Secondly, it's the cost that is a problem with going any larger than is necessary to get the job done. The device needs to be significantly beefed up to handle a drastic leap up from the current screen on the Touch and existing iPod content would translate poorly to such a screen whereas it could successfully scale up to something less ambitious.
certainly a lot of assumptions for something you haven't even seen yet. And most apps would "translate" just fine. My iPhone home page has messaging, calendar, contacts, photos, maps, app store, clock, notes, calculator, safari, mail, iPod and a game (plus the phone of course). Of those, only the clock and calculator would have no need for a larger display. The rest you would get more detail and/or avoid scrolling. The iPod in particular would be even more compelling displaying 720p HD content. And 720p HD content is certainly better than the 480p a smaller display would be constrained to. You can hold it as close as you want, you're not going to get the extra detail that HD has.
A 10" screen is 10.2" in diagonal and about 8.8" wide by 5.25" tall
Hardback books are about 6" x 9"
Paperback books are about 4" x 6"
A 7" display is about 5" x 7.5"
A 7" netbook is around 6" x 9".
The 9.7" Amazon DX is 7.2" x 10.4" is about the same size as 10" netbook dimensions: 10.3" x 7.2"
Both larger than average hardbacks.
The PSP is 2.81" x 6.63" with a 3.8" screen (3.74"x2.12")
The iPhone has a 3.6" screen. With the same bezel size you might be able to do a 7" screen at around 5.25" in width and around 8-9" in height.
That's about the limit of what you want.
A 10" panel is over 5" wide so it's probably at least an inch wider than an iPhone on its side and given the height not pocketable.
Either way, a 7" display has at least as much usable display area as a paperback. There's lots of folks reading paperbacks so they are obviously not too small for reading.
a 10" 720p screen has roughly the same DPI as the iPhone. If you stick to roughly the same DPI, a 7" screen gets you a 480p display.
I'm not sure if there's a 7" display that has HD resolution. I know there's a 10" display that does because Nokia just announced a 10" netbook with an HD capable display. It also has 3G.
It's a real mystery to me why some think a 10" tablet would have portability issues when a 10" netbook is sold specifically for that purpose. As are 17" MacBook Pros.
A 1280x720 display that's 10" diagonal would be 4.9 inches wide. An iPod touch type device built with one of these displays would not be anywhere near as large as a 10" netbook. Apple should be able to make it about 5.3 inches wide. the iPhone is 4.5 inches tall, and turned sideways, it fits in my pocket with at least 0.8 inches of room to spare.
It's not too critical if it doesn't fit. Netbooks don't fit in pockets either, and that's the market they are going after - people who carry netbooks with them. Estimates are that 33 million netbooks will be sold this year. I expect Apple to have a compelling alternative. Something that avoids the compromise of squeesing a tiny trackpad and miniature keyboard on a netbook. Just look at how awkward and cramped it looks to use one of those things
Clamshell netbook that converts to a tablet format...presumably at MBA thickness. Combined with an updated Inkwell it would be killer.
I was trying to think of an idea like this myself but I couldn't quite come up with appleish enough looking picture in my mind.
Apple says they aren't gonna do a netbook, ok but I can't see them releasing a machine that doesn't have a keyboard with a screen so I figure it's gonna be something that hides the keyboard maybe kind of like your illustration. I expect it to cost 999 and disappoint me by not having a keyboard.
I want a 10" macbook nano but if they don't deliver I'll just get an msi wind and hack it.
I am excited to see the apple tablet very much ! I truly hope it's not heavy. The iPhone's size is excellent as a handheld yet I find the screen a bit too small for web browsing and its weight to be a little on the heavy size.
Do you run everything on your home computer maximized? A tablet, even running iPhone OS would multitask, you wouldn't want everything to be full screen. I definitely don't need my weather app to be full screen... Certain apps would work better full screen and they could either just scale up (and possibly look poor as you suggest) or have new tablet versions written.
You are making way too big of a deal about the cost difference between the two sizes. As a recent student, I would personally take the the larger size even if it cost $100 or $150 more. Optimal size is debatable of course, but the price argument doesn't do it for me. The internal components would be the same, save for a larger battery, so most of the additional cost would be the larger screen. Maybe the larger size would also lower engineering costs because you wouldn't have to optimize the use of available space as well. The tablet costing as much as a macbook is just speculation on your part. Rumor sites with potentially more information available to them peg the cost lower than that (unless macbooks are dropping to the $700 range) for a 10" model. Of course in the end, it is all speculation.
The No. 1 item that you would tend to run full screen is video and that's where the problems come in supporting a larger screen. Increasing resolution of a video file causes a dramatic increase in file size.
