No matter how good Snow Leopard's support for Exchange is, unless Apple completely reworks iCal there will always be a market for Entourage or Outlook. If you've ever used either of these for anything more complex than scheduling little Jonny's soccer match, you know just how weak iCal is. Mail is good, Address Book is OK. I can deal with how to-dos are handled. But using iCal is just plain painful. If I was willing to spend the money to upgrade my Office to an Intel native version, I'd switch back to Entourage.
</rant>
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B
If this has PST/OST file support and Excel regains macro support as advertised, those would be the clincher for me. My guess is that they are going to sell a lot of copies of this and further solidify the Office cash cow as the defacto productivity suite in the minds of a lot of people.
The problem with PST/OST files is that they are huge, monolithic databases similar to Entourage's. And that won't play well with Time Machine. Not a big deal for OST files if you are connecting to Exchange, because all your data will be safe on the server and you can simply exclude the OST file from Time Machine backups. But if non-server data (PSTs, POP, local calendars, etc) are in a single huge file, TM backups will be a pain.
Is there any reason to believe this new Mac Outlook will work with older versions of Exchange Server like 2003?
I am quite sure they will, but we won't know for sure until the release day comes. I do expect them to drop Exchange 2000 and earlier version support before. Typically, they drop support for versions that are two behind. Regardless, I am eagerly anticipating Outlook 2010 for Mac. I am currently testing Outlook 2010 for Windows and it looks and runs great.....for a beta. I am using the on demand version.....
This is a good move. I always wondered why MS chose a different name for Outlook on mac, but kept the other names the same. As long as it more compatible with existing systems, they'll do well. Office sold is money made for MS, regardless of OS. Apple has no software for sale on other platforms. Keep that in mind.
iWork only really works in a Mac environment. You can't port over your macros, and a lot of the design gets garbled or messed up when converting to Office. There are some nice effects done in Keynote that Powerpoint can't handle, and so mess up your presentation. Not great for a Mac-in-the-workplace flow. I can't tell you how many projects and presentations got messed up when I had to turn in a digital format to the instructor (and they wouldn't accept a .PDF or .MOV file) That or on the job, my presentation didn't look at all the way I wanted it to (forget embeded video!) Also, iWork is not as advanced as Office sadly. It looks nice, but that's about it. Great for students, not good in the work place.
But my big question is: When is OneNote going to come out for Mac? I would think it would be a popular app to bundle with a "student" version of Office, seeing how Apples are typically more popular with students.
I just wish that OpenOffice were a bit more ahead. They feel like they are at Office 2001 (between Office 97 and 2003).
I can't see this as anything other than good news for everyone.
The perception of Microsoft support for Office on the Mac is at least as important as the reality. And who knows, come 2010, Mac Office might actually be worth owning, if they follow through on today's promised features AND put back the missing cross-platform macro/scripting capabilities.
The best thing about Outlook.... is the integration with calendars, notes, email and address book-all open on one screen and easily accessable. The problem is, as usual with an MS product, it is poorly implemented and clumsy.
The best thing about this news.... is it will force Apple to revise their 4 apps, Calendar, Mail, Notes, Address Book and "combine" them into one seamless application, ie., one screen where everything is there for inspection.
I've always thought Apple's individual apps were superior to anything MS has produced, but I never liked or understood having to open multiple apps and flipping between them to keep my day organized and current with ease!
Trust that Apple will implement it a lot better than MS ever would.
I like the separate apps as Apple makes them. They are very light-weight and well integrated. Entourage is (like you said), clumsy but it's also such a memory hog that using it is painful. I'm hoping the Exchange support in SL is enough to really make everything seamless for the Apple apps.
I don't think Microsoft is capable of even pronouncing the words "simplify the product lineup" let alone accomplishing such a goal. How does one introduce a new SKU (with a year-old product name) to an existing group of products and claim that that somehow 'simplifies' things?
Currently there are 3 SKUs - Home & Student, Standard, and Standard + Special Media Edition. They'll be preserving the Home & Student edition when they add the new Business edition. Hence they will probably be obsoleting the other two previous editions.
So in the end, where there used to be 3 SKUs before the change, now there will be 2.
I thought Microsoft would be looking to get out the Mac software market to cut off growth yet - Outlook and Exchange were two of the key reasons to stay on the Windows platform. If the Mac has great Outlook and Exchange compatibility then the tie to Windows is gone.
Why would this be:
[1] Revenue - the Mac is profitable for Microsoft, so why not?
[2] Standardization of Office in light of increased competition?
The relationship between Apple and Microsoft is fascinating. On the surface relations are frosty, yet Safari (Mac) is getting full support for Office Live, Apple writes software for Windows, yet has never shown any interest in working on other platforms (which would be a strategic move if they were bothered about ?killing? Windows).
I suspect that Apple get on far better with Microsoft than Adobe.
