Again, my deep conviction here with the OS of this device is that it will be a hybrid. It's not going to be a desktop OS converted for tablet use and it's not going to be a giant ipod touch. It will have feature and abilities similar to both types of systems yet be none of them.
It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better.
You want details? Your going to have to wait for the debut......or the brave spy who leaks info.
I agree. The only it can possibly work is for OS X to branch into a new version. Anything else is a fail as we?ve seen with other tablets.
the "evidence" for such a thing is actually evidence pointing to the inclusion of multitouch in the Apple notebook, iMac, and monitor lines of hardware. And at this point, this is expected in the next iteration of mac hardware anyway, so its really not that newsworthy. Heck, MS already had touch built into 7 (although it is crap and doesn't even animate, so you can't tell what you are doing until you have fully completed the motion - but it is there) if you have the proper hardware - and you know HP has already got the hardware lined up. And with that 1080P 30,000 contrast 27 inch monitor they came out with today for only $499, their hardware is going to give Apple a run for its money. So I expect everything apple sells will be multitouch before too long.
Again, my deep conviction here with the OS of this device is that it will be a hybrid.
I don't like the term hybrid because at their core iPhone OS and Mac OS are the same thing. IPhones user interface however could evolve easily to support a tablet and remain backwards compatible with iPhone.
Quote:
It's not going to be a desktop OS converted for tablet use and it's not going to be a giant ipod touch. It will have feature and abilities similar to both types of systems yet be none of them.
Well a tablet running Mac OS cerainly not. In respect to a giant iPod Touch, it will have both physical and software similarities. I say this because apparently the current iPhone OS was a refactored Touch Pad like device.
So it certainly won't look exactly like iPhone as it will be extended with additional features. But you can't really call it a hybrid as it won't inherit from Mac OS. In this case the APIs are all new.
Quote:
It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
We seem to be on the same wave length. The problem is running desk top like apps doesn't imply a hybrid with Mac OS. It makes far more sense to develop APIs specific for the platform. It is the best way to make sure developers adopt new methods is to eliminate the old.
Quote:
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better.
You want details? Your going to have to wait for the debut......or the brave spy who leaks info.
The lack of leaks bothers me. There is very little info on the new iPods or this tablet leaking. As to spys they need to be real brave now adays.
...It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better...
I kinda agree with this view; it'll run desktop apps, but primarily to just view them with maybe very limited options to create anything. Like the video editing available on the iPhone rather than iMovie.
Maybe an option to run iPhone apps on a 'vitual' iPhone, like a widget on the tablets larger screen? would that save re-wrting iPhone apps?
I don't see how meaningful creative input to a touchscreen could be achieved, I'd hate to write anything but short emails etc. on a touchscreen.
I don't like the term hybrid because at their core iPhone OS and Mac OS are the same thing. IPhones user interface however could evolve easily to support a tablet and remain backwards compatible with iPhone.
Well a tablet running Mac OS cerainly not. In respect to a giant iPod Touch, it will have both physical and software similarities. I say this because apparently the current iPhone OS was a refactored Touch Pad like device.
So it certainly won't look exactly like iPhone as it will be extended with additional features. But you can't really call it a hybrid as it won't inherit from Mac OS. In this case the APIs are all new.
We seem to be on the same wave length. The problem is running desk top like apps doesn't imply a hybrid with Mac OS. It makes far more sense to develop APIs specific for the platform. It is the best way to make sure developers adopt new methods is to eliminate the old.
The lack of leaks bothers me. There is very little info on the new iPods or this tablet leaking. As to spys they need to be real brave now adays.
Dave
I understand that ultimately it is the same underlying OS we're talking about here. I guess when I say OS I mean the OS that is tailored for the specific type of device. It's not like their going to shove the iPhone OS or Mac OSX in it and call it a day. And the lack of leaks could really mean that finally Apple is laying down some serious internal security over this product.
But it's probably going to leak anyway minutes up to the debut.
