Yeah, Tim, instead of asking for government handouts (which is, after all, our $$!), how about giving the schools and back-to-school parents a REALLY major one-time price break (instead of just an iPod Touch)?
Do you know what Apple's prices are for schools that buy Macs in volume? I thought not.
As far as parents, prices were lowered this year on Macs - around 10% for 13-inch MacBooks (now Pros), and some retailers are discounting them another 10% or more (I don't know about educational prices).
And as far as "government handouts", Apple isn't asking for direct money, they're asking the government to give technology funding to schools. It doesn't mean the schools will spend it on Apple products - Dell has a lot of the educational market as well.
I'd just love to see one of Microsoft's stores right next to THIS Apple location. If they want to compete head to head, let's see them play in THIS league.
I wonder what would happen if MS did decide to compete head to head with Apple? or for that matter if Apple ever tried to compete head to head with MS? Hypothetically I wonder who'd be more succesful in the other's marketplace?
Ah, you think that Apple is lobbying the government for more funding for public education so they can hire more teachers or buy PCs or provide better gym facilities?
I made a very simple point: If Apple truly: (i) cares about public education budgets; (ii) cares about kids who attend public schools (and their parents); and (iii) wants to sell more computers, it knows what to do.
Ah... I must of misread what you wrote. It sounded like you were accusing Apple of asking for handouts from the federal government.
Quote:
Yeah, Tim, instead of asking for government handouts (which is, after all, our $$!),
As for your point, let me ask if you'd also stand behind the logical extension of it. It seems your saying that education therefore should be funded by the benevolence of private companies? Perhaps Coca-cola can provide free sodas in vending machines and Kraft can provide discounted cheese! Then if we just get some nice company to provide text books for free we'll be all set.
Sorry but I'd like to keep corporations OUT of schools entirely. Discounts and offers like those always come with strings attached that are damaging to educational environments. Therefore, yes, I would like to see the government (federal/state/local) act as a filter between corporations and education. While the government is not infallible, I don't see them passing legislation that says "we'll give you (school) $1m to buy Apple computers" but rather "we'll give you $1m to upgrade your computer resources". Now obviously I don't have a transcript of discussion between Apple's lobbyists and government officials (wouldn't it be cool if we the people could see that though), but generally earmarks of that actually name corporations raise intense objections.
Regardless I'm with the others, 390k is insignificant in the lobbying world. I don't have exact numbers, but Microsoft by comparison spent $2m last quarter in lobbying.
Going cap in hand for stimulus money illustrates that, while Apple's board and execs may know technology, they know nothing about economics. Nerds tend to be that way. I worked for a biotech firm in 1982 and couldn't believe the number of Perot supporters with PhDs I met.
France and Germany refused to 'stimulate' their economies, regarding what we were doing as foolish. Both have now registered (slight) positive growth. Our grow remains negative in part because the stimulus sucked so much money out of the economy and put it into political pork and a still more massive debt to China. Even more important, Obama no longer inspires respect. His administration can't even run a giveaway like Cash for Clunkers, and yet they think they can transform health care in this country. Not one in business with any sense invests in that climate, particularly the small businesses who create most new jobs.
I live in Seattle. Last November it seemed that almost every bumper had a Obama/Biden sticker. In the over thirty years I've lived here, I've never seen election stickers disappear so fast. And what is true in 'blue' Seattle, is true almost everywhere. Since WWII, only one president has polled this unpopular this early in office.
$390K in lobbying? That's peanuts! That's 1/3 of one day of revenue at the Manhattan Apple Store also mentioned in the article. That's a few full-time folks. I don't even know why that's news.
This gets to the nub of this whole point. Whether you agree with a big company trying to get the government to push policies favourable to them or not, the fact is it happens, and Apple seem to be spending amazingly little on it.
The article fails to mention that the location of that store has a lot to do with its success as well as the iPhone. The GM Building where it is located is the Premier Class A building of NYC with the best location in all of Manhattan. SJ could not have made a better choice.
It is surrounded by Bergdorf Goodman, FAO Shwarz, the Plaza Hotel, the Pierre Hotel,and Central Park.
Also the cube itself is iconic in its own right. Tourists flock just to see "the cube".
MS should open its store up in the zoo across the street where it belongs.
MS should open its store up in the zoo across the street where it belongs.
Microsoft is a completely different kind of company. The ways Microsoft makes its money, do not require stores. In fact they try to stay out of the public spotlight. Microsoft makes its money in dark rooms, with companies held hostage by MS-trained IT staff who are fiercely loyal to the brand. CEOs, government leaders do not know computer stuff. Therefore, MS maintains its market.
