I hate how apple let's certain products flounder. In the computer world, waiting 2 years for something is like having a sick elderly Grandparent. Are they going to recover, or ...
I know it's about timing when they enter the marketplace with a DVR, etc., but at least upgrade the chips??
I'm the type that will probably never buy a Blue-ray player as I believe we'll jump over that and go straight into direct digital (Stored or streamed) and when you hear of technologies like RedRay, I think it's the future. THat would all but clinch the market if Apple bought them and actually implemented it as it's seemingly a bit of vaporware right now?
1. Apple could easily have gone the DVR route already -- by adding it to Apple TV or buying TIVO for very, very cheap -- and hasn't.
2. Adding DVR functionality to Apple TV would cannibalize iTunes Store without adding getting anything in return, which is the same reason the Apple TV does not have a DVD or Blu-ray player.
3. Adding DVR functionality to Apple TV would strengthen consumer commitment to cable/satellite, and Apple will not be able to get wide adoption of a subscription plan in the $50-$60/month range unless they turn Apple TV into a Comcast-killer, i.e., a direct competitor to cable and satellite.
4. Apple usually makes the thing -- not the thing that helps the thing. Adding DVR functionality to Apple TV would really be an enhancement to your cable -- another company's product -- and I can't come up with another example where Apple does that. Again, it strengthens the tie to the other product rather than to the one Apple makes.
The new AppleTV needs to allow other online media providers to provide apps / plugins to interface with their programming systems. For example in the UK we have iPlayer and 4od (and Virgin On Demand, and Dave On Demand, and others, but the others are the primary players in the market) which provide free on-demand programming from their back catalogues and recently shown on TV stuff. These providers will not want to provide their content via a third-party "store", especially as they've already got their own infrastructure to provide the shows for free.
It's quite simple in that I will not buy an Apple TV until it incorporates the ability to interface with other programming providers, even if the other providers have to program their own add-in functionality for the device and provide it via an AppleTV App Store (or automatically downloaded once the AppleTV knows which country it is running in). I can understand these plug-in applications being forced to use a certain UI style and mode of operation, and I can understand that media that they download should be put into the single repository on the device (or media server connected to the device) instead of having separate browsable libraries. But without iPlayer and 4od support in the UK, the device is irrelevant.
Also: HDMI 1.3a (or 1.4) output.
Also: Future external BluRay drive (that fits neatly on top, interfacing via USB). This does require the next AppleTV to be capable of decoding and outputting 1080p at 45mbps though.
Also: 802.11n, Bluetooth remotes with more than 6 buttons that are big enough to remain visible.
Apple wants to sell and rent content from the itunes store, not give you a blu-ray player and a dvr for your cable. Not only would them allowing other content not pay off for them, It would cannibalize sales from the itunes store.
I agree It would be nice if appletv could replace more devices in my living room like my dvr, disc player, etc. I just don't see them doing this.
Apple wants to sell and rent content from the itunes store, not give you a blu-ray player and a dvr for your cable. Not only would them allowing other content not pay off for them, It would cannibalize sales from the itunes store.
I agree It would be nice if appletv could replace more devices in my living room like my dvr, disc player, etc. I just don't see them doing this.
I hope and think that Apple is beginning to realize that this is a no win situation. This strict iTunes jukebox dogma nonsense is not going to sell enmasse in itself. It needs more.
FWIW, Handbrake is available on other platforms. While the machine that serves media to my AppleTV is a Mac Mini, it's only a G4 and isn't practical for ripping my DVDs. For that I have a homebrew C2D running Ubuntu with a copy of Handbrake.
I don't believe it can rip BD out-of-the-box however. In fact, the latest version doesn't come with the DeCSS stuff required for ripping DVDs (one must also download VLC; Handbrake utilises the VLC library when ripping DVDs).
A bit of Googling leads me to believe that Handbrake does not support BD ripping, and that there is no intention to add support for it. At the moment it appears that's limited to a few Windows tools, the most commonly mentioned one being a commercial product that runs about $100. It's a real shame as I have a large collection of HD DVD media that I'd like to rip before my player dies and I end up with a large collection of portable mirrors.
Apple wants to sell and rent content from the itunes store, not give you a blu-ray player and a dvr for your cable. Not only would them allowing other content not pay off for them, It would cannibalize sales from the itunes store.
I agree It would be nice if appletv could replace more devices in my living room like my dvr, disc player, etc. I just don't see them doing this.