Then again, there were no major leaks before the iPhone debut remember? There were just minor leaks with hints about the device. This could very well be a repeat of 2007.....but bigger! \
the "evidence" for such a thing is actually evidence pointing to the inclusion of multitouch in the Apple notebook, iMac, and monitor lines of hardware. And at this point, this is expected in the next iteration of mac hardware anyway, so its really not that newsworthy. Heck, MS already had touch built into 7 (although it is crap and doesn't even animate, so you can't tell what you are doing until you have fully completed the motion - but it is there) if you have the proper hardware - and you know HP has already got the hardware lined up. And with that 1080P 30,000 contrast 27 inch monitor they came out with today for only $499, their hardware is going to give Apple a run for its money. So I expect everything apple sells will be multitouch before too long.
the end.
Quote:
Analyst claims first hand knowledge of Apple gaming, home media center tablet
Sat, 08/01/2009 - 09:56 ? Seth Weintraub
2611
Barron's is reporting that an un-named analyst has seen Apple's forthcoming tablet and expects it to be announced in September with a ship date around November. They mention that Apple is such a bellwether for the industry that all other manufacturing in this area has stopped until Apple releases this product. They expect the product to retail for $700-$800 and fulfill a variety of multimedia functions including AppleTV and Gaming.
One veteran analyst who has seen first-hand a prototype slate-style computer from Apple says the device could be announced in September for release in November.
Whatever the exact dates, the computer industry is so anxious to see what Apple introduces that it has held off on competing designs until Apple CEO Steve Jobs gives the device his final blessing. "It's close enough now to a final design that in Asia, there's no other product in the waiting room or in the bullpen," said the analyst. "There are dozens of ODMs [original device makers] making products for Lenovo and other PC makers that are all waiting to see what the Apple product is."
The new device, which may retail for $699 to $799, could fulfill a variety of multimedia functions currently taken up by a gaggle of individual consumer electronics devices. It could be a home media center, somewhat like the current Apple TV, and it could be a gaming machine, opines Jon Peddie, head of Jon Peddie Research in Tiburon, Calif. "Gaming will be a big part of what this is about," he adds.
The machine impresses with its display of hi-def video content, says the veteran analyst, who asked not to be identified. "It's better than the average movie experience, when you hold this thing in your hands."
...
A second source confirmed to me that news of the new device "is all over the supply chain in Asia." The biggest question at this point, and the least understood by anyone outside Apple, is whether the company's App Store will be the exclusive distribution point for software for this device.
As Steve Jobs says, it's the software that defines these things.
Your living in denial dude....it's not healthy. You can't stare at the giant meteor hurtling toward you and say "it's not real....therefore I will not be obliterated by it" and expect to live.
It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better.
I doubt both of these statements.
Desktop Apps would suck.
Any un-modified desktop application would be poor on a tablet.
Imagine the simple act of typing into a text box. The virtual on-screen keyboard pops up - and it has to do so without obscuring the area we are typing into.
Desktop apps demand all manner of inputs, how do you alt-click on a tablet?
And commercially, what motivation does Apple have for releasing this sub-par desktop experience?
iPhone Apps would suck.
No iPhone application is designed for a large screen.
Simply scaling-up the application would make it look terrible. Bitmaps would blur.
Running an iPhone app within a window would be equally unsatisfactory.
If Apple release this device, it will be a new class of product with its own custom user interface.
Yes it will be OS X underneath, Yes Cocoa will the glue between the code and the interface. But not a Mac, and not iPhone OS, and not designed to run software from either.
This will be a change of direction for Apple. Who normally enter a market by taking an existing class of project and making something better.
If it is going to happen at all this will be something quite new.
If Apple release this device, it will be a new class of product with its own custom user interface.
Yes it will be OS X underneath, Yes Cocoa will the glue between the code and the interface. But not a Mac, and not iPhone OS, and not designed to run software from either.
It won't be Mac as we know it, currently, but it will be Mac. Mac OS X touch, namely. Gestures will replace keyboard shortcuts.
Well you blew it in the first line of this post! I will be the first to say I'm looking for something more like a big iPod Touch rather than a scaled down Mac notebook.
History says otherwise.
When I here BS like the above I wonder if people even have a clue as to how powerful the current Touch based OS is or how easy extending it to support more features will be. I suspect it will be far easier for Apple to extend the Touch OS for more powerful devices than it will be to trim Mac OS for a new product. Beyond that I don't think Apple would spin it's wheels with development of the robust OS that is in iaphone with out plans to use it else where. We are talking a huge development effort that needs to be leveraged on more products.