I do agree that if the cost difference between a 6" and a 10" device were about $100, even cash-strapped students would pay the extra freight. Buit that would only cover the larger screen. What about the larger HD to accommodate bigger video files? What about beefing up the processor to handle more demanding video content? And of course, as you mention, you're going to need a better battery. My estimate is that the price difference between a 6" tablet and a 10" would be in the neighbourhood of $200 to $300, i.e. the cost of your typical netbook.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not arguing that Apple will never produce a 10-inch tablet. I am saying that is not the next logical progression for Apple's touchscreen line-up. It has been an evolution from the original iPod to the iPhone. I expect that evolution to continue and a version of the Touch with a 6" to 7" screen seems like the rational next move for Apple.
I am excited to see the apple tablet very much ! I truly hope it's not heavy. The iPhone's size is excellent as a handheld yet I find the screen a bit too small for web browsing and its weight to be a little on the heavy size.
I find it great for a smartphone. Heavy weight = Quality materials.
I really hope the tablet will work closely with Apple TV as a kind of remote and keyboard that will also allow you to surf the Internet from your comfy chair. That would definitely encourage me to buy one.
Sorry, but I really doubt that this will happen anytime soon..
Seriously, till now I don't see what's the hype of Steve Jobs introducing something. No matter how phenomenal the success of the iPhone, iPod and Macs, SJ is not part of the factor why they are successful IMO. Maybe, if SJ autographed on an Apple product.. that's a different thing..
What's with the "portable" issue anyway. You guys find it cumbersome to carry around letter sized paper and/ pads? Really? That just sounds stupid since we've been carrying around spiral pads for about 100 years now.
Also we've all seen this but Apple's vision of a tablet device years ago looks pretty sizable to me. LOL Thank god it already looks better than the "knowledge navigator".
The point isn't that a 10" device isn't portable. The point is that a 10" device doesn't fit into your pocket so you HAVE to carry it around.
If you have to carry the thing it should be more useful than a slate...and therefore should have a keyboard. I carried around a motion computing slate for a while and it just didn't fit the bill. I have a 10" netbook now that I use now.
Steve was forced out by the man he'd hired to run the company. He convinced John Scully to become CEO because Apple was a mess, fiscally and management-wise. Jobs understood that much -- he said the company lacked "adult supervision." Scully was meant to be that adult. He deserves credit for righting the ship, and Apple was actually quite profitable during most of Scully's years as CEO. What he lacked was much technological vision, though it should be mentioned that he championed the Newton, a product which many to this day recall fondly. So it wasn't all bad, by any means. It could be argued that the guys who followed Scully, Ameilo and Spindler, were the clueless ones.
You are mostly correct. Except for the "adult supervision" quote.
The story was told by an Apple middle manager, to remain unnamed,
Question: "Do you know how Apple is different from the Boy Scouts [organization]?"
Answer: "One of them has adult supervision."
It was a joke about Steve Jobs, not a statement made by him!
And, it was Mike Spindler (Diesel) first, then Gil Amelio.
Amelio wasn't a dynamic personality, but many claim that he deserves a lot of credit for Apple's survival, and setting the stage for its resurgence. Amelio cleaned up the organizational mess, streamlined the product lines, abandoned doomed internal OS efforts, presided over the purchase of NeXT to get their OS (instead of Jean-Louis Gassee's BeOS), and recommended the hiring of Steve Jobs
a 10" 720p screen has roughly the same DPI as the iPhone. If you stick to roughly the same DPI, a 7" screen gets you a 480p display.
I'm not sure if there's a 7" display that has HD resolution. I know there's a 10" display that does because Nokia just announced a 10" netbook with an HD capable display. It also has 3G.
It's a real mystery to me why some think a 10" tablet would have portability issues when a 10" netbook is sold specifically for that purpose. As are 17" MacBook Pros.
I have a 17" MBP and the very netbook you show...a 10" Lenovo. The point is that if I'm carrying around a 10" device it better be useful.
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A 1280x720 display that's 10" diagonal would be 4.9 inches wide. An iPod touch type device built with one of these displays would not be anywhere near as large as a 10" netbook. Apple should be able to make it about 5.3 inches wide. the iPhone is 4.5 inches tall, and turned sideways, it fits in my pocket with at least 0.8 inches of room to spare.
Measuring JUST the screen and no bezel the 10.1" display on my netbook is 5.25". Assuming 0.25" total bezel it's likely too big to fit in your pocket. The other part is that with a paperback the amount that sticks out of your pocket is fairly small. With a 10" display it's at least 9" long.
Quote:
It's not too critical if it doesn't fit. Netbooks don't fit in pockets either, and that's the market they are going after - people who carry netbooks with them.
Netbooks have real keyboards. This is why 7" netbooks sucked...keyboards that were too small.
