Apple's Schiller to angry developer: "We hear you"
Apple executive Phil Schiller has again responded to a developer's complaints about his company's App Store approvals, this time sending an e-mail to the co-founder of a prominent Mac development studio.
Steven Frank, of Panic, makers of Transmit, Coda and Unison, said on his blog that he received a personal e-mail from Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing after he publicly stated that he's boycotting his iPhone after the company rejected an e-book reader. Frank, who is not an iPhone developer, declined to re-print Schiller's note, but instead summarized his points.
"I haven’t sought Phil’s explicit permission to republish the letter," Frank wrote, "so I won’t do so here. But to summarize, he said: 'We’re listening to your feedback.' Not all of my suggested solutions were viable, he said, but they were taking it all in as they continue to evolve the App Store."
Schiller also denied a rumor that Apple is rejecting every ebook reader submitted to the App Store. Frank went on to describe Schiller's e-mail as polite and courteous, and said he was grateful that the Apple executive took the time to contact him.
"As I’ve said repeatedly, communication will solve this problem -- not silence," he wrote. "Let’s push that communication down from executives-to-bloggers to app-store-to-developers and I think we’ve really got a breakthrough."
In his original post declaring his boycott, Frank said he believes that Apple's approval and rejection of software from the App Store is sometimes illogical. He said when he first complained about Apple's policies, a lot of people responded by telling him not to develop for the iPhone -- so, he said, he hasn't. Frank's comments were on behalf of himself, and not Panic.
"I’ve reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this," he said. "The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I can’t participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: It’s Apple’s ballgame, and Apple gets to make the rules, and if I don’t like it, I can leave. So, I don’t like it, and I’m leaving."
In an addendum to his original post, Frank added that he is still unsure about his stance on the Apple and the iPhone.
"Upon further reflection, I think the true litmus test will be how Apple and AT&T formally respond to the FCC inquiry about Google Voice. That is due no later than the 21st, a week from Friday. That decision really cuts to the crux of the whole thing for me, and the great thing (for us users) is everyone has to come out and say something about what happened. No more speculation."
Last week, Schiller made an unprecedented move in responding to Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball about the handling of an iPhone dictionary application's approval.
Steven Frank, of Panic, makers of Transmit, Coda and Unison, said on his blog that he received a personal e-mail from Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing after he publicly stated that he's boycotting his iPhone after the company rejected an e-book reader. Frank, who is not an iPhone developer, declined to re-print Schiller's note, but instead summarized his points.
"I haven’t sought Phil’s explicit permission to republish the letter," Frank wrote, "so I won’t do so here. But to summarize, he said: 'We’re listening to your feedback.' Not all of my suggested solutions were viable, he said, but they were taking it all in as they continue to evolve the App Store."
Schiller also denied a rumor that Apple is rejecting every ebook reader submitted to the App Store. Frank went on to describe Schiller's e-mail as polite and courteous, and said he was grateful that the Apple executive took the time to contact him.
"As I’ve said repeatedly, communication will solve this problem -- not silence," he wrote. "Let’s push that communication down from executives-to-bloggers to app-store-to-developers and I think we’ve really got a breakthrough."
In his original post declaring his boycott, Frank said he believes that Apple's approval and rejection of software from the App Store is sometimes illogical. He said when he first complained about Apple's policies, a lot of people responded by telling him not to develop for the iPhone -- so, he said, he hasn't. Frank's comments were on behalf of himself, and not Panic.
"I’ve reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this," he said. "The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I can’t participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: It’s Apple’s ballgame, and Apple gets to make the rules, and if I don’t like it, I can leave. So, I don’t like it, and I’m leaving."
In an addendum to his original post, Frank added that he is still unsure about his stance on the Apple and the iPhone.
"Upon further reflection, I think the true litmus test will be how Apple and AT&T formally respond to the FCC inquiry about Google Voice. That is due no later than the 21st, a week from Friday. That decision really cuts to the crux of the whole thing for me, and the great thing (for us users) is everyone has to come out and say something about what happened. No more speculation."
Last week, Schiller made an unprecedented move in responding to Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball about the handling of an iPhone dictionary application's approval.
Comments
I also think that Apple is underestimating the backlash they are in line for if they keep this crap up. Even MS Windows users joke and poke fun of MS as if they can't get anything right. How much longer before Apple is known as something far worse because of their lack of clear communication which comes off as arrogant and controlling.
Phil may hear the developers, but I wonder if they are listening.
I also wouldn't expect to know anything after the 21st. Can't all parties involved file for a privacy provision? I am not very sure how that works. We could be in the dark for a while on all that.