I see people mentioning this all the time and I often wonder if that's really true. It's commonly believed that the iTunes music store really exists to sell more iPods; that Apple really doesn't make much money from the sale of music. I suspect they don't make much money from video content either, and if so, that means the video portion of the iTMS exists to sell more video-capable devices, including the AppleTV. It was that exact reason that led me to purchase my AppleTV over a PS3 when I was considering which HD-capable device to add to my HDTV. I have no regrets.
In any case, if they're trying to sell more hardware devices, then adding BD support to the AppleTV does make a certain amount of sense, especially when you consider just how many PS3s were sold solely because of its BD player. It might make some consumers who wouldn't otherwise have done pick up an AppleTV. They'd then discover the convenience of IPTV and make more purchases via the iTMS!
And as mentioned earlier in the thread, the HD content definitely does not compare in quality to my physical HD collection (in my case, HD-DVD; in other's, BD), but for the most part, it's good enough. I'm not in any hurry to add a BD player as a separate device. If Apple includes one in the next AppleTV however, I'll jump on it.
I hope and think that Apple is beginning to realize that this is a no win situation. This strict iTunes jukebox dogma nonsense is not going to sell enmasse in itself. It needs more.
I think simple web access would make the most sense. Then we could at least use it for HULU and other online providers. I think they have left out the web browser just for this reason, though.
It's in our interest for them to allow other content sources, but it only cannibalizes itunes store sales, which isn't really in their interest.
They'd then discover the convenience of IPTV and make more purchases via the iTMS!
From my experience, convenience is not the word that comes to mind. More like pain. When I tried to view the HD trailers, I get a black screen when I click on the HD trailer button as I wonder if the AppleTV is hung. The video shows up after a few minutes. Whenever my AppleTV accesses iTunes, there is that spinning cursor.
And then there is that "authorized" thing. I need to be authorized to watch my purchase? I don't think so.
From my experience, convenience is not the word that comes to mind. More like pain. When I tried to view the HD trailers, I get a black screen when I click on the HD trailer button as I wonder if the AppleTV is hung. The video shows up after a few minutes. Whenever my AppleTV accesses iTunes, there is that spinning cursor.
And then there is that "authorized" thing. I need to be authorized to watch my purchase? I don't think so.
sounds like maybe you have some throughput problems, network congestion, slow internet connection, slow wireless or something like that. I notice that when I watch HD trailers over my internet connection, I get some stuttering and pausing to wait for more to download, etc... I usually just watch the SD trailers. For tv shows or movies, I can get the HD and just wait a little longer before starting it and eliminate the problems with a not so great internet connection.
If it is slow accessing iTunes, I know that if you have a large library, it can take a while for the apple tv to download the database, playlists, etc. then parse them so you can have access to them over the network. Otherwise you may have a slow wireless network or a lot of traffic on it or something.
For the "authorized" issue, this sounds like the HDCP problem you will run into with HD content if your monitor is not HDCP compliant - this happened to me when I used my apple tv with a computer monitor that wasn't HDCP compliant. If you switch to using the component video connection it may fix that problem.
sounds like maybe you have some throughput problems, network congestion, slow internet connection, slow wireless or something like that. I notice that when I watch HD trailers over my internet connection, I get some stuttering and pausing to wait for more to download, etc... I usually just watch the SD trailers. For tv shows or movies, I can get the HD and just wait a little longer before starting it and eliminate the problems with a not so great internet connection.
If it is slow accessing iTunes, I know that if you have a large library, it can take a while for the apple tv to download the database, playlists, etc. then parse them so you can have access to them over the network. Otherwise you may have a slow wireless network or a lot of traffic on it or something.
For the "authorized" issue, this sounds like the HDCP problem you will run into with HD content if your monitor is not HDCP compliant - this happened to me when I used my apple tv with a computer monitor that wasn't HDCP compliant. If you switch to using the component video connection it may fix that problem.
I have a 802.11n router and 1.5 Mbps DSL, so no slow wireless yes slow internet. However, it is still a big turn-off to get a black screen for a while when clicking on a button to play video. Wife and kid ask, "what happened" and my response is "it's coming" as I deflect that "you paid what for that?" look.
I don't have an HDCP issue because my HDTV is HDCP compliant. I never bought anything from iTunes because of the whole authorized concept. It just sounds too totalitarian. I know Blu-ray has it's DRM but that would be out the door if it ever mentioned anything about authorized.
I have a 802.11n router and 1.5 Mbps DSL, so no slow wireless yes slow internet. However, it is still a big turn-off to get a black screen for a while when clicking on a button to play video. Wife and kid ask, "what happened" and my response is "it's coming" as I deflect that "you paid what for that?" look.