Apple needs a store to sell to actual people, on the basis of the merit of the products. Microsoft could not operate such a store, because they do not make products like that. Similarly, Apple can't make money the way Microsoft does. They are in different industries, basically. The constant AAPL - MSFT comparisons are too literal. They are both in the computer industry, but that does not mean they are playing the same game.
The article fails to mention that the location of that store has a lot to do with its success as well as the iPhone.
Ugh what? I'm pretty sure the combination of words "5th Avenue Store" is synonymous with high sales, glitz, and success. If you can name a ritzier shopping district in NYC, please let me know.
Microsoft is a completely different kind of company. The ways Microsoft makes its money, do not require stores. In fact they try to stay out of the public spotlight. Microsoft makes its money in dark rooms, with companies held hostage by MS-trained IT staff who are fiercely loyal to the brand. CEOs, government leaders do not know computer stuff. Therefore, MS maintains its market.
Apple needs a store to sell to actual people, on the basis of the merit of the products. Microsoft could not operate such a store, because they do not make products like that. Similarly, Apple can't make money the way Microsoft does. They are in different industries, basically. The constant AAPL - MSFT comparisons are too literal. They are both in the computer industry, but that does not mean they are playing the same game.
The fact is that MS is opening stores. So are you saying the reason MS is opening stores is simply a diversion? Why are they opening them if they do not require them?
Ugh what? I'm pretty sure the combination of words "5th Avenue Store" is synonymous with high sales, glitz, and success. If you can name a ritzier shopping district in NYC, please let me know.
5th Avenue means nothing in itself. 5th Avenue runs for miles. Have you ever been to NYC?
5th Ave at the Empire State Building location does not carry the same clout- nor does 5th Ave near the Public Library. Madison Avenue is the real shopping street anyway. This particular location is at the crossroads of business, tourism, and ultra high income residential- completely unique.
I was the accountant for that building- it has always had one of the highest cost per square foot rates in NYC. It is 50 floors high and a block by a full city block long. Its finish is marble not concrete. It always has had an amazing presence in NYC ever since it was built in the sixties. Apple sits where, amongst other stores, Vidal Sasson once had his hair salon back in the mod sixties and seventies.
This gets to the nub of this whole point. Whether you agree with a big company trying to get the government to push policies favourable to them or not, the fact is it happens, and Apple seem to be spending amazingly little on it.
Fun little fact...
Q: Who was one of the major voices in D.C. pushing for U-NII (what eventually led us to open wifi as we know it today)
Sorry but I'd like to keep corporations OUT of schools entirely.
I wouldn't mind as long as they dished out cash without stings. They ought to. A well educated population is good for business across the board, period. Lobbyists should be banned and politicians should all fight for open standards and everybody would be happy.
Do you know what Apple's prices are for schools that buy Macs in volume? I thought not.
As far as parents, prices were lowered this year on Macs - around 10% for 13-inch MacBooks (now Pros), and some retailers are discounting them another 10% or more (I don't know about educational prices).
I know that the institution that I work for, in the education sector, sells them in the thousands. We get it at no more/no less than the Apple Education Store price. (Incidentally, do you know the answer to your own snarky question? I thought not....)
Prices were lowered, yes, but still out of reach of many public schools and their clientele. Indeed, if they were flying off the shelf as a result, Tim Cook wouldn't be complaining about the softness in school demand, would he? (To paraphrase, I didn't think so). Incidentally, please name the retailer that is offering a 10% discount on, say, the current line of MBPs.
It's not the amount Apple is spending on lobbying that I am questioning (responding to some of the sentiments expressed in other posts), as much as the principle of it: I am getting tired corporations seeking a piece of the stimulus pie for just about everything.
It seems your [sic] saying that education therefore should be funded by the benevolence of private companies?
I don't wish to sidetrack this discussion, since I've already gone quite a bit in that direction. So I'll answer this one question and stop there: No I am not.
Why would you ever go to a store that you can't get in the door when the products are available everywhere including online. Once you have seen a mac you have seen them all. Wow Apple people are just a bunch of lemmings.
The article fails to mention that the location of that store has a lot to do with its success as well as the iPhone.
Who would have thought that an excellent location and desirable products would help a retail company sell their wares? Talk about pointing out the obvious. I bet you were one of the people that were saying Apple is foolish for opening up such expensive retail stores at all, much less in such high rent areas, when companies like Gateway had already failed at it.