Quote:
Estimates are that 33 million netbooks will be sold this year. I expect Apple to have a compelling alternative. Something that avoids the compromise of squeesing a tiny trackpad and miniature keyboard on a netbook. Just look at how awkward and cramped it looks to use one of those things
I can touch type on the Lenovo and it's a fully functional laptop. Heck, I even run visual studio on it and might convert it to be a hackintosh and use iLife. It's no worse than a G4 powerbook.
I won't bother carrying a slate around because it simply isn't functional enough. I sued to carry around a NEC MobilePro.
Given it appears you've never used a slate or a netbook for long periods I'd say your opinions are not based on any personal experience.
The No. 1 item that you would tend to run full screen is video and that's where the problems come in supporting a larger screen. Increasing resolution of a video file causes a dramatic increase in file size.
I do agree that if the cost difference between a 6" and a 10" device were about $100, even cash-strapped students would pay the extra freight. Buit that would only cover the larger screen. What about the larger HD to accommodate bigger video files? What about beefing up the processor to handle more demanding video content? And of course, as you mention, you're going to need a better battery. My estimate is that the price difference between a 6" tablet and a 10" would be in the neighbourhood of $200 to $300, i.e. the cost of your typical netbook.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not arguing that Apple will never produce a 10-inch tablet. I am saying that is not the next logical progression for Apple's touchscreen line-up. It has been an evolution from the original iPod to the iPhone. I expect that evolution to continue and a version of the Touch with a 6" to 7" screen seems like the rational next move for Apple.
you're sure caught up on the file size issue. a 720p display doesn't mean you have to use HD video, it just means you can use HD video.
And it's pretty reasonable to think that storage space will at least double vs the current iPod touch. And while HD video files for those who choose them are larger than SD video, other content size is the same.
I have a 17" MBP and the very netbook you show...a 10" Lenovo. The point is that if I'm carrying around a 10" device it better be useful.
Measuring JUST the screen and no bezel the 10.1" display on my netbook is 5.25". Assuming 0.25" total bezel it's likely too big to fit in your pocket. The other part is that with a paperback the amount that sticks out of your pocket is fairly small. With a 10" display it's at least 9" long.
I'm assuming apple uses a screen that is 1280x720, it wouldn't be as wide as a 10" screen that has a different ratio.
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Netbooks have real keyboards. This is why 7" netbooks sucked...keyboards that were too small.
it's not a real keyboard, even a 10" netbook has a reduced size keyboard. A real keyboard is 11" wide. A 10" netbook isn't that wide,, the keyboard has to be reduced. The keyboard on my MacBook Air is EXACTLY the same width as the main part of the keyboard on my MacPro
Quote:
I can touch type on the Lenovo and it's a fully functional laptop. Heck, I even run visual studio on it and might convert it to be a hackintosh and use iLife. It's no worse than a G4 powerbook.
I won't bother carrying a slate around because it simply isn't functional enough. I sued to carry around a NEC MobilePro.
Given it appears you've never used a slate or a netbook for long periods I'd say your opinions are not based on any personal experience.
I used them enough to know I'd rather carry around a 13" MacBook Air with a real keyboard and full size trackpad for a laptop computer. It's just the right size that it doesn't feel cramped.
And how do you know a slate isn't functional enough when nobody knows how it works yet? Perhaps your needs are out of the 80/20 rule. I suspect that it's be a better, more productive, lighter, easier to use portable solution for 80% than a netbook would. It's not supposed to replace a Mac, it's supposed to supplement it.
you're sure caught up on the file size issue. a 720p display doesn't mean you have to use HD video, it just means you can use HD video.
And it's pretty reasonable to think that storage space will at least double vs the current iPod touch. And while HD video files for those who choose them are larger than SD video, other content size is the same.
++
Also, consider that it is quite practical to stream video, so that you need not store [all] the large files on the mobile device.
This is great using WiFi: (HotSpot, Industrial Complex, Campus, friend's house, etc), It takes about 10 seconds to buffer enough data to start playing, You can scrub forward/back with a 5-10 second delay.
Even with 3G it is practical, if a bit slower: 15-40 seconds initially and 10-20 seconds to scrub,
I do it all the time, on my iPhone, in the middle of a park (at grandkids soccer games). I can access my videos, say highlights of prior games, stored on my MobileMe space. These same videos look acceptable when I play them via an iPhone connected to 46" HDTV... so they are available, wherever my iPhone goes, even though they are not stored on the iPhone.
It is not clear, but the existing 3GS may have hardware that assists h264 encoding/decoding. A new tablet would, most likely, have a dedicated chip to do this.
That's the beauty of the iPhone: You can take it with you... without taking it all with you!
I agree to some extent, but when he was kicked out in the 90's Apple almost went bankrupt. The stock was down to chump change, people were saying it was over for Apple. Then Jobs returned, they very soon after started making money and turned profitable again. Now with a stock price well over $150, hard to believe in just 1999 or so it was in the teens ($18-20).