What they didn't know was that they'd have thousands of submissions each month. So they had to scramble to build a system that could manage the load, and trust employees to make decisions on their own using ambiguous guidelines without any real oversight.
Add that to Apples long standing policy of remaining mute about problems until they have a solution in mind, and you get a lot of pissed of developers.
Schiller's involvement is a great sign that things will be improving.
I hope.
Apple has really gotten themselves into a mess. From the outset of the App Store, they knew that they had to maintain content standards similar to the iTunes store, they knew that they had to keep AT&T happy (and other carriers around the globe), and they knew that they wanted LOTS of Apps.
What they didn't know was that they'd have thousands of submissions each month. So they had to scramble to build a system that could manage the load, and trust employees to make decisions on their own using ambiguous guidelines without any real oversight.
Add that to Apples long standing policy of remaining mute about problems until they have a solution in mind, and you get a lot of pissed of developers.
Schiller's involvement is a great sign that things will be improving.
I hope.
+1. But we can't be too sure yet..
but apple is afraid to hire more people because it will reduce profit growth
yawn, more moaning by iPhone developers..... no, wait they haven't produced anything for the iPhone.
put down the kool aid, dude!
put down the kool aid, dude!
Except he's right. Many of the folks moaning aren't iPhone devs. Frankly, I couldn't care any less that Steven Frank isn't an iPhone dev if he thinks the app store is "toxic" in comparison to mobile development was prior to the iPhone.
There ARE ebook readers on the iphone, I have three loaded now. Stanza, Bookshelf and Kindle.
I'm going back to playing Sid Meier's Civilization Revolution on my iPhone...
...what was that about scaring off developers?
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz
Let's keep this all in perspective.
Microsoft takes years, produce crap, and people just put up with it.
Apple takes months, produce world changing stuff, and people complain like Heck.
I think that these small minded people are so happy that Apple actually takes some time to try and make things better, that they forget reality.
Kill the goose that lays the golden egg so we can get one sooner....Quick... don't think.... just do.
Microsoft has taught us well......
Just a thought.
en
"I?ve reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this," he said. "The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I can?t participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: It?s Apple?s ballgame, and Apple gets to make the rules, and if I don?t like it, I can leave. So, I don?t like it, and I?m leaving."
Ironically, I was about to publicly post the following for immediate release:
"I?ve reached a point where I can no longer just sit back and watch this. The Panic ecosystem is toxic, and I can?t participate any more until it is fixed. As people have told me so many times: It?s Panic?s ballgame, and Panic gets to make the rules, and if I don?t like it, I can leave. So, I don?t like it, and I?m leaving."
Its one thing to take your ball and go home. Its another thing to try to churn up some sort of junior high school style public drama over it.
Who really cares what some guy who's never written an iPhone app and doesn't own an iPhone thinks?
Here's the reality, very well put:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz
Let's keep this all in perspective.
While we're keep this all in perspective, let's remember that Michael Arrington (of TechCrunch) isn't exactly the world's most highly regarded blogger.
As the saying goes, "Ideas are not responsible for the people who hold them." However, people will still automatically put anything coming from Arrington or TechCrunch through their BS filter, and many will never get past that techcrunch.com URL.
""The iPhone ecosystem is toxic, and I can’t participate any more until it is fixed. "
Microsoft takes years, produce crap, and people just put up with it.
Apple takes months, produce world changing stuff, and people complain like Heck.
I think that these small minded people are so happy that Apple actually takes some time to try and make things better, that they forget reality.
Kill the goose that lays the golden egg so we can get one sooner....Quick... don't think.... just do.
Microsoft has taught us well......
Just a thought.
en
No, people don't just put up with it from Microsoft. Everyone is very vocal about Microsoft's fuckups, it's just that MS doesn't listen
As far as this developer goes, I agree he's being a bit of a drama queen about it, but maybe he needs to be. He expressed his views (which is what the internet is good for) and it got attention. Apple COULD have ignored him, but they didn't, and that's a good thing.
Developers are what made the iphone great. "There's an app for that" commercials are impressive, ya know? This guy might have produced something that would have made it's way on those commercials. He does raise some good points, and when Apple can please THIS guy, they'll please MANY more just like him, and that will ultimately lead to a better experience for iphone users.
So there's no need to hate on this guy.
Here's the reality, very well put:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz
Let's keep this all in perspective.
Too long, brain hurts, plz to summarize for us.
Except he's right. Many of the folks moaning aren't iPhone devs. Frankly, I couldn't care any less that Steven Frank isn't an iPhone dev if he thinks the app store is "toxic" in comparison to mobile development was prior to the iPhone.