Comments
Yeah, Tim, instead of asking for government handouts (which is, after all, our $$!), how about giving the schools and back-to-school parents a REALLY major one-time price break (instead of just an iPod Touch)?
Do you know what Apple's prices are for schools that buy Macs in volume? I thought not.
As far as parents, prices were lowered this year on Macs - around 10% for 13-inch MacBooks (now Pros), and some retailers are discounting them another 10% or more (I don't know about educational prices).
And as far as "government handouts", Apple isn't asking for direct money, they're asking the government to give technology funding to schools. It doesn't mean the schools will spend it on Apple products - Dell has a lot of the educational market as well.
I'd just love to see one of Microsoft's stores right next to THIS Apple location. If they want to compete head to head, let's see them play in THIS league.
I wonder what would happen if MS did decide to compete head to head with Apple? or for that matter if Apple ever tried to compete head to head with MS? Hypothetically I wonder who'd be more succesful in the other's marketplace?
Ah, you think that Apple is lobbying the government for more funding for public education so they can hire more teachers or buy PCs or provide better gym facilities?
I made a very simple point: If Apple truly: (i) cares about public education budgets; (ii) cares about kids who attend public schools (and their parents); and (iii) wants to sell more computers, it knows what to do.
Ah... I must of misread what you wrote. It sounded like you were accusing Apple of asking for handouts from the federal government.
Yeah, Tim, instead of asking for government handouts (which is, after all, our $$!),
As for your point, let me ask if you'd also stand behind the logical extension of it. It seems your saying that education therefore should be funded by the benevolence of private companies? Perhaps Coca-cola can provide free sodas in vending machines and Kraft can provide discounted cheese! Then if we just get some nice company to provide text books for free we'll be all set.
Sorry but I'd like to keep corporations OUT of schools entirely. Discounts and offers like those always come with strings attached that are damaging to educational environments. Therefore, yes, I would like to see the government (federal/state/local) act as a filter between corporations and education. While the government is not infallible, I don't see them passing legislation that says "we'll give you (school) $1m to buy Apple computers" but rather "we'll give you $1m to upgrade your computer resources". Now obviously I don't have a transcript of discussion between Apple's lobbyists and government officials (wouldn't it be cool if we the people could see that though), but generally earmarks of that actually name corporations raise intense objections.
Regardless I'm with the others, 390k is insignificant in the lobbying world. I don't have exact numbers, but Microsoft by comparison spent $2m last quarter in lobbying.
Apple is actually rather apolitical.
France and Germany refused to 'stimulate' their economies, regarding what we were doing as foolish. Both have now registered (slight) positive growth. Our grow remains negative in part because the stimulus sucked so much money out of the economy and put it into political pork and a still more massive debt to China. Even more important, Obama no longer inspires respect. His administration can't even run a giveaway like Cash for Clunkers, and yet they think they can transform health care in this country. Not one in business with any sense invests in that climate, particularly the small businesses who create most new jobs.
I live in Seattle. Last November it seemed that almost every bumper had a Obama/Biden sticker. In the over thirty years I've lived here, I've never seen election stickers disappear so fast. And what is true in 'blue' Seattle, is true almost everywhere. Since WWII, only one president has polled this unpopular this early in office.
$390K in lobbying? That's peanuts! That's 1/3 of one day of revenue at the Manhattan Apple Store also mentioned in the article. That's a few full-time folks. I don't even know why that's news.
This gets to the nub of this whole point. Whether you agree with a big company trying to get the government to push policies favourable to them or not, the fact is it happens, and Apple seem to be spending amazingly little on it.
It is surrounded by Bergdorf Goodman, FAO Shwarz, the Plaza Hotel, the Pierre Hotel,and Central Park.
Also the cube itself is iconic in its own right. Tourists flock just to see "the cube".
MS should open its store up in the zoo across the street where it belongs.
Then if we just get some nice company to provide text books for free we'll be all set.
Seymour Skinner: We can buy real periodic tables instead of these promotional ones from Oscar Meyer.
Edna Krabappel
Martin: Ooh ... delicious?
Edna Krabappel: Correct. I would also accept snacktacular.
Maury
MS should open its store up in the zoo across the street where it belongs.
Microsoft is a completely different kind of company. The ways Microsoft makes its money, do not require stores. In fact they try to stay out of the public spotlight. Microsoft makes its money in dark rooms, with companies held hostage by MS-trained IT staff who are fiercely loyal to the brand. CEOs, government leaders do not know computer stuff. Therefore, MS maintains its market.