I agree with Post #15 by christopher126. I am yet to upgrade to iPhone from Treo 700p that syncs with my Palm Desktop. I want to have my Palm Memos/Notes on my iPhone.
Given my present Entourage/2004 running on PB G4, I can't stomach the concept of THAT being the temporary replacement for my Treo 700p that syncs with my Palm Desktop somehow being replicated with iPhone...
2010 is a long time to wait for this Outlook replacing Entourage...
Syncing Notes is a MUST for me now... Attaching Contacts to Notes, Appointments etc. is possible now with PD, and Entourage, but not on Apple Apps...
Then there are Bento, Filemaker, Now Up To Date etc..., that can replicate some of the features of my present paradigm: Treo 700p that syncs with my Palm Desktop.
I'd love to know how others have dealt with a similar dilemma... I didn't get much help from Apple Store geniuses... They have a different mentality, more suited to consumers, light usage... And, I guess mine is more biz like...
But how will it play with iPhone etc? Will it be the same old Monkey In The Middle Game, where one is caught in the Blame Game between the Tech Support for both companies, never mind Apple Store, and has to rely on the Trickle Down Help from some Lists and or Forums, hoping that someone had a similar issue and feels like replying?
I like the separate apps as Apple makes them. They are very light-weight and well integrated. Entourage is (like you said), clumsy but it's also such a memory hog that using it is painful. I'm hoping the Exchange support in SL is enough to really make everything seamless for the Apple apps.
The 4 apps are light-weight because they're very efficient, and lack some features of Entourage. If Apple were to combine these into one app, they'd be more efficient than running the 4 separate apps. The only reason you wouldn't want these to be one app is if you weren't going to be using some of them.
If Apple were to consolidate the apps into one, I'd consider using it, but for now, I prefer Entourage, and I'm looking forward to Outlook.
Having the same name ("Outlook") for mail helps potential switchers feel more comfortable. Many users want to see familiar names on the software they're going to load on their new Mac when they get it home.
You can fix this today. Just rename Entourage to Outlook. Boom! Happy users.
I don't suppose that MS will put VB back into Excel this time around? We almost bought 2008 until we found out about this 'minor' limitation with its 2004 Excel work around. Needless to say we stuck with 2004 for the time being - as for Entourage they can keep it!
I don't suppose that MS will put VB back into Excel this time around? We almost bought 2008 until we found out about this 'minor' limitation with its 2004 Excel work around. Needless to say we stuck with 2004 for the time being - as for Entourage they can keep it!
They will but VB back into Excel. They have announced it already.
MS promised a while ago that the next version of Office would bring Visual Basic back. Nothing is mentioned about this in this article. If they don't I will have to stick to Office 2004, and will not be the only one. Anybody who knows?
Comments
Is there any reason to believe this new Mac Outlook will work with older versions of Exchange Server like 2003?
most likely since it's still in support. it will probably work with Exchange 2000 as well.
Exchange 2007 requires either Outlook 2007 or 2003 and higher. don't remember which though.
A cocoa version of outlook for mac?
Holy shit, Hell just froze over.
It took only 10 years for MS to make a cocoa application.
</rant>
If this has PST/OST file support and Excel regains macro support as advertised, those would be the clincher for me. My guess is that they are going to sell a lot of copies of this and further solidify the Office cash cow as the defacto productivity suite in the minds of a lot of people.
The problem with PST/OST files is that they are huge, monolithic databases similar to Entourage's. And that won't play well with Time Machine. Not a big deal for OST files if you are connecting to Exchange, because all your data will be safe on the server and you can simply exclude the OST file from Time Machine backups. But if non-server data (PSTs, POP, local calendars, etc) are in a single huge file, TM backups will be a pain.
Is there any reason to believe this new Mac Outlook will work with older versions of Exchange Server like 2003?
I am quite sure they will, but we won't know for sure until the release day comes. I do expect them to drop Exchange 2000 and earlier version support before. Typically, they drop support for versions that are two behind. Regardless, I am eagerly anticipating Outlook 2010 for Mac. I am currently testing Outlook 2010 for Windows and it looks and runs great.....for a beta. I am using the on demand version.....
iWork only really works in a Mac environment. You can't port over your macros, and a lot of the design gets garbled or messed up when converting to Office. There are some nice effects done in Keynote that Powerpoint can't handle, and so mess up your presentation. Not great for a Mac-in-the-workplace flow. I can't tell you how many projects and presentations got messed up when I had to turn in a digital format to the instructor (and they wouldn't accept a .PDF or .MOV file) That or on the job, my presentation didn't look at all the way I wanted it to (forget embeded video!) Also, iWork is not as advanced as Office sadly. It looks nice, but that's about it. Great for students, not good in the work place.
But my big question is: When is OneNote going to come out for Mac? I would think it would be a popular app to bundle with a "student" version of Office, seeing how Apples are typically more popular with students.
I just wish that OpenOffice were a bit more ahead. They feel like they are at Office 2001 (between Office 97 and 2003).
