tablet in the same way as a notebook gets marketed. That would lead to to many disappointed people once the device is in hand. The tablet will need it's own reason for being. We can guess at things such as video Ipod or e-book reading but I highly doubt success would be forth coming with as a spread sheet productivity machine. The simple reason is that input method isn't acceptable for mass text entry.
Dave
Frankly I don't think Apple can be successful marketing a tablet in the same way as a notebook gets marketed. That would lead to to many disappointed people once the device is in hand. The tablet will need it's own reason for being. We can guess at things such as video Ipod or e-book reading but I highly doubt success would be forth coming with as a spread sheet productivity machine. The simple reason is that input method isn't acceptable for mass text entry.
Dave
Consider:
You are on that vacation trip (train, plane or car). The kids are in the back seat(s) and each has his own personal device. One is watching a movie, another is playing a video game, the third is listening/watching streamed AV Albums or TV. Or they can all interact and share (tweets, walkie-talkie, multiplayer games, AV playlists).
Meanwhile your spouse, in the passenger seat, is reading a book/magazine, or monitoring trip schedules/travelog, or checking security/status at the home front.
You, the driver, are getting turn-by-turn instructions or heads-up of points of interest along the way.
Then, vacation over, we all go back to our daily routine (business data, presos, schedules, home records and management, sports, events, entertainment, school/college). Each of us needs to take our personal stuff with us, whether it be contacts or text books).
So, really, this is for much more than entertainment... it is for most of the things we do.
The interesting thing is that one device does all these things, tailored to your / my specific needs, in any setting, at any time.
For example, the kids would use it for:
--I-am-here, where-where-you;
--text books, lesson plans, note taking, homework assignment/preparation/submission, drill & practice, tests;
--medical allergies & records;
--personal TV, music player, movie player, game player; ad nauseam.
Who, in the family, wouldn't need/use his own, personal, one of these and the services it provides? Even, the baby would have one, on the wall, to monitor his well-being!
All of this for, say, $800 per device (1-time cost) and, say, $100-$400 per month for all the members of the family unit to access (via cell, WiFi, Cable) the services. The latter could be underwritten by advertising, and/or offset by replacing current, monthly, telephone and cable television costs.
Think of the possibilities of a "Family Plan" concept for packaging and selling the devices, the connectivity and the services!
Point is, Apple will sell hundreds of millions of these. Those providing services or content will have a large, universal, install base to sell into.
... I tend to get excited
Dick
P.S. Merry Christmas, Everyone!
the track pad/keyboard UI of the MacBook could be converted into a touch screen UI logically. but the human finger is just not as precise a pointer as a cursor, nor are we all well coordinated. it is even harder to do precisely with something your are holding or when in motion. and applications often require fairly precise location of the cursor. so in practice you would have to zoom the screen bigger and then smaller, etc., an awful lot.
bear in mind all the prime Apple applications would have to work well to meet Jobs' high standards. not just iTunes and Safari, but also the entire iLife and iWorks suites. their UI includes a lot of smaller things. so unless Apple revised them quite a bit, they would be inconvenient to use much on an iTab in their standard format with many controls, menus, etc.
this would also be true for all third party applications. and how many of them would be revised to touch friendly for a unique isolated Mac product UI with an installed base of -0-? for a long time, very very few.
whereas, for the iPhone Apple specifically has scaled down and simplified Safari and iTunes to be limited function touch-friendly apps - just the most important stuff from each. Apple could also do the same with the iLife and iWork suites, which would then really work well on the bigger 10" touch screen display.
and of course a huge variety of thousands of third party apps already exist today that could run on it, since the installed base of that UI is now 45 million and growing rapidly.
as for the keyboard, in either case it is less than ideal. i think we all will just learn to type with one hand. the iPhone made it clear Apple does NOT design its mobile products around the keyboard, but around the UI instead.
the above clearly tells me the new iTab will not be a shrunken laptop, but rather a super Touch. just for myself, i would not buy a mini-laptop version - if i want to run full sized applications then i want to run them in the way they were designed to work well - so i'd have to buy a MacBook.
but i would buy a super Touch, for all the apps, the media, the mobile convenience. and i hate trying to use a clamshell laptop scrunched up in coach for hours - the ergonomics are terrible and i can't open the lid all the way for the best viewing angle. but the ergonomics and view of a tablet would be dramatically better.
I don't take credit for this concept, but
http://www.yankodesign.com/2009/04/2...be-just-maybe/
The images are too big to post
Geez! Where have you been? Those pics have only been posted as a feature article for every mac related site on the planet for a few months now.
