Apple can afford to lose the sale of the few computers that Psystar sells and with all the publicity it makes, it's good advertising. The average user thinks that OS X must be one heck desirable system for anyone to fight so hard to obtain it. So Apple may in fact be hyping up the news to their own advantage. But if they think there could be a chance that they might lose, then we'll see Apple 'Genuine Advantage' and all software will be delivered over the internet only to qualified machines.
The danger isn't in how many Mac clones Psystar could sell. The danger is in how many Mac clones Dell would sell if the door were opened by a Psytar victory in court.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I find it interesting how pretty much every update from Apple requires a restart and the supposed restart initiates before the product even starts downloading effectively preventing some custom program from reading the data or installer script due to the fact that no other application can run during the install process.
Do you also find it interesting that you have to stop your car before changing a tire?
These kinds of things happen all the time and if you want someone to blame it's really the media that does it. It's the publishing of what would normally be seen as outlandish claims and the re-publishing of them to the point that they gain some kind of currency that is the root cause.
For instance, even if you believe the reports of the French consumers verbatim, the iPhones never, ever "exploded" in any sense of the word. However this very forum, along with almost all the others published story after story about "exploding iPhones." I heard someone in a restaurant just yesterday asking their friend if they had "heard about the exploding iPhones" when in fact no iPhone has ever exploded or even been reported as such.
The accusation is that the glass spontaneously cracked on somewhere between two and eleven French iPhones. But this is reported as "exploding iPhones" with a lot of dire language that makes it seem like a problem when it clearly isn't. Even if it's 100% true that this happened, that would give a failure rate somewhere south of 0.00001% (or less) on a product that's made and sold in the millions.
People are actually killed or maimed by tech products all the time, but those stories aren't covered. A few French consumers claim the iPhone screen cracked though and there is a big hullaballoo about it. It's because the tech media like to crank up the public over this kind of thing and apple is top dog right now. That's all.
Maybe there were exploding iPhones which had been modified by Al Qaeda to explode when turned on. Probably hard to find room for the Semtex inside the phone however.
When I am at home or at work I use wifi but on the road I never try to find unlocked wifi because you can't trust them. It could be hacked to discover passwords etc. I always use the cell network. And I do love my 32 gig 3G S. I bought the 32 but I doubt I'll ever use that much storage.
i worry about security, too. I don?t have WiFi on either but I find the areas I travel have excellent speeds from AT&T. I?m surprised that I?m almost maxing out my 32GB 3GS, but I started using KeepVid to DL music videos from YouTube so I am storing a lot of them on my device.
Do you also find it interesting that you have to stop your car before changing a tire?
But you can listen to the radio while changing the tire. The point I was making was the contrast between every other OS and OS X. The usual process is you continue working while the install process proceeds and when it is done you need to restart, and usually when it is convenient for you to do so. I believe Apple does it the other way around to prevent snooping.
Oh man! Just when you thought Psystar couldn't get any more moronic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande
It is the system-altering stuff that requires [a restart], or programs which require elements to be loaded on startup, that require a restart. And I'll assume you mean the restart is initiating in that user interface processes are exited before the download and installation begin. I think it is far more likely that this process is handled in such a way to provide a controlled environment for the installation--one which I, the user, am less likely to interfere with out of stupidity or impatience--than for any sort of shady reason. I doubt anything in this process would hide the more important details from a software firm (or company with a good software team) that wanted to analyze it.
right, but the last time I checked it wasn't a smart phone either.
Wow, really? Do you not get the point or are you just trying to be argumentative?
Ok, in case you really don't understand... an iPhone without a data plan is essentially an iPod touch (with a cell phone). Since many, many people have found the touch to be a useful device, even with the crippling omission of no ATT data plan, it stands to reason that an iPhone without a data plan could, just possibly, actually still be useful.
In fact, since ATT feels that it's necessary to require users to get a data plan, that suggests that there are smartphone users out there who choose not to have a data plan. Further evidence that a smartphone without a data plan is still useful.
And while it doesn't affect iPhone users as they are already required to have a data plan, the point we are trying to make is that this is an obvious ploy by ATT to get more money from people for services they may not use. Perhaps the FCC should add that to their list of things to investigate.
But you can listen to the radio while changing the tire. The point I was making was the contrast between every other OS and OS X. The usual process is you continue working while the install process proceeds and when it is done you need to restart, and usually when it is convenient for you to do so. I believe Apple does it the other way around to prevent snooping.
m
Fair point, but I've installed many an Apple update that either didn't require a restart or allowed you to continue working while the update ran. Only those that could potentially affect "moving parts" require a restart to install.