I've often wondered if it was my setup, or my Internet connection that caused this. As I've said a hundred times, I love my AppleTV. However, streaming HD trailers is beyond painful - I usually have to wait about five minutes (at least) before playback starts (even with SD trailers I have to wait around 30 seconds). The last time I bought a TV show (even a SD version) that I wanted to watch right away, I had to wait literally thirty minutes before it was ready to stream.
I have 1.5 DSL from Speakeasy (which is a top notch provider) and have wondered if I should try Comcast (a company I loathe). I'm paying a right premium for my service (it's $70/month) and feel like I should be getting better speeds. Will simply switching to Cable give me near-instant access to content? Will Comcast's filtering limit my bandwidth (both to the iTMS and to the newsgroups where some of my content is sourced)?
Quote:
I don't have an HDCP issue because my HDTV is HDCP compliant. I never bought anything from iTunes because of the whole authorized concept. It just sounds too totalitarian. I know Blu-ray has it's DRM but that would be out the door if it ever mentioned anything about authorized.
Bit of a non-issue for me, really, at least as far as TV shows go. I don't mind paying $40/year for a subscription to a series. For movies, however, I don't like the idea of paying $15 for a film that doesn't come with everything on a DVD that I would pay about the same (or less) for. And as movies to me have a long shelf-life (I often re-watch movies I've owned for years), I am somewhat concerned with DRM and the impact that may have on my ability to watch content I've paid for in the future -- what happens if the iTMS goes away, and with it the only way I have to authorize my paid-for content...?
However, streaming HD trailers is beyond painful - I usually have to wait about five minutes (at least) before playback starts (even with SD trailers I have to wait around 30 seconds).
Forgot to mention, BTW, that I don't see the blank screen you do. Within moments I get a progress bar. While it may not move as quickly as I'd like it to, at least I know something is happening
Forgot to mention, BTW, that I don't see the blank screen you do. Within moments I get a progress bar. While it may not move as quickly as I'd like it to, at least I know something is happening
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123
I have a 802.11n router and 1.5 Mbps DSL, so no slow wireless yes slow internet. However, it is still a big turn-off to get a black screen for a while when clicking on a button to play video. Wife and kid ask, "what happened" and my response is "it's coming" as I deflect that "you paid what for that?" look.
I don't have an HDCP issue because my HDTV is HDCP compliant. I never bought anything from iTunes because of the whole authorized concept. It just sounds too totalitarian. I know Blu-ray has it's DRM but that would be out the door if it ever mentioned anything about authorized.
Yeah that's strange. Even when I'm having connection issues and have to wait a while I never get a black screen - just the loading icon. I do wish they would show a progress bar or something more than just loading...
Comments
I know it's about timing when they enter the marketplace with a DVR, etc., but at least upgrade the chips??
I'm the type that will probably never buy a Blue-ray player as I believe we'll jump over that and go straight into direct digital (Stored or streamed) and when you hear of technologies like RedRay, I think it's the future. THat would all but clinch the market if Apple bought them and actually implemented it as it's seemingly a bit of vaporware right now?
http://blogs.zdnet.com/home-theater/?p=731
I don't see it happening.
1. Apple could easily have gone the DVR route already -- by adding it to Apple TV or buying TIVO for very, very cheap -- and hasn't.
2. Adding DVR functionality to Apple TV would cannibalize iTunes Store without adding getting anything in return, which is the same reason the Apple TV does not have a DVD or Blu-ray player.
3. Adding DVR functionality to Apple TV would strengthen consumer commitment to cable/satellite, and Apple will not be able to get wide adoption of a subscription plan in the $50-$60/month range unless they turn Apple TV into a Comcast-killer, i.e., a direct competitor to cable and satellite.
4. Apple usually makes the thing -- not the thing that helps the thing. Adding DVR functionality to Apple TV would really be an enhancement to your cable -- another company's product -- and I can't come up with another example where Apple does that. Again, it strengthens the tie to the other product rather than to the one Apple makes.
Exactamundo...
WHo owns an external BR drive? anyone?
Not me, but they are getting cheaper.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827249040
The new AppleTV needs to allow other online media providers to provide apps / plugins to interface with their programming systems. For example in the UK we have iPlayer and 4od (and Virgin On Demand, and Dave On Demand, and others, but the others are the primary players in the market) which provide free on-demand programming from their back catalogues and recently shown on TV stuff. These providers will not want to provide their content via a third-party "store", especially as they've already got their own infrastructure to provide the shows for free.