Yeah and those APIs run under what? Let's here it Apples Mobile / iPhone OS.
The point you are missing is that is exactly what they have done with Touch. So what would be the point in making the Mac APIs even more complex? In any event you fail to realize how difficult doing what you describe is, especially keeping it compatible with existing software.
1.
Newton didn't fail it got axed. Big difference.
2.
Since we are talking about failures here, every tablet brought to market up till this time has been a failure. Every single one. Part of that is due to the use of an OS API simply not suitable for the job.
3.
Touch is a successful tablet API right now, extending it to support larger devices would lead to rapid user acceptance. It has proven to be suitable for the job.
4.
Both Touch and Mac OSes are based on the same underlying code so in a way this arguement is a bit silly. It is really a discussion about APIs for user apps. One good thing about Touch is that there is no legacy APIs to be supported.
5.
A touch device running Mac OS is a very bad idea if current programs designed for desktop interfaces can run on it. Going iPhone derived for the OS eliminates the possibility of running apps that don't work on the tablet. Apple needs a platfom for tablets that breaks from the past.
Yes it was which should make it obvious that something derived from iPhone OS is the likely development path. Think about it this project was shelved slightly to refocus on getting a cell phone out the door. This in effect means two years of solid development have likely gone into the OS since iPhones debut. IPhone OS is a trimmed down version of whatever this tablet OS was, it should be clear that capability beyound what we see in the iPhone is a real potential.
That remains to be seen, Apple has proven that it can screw up just about anything still. AIR is just the last example. Frankly there are even more ways to screw up a tablet. The most obvious way to screw it up would be to implement a poorly ported desktop OS on it. Really mucking up the hardware is an issue too.
Dave
Newton did fail and it got axed because it was taking Engineering resources away from OS X and the upcoming iMac. I remember walking through the massive crowd of 40 demonstrators protesting it's cancellation at Cupertino, in front of building one.
Newton did fail and it got axed because it was taking Engineering resources away from OS X and the upcoming iMac.
The need for engineering resources doesn't mean Newton failed. Rather it means Apple couldn't afford to dedicate time to the unit. At that point in the companieshistory they didn't have the luxury to continue development. Apple was bleeding red and a very drastic plan was implemented to take control of the issues of that time.
I honestly believe that if Apple really thought Newton was a failure they would have sold the division off. Instead they kept everything. Some of the IP in Newton they continued to develop for use on other platforms. Being cut is not the samething as failing in this regard.
Quote:
I remember walking through the massive crowd of 40 demonstrators protesting it's cancellation at Cupertino, in front of building one.
Yes and the device still has a massive following. Well massive for a device canceled years ago.
In anyevent we really don't want this coming device to be a failure for Apple. I can already see though that in some eyes it will be seen that way no matter how it is positioned. My guess is that Apple will address the position many hold that all tablets have failed by positioning the device as a souled up iPod Touch. That is a Touch that can do video and other media better suited to a larger screen. This of course will make the device a failure in the eyes of the people expecting a Mac Tablet with Mac OS/X installed. It will sell like hot cakes though so Apple will do good.
More importantly because it is a Touch based device it will eventually find interesting software on it. Software that will cause the device to work it's way into corporate and business worlds. Just like iPhone and Touch have. It is a bit of a slow sneak attack. Once people realize the devices utility beyound the world of media consumption it will start to grow legs with alternative uses. It really is a bit of action from the IPhone playbook.
I agree that it will run a variety of OS X - with touch gestures.
But it will not be able to run un-modified Macintosh applications.
So they can not call it a Mac.
C.
To be truthful this is all marketing. It will be "a touch-screen Apple computer", that's what it will be. So, it won't be able to run "the old software". So the heck what? This is how things evolve. They can and will call it what they want. If they call it Mac touch, like I think they will, then I hope that will put this crappy discussion to bed. Whatever they call it.
To be truthful this is all marketing. It will be "a touch-screen Apple computer", that's what it will be. So, it won't be able to run "the old software". So the heck what? This is how things evolve. They can and will call it what they want. If they call it Mac touch, like I think they will, then I hope that will put this crappy discussion to bed. Whatever they call it.
Funny but I find this thread far from being crap. For me it is great to see the different visions people have for this device. From physical size to software to hardware supplied it is interesting to see what different people imagine is the ideal tablet for them.