As for snooping, you can separately download the updates from Apple's web site via your web browser without actually installing them. So what are they supposedly protecting with System Update's behavior?
Huh? Most updates I've installed *do not* require a restart. It is the system-altering stuff that requires it, or programs which require elements to be loaded on startup, that require a restart.
Does Apple make any software that doesn't interact with the operating system? Well maybe a few but I don't remember receiving any updates lately that didn't require restart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande
I doubt anything in this process would hide the more important details from a software firm (or company with a good software team) that wanted to analyze it.
Ha ha. These Psystar people cannot be serious. This is a joke that is being taken to the limits. I really have to get one of these Psystar Open computers and see if they are really that friggin' good. We need to tie these people up, put 'em in a boat, ship out to ocean and sink it half way.
I love my Mac also but not so much that I would advocate murder, or laugh about murdering someone
Does Apple make any software that doesn't interact with the operating system? Well maybe a few but I don't remember receiving any updates lately that didn't require restart.
Only about a third to a half of Apple's updates require a restart. You can tell which ones require a restart by seeing what has a triangle to the left of the update name. The probable reason why you get the impression that they all require restarts is because updates not requiring restart are mixed in updates that do.
These guys need to be prosecuted in a criminal court for grand theft and larceny. Can you buy a Toyota Engine and put it a Chevrolet chassis and sell it? These guys are out of their mind. These crooks need to be arrested and jailed.
Yes, it is a criminal tampering of Apple products, not just iPhones. These explosions mostly happen overseas where Apple is displacing antiquated, useless products.
Apple should hire industrial espionage investigators to work with the FBI and locate companies involved in discrediting Apple. These no-good companies know they can't compete, so they always invent this exploding scenarios to slow Apple's consumer purchase.
Well, it has not worked and it will not work. These crooks need to be tracked down and jailed. It reminds me of the Las Vegas guy who claimed he found a finger in the food he bought at a fast food restaurant in California. That idiot is now doing over 5yrs in the slammer. That's what need to happen to these idiots who are inventing the iPhone explosion scheme. Question them at the police station, give them lie-detector tests.
And when caught, give them maximum prison sentence to teach others a lesson.
Does Apple make any software that doesn't interact with the operating system? Well maybe a few but I don't remember receiving any updates lately that didn't require restart.
I suppose you might see a greater frequency of these updates if you have no non-system Apple software. Nearly all the software updates for the likes of iLife and the pro apps do not require a restart. But if you're only seeing OS updates, security updates, Quicktime, Java, and things like that--you'll see a lot of restarts. It is happening for a reason, though, and the reason isn't anything complicated, questionable, or even unusual.
I haven't updated my MacBook Pro for a while. About 70% of the updates available through Software Update do not require a restart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I suppose anything is possible.
It isn't even complicated. I'm not talking about a long-shot here. Apple is very easy to predict when it comes to things like this. They will go to great lengths to avoid *anything* that makes the end-user's experience more complicated. Even if Apple wanted to complicate things for someone who wanted a piece of that software, they wouldn't do so in a way that would impact the end-user's experience.
First, all those update software packages are available for download from Apple's own site. They aren't trying at all to hide the download package. Second, the OS actually logs much of what took place in an installation. Third, it really wouldn't be difficult for someone to analyze any aspect of this process with the right knowledge and experience. Any company can hire this sort of person, or a team of these people, and a company like Psystar already has them onboard getting OS X on their computers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Data expands to fill the container it is given.
Too true... for the longest time I was happy enough with a Mac Mini and about 400 GBs of storage. Now I've got a Mac Pro with about 4 TB storage and, in planning for Snow Leopard, it seemed appropriate to buy a large external hard drive for backups and to replace my ailing Time Machine drive. It is just one big trap. On the plus side, it doesn't bother me anymore to store hundreds of gigabytes of video for syncing with my Apple TV, something I never would have considered on the Mac Mini.
It's a trap, but at least it isn't a very expensive one.
I love my Mac also but not so much that I would advocate murder, or laugh about murdering someone
Indeed. Those who advocate the death of those running Pystar are just as wrong as the ones they wish were dead. (I usually won't attack like this, but given my job, I do stand up once in awhile.)
Jail time for Pystar owners, now that I fully agree with given they are found guilty. Torture, dismemberment, forgin objects placed in orfaces, or death, I do not agree with at all.