It's quite simple in that I will not buy an Apple TV until it incorporates the ability to interface with other programming providers, even if the other providers have to program their own add-in functionality for the device and provide it via an AppleTV App Store (or automatically downloaded once the AppleTV knows which country it is running in). I can understand these plug-in applications being forced to use a certain UI style and mode of operation, and I can understand that media that they download should be put into the single repository on the device (or media server connected to the device) instead of having separate browsable libraries. But without iPlayer and 4od support in the UK, the device is irrelevant.
Also: HDMI 1.3a (or 1.4) output.
Also: Future external BluRay drive (that fits neatly on top, interfacing via USB). This does require the next AppleTV to be capable of decoding and outputting 1080p at 45mbps though.
Also: 802.11n, Bluetooth remotes with more than 6 buttons that are big enough to remain visible.
Apple wants to sell and rent content from the itunes store, not give you a blu-ray player and a dvr for your cable. Not only would them allowing other content not pay off for them, It would cannibalize sales from the itunes store.
I agree It would be nice if appletv could replace more devices in my living room like my dvr, disc player, etc. I just don't see them doing this.
Apple wants to sell and rent content from the itunes store, not give you a blu-ray player and a dvr for your cable. Not only would them allowing other content not pay off for them, It would cannibalize sales from the itunes store.
I agree It would be nice if appletv could replace more devices in my living room like my dvr, disc player, etc. I just don't see them doing this.
I hope and think that Apple is beginning to realize that this is a no win situation. This strict iTunes jukebox dogma nonsense is not going to sell enmasse in itself. It needs more.
WHo owns an external BR drive? anyone?
FWIW, Handbrake is available on other platforms. While the machine that serves media to my AppleTV is a Mac Mini, it's only a G4 and isn't practical for ripping my DVDs. For that I have a homebrew C2D running Ubuntu with a copy of Handbrake.
I don't believe it can rip BD out-of-the-box however. In fact, the latest version doesn't come with the DeCSS stuff required for ripping DVDs (one must also download VLC; Handbrake utilises the VLC library when ripping DVDs).
A bit of Googling leads me to believe that Handbrake does not support BD ripping, and that there is no intention to add support for it. At the moment it appears that's limited to a few Windows tools, the most commonly mentioned one being a commercial product that runs about $100. It's a real shame as I have a large collection of HD DVD media that I'd like to rip before my player dies and I end up with a large collection of portable mirrors.
Apple wants to sell and rent content from the itunes store, not give you a blu-ray player and a dvr for your cable. Not only would them allowing other content not pay off for them, It would cannibalize sales from the itunes store.
I agree It would be nice if appletv could replace more devices in my living room like my dvr, disc player, etc. I just don't see them doing this.
I see people mentioning this all the time and I often wonder if that's really true. It's commonly believed that the iTunes music store really exists to sell more iPods; that Apple really doesn't make much money from the sale of music. I suspect they don't make much money from video content either, and if so, that means the video portion of the iTMS exists to sell more video-capable devices, including the AppleTV. It was that exact reason that led me to purchase my AppleTV over a PS3 when I was considering which HD-capable device to add to my HDTV. I have no regrets.
In any case, if they're trying to sell more hardware devices, then adding BD support to the AppleTV does make a certain amount of sense, especially when you consider just how many PS3s were sold solely because of its BD player. It might make some consumers who wouldn't otherwise have done pick up an AppleTV. They'd then discover the convenience of IPTV and make more purchases via the iTMS!
And as mentioned earlier in the thread, the HD content definitely does not compare in quality to my physical HD collection (in my case, HD-DVD; in other's, BD), but for the most part, it's good enough. I'm not in any hurry to add a BD player as a separate device. If Apple includes one in the next AppleTV however, I'll jump on it.
I hope and think that Apple is beginning to realize that this is a no win situation. This strict iTunes jukebox dogma nonsense is not going to sell enmasse in itself. It needs more.
I think simple web access would make the most sense. Then we could at least use it for HULU and other online providers. I think they have left out the web browser just for this reason, though.
It's in our interest for them to allow other content sources, but it only cannibalizes itunes store sales, which isn't really in their interest.
we will see.
They'd then discover the convenience of IPTV and make more purchases via the iTMS!
From my experience, convenience is not the word that comes to mind. More like pain. When I tried to view the HD trailers, I get a black screen when I click on the HD trailer button as I wonder if the AppleTV is hung. The video shows up after a few minutes. Whenever my AppleTV accesses iTunes, there is that spinning cursor.
And then there is that "authorized" thing. I need to be authorized to watch my purchase? I don't think so.