Funny but I find this thread far from being crap. For me it is great to see the different visions people have for this device. From physical size to software to hardware supplied it is interesting to see what different people imagine is the ideal tablet for them.
Dave
For the last several hours I've gone back in time to pre 2007 to closely examine mockups and opinions on what the "iPhone" was supposed to be like. While some got in the ballpark, altogether people ended not expecting what they saw then Steve debuted the device.
Wanna bet the same thing is going to happen again in a couple of months?
My view of this device is that it must fill a void between desktops and laptops. The way I see this device is that it must be a combo of these 2 different elements:
1. the Mac Air, minus the keyboard and slightly less powerful
2. the Iphone, minus the telephone and much more powerful
But I feel that this device must fill a void that none of these prodcuts fill -- I think it must be viewed as a peripheral to your desktop.. rather than a full fledged laptop/Notebook or even just a weak laptop notebook.
I think the way it should be viewed is as a super keyboard really. A keyboard that is so advanced you don't need to type. Think of it as a keyboard for the artistic side of your brain. And really.. when you think about it.. a keyboard is soooo Microsoft if you know what i mean. I believe this should be a device that allows people to use the tech for the Iphone to allow people to interact with their computers in a way they never have before. As well as freeing them from their computers as they never have before.
I am someone who has a desktop but doesn't need a full fledged laptop. And being that I am an artist I would love a high caliber device that allows me to interact with my PC more intuitively than a keyboard. But because I am not a big time artist it is difficult for me to justify spending so much money on a device JUST used for that purpose. Having all the other capabilities Apple mobile devices have available would make it much more worthwhile than just a dedicated artist input. Plus, because Apple is so great with UI they could make all kinds of great features to use this for additionally.
Also key is that from my understanding this device will be like the Iphone in that ii will only be able to run one app at a time. This is another great reason why it would be so perfect as a super peripheral.. because this limitation would not be a problem if using it in conjunction with your desktop often. Think of it like adding another limb to a body. Alone, one limb that does something isn't that impressive.. but adding more functionality to an already existing PC would be great. Think of it like modular computing.
I really hope Apple is going this direction. I think this could be the difference between the success and failure of the device.
For the last several hours I've gone back in time to pre 2007 to closely examine mockups and opinions on what the "iPhone" was supposed to be like. While some got in the ballpark, altogether people ended not expecting what they saw then Steve debuted the device.
It was fun though to digest all the different ideas no? Let's face it you do see some great ideas on the forum. It is what makes the speculation so interesting in Future Hardware.
Quote:
Wanna bet the same thing is going to happen again in a couple of months?
I don't know about that we maybe closer in this thread than was ever achieved in the iPhone threads. Mainly because we know that iPhone directly descended from an APAi that was targgeting a tablet in the first place. So unless that was completely scrapped we have some idea as to what is up.
In that sense we are talking about software, for the coming tablet I'm hoping Apple pulls out all the stops with respect to hardware. For example some of the newest flip chip technology could lead to a very thin tablet with lots of room for a big battery. That is just one potential new tech too, much could be implemented that is relatively new to pit a lot of power into a small space.
Funny but I find this thread far from being crap. For me it is great to see the different visions people have for this device. From physical size to software to hardware supplied it is interesting to see what different people imagine is the ideal tablet for them.
Dave
I mean the discussion part where people are adamant it won't be "a real Mac". Without a keyboard it won't be a Mac etc. I think that's all bullshit. Then others say it will need to run "brand new software", therefore it won't be a Mac. Also a line of bullshit. People almost seem threatened Apple might dare call this thing a Mac, when it fact all the Mac really is is the kernel and some code. It's like saying OS 9 wasn't a real Mac, cause it can't run Leopard apps. It's called change guys, things always change.
Comments
Again, my deep conviction here with the OS of this device is that it will be a hybrid. It's not going to be a desktop OS converted for tablet use and it's not going to be a giant ipod touch. It will have feature and abilities similar to both types of systems yet be none of them.
It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better.
You want details? Your going to have to wait for the debut......or the brave spy who leaks info.