The perception of Microsoft support for Office on the Mac is at least as important as the reality. And who knows, come 2010, Mac Office might actually be worth owning, if they follow through on today's promised features AND put back the missing cross-platform macro/scripting capabilities.
http://www.officeformac.com/blog/A-N...for-Mac-Office
They seem to be addressing Spotlight and Time Machine issues in the 2010 edition.
The best thing about Outlook.... is the integration with calendars, notes, email and address book-all open on one screen and easily accessable. The problem is, as usual with an MS product, it is poorly implemented and clumsy.
The best thing about this news.... is it will force Apple to revise their 4 apps, Calendar, Mail, Notes, Address Book and "combine" them into one seamless application, ie., one screen where everything is there for inspection.
I've always thought Apple's individual apps were superior to anything MS has produced, but I never liked or understood having to open multiple apps and flipping between them to keep my day organized and current with ease!
Trust that Apple will implement it a lot better than MS ever would.
I like the separate apps as Apple makes them. They are very light-weight and well integrated. Entourage is (like you said), clumsy but it's also such a memory hog that using it is painful. I'm hoping the Exchange support in SL is enough to really make everything seamless for the Apple apps.
I don't think Microsoft is capable of even pronouncing the words "simplify the product lineup" let alone accomplishing such a goal. How does one introduce a new SKU (with a year-old product name) to an existing group of products and claim that that somehow 'simplifies' things?
Currently there are 3 SKUs - Home & Student, Standard, and Standard + Special Media Edition. They'll be preserving the Home & Student edition when they add the new Business edition. Hence they will probably be obsoleting the other two previous editions.
So in the end, where there used to be 3 SKUs before the change, now there will be 2.
Why would this be:
[1] Revenue - the Mac is profitable for Microsoft, so why not?
[2] Standardization of Office in light of increased competition?
The relationship between Apple and Microsoft is fascinating. On the surface relations are frosty, yet Safari (Mac) is getting full support for Office Live, Apple writes software for Windows, yet has never shown any interest in working on other platforms (which would be a strategic move if they were bothered about ?killing? Windows).
I suspect that Apple get on far better with Microsoft than Adobe.
CSo in the end, where there used to be 3 SKUs before the change, now there will be 2.
Thanks - I also got that by checking the MacBU blog entry (which probably got posted after the AI article).
Given my present Entourage/2004 running on PB G4, I can't stomach the concept of THAT being the temporary replacement for my Treo 700p that syncs with my Palm Desktop somehow being replicated with iPhone...
2010 is a long time to wait for this Outlook replacing Entourage...
Syncing Notes is a MUST for me now... Attaching Contacts to Notes, Appointments etc. is possible now with PD, and Entourage, but not on Apple Apps...
Then there are Bento, Filemaker, Now Up To Date etc..., that can replicate some of the features of my present paradigm: Treo 700p that syncs with my Palm Desktop.
I'd love to know how others have dealt with a similar dilemma... I didn't get much help from Apple Store geniuses... They have a different mentality, more suited to consumers, light usage... And, I guess mine is more biz like...
But how will it play with iPhone etc? Will it be the same old Monkey In The Middle Game, where one is caught in the Blame Game between the Tech Support for both companies, never mind Apple Store, and has to rely on the Trickle Down Help from some Lists and or Forums, hoping that someone had a similar issue and feels like replying
Thanks in advance for your time!
I like the separate apps as Apple makes them. They are very light-weight and well integrated. Entourage is (like you said), clumsy but it's also such a memory hog that using it is painful. I'm hoping the Exchange support in SL is enough to really make everything seamless for the Apple apps.
The 4 apps are light-weight because they're very efficient, and lack some features of Entourage. If Apple were to combine these into one app, they'd be more efficient than running the 4 separate apps. The only reason you wouldn't want these to be one app is if you weren't going to be using some of them.
If Apple were to consolidate the apps into one, I'd consider using it, but for now, I prefer Entourage, and I'm looking forward to Outlook.
http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/index.php
They could really use some donations due to the state of the economy, so if you download it, send them a few bucks.
There is also the free and very powerful Text Wrangler from Bare Bones Software.
http://www.barebones.com/products/Te...ler/index.html
Makes editing hidden and system files a breeze.
Having the same name ("Outlook") for mail helps potential switchers feel more comfortable. Many users want to see familiar names on the software they're going to load on their new Mac when they get it home.
You can fix this today. Just rename Entourage to Outlook. Boom! Happy users.
It took only 10 years for MS to make a cocoa application.
You got that right. I'm supposed to be excited because a year and a half from now using their Mac email client may not suck anymore?
Golly, I'll start marking the days on iCal.
I don't suppose that MS will put VB back into Excel this time around? We almost bought 2008 until we found out about this 'minor' limitation with its 2004 Excel work around. Needless to say we stuck with 2004 for the time being - as for Entourage they can keep it!
They will but VB back into Excel. They have announced it already.