Comments
Apple can afford to lose the sale of the few computers that Psystar sells and with all the publicity it makes, it's good advertising. The average user thinks that OS X must be one heck desirable system for anyone to fight so hard to obtain it. So Apple may in fact be hyping up the news to their own advantage. But if they think there could be a chance that they might lose, then we'll see Apple 'Genuine Advantage' and all software will be delivered over the internet only to qualified machines.
The danger isn't in how many Mac clones Psystar could sell. The danger is in how many Mac clones Dell would sell if the door were opened by a Psytar victory in court.
I find it interesting how pretty much every update from Apple requires a restart and the supposed restart initiates before the product even starts downloading effectively preventing some custom program from reading the data or installer script due to the fact that no other application can run during the install process.
Do you also find it interesting that you have to stop your car before changing a tire?
I remember this very clearly.
These kinds of things happen all the time and if you want someone to blame it's really the media that does it. It's the publishing of what would normally be seen as outlandish claims and the re-publishing of them to the point that they gain some kind of currency that is the root cause.
For instance, even if you believe the reports of the French consumers verbatim, the iPhones never, ever "exploded" in any sense of the word. However this very forum, along with almost all the others published story after story about "exploding iPhones." I heard someone in a restaurant just yesterday asking their friend if they had "heard about the exploding iPhones" when in fact no iPhone has ever exploded or even been reported as such.
The accusation is that the glass spontaneously cracked on somewhere between two and eleven French iPhones. But this is reported as "exploding iPhones" with a lot of dire language that makes it seem like a problem when it clearly isn't. Even if it's 100% true that this happened, that would give a failure rate somewhere south of 0.00001% (or less) on a product that's made and sold in the millions.
People are actually killed or maimed by tech products all the time, but those stories aren't covered. A few French consumers claim the iPhone screen cracked though and there is a big hullaballoo about it. It's because the tech media like to crank up the public over this kind of thing and apple is top dog right now. That's all.
Maybe there were exploding iPhones which had been modified by Al Qaeda to explode when turned on. Probably hard to find room for the Semtex inside the phone however.
Last time I checked the iPod touch was selling pretty well.
right, but the last time I checked it wasn't a smart phone either.
When I am at home or at work I use wifi but on the road I never try to find unlocked wifi because you can't trust them. It could be hacked to discover passwords etc. I always use the cell network. And I do love my 32 gig 3G S. I bought the 32 but I doubt I'll ever use that much storage.
i worry about security, too. I don?t have WiFi on either but I find the areas I travel have excellent speeds from AT&T. I?m surprised that I?m almost maxing out my 32GB 3GS, but I started using KeepVid to DL music videos from YouTube so I am storing a lot of them on my device.
Do you also find it interesting that you have to stop your car before changing a tire?
But you can listen to the radio while changing the tire. The point I was making was the contrast between every other OS and OS X. The usual process is you continue working while the install process proceeds and when it is done you need to restart, and usually when it is convenient for you to do so. I believe Apple does it the other way around to prevent snooping.
m
It is the system-altering stuff that requires [a restart], or programs which require elements to be loaded on startup, that require a restart. And I'll assume you mean the restart is initiating in that user interface processes are exited before the download and installation begin. I think it is far more likely that this process is handled in such a way to provide a controlled environment for the installation--one which I, the user, am less likely to interfere with out of stupidity or impatience--than for any sort of shady reason. I doubt anything in this process would hide the more important details from a software firm (or company with a good software team) that wanted to analyze it.
Exactly
right, but the last time I checked it wasn't a smart phone either.
Wow, really? Do you not get the point or are you just trying to be argumentative?
Ok, in case you really don't understand... an iPhone without a data plan is essentially an iPod touch (with a cell phone). Since many, many people have found the touch to be a useful device, even with the crippling omission of no ATT data plan, it stands to reason that an iPhone without a data plan could, just possibly, actually still be useful.
In fact, since ATT feels that it's necessary to require users to get a data plan, that suggests that there are smartphone users out there who choose not to have a data plan. Further evidence that a smartphone without a data plan is still useful.
And while it doesn't affect iPhone users as they are already required to have a data plan, the point we are trying to make is that this is an obvious ploy by ATT to get more money from people for services they may not use. Perhaps the FCC should add that to their list of things to investigate.
But you can listen to the radio while changing the tire. The point I was making was the contrast between every other OS and OS X. The usual process is you continue working while the install process proceeds and when it is done you need to restart, and usually when it is convenient for you to do so. I believe Apple does it the other way around to prevent snooping.
m
Fair point, but I've installed many an Apple update that either didn't require a restart or allowed you to continue working while the update ran. Only those that could potentially affect "moving parts" require a restart to install.