I take it that your back from your extended exploratory mission on Jupiter's moon Titan?
bear in mind all the prime Apple applications would have to work well to meet Jobs' high standards. not just iTunes and Safari, but also the entire iLife and iWorks suites. their UI includes a lot of smaller things. so unless Apple revised them quite a bit, they would be inconvenient to use much on an iTab in their standard format with many controls, menus, etc.
It's been said that may newer GUI objects like Cover Flow are preparation for a touch screen Mac. While this may be the case, most existing GUI elements have not been changed this way. Plus, a 10" display with a similar dpi as most Mac notebook displays would be about 960x640, a very low resolution.
You have a very good point of using it while in motion.
It seems most like an Apple version of the Vuze HD, and will primarily focus on media with apps developed by third parties (like the iPhone), with perhaps a few standard apps like an ebook reader along with what the iPhone has (Mail, iCal, iTunes, Safari, Google Maps, etc).
Based on the screen size, which is essentially a letter sized piece of paper folder in half, and the low resolution that will come with that I fail to see this being much of a productivity device.
It seems most like an Apple version of the Vuze HD, and will primarily focus on media with apps developed by third parties (like the iPhone), with perhaps a few standard apps like an ebook reader along with what the iPhone has (Mail, iCal, iTunes, Safari, Google Maps, etc).
My bet is screen resolution will not be that of an Apple Portable, but rather that of an iPhone. Big difference.
It's been said that may newer GUI objects like Cover Flow are preparation for a touch screen Mac. While this may be the case, most existing GUI elements have not been changed this way. Plus, a 10" display with a similar dpi as most Mac notebook displays would be about 960x640, a very low resolution.
You have a very good point of using it while in motion.
If this comes to fruition, which at this point in the rumour churning it seems likely with the amount of ?authenticated? press it?s getting, it would have to be a different version of OS X. Niether iPhone OS X nor Mac OS X would fit such a device, even though many frameworks from both of the other OSes and similar APIs would carry over easily.
The UI would need to be completely finger based, even if there was a capacitance stylus option and, of course, mouse/trackpad/keyboard option. This is neither a super-portable iPhone/Touch sized device or a replacement to your primary PC/Mac. This is a lot of engineering.
A new App Store and Tablet OS X SDK for the device would offer a lot of potential for the device, but they could easily use the iPhone Simulator to have pretty much every iPhone/Touch app running on it within the simulator.
While this seems like a given now it seems to be missing that killer something to make this widely popular. With Apple?s money and newfound fanbase even no killer features would probably sell better than Apple?s 15? PowerBook did just a handful of years ago, so it would almost certainly turn a wicked profit fast. Still, I would expect a feature or business model that hasn?t been mentioned yet to be the real driving force of such a device.
10" display with a similar dpi as most Mac notebook displays would be about 960x640, a very low resolution
I'm going to go with this. I think a larger iPhone screen doesn't make sense considering an unsubsidized iPhone costs 699 and this is supposed to cost 800 with more power, memory, screen size and function.
there are two schools of thought here - either the iTab is an enlarged touch that runs apps on the iPhone OS, or a smaller MacBook that runs applications on the desktop OS, adapted to touch screen UI.
the track pad/keyboard UI of the MacBook could be converted into a touch screen UI logically. but the human finger is just not as precise a pointer as a cursor, nor are we all well coordinated. it is even harder to do precisely with something your are holding or when in motion. and applications often require fairly precise location of the cursor. so in practice you would have to zoom the screen bigger and then smaller, etc., an awful lot.
bear in mind all the prime Apple applications would have to work well to meet Jobs' high standards. not just iTunes and Safari, but also the entire iLife and iWorks suites. their UI includes a lot of smaller things. so unless Apple revised them quite a bit, they would be inconvenient to use much on an iTab in their standard format with many controls, menus, etc.
this would also be true for all third party applications. and how many of them would be revised to touch friendly for a unique isolated Mac product UI with an installed base of -0-? for a long time, very very few.
whereas, for the iPhone Apple specifically has scaled down and simplified Safari and iTunes to be limited function touch-friendly apps - just the most important stuff from each. Apple could also do the same with the iLife and iWork suites, which would then really work well on the bigger 10" touch screen display.
and of course a huge variety of thousands of third party apps already exist today that could run on it, since the installed base of that UI is now 45 million and growing rapidly.
as for the keyboard, in either case it is less than ideal. i think we all will just learn to type with one hand. the iPhone made it clear Apple does NOT design its mobile products around the keyboard, but around the UI instead.
the above clearly tells me the new iTab will not be a shrunken laptop, but rather a super Touch. just for myself, i would not buy a mini-laptop version - if i want to run full sized applications then i want to run them in the way they were designed to work well - so i'd have to buy a MacBook.
but i would buy a super Touch, for all the apps, the media, the mobile convenience. and i hate trying to use a clamshell laptop scrunched up in coach for hours - the ergonomics are terrible and i can't open the lid all the way for the best viewing angle. but the ergonomics and view of a tablet would be dramatically better.