I agree. The only it can possibly work is for OS X to branch into a new version. Anything else is a fail as we?ve seen with other tablets.
the "evidence" for such a thing is actually evidence pointing to the inclusion of multitouch in the Apple notebook, iMac, and monitor lines of hardware. And at this point, this is expected in the next iteration of mac hardware anyway, so its really not that newsworthy. Heck, MS already had touch built into 7 (although it is crap and doesn't even animate, so you can't tell what you are doing until you have fully completed the motion - but it is there) if you have the proper hardware - and you know HP has already got the hardware lined up. And with that 1080P 30,000 contrast 27 inch monitor they came out with today for only $499, their hardware is going to give Apple a run for its money. So I expect everything apple sells will be multitouch before too long.
the end.
Again, my deep conviction here with the OS of this device is that it will be a hybrid.
I don't like the term hybrid because at their core iPhone OS and Mac OS are the same thing. IPhones user interface however could evolve easily to support a tablet and remain backwards compatible with iPhone.
It's not going to be a desktop OS converted for tablet use and it's not going to be a giant ipod touch. It will have feature and abilities similar to both types of systems yet be none of them.
Well a tablet running Mac OS cerainly not. In respect to a giant iPod Touch, it will have both physical and software similarities. I say this because apparently the current iPhone OS was a refactored Touch Pad like device.
So it certainly won't look exactly like iPhone as it will be extended with additional features. But you can't really call it a hybrid as it won't inherit from Mac OS. In this case the APIs are all new.
It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
We seem to be on the same wave length. The problem is running desk top like apps doesn't imply a hybrid with Mac OS. It makes far more sense to develop APIs specific for the platform. It is the best way to make sure developers adopt new methods is to eliminate the old.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better.
You want details? Your going to have to wait for the debut......or the brave spy who leaks info.
The lack of leaks bothers me. There is very little info on the new iPods or this tablet leaking. As to spys they need to be real brave now adays.
Dave
...It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better...
I kinda agree with this view; it'll run desktop apps, but primarily to just view them with maybe very limited options to create anything. Like the video editing available on the iPhone rather than iMovie.
Maybe an option to run iPhone apps on a 'vitual' iPhone, like a widget on the tablets larger screen? would that save re-wrting iPhone apps?
I don't see how meaningful creative input to a touchscreen could be achieved, I'd hate to write anything but short emails etc. on a touchscreen.
What exactly is this "Mac" going to run?
Software does not write itself.
Don't tell me? You're an avid Sherlock Holmes fan right?
I don't like the term hybrid because at their core iPhone OS and Mac OS are the same thing. IPhones user interface however could evolve easily to support a tablet and remain backwards compatible with iPhone.
Well a tablet running Mac OS cerainly not. In respect to a giant iPod Touch, it will have both physical and software similarities. I say this because apparently the current iPhone OS was a refactored Touch Pad like device.
So it certainly won't look exactly like iPhone as it will be extended with additional features. But you can't really call it a hybrid as it won't inherit from Mac OS. In this case the APIs are all new.
We seem to be on the same wave length. The problem is running desk top like apps doesn't imply a hybrid with Mac OS. It makes far more sense to develop APIs specific for the platform. It is the best way to make sure developers adopt new methods is to eliminate the old.
The lack of leaks bothers me. There is very little info on the new iPods or this tablet leaking. As to spys they need to be real brave now adays.
Dave
I understand that ultimately it is the same underlying OS we're talking about here. I guess when I say OS I mean the OS that is tailored for the specific type of device. It's not like their going to shove the iPhone OS or Mac OSX in it and call it a day. And the lack of leaks could really mean that finally Apple is laying down some serious internal security over this product.
But it's probably going to leak anyway minutes up to the debut.
Then again, there were no major leaks before the iPhone debut remember? There were just minor leaks with hints about the device. This could very well be a repeat of 2007.....but bigger!
Don't tell me? You're an avid Sherlock Holmes fan right?
Elementary my dear Ireland.
Ok, someone had to say it.
there will be no Apple Tablet device.
the "evidence" for such a thing is actually evidence pointing to the inclusion of multitouch in the Apple notebook, iMac, and monitor lines of hardware. And at this point, this is expected in the next iteration of mac hardware anyway, so its really not that newsworthy. Heck, MS already had touch built into 7 (although it is crap and doesn't even animate, so you can't tell what you are doing until you have fully completed the motion - but it is there) if you have the proper hardware - and you know HP has already got the hardware lined up. And with that 1080P 30,000 contrast 27 inch monitor they came out with today for only $499, their hardware is going to give Apple a run for its money. So I expect everything apple sells will be multitouch before too long.
the end.