As for snooping, you can separately download the updates from Apple's web site via your web browser without actually installing them. So what are they supposedly protecting with System Update's behavior?
Huh? Most updates I've installed *do not* require a restart. It is the system-altering stuff that requires it, or programs which require elements to be loaded on startup, that require a restart.
Does Apple make any software that doesn't interact with the operating system? Well maybe a few but I don't remember receiving any updates lately that didn't require restart.
I doubt anything in this process would hide the more important details from a software firm (or company with a good software team) that wanted to analyze it.
I suppose anything is possible.
Ha ha. These Psystar people cannot be serious. This is a joke that is being taken to the limits. I really have to get one of these Psystar Open computers and see if they are really that friggin' good. We need to tie these people up, put 'em in a boat, ship out to ocean and sink it half way.
I love my Mac also but not so much that I would advocate murder, or laugh about murdering someone
I bought the 32 but I doubt I'll ever use that much storage.
Data expands to fill the container it is given.
Does Apple make any software that doesn't interact with the operating system? Well maybe a few but I don't remember receiving any updates lately that didn't require restart.
Only about a third to a half of Apple's updates require a restart. You can tell which ones require a restart by seeing what has a triangle to the left of the update name. The probable reason why you get the impression that they all require restarts is because updates not requiring restart are mixed in updates that do.
What the hell is going?
Can you buy a Toyota Engine and put it a Chevrolet chassis and sell it?
Doesn't Chevrolet do that all the time?
Doesn't Chevrolet do that all the time?
He forgot to add without permission. If you have permision to do it, of course you can.
Apple should hire industrial espionage investigators to work with the FBI and locate companies involved in discrediting Apple. These no-good companies know they can't compete, so they always invent this exploding scenarios to slow Apple's consumer purchase.
Well, it has not worked and it will not work. These crooks need to be tracked down and jailed. It reminds me of the Las Vegas guy who claimed he found a finger in the food he bought at a fast food restaurant in California. That idiot is now doing over 5yrs in the slammer. That's what need to happen to these idiots who are inventing the iPhone explosion scheme. Question them at the police station, give them lie-detector tests.
And when caught, give them maximum prison sentence to teach others a lesson.
Data expands to fill the container it is given.
A corollary to Parkinson's Law?
Does Apple make any software that doesn't interact with the operating system? Well maybe a few but I don't remember receiving any updates lately that didn't require restart.
I suppose you might see a greater frequency of these updates if you have no non-system Apple software. Nearly all the software updates for the likes of iLife and the pro apps do not require a restart. But if you're only seeing OS updates, security updates, Quicktime, Java, and things like that--you'll see a lot of restarts. It is happening for a reason, though, and the reason isn't anything complicated, questionable, or even unusual.
I haven't updated my MacBook Pro for a while. About 70% of the updates available through Software Update do not require a restart.
I suppose anything is possible.
It isn't even complicated. I'm not talking about a long-shot here. Apple is very easy to predict when it comes to things like this. They will go to great lengths to avoid *anything* that makes the end-user's experience more complicated. Even if Apple wanted to complicate things for someone who wanted a piece of that software, they wouldn't do so in a way that would impact the end-user's experience.
First, all those update software packages are available for download from Apple's own site. They aren't trying at all to hide the download package. Second, the OS actually logs much of what took place in an installation. Third, it really wouldn't be difficult for someone to analyze any aspect of this process with the right knowledge and experience. Any company can hire this sort of person, or a team of these people, and a company like Psystar already has them onboard getting OS X on their computers.
Data expands to fill the container it is given.
Too true... for the longest time I was happy enough with a Mac Mini and about 400 GBs of storage. Now I've got a Mac Pro with about 4 TB storage and, in planning for Snow Leopard, it seemed appropriate to buy a large external hard drive for backups and to replace my ailing Time Machine drive. It is just one big trap. On the plus side, it doesn't bother me anymore to store hundreds of gigabytes of video for syncing with my Apple TV, something I never would have considered on the Mac Mini.
It's a trap, but at least it isn't a very expensive one.
I love my Mac also but not so much that I would advocate murder, or laugh about murdering someone
Indeed. Those who advocate the death of those running Pystar are just as wrong as the ones they wish were dead. (I usually won't attack like this, but given my job, I do stand up once in awhile.)
Jail time for Pystar owners, now that I fully agree with given they are found guilty. Torture, dismemberment, forgin objects placed in orfaces, or death, I do not agree with at all.