What could be?
As we await for the impending release of new Powermacs, we think of what could be if Apple chose a different path in processors and what could be the future. There are a lot of sites now reporting that 800, 933 and dual 1 GHz G4s are being released on Tuesday, which would definitely disappoint a lot of Mac users out there. I think it's time we take a look at a few things.
First I want to mention that Motorola's MPC8450, the embedded version of the G5 (85XX) is indeed shipping NOW. If you look at Motorola's website you can in fact see this. This is good news for Apple's G5, and also contradicts the previous information that the MPC8450 would not ship until the second half of this year.
Now, I would like to point you to some conflicting information I found at geek.com.
<a href="http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g4.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g4.htm</a>;
Scroll down and find the Apollo listed at 1000 and 1100 MHz, scheduled for Q1 2002 or NEVER! The information seems i line with what we've heard from Moto and the likes, but the clock speed mentions also states that the chip will only go to 1100 MHz. many have said that we will be getting G4s up to 1.4 GHz or so. I think this isn't likely, and that these specs listed are more in line.
<a href="http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g5.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g5.htm</a>;
Take a look now at the G5. Again the information is inline with everything we've been told, including a Q1 2002 release, same as the Apollo. The clock speeds vary from 600-1600 MHz. Also, I'd been told about the expected release of a G5 at lower clock speeds than reported on The Register etc. at MWSF or sometime in Febuary/March by a Moto employee. He is not directly involved in the PPC division, however he has the contacts and can give me information. Everything he said about the G4+, including the scheduled release and specifics was correct, so I trust the info.
www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpcrdmap/roadmap-small.jpg
Now take a look at the IBM PowerPC roadmap. If you ask me it gets interesting when they mention those future processors. THe 1+ GHz chips mention Rapid IO, which I believe is also mentioned by Motorola on it's latest roadmap. Sounds like something that could be IBM's G5. Perhaps? Also the Ultrascalar 2 GHz+ processors look interesting.
Of course all this may mean squat, especially if all we find out Tuesday is a 133 Mhz speed bump. Then I ask, what happened? And what happens from here?
I think Apple has been stupid to stick with Motorola this long, and could've easily gotten IBM to create some great processors for them. After all, IBM creates some awesome processors for their own use, i.e. the Power4. I'm sure that IBM would love to kick some Intel ass with a blazin PowerPC for Apple to put in its products. Hey, I believe they could even beat Intel at it's own game, and be on top of the MHz race.
[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: TigerWoods99 ]</p>
First I want to mention that Motorola's MPC8450, the embedded version of the G5 (85XX) is indeed shipping NOW. If you look at Motorola's website you can in fact see this. This is good news for Apple's G5, and also contradicts the previous information that the MPC8450 would not ship until the second half of this year.
Now, I would like to point you to some conflicting information I found at geek.com.
<a href="http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g4.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g4.htm</a>;
Scroll down and find the Apollo listed at 1000 and 1100 MHz, scheduled for Q1 2002 or NEVER! The information seems i line with what we've heard from Moto and the likes, but the clock speed mentions also states that the chip will only go to 1100 MHz. many have said that we will be getting G4s up to 1.4 GHz or so. I think this isn't likely, and that these specs listed are more in line.
<a href="http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g5.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.geek.com/procspec/apple/g5.htm</a>;
Take a look now at the G5. Again the information is inline with everything we've been told, including a Q1 2002 release, same as the Apollo. The clock speeds vary from 600-1600 MHz. Also, I'd been told about the expected release of a G5 at lower clock speeds than reported on The Register etc. at MWSF or sometime in Febuary/March by a Moto employee. He is not directly involved in the PPC division, however he has the contacts and can give me information. Everything he said about the G4+, including the scheduled release and specifics was correct, so I trust the info.
www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpcrdmap/roadmap-small.jpg
Now take a look at the IBM PowerPC roadmap. If you ask me it gets interesting when they mention those future processors. THe 1+ GHz chips mention Rapid IO, which I believe is also mentioned by Motorola on it's latest roadmap. Sounds like something that could be IBM's G5. Perhaps? Also the Ultrascalar 2 GHz+ processors look interesting.
Of course all this may mean squat, especially if all we find out Tuesday is a 133 Mhz speed bump. Then I ask, what happened? And what happens from here?
I think Apple has been stupid to stick with Motorola this long, and could've easily gotten IBM to create some great processors for them. After all, IBM creates some awesome processors for their own use, i.e. the Power4. I'm sure that IBM would love to kick some Intel ass with a blazin PowerPC for Apple to put in its products. Hey, I believe they could even beat Intel at it's own game, and be on top of the MHz race.
[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: TigerWoods99 ]</p>
Comments
Okay, I'll bite:
I don't know, wwwork, what does a golfer care about macs so much?