Analyst claims first hand knowledge of Apple gaming, home media center tablet
Sat, 08/01/2009 - 09:56 ? Seth Weintraub
2611
Barron's is reporting that an un-named analyst has seen Apple's forthcoming tablet and expects it to be announced in September with a ship date around November. They mention that Apple is such a bellwether for the industry that all other manufacturing in this area has stopped until Apple releases this product. They expect the product to retail for $700-$800 and fulfill a variety of multimedia functions including AppleTV and Gaming.
One veteran analyst who has seen first-hand a prototype slate-style computer from Apple says the device could be announced in September for release in November.
Whatever the exact dates, the computer industry is so anxious to see what Apple introduces that it has held off on competing designs until Apple CEO Steve Jobs gives the device his final blessing. "It's close enough now to a final design that in Asia, there's no other product in the waiting room or in the bullpen," said the analyst. "There are dozens of ODMs [original device makers] making products for Lenovo and other PC makers that are all waiting to see what the Apple product is."
The new device, which may retail for $699 to $799, could fulfill a variety of multimedia functions currently taken up by a gaggle of individual consumer electronics devices. It could be a home media center, somewhat like the current Apple TV, and it could be a gaming machine, opines Jon Peddie, head of Jon Peddie Research in Tiburon, Calif. "Gaming will be a big part of what this is about," he adds.
The machine impresses with its display of hi-def video content, says the veteran analyst, who asked not to be identified. "It's better than the average movie experience, when you hold this thing in your hands."
...
A second source confirmed to me that news of the new device "is all over the supply chain in Asia." The biggest question at this point, and the least understood by anyone outside Apple, is whether the company's App Store will be the exclusive distribution point for software for this device.
As Steve Jobs says, it's the software that defines these things.
Is anyone excited about this thing yet?
http://www.9to5mac.com/apple-tablet-september-barrons
Your living in denial dude....it's not healthy. You can't stare at the giant meteor hurtling toward you and say "it's not real....therefore I will not be obliterated by it" and expect to live.
Then again, it would be amusing to see you try.
It is going to be able to run desktop like applications with the ability to open desktop files but the interface for the apps are going to be different.
Likewise, iphone apps will also be able to run on it but of course it will not exactly be the same....they'll run better.
I doubt both of these statements.
Desktop Apps would suck.
Any un-modified desktop application would be poor on a tablet.
Imagine the simple act of typing into a text box. The virtual on-screen keyboard pops up - and it has to do so without obscuring the area we are typing into.
Desktop apps demand all manner of inputs, how do you alt-click on a tablet?
And commercially, what motivation does Apple have for releasing this sub-par desktop experience?
iPhone Apps would suck.
No iPhone application is designed for a large screen.
Simply scaling-up the application would make it look terrible. Bitmaps would blur.
Running an iPhone app within a window would be equally unsatisfactory.
If Apple release this device, it will be a new class of product with its own custom user interface.
Yes it will be OS X underneath, Yes Cocoa will the glue between the code and the interface. But not a Mac, and not iPhone OS, and not designed to run software from either.
This will be a change of direction for Apple. Who normally enter a market by taking an existing class of project and making something better.
If it is going to happen at all this will be something quite new.
C.
If it is going to happen at all this will be something quite new.
C.
Hey, I'll be totally up for that.
If Apple release this device, it will be a new class of product with its own custom user interface.
Yes it will be OS X underneath, Yes Cocoa will the glue between the code and the interface. But not a Mac, and not iPhone OS, and not designed to run software from either.
It won't be Mac as we know it, currently, but it will be Mac. Mac OS X touch, namely. Gestures will replace keyboard shortcuts.
It won't be Mac as we know it, currently, but it will be Mac. Mac OS X touch, namely. Gestures will replace keyboard shortcuts.
I agree that it will run a variety of OS X - with touch gestures.
But it will not be able to run un-modified Macintosh applications.
So they can not call it a Mac.
C.