Now people can argue this or that, but it is fact - with Jobs = success + innovation, without Jobs = failure, confusion, laziness, no vision or plan.
It would be fair to say that the direction of Apple changed under different stewardship. But the world was a different company back then and Apple was an immature company. There is now focus, integrated systems, experience, aggrandizement (Apple projects well beyond its market share now). So I would argue that Apple without Jobs does not automatically become "failure, confusion, laziness, no vision or plan".
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman
Jobs does not come up with all the ideas or make the commercials, but I guarantee you he see's, approves of, and perfects everything before it becomes public. And he is smart enough to hire top people to help him carry his vision and help him innovate. A leader does not have to do everything and a truly great leader (CEO, Founder) is smart enough to hire people around him to make him/her better and carry their vision and add to it.
Jobs is Apple and I worry when he does leave for good, Apple will slowly revert back to 1998 and being lost in the fog. I am not looking forward to that time, because we already allegedly have some employee's crying about things were "easier" with him gone these past months, that make the future seem scary. They need him to drive them and demand, sadly the inmates can't run the asylum on their own.
I agree that without Jobs things will not be the same in perpetuity. But I argue that the systems the culture and the ethos are so entrenched that it will take a longtime for that to ebb away.
By the way, you somewhat contradict yourself by on the one hand say that Jobs "see's, approves of, and perfects everything" and on the other-hand "A leader does not have to do everything". Jobs is smart enough to rely on the brilliant people around him to facilitate the vision that he is personally responsible for establishing on his return to Apple ten years ago or so.
There is no way one person could oversee the entire operation of Apple. I bet SJ reviews a lot of stuff though.
It is the culture, ethos and management at Apple that allows great things to happen. that is the fundamental reason. not one man - Steve Jobs.
If steve Jobs were not at the helm Apple would continue to be brilliant until that culture, ethos and management evaporated.
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Originally Posted by mrtotes
Who do you think creates the ethos, culture and leads the management?
The ethos would chnage with different leadership. If you've every read about SJ's leadership and management style you'd understand how much he drives the culture and ethos. .
Actually you are saying exactly what I am saying. And I agree with you except that I believe a post Jobs Apple will not be as flimsy (reading between your lines) as you suggest.
You are mostly correct. Except for the "adult supervision" quote.
The story was told by an Apple middle manager, to remain unnamed,
Question: "Do you know how Apple is different from the Boy Scouts [organization]?"
Answer: "One of them has adult supervision."
It was a joke about Steve Jobs, not a statement made by him!
And, it was Mike Spindler (Diesel) first, then Gil Amelio.
Amelio wasn't a dynamic personality, but many claim that he deserves a lot of credit for Apple's survival, and setting the stage for its resurgence. Amelio cleaned up the organizational mess, streamlined the product lines, abandoned doomed internal OS efforts, presided over the purchase of NeXT to get their OS (instead of Jean-Louis Gassee's BeOS), and recommended the hiring of Steve Jobs
*
Yes, I know it was Spindler-Amelio. I was listing them in alphabetical order.
Amelio deserves some credit, true -- if only for choosing NeXT instead of Be. How much of that was because Gassee asking too much, though? The rumors were in the neighborhood of $500 million, IIRC. Also, he was hired as a "turn around" specialist and it's questionable how far he took Apple down that road. And that Maglight comparison left many of us scratching our heads.
Thanks for the correction on the quote. I'd always heard that one attributed to Steve.
The No. 1 item that you would tend to run full screen is video and that's where the problems come in supporting a larger screen. Increasing resolution of a video file causes a dramatic increase in file size.
I do agree that if the cost difference between a 6" and a 10" device were about $100, even cash-strapped students would pay the extra freight. Buit that would only cover the larger screen. What about the larger HD to accommodate bigger video files? What about beefing up the processor to handle more demanding video content? And of course, as you mention, you're going to need a better battery. My estimate is that the price difference between a 6" tablet and a 10" would be in the neighbourhood of $200 to $300, i.e. the cost of your typical netbook.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not arguing that Apple will never produce a 10-inch tablet. I am saying that is not the next logical progression for Apple's touchscreen line-up. It has been an evolution from the original iPod to the iPhone. I expect that evolution to continue and a version of the Touch with a 6" to 7" screen seems like the rational next move for Apple.
More space allows for larger hard drive dimensions, which means lower memory density for the same hard drive size, which means lower cost per GB, which means they can pack more storage in for a similar cost. Perhaps they wont make a 10" tablet initially, perhaps the 10" screens Apple ordered were for something else, or Apple changed their mind about them, but I personally haven't seen anything that would make me think that a smaller size would be more likely. What we see as a likely screen size probably matches the screen size that we think we want, I wouldn't mind a 10" screen at all.