</joke>
<strong>
First I want to mention that Motorola's MPC8450, the embedded version of the G5 (85XX) is indeed shipping NOW. If you look at Motorola's website you can in fact see this. This is good news for Apple's G5, and also contradicts the previous information that the MPC8450 would not ship until the second half of this year.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm having some trouble with this. I've seen this stated both here and at Ars Technica, but I've yet to see any actual proof. I've been to Motorola's website. There is absolutely nothing about the 8540 being available for sale. The last press release about it is from Oct. 17, 2001 which says it will be available 2nd half of 2002. The "Where to Buy" link on the product info page is simply their generic link to suppliers. I have checked two of their suppliers (Newton and Arrow) and neither of them lists the MPC8540 anywhere among the Motorola products.
Could you (or someone else) please supply some actual evidence that the 8540 is shipping? I can't find any. While I am a subscriber to the "G5s Soon" theory, this claim about the 8540 damages your credibility with regards to the rest of your otherwise well-argued post.
Okay, I'll bite:
I don't know, wwwork, what does a golfer care about macs so much?
<hr></blockquote>
I dunno. It's not like there's a famous golfer named Tiger Woods or anything!
About the topic itself: those next-gen IBM chips sound way cool, judging by the roadmap. But I'm not sure that I'm reading it right: do G3s have a "crossbar coreconnect"? I don't know what it is, but it sounds like some sort of MP-enabling tech. Perhaps they're talking about some other chip there, such as the POWER4.
OK then: who volunteers to tell this IT-peon what a crossbar coreconnect is? Hmmmm?
I think that you could be right about the cross-bar having something to do with SMP. I remember seeing a board called "Adirondack" that had two IBM Sidewinder G3s running at 733 MHz on a 133 MHz system bus, with DDR support, PCI and everything. Looked pretty sweet, although they were pricy.
The one thing that stands out is Rapid IO. Could this imply that IBM will also make G5s for Apple? Integrated SIMD unit and Rapid IO seem like they tie in with Motorola's 8500.
Another thing I'm interested in with the new towers is whether there will be an upgraded AGP. I know that one site mentions AGP Pro, however this is not a huge boost from the AGP4x. The upcoming GeForce 4 will use AGP8x, and since that will come to the Mac right away, will Apple go with AGP8x?
<strong>Hold on a sec, I'm on it.
Another thing I'm interested in with the new towers is whether there will be an upgraded AGP. I know that one site mentions AGP Pro, however this is not a huge boost from the AGP4x. The upcoming GeForce 4 will use AGP8x, and since that will come to the Mac right away, will Apple go with AGP8x?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I certainly hope so...or maybe they'll hit us with AGP8x Pro!
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01M98655"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01M98655</a>;
<strong>Follow the yellow brick road.
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01M98655"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01 M98655</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
Does'nt say anywhere that it's available, just a few details on the chip, it does'nt even give all the data that are given for the other chips, such as power dissipation, because that needs to be measured.
Michael
Michael
<strong>Follow the yellow brick road.
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01M98655"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01 M98655</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
Two things wrong:
1. It says 600 - 1000 Mhz, not 1600MHz.
2. Clicking where to buy only lists generic list of dealers that sell Motorola processors. It was asked for an actual link selling the 8540.
They aren't scheduled to be ready for sale until 3-4Q 2002.
However, you can pre-order as many as you want.
Motorola's own press release says 2H 2002, so I'm inclined that Moto is trying to stack up a bunch of preorders for the 8540.
Also, Motorola states that 8540 is the first 85xx chip, so if the 8500 is coming, it is coming AFTER the 8540.
If I had to guess, I'd say that Powermac gets Apollos this spring, and G5's in the fall '02 at the earliest, and 2003 at the latest.
Jet
<strong>As for a selling link, as far as I'm concerned that web page makes it clear which MPC8XXX chips are available right now. So that's the proof that it is available now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe that information is up because they officially announced this chip last October, and these are the specs they expect it to have. It is posted so that corporate customers can see what it will do, and if it will meet their needs, so they can design new products to incorporate it. In other words, Motorola wants to ensure it will actually have some customers ready to buy and use it when it finally does start shipping.
At the time it was announced, it was also stated it would not be available until late 2002. I have not seen anything from Motorola to change that. If it is shipping, it should be in somebody's parts catalog somewhere. At this point it looks about as available as an Xtrem 1200... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: Junkyard Dawg ]</p>
Also, Motorola states that 8540 is the first 85xx chip, so if the 8500 is coming, it is coming AFTER the 8540.
If I had to guess, I'd say that Powermac gets Apollos this spring, and G5's in the fall '02 at the earliest, and 2003 at the latest.
Jet[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Agree with you - we will probably see G5 very late 2002 or early 2003. (by the way, Moto said the 8540 will only sample by 2H 2002)
Due to a totaly new RapidIo bus topology implemented in G5, also a new North-South bridge (UniNorth) must be developed, because the current is not compatible.
Some have speculated with multicore G5 - for me not very plausible because the RapidIo from the begining support SMP, and Moto said it would be easy to implement 8 way G5 SMP system.
Remains interesting why Apple joined Hypertransport community, and not RapidIo. However the Nvidia is also a member of HT, and this could be the reason for future implementations of graphic cards.
If somebody have more infos about two technologies, please put some light on, because the HT is a daisy chain implementation and do not allow a direct communication between slave devices in contrast to RapidIo which is switched communication and allow the above mentioned communication.
regards
rooster