Well you blew it in the first line of this post! I will be the first to say I'm looking for something more like a big iPod Touch rather than a scaled down Mac notebook.
History says otherwise.
When I here BS like the above I wonder if people even have a clue as to how powerful the current Touch based OS is or how easy extending it to support more features will be. I suspect it will be far easier for Apple to extend the Touch OS for more powerful devices than it will be to trim Mac OS for a new product. Beyond that I don't think Apple would spin it's wheels with development of the robust OS that is in iaphone with out plans to use it else where. We are talking a huge development effort that needs to be leveraged on more products.
Yeah and those APIs run under what? Let's here it Apples Mobile / iPhone OS.
The point you are missing is that is exactly what they have done with Touch. So what would be the point in making the Mac APIs even more complex? In any event you fail to realize how difficult doing what you describe is, especially keeping it compatible with existing software.
1.
Newton didn't fail it got axed. Big difference.
2.
Since we are talking about failures here, every tablet brought to market up till this time has been a failure. Every single one. Part of that is due to the use of an OS API simply not suitable for the job.
3.
Touch is a successful tablet API right now, extending it to support larger devices would lead to rapid user acceptance. It has proven to be suitable for the job.
4.
Both Touch and Mac OSes are based on the same underlying code so in a way this arguement is a bit silly. It is really a discussion about APIs for user apps. One good thing about Touch is that there is no legacy APIs to be supported.
5.
A touch device running Mac OS is a very bad idea if current programs designed for desktop interfaces can run on it. Going iPhone derived for the OS eliminates the possibility of running apps that don't work on the tablet. Apple needs a platfom for tablets that breaks from the past.
Yes it was which should make it obvious that something derived from iPhone OS is the likely development path. Think about it this project was shelved slightly to refocus on getting a cell phone out the door. This in effect means two years of solid development have likely gone into the OS since iPhones debut. IPhone OS is a trimmed down version of whatever this tablet OS was, it should be clear that capability beyound what we see in the iPhone is a real potential.
That remains to be seen, Apple has proven that it can screw up just about anything still. AIR is just the last example. Frankly there are even more ways to screw up a tablet. The most obvious way to screw it up would be to implement a poorly ported desktop OS on it. Really mucking up the hardware is an issue too.
Dave
Newton did fail and it got axed because it was taking Engineering resources away from OS X and the upcoming iMac. I remember walking through the massive crowd of 40 demonstrators protesting it's cancellation at Cupertino, in front of building one.
Newton did fail and it got axed because it was taking Engineering resources away from OS X and the upcoming iMac.
The need for engineering resources doesn't mean Newton failed. Rather it means Apple couldn't afford to dedicate time to the unit. At that point in the companieshistory they didn't have the luxury to continue development. Apple was bleeding red and a very drastic plan was implemented to take control of the issues of that time.
I honestly believe that if Apple really thought Newton was a failure they would have sold the division off. Instead they kept everything. Some of the IP in Newton they continued to develop for use on other platforms. Being cut is not the samething as failing in this regard.
I remember walking through the massive crowd of 40 demonstrators protesting it's cancellation at Cupertino, in front of building one.
Yes and the device still has a massive following. Well massive for a device canceled years ago.
In anyevent we really don't want this coming device to be a failure for Apple. I can already see though that in some eyes it will be seen that way no matter how it is positioned. My guess is that Apple will address the position many hold that all tablets have failed by positioning the device as a souled up iPod Touch. That is a Touch that can do video and other media better suited to a larger screen. This of course will make the device a failure in the eyes of the people expecting a Mac Tablet with Mac OS/X installed. It will sell like hot cakes though so Apple will do good.
More importantly because it is a Touch based device it will eventually find interesting software on it. Software that will cause the device to work it's way into corporate and business worlds. Just like iPhone and Touch have. It is a bit of a slow sneak attack. Once people realize the devices utility beyound the world of media consumption it will start to grow legs with alternative uses. It really is a bit of action from the IPhone playbook.
Dave
I agree that it will run a variety of OS X - with touch gestures.
But it will not be able to run un-modified Macintosh applications.
So they can not call it a Mac.
C.