Comments
Secondly, it's the cost that is a problem with going any larger than is necessary to get the job done. The device needs to be significantly beefed up to handle a drastic leap up from the current screen on the Touch and existing iPod content would translate poorly to such a screen whereas it could successfully scale up to something less ambitious.
certainly a lot of assumptions for something you haven't even seen yet. And most apps would "translate" just fine. My iPhone home page has messaging, calendar, contacts, photos, maps, app store, clock, notes, calculator, safari, mail, iPod and a game (plus the phone of course). Of those, only the clock and calculator would have no need for a larger display. The rest you would get more detail and/or avoid scrolling. The iPod in particular would be even more compelling displaying 720p HD content. And 720p HD content is certainly better than the 480p a smaller display would be constrained to. You can hold it as close as you want, you're not going to get the extra detail that HD has.
No confusion:
A 10" screen is 10.2" in diagonal and about 8.8" wide by 5.25" tall
Hardback books are about 6" x 9"
Paperback books are about 4" x 6"
A 7" display is about 5" x 7.5"
A 7" netbook is around 6" x 9".
The 9.7" Amazon DX is 7.2" x 10.4" is about the same size as 10" netbook dimensions: 10.3" x 7.2"
Both larger than average hardbacks.
The PSP is 2.81" x 6.63" with a 3.8" screen (3.74"x2.12")
The iPhone has a 3.6" screen. With the same bezel size you might be able to do a 7" screen at around 5.25" in width and around 8-9" in height.
That's about the limit of what you want.
A 10" panel is over 5" wide so it's probably at least an inch wider than an iPhone on its side and given the height not pocketable.
Either way, a 7" display has at least as much usable display area as a paperback. There's lots of folks reading paperbacks so they are obviously not too small for reading.
a 10" 720p screen has roughly the same DPI as the iPhone. If you stick to roughly the same DPI, a 7" screen gets you a 480p display.
I'm not sure if there's a 7" display that has HD resolution. I know there's a 10" display that does because Nokia just announced a 10" netbook with an HD capable display. It also has 3G.
It's a real mystery to me why some think a 10" tablet would have portability issues when a 10" netbook is sold specifically for that purpose. As are 17" MacBook Pros.
A 1280x720 display that's 10" diagonal would be 4.9 inches wide. An iPod touch type device built with one of these displays would not be anywhere near as large as a 10" netbook. Apple should be able to make it about 5.3 inches wide. the iPhone is 4.5 inches tall, and turned sideways, it fits in my pocket with at least 0.8 inches of room to spare.
It's not too critical if it doesn't fit. Netbooks don't fit in pockets either, and that's the market they are going after - people who carry netbooks with them. Estimates are that 33 million netbooks will be sold this year. I expect Apple to have a compelling alternative. Something that avoids the compromise of squeesing a tiny trackpad and miniature keyboard on a netbook. Just look at how awkward and cramped it looks to use one of those things
For a 10" device I hope it's something like this:
http://www.macnn.com/blogs/2008/07/1...ok-tablet.html
Clamshell netbook that converts to a tablet format...presumably at MBA thickness. Combined with an updated Inkwell it would be killer.
I was trying to think of an idea like this myself but I couldn't quite come up with appleish enough looking picture in my mind.
Apple says they aren't gonna do a netbook, ok but I can't see them releasing a machine that doesn't have a keyboard with a screen so I figure it's gonna be something that hides the keyboard maybe kind of like your illustration. I expect it to cost 999 and disappoint me by not having a keyboard.
I want a 10" macbook nano but if they don't deliver I'll just get an msi wind and hack it.
Do you run everything on your home computer maximized? A tablet, even running iPhone OS would multitask, you wouldn't want everything to be full screen. I definitely don't need my weather app to be full screen... Certain apps would work better full screen and they could either just scale up (and possibly look poor as you suggest) or have new tablet versions written.
You are making way too big of a deal about the cost difference between the two sizes. As a recent student, I would personally take the the larger size even if it cost $100 or $150 more. Optimal size is debatable of course, but the price argument doesn't do it for me. The internal components would be the same, save for a larger battery, so most of the additional cost would be the larger screen. Maybe the larger size would also lower engineering costs because you wouldn't have to optimize the use of available space as well. The tablet costing as much as a macbook is just speculation on your part. Rumor sites with potentially more information available to them peg the cost lower than that (unless macbooks are dropping to the $700 range) for a 10" model. Of course in the end, it is all speculation.
The No. 1 item that you would tend to run full screen is video and that's where the problems come in supporting a larger screen. Increasing resolution of a video file causes a dramatic increase in file size.