I agree with most of your points.
--There several styli that work with the iPhone screen, and there is nothing to prevent their use with a tablet. In fact, if the stylus can detect pressure, this could be sent to the tablet via BT.
--I suspect that apple has been refining the iLife and iWork UI to accommodate a touch UI. Many things would translate [to Touch] directly. Other things, such as dragging small shape handles/points will need to be re-implemented.
--there are a few options for key entry, from a BT hard kb to variations on Touch kbs (chording, shorthand, stenography, speed writing, etc). One interesting approach is ShapeWriter:
http://www.shapewriter.com/software.html#iPhone
where key entry is performed by dragging from key to key, instead of hunt and peck. Each word's, combination and order of keys draws an unique shape. You can get up to speed with a very little practice. It is roughly equivalent to signing for the hearing impaired.
The biggest downside is that it is not standard across all apps.
--Handwriting and Voice recognition are options
I believe that there has got to be a better keying solution that the 19th century legacy QWERTY keyboard that was designed to slow the typist down so that the type-bars had a chance to return after striking the paper.
--As for business/professional use, maybe we need to look at what we do from a different perspective. How about taking an app like Sketches or PagesTouch, and drawing that pie chart with your finger: the app converts your scribbles to regular, multi-colored segments of a circle and allows you to easily adjust them (size and % value). Get it looking the way you want & tap a button! The app generates the spreadsheet from the chart. A camera, compass, GPS and CPU can turn a scene into Augmented Reality (identifying where you are, and what you see). We have reverse GPS; why not Reverse CAD, Reverse OpenGL, Reverse PhotoShop?
I look to a well designed (hardware and software) Touch tablet as being the shape of future... Certainly there will be powerhouse computers, but they too will adopt the large, touch interface, The desktop computers, as we know them today, will be consigned to the green-eyeshades in the back room.
Dick
I know I will buy lots of 'em, and this is what will happen...
I'm not sure I see a problem here.
if the iTab has the camera/video, then easy to use touch screen versions of iPhoto and iMovie with much simpler menus and bigger control buttons etc. would be killer. just basics, but including all the common things that would be enough 80% of the time for consumers (the iPhone 3.0 video app is a baby step only). the 10" screen would offer enough view area, whereas the iPhone screen is obviously too small.
likewise, for light document editing in a streamlined iWork, even the limited virtual keyboard would work. obviously would not write a thesis on it, but modifying docs on the road or a keynote presentation would be very possible. or keeping notes, records, etc.
Apple has a huge incentive to broaden iLife and iWork into touch screen app suites. it does not want to see those key mobile consumer functions captured completely instead by Google and others' web apps. and it would further reinforce Mobile Me's alternative cloud services for them.
these very sophisticated apps might not be ready until January or later, even if the iTab were released this fall just as a super-sized Touch for Xmas. that might account for the conflicting release dates we are hearing about ...
Instead, I reckon it might be a kind of super-iPod touch, running iPhone apps, but able to multitask because it's bigger battery and processor.
Consider:
You are on that vacation trip (train, plane or car). The kids are in the back seat(s) and each has his own personal device. One is watching a movie, another is playing a video game, the third is listening/watching streamed AV Albums or TV. Or they can all interact and share (tweets, walkie-talkie, multiplayer games, AV playlists).
Yes but none of this is common netbook usage. Which is my point if Apple tries to sell this as a replacement for a netbook the marketing will fail.
Meanwhile your spouse, in the passenger seat, is reading a book/magazine, or monitoring trip schedules/travelog, or checking security/status at the home front.
You, the driver, are getting turn-by-turn instructions or heads-up of points of interest along the way.
Again uses not normally associated with netbooks.
Then, vacation over, we all go back to our daily routine (business data, presos, schedules, home records and management, sports, events, entertainment, school/college). Each of us needs to take our personal stuff with us, whether it be contacts or text books).
So, really, this is for much more than entertainment... it is for most of the things we do.
So is the current Touch or iPhone but they don't replace a laptop either. What could make this device neat would be voice transcription, that would greatly reduce the impact of having no keyboard. That would be a surprise though so we go back to the thing being useless for stuff that requires heavy data input.
The interesting thing is that one device does all these things, tailored to your / my specific needs, in any setting, at any time.
For example, the kids would use it for:
--I-am-here, where-where-you;
--text books, lesson plans, note taking, homework assignment/preparation/submission, drill & practice, tests;
--medical allergies & records;
--personal TV, music player, movie player, game player; ad nauseam.
ad nothing, these are not uses unique to a tablet computer. Some such as note taking would be almost impossible.