To be truthful this is all marketing. It will be "a touch-screen Apple computer", that's what it will be. So, it won't be able to run "the old software". So the heck what? This is how things evolve. They can and will call it what they want. If they call it Mac touch, like I think they will, then I hope that will put this crappy discussion to bed. Whatever they call it.
To be truthful this is all marketing. It will be "a touch-screen Apple computer", that's what it will be. So, it won't be able to run "the old software". So the heck what? This is how things evolve. They can and will call it what they want. If they call it Mac touch, like I think they will, then I hope that will put this crappy discussion to bed. Whatever they call it.
Funny but I find this thread far from being crap. For me it is great to see the different visions people have for this device. From physical size to software to hardware supplied it is interesting to see what different people imagine is the ideal tablet for them.
Dave
Funny but I find this thread far from being crap. For me it is great to see the different visions people have for this device. From physical size to software to hardware supplied it is interesting to see what different people imagine is the ideal tablet for them.
Dave
For the last several hours I've gone back in time to pre 2007 to closely examine mockups and opinions on what the "iPhone" was supposed to be like. While some got in the ballpark, altogether people ended not expecting what they saw then Steve debuted the device.
Wanna bet the same thing is going to happen again in a couple of months?
1. the Mac Air, minus the keyboard and slightly less powerful
2. the Iphone, minus the telephone and much more powerful
But I feel that this device must fill a void that none of these prodcuts fill -- I think it must be viewed as a peripheral to your desktop.. rather than a full fledged laptop/Notebook or even just a weak laptop notebook.
I think the way it should be viewed is as a super keyboard really. A keyboard that is so advanced you don't need to type. Think of it as a keyboard for the artistic side of your brain. And really.. when you think about it.. a keyboard is soooo Microsoft if you know what i mean. I believe this should be a device that allows people to use the tech for the Iphone to allow people to interact with their computers in a way they never have before. As well as freeing them from their computers as they never have before.
I am someone who has a desktop but doesn't need a full fledged laptop. And being that I am an artist I would love a high caliber device that allows me to interact with my PC more intuitively than a keyboard. But because I am not a big time artist it is difficult for me to justify spending so much money on a device JUST used for that purpose. Having all the other capabilities Apple mobile devices have available would make it much more worthwhile than just a dedicated artist input. Plus, because Apple is so great with UI they could make all kinds of great features to use this for additionally.
Also key is that from my understanding this device will be like the Iphone in that ii will only be able to run one app at a time. This is another great reason why it would be so perfect as a super peripheral.. because this limitation would not be a problem if using it in conjunction with your desktop often. Think of it like adding another limb to a body. Alone, one limb that does something isn't that impressive.. but adding more functionality to an already existing PC would be great. Think of it like modular computing.
I really hope Apple is going this direction. I think this could be the difference between the success and failure of the device.
For the last several hours I've gone back in time to pre 2007 to closely examine mockups and opinions on what the "iPhone" was supposed to be like. While some got in the ballpark, altogether people ended not expecting what they saw then Steve debuted the device.
It was fun though to digest all the different ideas no? Let's face it you do see some great ideas on the forum. It is what makes the speculation so interesting in Future Hardware.
Wanna bet the same thing is going to happen again in a couple of months?
I don't know about that we maybe closer in this thread than was ever achieved in the iPhone threads. Mainly because we know that iPhone directly descended from an APAi that was targgeting a tablet in the first place. So unless that was completely scrapped we have some idea as to what is up.
In that sense we are talking about software, for the coming tablet I'm hoping Apple pulls out all the stops with respect to hardware. For example some of the newest flip chip technology could lead to a very thin tablet with lots of room for a big battery. That is just one potential new tech too, much could be implemented that is relatively new to pit a lot of power into a small space.
Dave
Funny but I find this thread far from being crap. For me it is great to see the different visions people have for this device. From physical size to software to hardware supplied it is interesting to see what different people imagine is the ideal tablet for them.
Dave
I mean the discussion part where people are adamant it won't be "a real Mac". Without a keyboard it won't be a Mac etc. I think that's all bullshit. Then others say it will need to run "brand new software", therefore it won't be a Mac. Also a line of bullshit. People almost seem threatened Apple might dare call this thing a Mac, when it fact all the Mac really is is the kernel and some code. It's like saying OS 9 wasn't a real Mac, cause it can't run Leopard apps. It's called change guys, things always change.