I do agree that if the cost difference between a 6" and a 10" device were about $100, even cash-strapped students would pay the extra freight. Buit that would only cover the larger screen. What about the larger HD to accommodate bigger video files? What about beefing up the processor to handle more demanding video content? And of course, as you mention, you're going to need a better battery. My estimate is that the price difference between a 6" tablet and a 10" would be in the neighbourhood of $200 to $300, i.e. the cost of your typical netbook.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not arguing that Apple will never produce a 10-inch tablet. I am saying that is not the next logical progression for Apple's touchscreen line-up. It has been an evolution from the original iPod to the iPhone. I expect that evolution to continue and a version of the Touch with a 6" to 7" screen seems like the rational next move for Apple.
I am excited to see the apple tablet very much ! I truly hope it's not heavy. The iPhone's size is excellent as a handheld yet I find the screen a bit too small for web browsing and its weight to be a little on the heavy size.
I find it great for a smartphone. Heavy weight = Quality materials.
I really hope the tablet will work closely with Apple TV as a kind of remote and keyboard that will also allow you to surf the Internet from your comfy chair. That would definitely encourage me to buy one.
Sorry, but I really doubt that this will happen anytime soon..
Thank god we have Steve to push the creative process at Apple.
And thank god I don't work for him!
Why not?
So now will SJ do the unveiling? I say yes!
Seriously, till now I don't see what's the hype of Steve Jobs introducing something. No matter how phenomenal the success of the iPhone, iPod and Macs, SJ is not part of the factor why they are successful IMO. Maybe, if SJ autographed on an Apple product.. that's a different thing..
What's with the "portable" issue anyway. You guys find it cumbersome to carry around letter sized paper and/ pads? Really? That just sounds stupid since we've been carrying around spiral pads for about 100 years now.
Also we've all seen this but Apple's vision of a tablet device years ago looks pretty sizable to me. LOL Thank god it already looks better than the "knowledge navigator".
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...94928842683632
The point isn't that a 10" device isn't portable. The point is that a 10" device doesn't fit into your pocket so you HAVE to carry it around.
If you have to carry the thing it should be more useful than a slate...and therefore should have a keyboard. I carried around a motion computing slate for a while and it just didn't fit the bill. I have a 10" netbook now that I use now.
Steve was forced out by the man he'd hired to run the company. He convinced John Scully to become CEO because Apple was a mess, fiscally and management-wise. Jobs understood that much -- he said the company lacked "adult supervision." Scully was meant to be that adult. He deserves credit for righting the ship, and Apple was actually quite profitable during most of Scully's years as CEO. What he lacked was much technological vision, though it should be mentioned that he championed the Newton, a product which many to this day recall fondly. So it wasn't all bad, by any means. It could be argued that the guys who followed Scully, Ameilo and Spindler, were the clueless ones.
You are mostly correct. Except for the "adult supervision" quote.
The story was told by an Apple middle manager, to remain unnamed,
Question: "Do you know how Apple is different from the Boy Scouts [organization]?"
Answer: "One of them has adult supervision."
It was a joke about Steve Jobs, not a statement made by him!
And, it was Mike Spindler (Diesel) first, then Gil Amelio.
Amelio wasn't a dynamic personality, but many claim that he deserves a lot of credit for Apple's survival, and setting the stage for its resurgence. Amelio cleaned up the organizational mess, streamlined the product lines, abandoned doomed internal OS efforts, presided over the purchase of NeXT to get their OS (instead of Jean-Louis Gassee's BeOS), and recommended the hiring of Steve Jobs
*
a 10" 720p screen has roughly the same DPI as the iPhone. If you stick to roughly the same DPI, a 7" screen gets you a 480p display.
I'm not sure if there's a 7" display that has HD resolution. I know there's a 10" display that does because Nokia just announced a 10" netbook with an HD capable display. It also has 3G.
It's a real mystery to me why some think a 10" tablet would have portability issues when a 10" netbook is sold specifically for that purpose. As are 17" MacBook Pros.
I have a 17" MBP and the very netbook you show...a 10" Lenovo. The point is that if I'm carrying around a 10" device it better be useful.
A 1280x720 display that's 10" diagonal would be 4.9 inches wide. An iPod touch type device built with one of these displays would not be anywhere near as large as a 10" netbook. Apple should be able to make it about 5.3 inches wide. the iPhone is 4.5 inches tall, and turned sideways, it fits in my pocket with at least 0.8 inches of room to spare.
Measuring JUST the screen and no bezel the 10.1" display on my netbook is 5.25". Assuming 0.25" total bezel it's likely too big to fit in your pocket. The other part is that with a paperback the amount that sticks out of your pocket is fairly small. With a 10" display it's at least 9" long.
It's not too critical if it doesn't fit. Netbooks don't fit in pockets either, and that's the market they are going after - people who carry netbooks with them.
Netbooks have real keyboards. This is why 7" netbooks sucked...keyboards that were too small.