Who, in the family, wouldn't need/use his own, personal, one of these and the services it provides? Even, the baby would have one, on the wall, to monitor his well-being!
All of this for, say, $800 per device (1-time cost) and, say, $100-$400 per month for all the members of the family unit to access (via cell, WiFi, Cable) the services.
You have to be completely off your rocker if you think people will pay $400 a month for data access. I agree with some of you points but this has me believing you are completely off your rocker. I would pay much more that twenty dollars a machine for data access.
The latter could be underwritten by advertising, and/or offset by replacing current, monthly, telephone and cable television costs.
Think of the possibilities of a "Family Plan" concept for packaging and selling the devices, the connectivity and the services!
You must be a highly over paid marketing droid if you honestly think people will spend that much on a data plan. Seriously you want people to spend almost half a grand a month for 3 dollars worth of bandwidth. Especially on a device that will most likely be picking up free WiFi often.
Point is, Apple will sell hundreds of millions of these. Those providing services or content will have a large, universal, install base to sell into.
You are getting ahead of things here. To sell that many devices the unit needs to have a features that are in effect universal. There also needs to be reasonable costs associated with owning the device, something you seem to mis.
... I tend to get excited
Dick
P.S. Merry Christmas, Everyone!
I would agree that you are excited but really also out of Touch
Dave.
I'm going to go with this. I think a larger iPhone screen doesn't make sense considering an unsubsidized iPhone costs 699 and this is supposed to cost 800 with more power, memory, screen size and function.
Realize that the unsubsidized iPhones are marketed at $699, they don't cost that much. I'd be surprised to find them costing Apple much more than $150 bucks. So building a larger device isn't going to cost much more.
Think about it if the device has an ARM SoC it isn't going to cost much more than the CPU in the current iPhone. Especially if the device is 45nm. Even if Apple adds extra computational units and a vastly improved GPU it is still all on on chip.
The only thing that will cost Apple more is the screen and likely RAM and storage. The screen for obvious reasons and the RAM because it is likely to be much larger than what is in the iPhone. Lastly storage is an interesting question because I could see standard high performance storage being put into the device. A lot more of that storage too, ideally such a device would start out with 256GB of Flash. Hopefully that is why Toshiba is going balls to the wall.
So $800 is easy to hit for the hardware.
Dave
Realize that the unsubsidized iPhones are marketed at $699, they don't cost that much. I'd be surprised to find them costing Apple much more than $150 bucks. So building a larger device isn't going to cost much more.
Think about it if the device has an ARM SoC it isn't going to cost much more than the CPU in the current iPhone. Especially if the device is 45nm. Even if Apple adds extra computational units and a vastly improved GPU it is still all on on chip.
The only thing that will cost Apple more is the screen and likely RAM and storage. The screen for obvious reasons and the RAM because it is likely to be much larger than what is in the iPhone. Lastly storage is an interesting question because I could see standard high performance storage being put into the device. A lot more of that storage too, ideally such a device would start out with 256GB of Flash. Hopefully that is why Toshiba is going balls to the wall.
So $800 is easy to hit for the hardware.
Dave
Hey man.
I was just asking in the other thread if you and Ireland remembered that it was just the few of us in the future hardware that that knew that this product was coming while the rest of the community was making fun of us. Making fun of us for two looooong years.
Now look. Now all of a sudden people believe and want to buy it as if they knew all along.
The naysayers used to make fun of us do you remember? Now, just like the dinosaurs, the naysayers are all but extinct....dead underground about to transform into crude oil and fossils.
Whos da man now hmmm? hmmmmm??????
Hey man.
I was just asking in the other thread if you and Ireland remembered that it was just the few of us in the future hardware that that knew that this product was coming while the rest of the community was making fun of us. Making fun of us for two looooong years.
Now look. Now all of a sudden people believe and want to buy it as if they knew all along.
The naysayers used to make fun of us do you remember? Now, just like the dinosaurs, the naysayers are all but extinct....dead underground about to transform into crude oil and fossils.
Whos da man now hmmm? hmmmmm??????
Olternaut, I was with ya too... but two years? It's a lot longer than that for me... but yes, they may have pointed fingers, they may have even mocked but who is finally getting the...
Lemme hold on to that though for now...
Dave
Olternaut, I was with ya too... but two years? It's a lot longer than that for me... but yes, they may have pointed fingers, they may have even mocked but who is finally getting the...
Lemme hold on to that though for now...
Dave
I was about to say we'll be getting the last laugh. But ultimately I think it's Steve Jobs himself who will be getting the last laugh.