There ARE ebook readers on the iphone, I have three loaded now. Stanza, Bookshelf and Kindle.
do they have pictures? a lot of the book apps are comic books or other specially made apps with pictures.
No, people don't just put up with it from Microsoft. Everyone is very vocal about Microsoft's fuckups, it's just that MS doesn't listen
As far as this developer goes, I agree he's being a bit of a drama queen about it, but maybe he needs to be. He expressed his views (which is what the internet is good for) and it got attention. Apple COULD have ignored him, but they didn't, and that's a good thing.
Developers are what made the iphone great. "There's an app for that" commercials are impressive, ya know? This guy might have produced something that would have made it's way on those commercials. He does raise some good points, and when Apple can please THIS guy, they'll please MANY more just like him, and that will ultimately lead to a better experience for iphone users.
So there's no need to hate on this guy.
Right On!
My father develops programs for his company using MS Virtual Studio, and is constantly cussing out the computer, and calling up MS or sending them little tid bits as to how to improve their development software. Let alone the Office 2007 change and Vista made him almost go insane. The company he works for is slowly changing to Linux infastructure since the devs that work for them have been so fed up with MS. So trust me, people don't just deal with MS, they complain and show their discontent with their wallets.
And that's where Apple sweeps up in the consumer world. People are discontent, and go to Mac. Problem is, the Apple side IS too constricting. You are right about the fact that its the devs that made the iPhone great (remember a time when Apple said "no third party software") I hope that they get their act together and re-do their App Store approval process. If not they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. At least with MS, you can have some sort of working software out there. On the iPhone, you may not even have that chance.
So yes, we need more people complaining to Apple too to loosen their restrictions. Let their system loose for a bit in the wild and see where people take it. Open it all up so people can use the iPhone (and more so the iPod Touch!) for more than what we are limited to now. Same with the computers and their prospective OS. I think it will be more beneficial for everyone.
As for me, I stay away from Apple. They used to be good and I used to be a die hard fan, now their heads are too big and strings too tight (It took them how long to give us back the matte choice? Also, still no decent mid-tower made from desktop parts?) I might come back when they "Think Different" again, because right now I'm seeing the same tactics as others only to a worse degree.
While we're keep this all in perspective, let's remember that Michael Arrington (of TechCrunch) isn't exactly the world's most highly regarded blogger.
As the saying goes, "Ideas are not responsible for the people who hold them." However, people will still automatically put anything coming from Arrington or TechCrunch through their BS filter, and many will never get past that techcrunch.com URL.
It's not by Arrington. It's by MG Siegler. Siegler's name is right there, at the top pf the article, in bold. And what he says makes a world of sense.
I'll reproduce the conclusion, though it doesn't quite do justice to the bulk of the article, IMHO.
-------------------------------------
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/09...m=tcrn.ch_4JEz
Conclusion
While Calacanis certainly has some valid points, I would argue that some of his points simply reinforce what makes Apple, Apple. By controlling the ecosystem surrounding their products, Apple ensures a great user experience for the majority of users.
And that’s really the key point: The majority of users. We can bitch as much as we want about Apple’s shortcomings, but by and large the public couldn’t care less about any of it, nor do they even know about any of this stuff. Does my sister care that Apple rejected Google Voice? No, she’s never heard of Google Voice. As far as she knows, all is well in the Apple universe because she turns on her iPhone and boots up her Mac and they work, giving her an experience that she finds superior to competitors’ products.
The fact remains that as long as the company continues pumping out high-quality products that offer this great user experience, people will buy them. Calacanis believes that cheap and stable products from Microsoft and Google will undercut Apple, but that seems to be the same thing that people have been saying for years about Apple’s products. Macs are too expensive, iPods are too expensive, the iPhone is too expensive — people are still buying them. And they’re doing so at or near record levels, which is stunning in this economy.
He seems to be suggesting that the premium market will disappear. But again, if it hasn’t in this economic environment, I don’t see it happening. Cheap, stable and open sound great, and they are great, for some people. But others are fine with paying more for what they consider a superior experience, and they will continue to do so.
And while Calacanis may have spent $20,000 on Apple products over the years, everyone that is not Calacanis has spent billions upon billions more. Until those billions stop rolling in, Apple will generally stay on the same path. Despite some of the rhetoric, Apple is not a totalitarian state, it is very much a democracy. It’s just that in this democracy, people vote with their wallets.
None of that is to say that Apple shouldn’t fix any of its aforementioned problems. With regards to AT&T and its App Store policies, it certainly needs to. But it’s humorously short-sighted to think that they won’t.
But Calacanis goes farther, “Making great products does not absolve you from technology’s cardinal rule: Don’t be evil.” That would seem to suggest that he believes Apple is making some of these mistakes with malicious intent. Instead, I would argue that the mistakes stem from the pursuit of making great products. They control the ecosystem because people left to their own devices would make the products less great.