Estimates are that 33 million netbooks will be sold this year. I expect Apple to have a compelling alternative. Something that avoids the compromise of squeesing a tiny trackpad and miniature keyboard on a netbook. Just look at how awkward and cramped it looks to use one of those things
I can touch type on the Lenovo and it's a fully functional laptop. Heck, I even run visual studio on it and might convert it to be a hackintosh and use iLife. It's no worse than a G4 powerbook.
I won't bother carrying a slate around because it simply isn't functional enough. I sued to carry around a NEC MobilePro.
Given it appears you've never used a slate or a netbook for long periods I'd say your opinions are not based on any personal experience.
The No. 1 item that you would tend to run full screen is video and that's where the problems come in supporting a larger screen. Increasing resolution of a video file causes a dramatic increase in file size.
I do agree that if the cost difference between a 6" and a 10" device were about $100, even cash-strapped students would pay the extra freight. Buit that would only cover the larger screen. What about the larger HD to accommodate bigger video files? What about beefing up the processor to handle more demanding video content? And of course, as you mention, you're going to need a better battery. My estimate is that the price difference between a 6" tablet and a 10" would be in the neighbourhood of $200 to $300, i.e. the cost of your typical netbook.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not arguing that Apple will never produce a 10-inch tablet. I am saying that is not the next logical progression for Apple's touchscreen line-up. It has been an evolution from the original iPod to the iPhone. I expect that evolution to continue and a version of the Touch with a 6" to 7" screen seems like the rational next move for Apple.
you're sure caught up on the file size issue. a 720p display doesn't mean you have to use HD video, it just means you can use HD video.
And it's pretty reasonable to think that storage space will at least double vs the current iPod touch. And while HD video files for those who choose them are larger than SD video, other content size is the same.
I have a 17" MBP and the very netbook you show...a 10" Lenovo. The point is that if I'm carrying around a 10" device it better be useful.
Measuring JUST the screen and no bezel the 10.1" display on my netbook is 5.25". Assuming 0.25" total bezel it's likely too big to fit in your pocket. The other part is that with a paperback the amount that sticks out of your pocket is fairly small. With a 10" display it's at least 9" long.
I'm assuming apple uses a screen that is 1280x720, it wouldn't be as wide as a 10" screen that has a different ratio.
Netbooks have real keyboards. This is why 7" netbooks sucked...keyboards that were too small.
it's not a real keyboard, even a 10" netbook has a reduced size keyboard. A real keyboard is 11" wide. A 10" netbook isn't that wide,, the keyboard has to be reduced. The keyboard on my MacBook Air is EXACTLY the same width as the main part of the keyboard on my MacPro
I can touch type on the Lenovo and it's a fully functional laptop. Heck, I even run visual studio on it and might convert it to be a hackintosh and use iLife. It's no worse than a G4 powerbook.
I won't bother carrying a slate around because it simply isn't functional enough. I sued to carry around a NEC MobilePro.
Given it appears you've never used a slate or a netbook for long periods I'd say your opinions are not based on any personal experience.
I used them enough to know I'd rather carry around a 13" MacBook Air with a real keyboard and full size trackpad for a laptop computer. It's just the right size that it doesn't feel cramped.
And how do you know a slate isn't functional enough when nobody knows how it works yet? Perhaps your needs are out of the 80/20 rule. I suspect that it's be a better, more productive, lighter, easier to use portable solution for 80% than a netbook would. It's not supposed to replace a Mac, it's supposed to supplement it.
you're sure caught up on the file size issue. a 720p display doesn't mean you have to use HD video, it just means you can use HD video.
And it's pretty reasonable to think that storage space will at least double vs the current iPod touch. And while HD video files for those who choose them are larger than SD video, other content size is the same.
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Also, consider that it is quite practical to stream video, so that you need not store [all] the large files on the mobile device.
This is great using WiFi: (HotSpot, Industrial Complex, Campus, friend's house, etc), It takes about 10 seconds to buffer enough data to start playing, You can scrub forward/back with a 5-10 second delay.
Even with 3G it is practical, if a bit slower: 15-40 seconds initially and 10-20 seconds to scrub,
I do it all the time, on my iPhone, in the middle of a park (at grandkids soccer games). I can access my videos, say highlights of prior games, stored on my MobileMe space. These same videos look acceptable when I play them via an iPhone connected to 46" HDTV... so they are available, wherever my iPhone goes, even though they are not stored on the iPhone.
It is not clear, but the existing 3GS may have hardware that assists h264 encoding/decoding. A new tablet would, most likely, have a dedicated chip to do this.
That's the beauty of the iPhone: You can take it with you... without taking it all with you!
A tablet should be bigger and better!
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I agree to some extent, but when he was kicked out in the 90's Apple almost went bankrupt. The stock was down to chump change, people were saying it was over for Apple. Then Jobs returned, they very soon after started making money and turned profitable again. Now with a stock price well over $150, hard to believe in just 1999 or so it was in the teens ($18-20).