Apple needs a store to sell to actual people, on the basis of the merit of the products. Microsoft could not operate such a store, because they do not make products like that. Similarly, Apple can't make money the way Microsoft does. They are in different industries, basically. The constant AAPL - MSFT comparisons are too literal. They are both in the computer industry, but that does not mean they are playing the same game.
The article fails to mention that the location of that store has a lot to do with its success as well as the iPhone.
Ugh what? I'm pretty sure the combination of words "5th Avenue Store" is synonymous with high sales, glitz, and success. If you can name a ritzier shopping district in NYC, please let me know.
Microsoft is a completely different kind of company. The ways Microsoft makes its money, do not require stores. In fact they try to stay out of the public spotlight. Microsoft makes its money in dark rooms, with companies held hostage by MS-trained IT staff who are fiercely loyal to the brand. CEOs, government leaders do not know computer stuff. Therefore, MS maintains its market.
Apple needs a store to sell to actual people, on the basis of the merit of the products. Microsoft could not operate such a store, because they do not make products like that. Similarly, Apple can't make money the way Microsoft does. They are in different industries, basically. The constant AAPL - MSFT comparisons are too literal. They are both in the computer industry, but that does not mean they are playing the same game.
The fact is that MS is opening stores. So are you saying the reason MS is opening stores is simply a diversion? Why are they opening them if they do not require them?
Ugh what? I'm pretty sure the combination of words "5th Avenue Store" is synonymous with high sales, glitz, and success. If you can name a ritzier shopping district in NYC, please let me know.
5th Avenue means nothing in itself. 5th Avenue runs for miles. Have you ever been to NYC?
5th Ave at the Empire State Building location does not carry the same clout- nor does 5th Ave near the Public Library. Madison Avenue is the real shopping street anyway. This particular location is at the crossroads of business, tourism, and ultra high income residential- completely unique.
I was the accountant for that building- it has always had one of the highest cost per square foot rates in NYC. It is 50 floors high and a block by a full city block long. Its finish is marble not concrete. It always has had an amazing presence in NYC ever since it was built in the sixties. Apple sits where, amongst other stores, Vidal Sasson once had his hair salon back in the mod sixties and seventies.
This gets to the nub of this whole point. Whether you agree with a big company trying to get the government to push policies favourable to them or not, the fact is it happens, and Apple seem to be spending amazingly little on it.
Fun little fact...
Q: Who was one of the major voices in D.C. pushing for U-NII (what eventually led us to open wifi as we know it today)
A: Apple
Strange but true and totally unspoken.
Dave
Fun little fact...
Q: Who was one of the major voices in D.C. pushing for U-NII (what eventually led us to open wifi as we know it today)
A: Apple
Strange but true and totally unspoken.
Dave
I wonder why?
Sorry but I'd like to keep corporations OUT of schools entirely.
I wouldn't mind as long as they dished out cash without stings. They ought to. A well educated population is good for business across the board, period. Lobbyists should be banned and politicians should all fight for open standards and everybody would be happy.
Lobbying is a legal activity.
Wow, and all this time, I thought K Street was a rampant Mafia den!
Do you know what Apple's prices are for schools that buy Macs in volume? I thought not.
As far as parents, prices were lowered this year on Macs - around 10% for 13-inch MacBooks (now Pros), and some retailers are discounting them another 10% or more (I don't know about educational prices).
I know that the institution that I work for, in the education sector, sells them in the thousands. We get it at no more/no less than the Apple Education Store price. (Incidentally, do you know the answer to your own snarky question? I thought not....)
Prices were lowered, yes, but still out of reach of many public schools and their clientele. Indeed, if they were flying off the shelf as a result, Tim Cook wouldn't be complaining about the softness in school demand, would he? (To paraphrase, I didn't think so). Incidentally, please name the retailer that is offering a 10% discount on, say, the current line of MBPs.
It's not the amount Apple is spending on lobbying that I am questioning (responding to some of the sentiments expressed in other posts), as much as the principle of it: I am getting tired corporations seeking a piece of the stimulus pie for just about everything.
It seems your [sic] saying that education therefore should be funded by the benevolence of private companies?
I don't wish to sidetrack this discussion, since I've already gone quite a bit in that direction. So I'll answer this one question and stop there: No I am not.
The article fails to mention that the location of that store has a lot to do with its success as well as the iPhone.
Who would have thought that an excellent location and desirable products would help a retail company sell their wares?