That’s something that will be hard for a lot of people to hear, let alone understand. But I do believe it’s at the core of what Calacanis thinks makes Apple “evil.”
And that’s why much of this isn’t a case against Apple, it’s a case for Apple. Many of the problems Calacanis talks about simply aren’t seen as problems by Apple, and more importantly, by the public at large. Until that changes, there is no real risk to Apple.
In fact, I would argue that the only real risk to Apple goes back to the simple point: Great products. If Apple stops making products that are great, it will start to decline. If someone else comes along with a better product, Apple will decline. It’s that simple.
5 years ago, it was my belief that Apple offered a better product that got me to ditch my PC. And I’ll switch again from Apple if something better comes along. This isn’t some elaborate conspiracy in which Steve Jobs is tricking millions of people into buying his stuff against their will. They’re buying his stuff because it’s good. End of story.
Except he's right. Many of the folks moaning aren't iPhone devs. Frankly, I couldn't care any less that Steven Frank isn't an iPhone dev if he thinks the app store is "toxic" in comparison to mobile development was prior to the iPhone.
There ARE ebook readers on the iphone, I have three loaded now. Stanza, Bookshelf and Kindle.
I agree.
Especially using a word like "toxic" for something he has no first hand knowledge of at all. Kudos to him for publishing what Schiller said to him, but he created the problem in the first place.
The whole situation is more of a social or psychological problem than it is anything real. It's a direct result of Apple's policy of not actually communicating with people but staying silent and doing a good job. That works for hardware design reveals but it's always been a bad way to manage people and social situations.
I've been watching this from the sidelines since the beginning and the facts are that Apple has actually *not* really denied any applications for anything other than valid, rational reasons that anyone would be onside with, if they were in Apple's shoes themselves. The "developers" are the ones directly responsible for creating this mess by publicising the rejections they are getting before the appeals process is even started, let alone over. By criticising an opponent publicly, before they have had a chance to respond privately, and knowing that this opponent will refuses to answer publicly in any case. To me that's a cowards fight, and nothing noble or nice at all.
It's always the same story. Some developer gets a ridiculous rejection and appeals it. Meanwhile he writes on his blog about how outrageous he feels about this and all his techie friends with their high profile techie blogs join in and create a sh*t-storm on the Internet before Apple has even responded to their email. Eventually the wheels turn and the "rejection" is overturned but *that* news never makes as big a splash as the weeks worth of coverage of the "outrageous rejection." It's usually a one-off mention on the equivalent of page three of the Internet.
In the cases where the rejection is not overturned, it's *always* the case (so far) that the story the developer was telling about the rejection was not entirely true in the first place.
These developers are intelligent, very technically adept individuals, as are most of those that blog about them. That doesn't leave out the possibility that they aren't also totally selfish tards with a penchant for self promotion and gross exaggeration as well. Smart and capable doesn't always equal decent and reasonable. Quite the opposite sometimes.
Apple has really gotten themselves into a mess. From the outset of the App Store, they knew that they had to maintain content standards similar to the iTunes store, they knew that they had to keep AT&T happy (and other carriers around the globe), and they knew that they wanted LOTS of Apps.
What they didn't know was that they'd have thousands of submissions each month. So they had to scramble to build a system that could manage the load, and trust employees to make decisions on their own using ambiguous guidelines without any real oversight.
I don't know about the ambiguous guidelines and oversight comments seeing as I'm not part of Apple's approval group and don't know how that game works. And I suspect you aren't likely a member either so the comments are more due to what has been published by, often ticked off, bloggers.
but you are spot on that a key part of the trouble is that Apple has multiple issues including the massive amount of submissions to deal with and that is going to create backlogs etc.
As for Frank's comments, given that he's not an iphone developer, he's got some serious nerve getting pissed off about this or that being rejected. Its his right to refuse to get into the game right now, but to get it in his head that he's the one with the brains etc to tell Apple what they should or shouldn't be doing, tactless Mr Frank, seriously tactless. Especially when I don't see him offering any real suggestions of help just a lot of "you aren't doing this right. you need to do this better" griping
However, that's reason enough to cause Apple to sell itself and give the money back to the investors. With all the platforms available that allow developers and users to run any app on them that they please, I will expect to see everyone moving enmasse to these platforms in a few weeks.
Goodbye, impatient fools and let the door hit you on your way out. If you can't give Apple a couple of years time to develop it's mobile platform or allowing some mistakes to be made, then I have no sympathy for you. We'll see which platform becomes the standard in a few years and which will disappear for good.