Now people can argue this or that, but it is fact - with Jobs = success + innovation, without Jobs = failure, confusion, laziness, no vision or plan.
It would be fair to say that the direction of Apple changed under different stewardship. But the world was a different company back then and Apple was an immature company. There is now focus, integrated systems, experience, aggrandizement (Apple projects well beyond its market share now). So I would argue that Apple without Jobs does not automatically become "failure, confusion, laziness, no vision or plan".
Jobs does not come up with all the ideas or make the commercials, but I guarantee you he see's, approves of, and perfects everything before it becomes public. And he is smart enough to hire top people to help him carry his vision and help him innovate. A leader does not have to do everything and a truly great leader (CEO, Founder) is smart enough to hire people around him to make him/her better and carry their vision and add to it.
Jobs is Apple and I worry when he does leave for good, Apple will slowly revert back to 1998 and being lost in the fog. I am not looking forward to that time, because we already allegedly have some employee's crying about things were "easier" with him gone these past months, that make the future seem scary. They need him to drive them and demand, sadly the inmates can't run the asylum on their own.
I agree that without Jobs things will not be the same in perpetuity. But I argue that the systems the culture and the ethos are so entrenched that it will take a longtime for that to ebb away.
By the way, you somewhat contradict yourself by on the one hand say that Jobs "see's, approves of, and perfects everything" and on the other-hand "A leader does not have to do everything". Jobs is smart enough to rely on the brilliant people around him to facilitate the vision that he is personally responsible for establishing on his return to Apple ten years ago or so.
There is no way one person could oversee the entire operation of Apple. I bet SJ reviews a lot of stuff though.
It is the culture, ethos and management at Apple that allows great things to happen. that is the fundamental reason. not one man - Steve Jobs.
If steve Jobs were not at the helm Apple would continue to be brilliant until that culture, ethos and management evaporated.
Who do you think creates the ethos, culture and leads the management?
The ethos would chnage with different leadership. If you've every read about SJ's leadership and management style you'd understand how much he drives the culture and ethos. .
Actually you are saying exactly what I am saying. And I agree with you except that I believe a post Jobs Apple will not be as flimsy (reading between your lines) as you suggest.
You are mostly correct. Except for the "adult supervision" quote.
The story was told by an Apple middle manager, to remain unnamed,
Question: "Do you know how Apple is different from the Boy Scouts [organization]?"
Answer: "One of them has adult supervision."
It was a joke about Steve Jobs, not a statement made by him!
And, it was Mike Spindler (Diesel) first, then Gil Amelio.
Amelio wasn't a dynamic personality, but many claim that he deserves a lot of credit for Apple's survival, and setting the stage for its resurgence. Amelio cleaned up the organizational mess, streamlined the product lines, abandoned doomed internal OS efforts, presided over the purchase of NeXT to get their OS (instead of Jean-Louis Gassee's BeOS), and recommended the hiring of Steve Jobs
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Yes, I know it was Spindler-Amelio. I was listing them in alphabetical order.
Amelio deserves some credit, true -- if only for choosing NeXT instead of Be. How much of that was because Gassee asking too much, though? The rumors were in the neighborhood of $500 million, IIRC. Also, he was hired as a "turn around" specialist and it's questionable how far he took Apple down that road. And that Maglight comparison left many of us scratching our heads.
Thanks for the correction on the quote. I'd always heard that one attributed to Steve.
Thank you for this response. Some people simply cannot understand the difference between "we" and "me."
Please include us in that group.
The No. 1 item that you would tend to run full screen is video and that's where the problems come in supporting a larger screen. Increasing resolution of a video file causes a dramatic increase in file size.
I do agree that if the cost difference between a 6" and a 10" device were about $100, even cash-strapped students would pay the extra freight. Buit that would only cover the larger screen. What about the larger HD to accommodate bigger video files? What about beefing up the processor to handle more demanding video content? And of course, as you mention, you're going to need a better battery. My estimate is that the price difference between a 6" tablet and a 10" would be in the neighbourhood of $200 to $300, i.e. the cost of your typical netbook.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not arguing that Apple will never produce a 10-inch tablet. I am saying that is not the next logical progression for Apple's touchscreen line-up. It has been an evolution from the original iPod to the iPhone. I expect that evolution to continue and a version of the Touch with a 6" to 7" screen seems like the rational next move for Apple.
More space allows for larger hard drive dimensions, which means lower memory density for the same hard drive size, which means lower cost per GB, which means they can pack more storage in for a similar cost. Perhaps they wont make a 10" tablet initially, perhaps the 10" screens Apple ordered were for something else, or Apple changed their mind about them, but I personally haven't seen anything that would make me think that a smaller size would be more likely. What we see as a likely screen size probably matches the screen size that we think we want, I wouldn't mind a 10" screen at all.