From my experience, convenience is not the word that comes to mind. More like pain. When I tried to view the HD trailers, I get a black screen when I click on the HD trailer button as I wonder if the AppleTV is hung. The video shows up after a few minutes. Whenever my AppleTV accesses iTunes, there is that spinning cursor.
And then there is that "authorized" thing. I need to be authorized to watch my purchase? I don't think so.
sounds like maybe you have some throughput problems, network congestion, slow internet connection, slow wireless or something like that. I notice that when I watch HD trailers over my internet connection, I get some stuttering and pausing to wait for more to download, etc... I usually just watch the SD trailers. For tv shows or movies, I can get the HD and just wait a little longer before starting it and eliminate the problems with a not so great internet connection.
If it is slow accessing iTunes, I know that if you have a large library, it can take a while for the apple tv to download the database, playlists, etc. then parse them so you can have access to them over the network. Otherwise you may have a slow wireless network or a lot of traffic on it or something.
For the "authorized" issue, this sounds like the HDCP problem you will run into with HD content if your monitor is not HDCP compliant - this happened to me when I used my apple tv with a computer monitor that wasn't HDCP compliant. If you switch to using the component video connection it may fix that problem.
sounds like maybe you have some throughput problems, network congestion, slow internet connection, slow wireless or something like that. I notice that when I watch HD trailers over my internet connection, I get some stuttering and pausing to wait for more to download, etc... I usually just watch the SD trailers. For tv shows or movies, I can get the HD and just wait a little longer before starting it and eliminate the problems with a not so great internet connection.
If it is slow accessing iTunes, I know that if you have a large library, it can take a while for the apple tv to download the database, playlists, etc. then parse them so you can have access to them over the network. Otherwise you may have a slow wireless network or a lot of traffic on it or something.
For the "authorized" issue, this sounds like the HDCP problem you will run into with HD content if your monitor is not HDCP compliant - this happened to me when I used my apple tv with a computer monitor that wasn't HDCP compliant. If you switch to using the component video connection it may fix that problem.
I have a 802.11n router and 1.5 Mbps DSL, so no slow wireless yes slow internet. However, it is still a big turn-off to get a black screen for a while when clicking on a button to play video. Wife and kid ask, "what happened" and my response is "it's coming" as I deflect that "you paid what for that?" look.
I don't have an HDCP issue because my HDTV is HDCP compliant. I never bought anything from iTunes because of the whole authorized concept. It just sounds too totalitarian. I know Blu-ray has it's DRM but that would be out the door if it ever mentioned anything about authorized.
I have a 802.11n router and 1.5 Mbps DSL, so no slow wireless yes slow internet. However, it is still a big turn-off to get a black screen for a while when clicking on a button to play video. Wife and kid ask, "what happened" and my response is "it's coming" as I deflect that "you paid what for that?" look.
I've often wondered if it was my setup, or my Internet connection that caused this. As I've said a hundred times, I love my AppleTV. However, streaming HD trailers is beyond painful - I usually have to wait about five minutes (at least) before playback starts (even with SD trailers I have to wait around 30 seconds). The last time I bought a TV show (even a SD version) that I wanted to watch right away, I had to wait literally thirty minutes before it was ready to stream.
I have 1.5 DSL from Speakeasy (which is a top notch provider) and have wondered if I should try Comcast (a company I loathe). I'm paying a right premium for my service (it's $70/month) and feel like I should be getting better speeds. Will simply switching to Cable give me near-instant access to content? Will Comcast's filtering limit my bandwidth (both to the iTMS and to the newsgroups where some of my content is sourced)?
I don't have an HDCP issue because my HDTV is HDCP compliant. I never bought anything from iTunes because of the whole authorized concept. It just sounds too totalitarian. I know Blu-ray has it's DRM but that would be out the door if it ever mentioned anything about authorized.
Bit of a non-issue for me, really, at least as far as TV shows go. I don't mind paying $40/year for a subscription to a series. For movies, however, I don't like the idea of paying $15 for a film that doesn't come with everything on a DVD that I would pay about the same (or less) for. And as movies to me have a long shelf-life (I often re-watch movies I've owned for years), I am somewhat concerned with DRM and the impact that may have on my ability to watch content I've paid for in the future -- what happens if the iTMS goes away, and with it the only way I have to authorize my paid-for content...?
However, streaming HD trailers is beyond painful - I usually have to wait about five minutes (at least) before playback starts (even with SD trailers I have to wait around 30 seconds).
Forgot to mention, BTW, that I don't see the blank screen you do. Within moments I get a progress bar. While it may not move as quickly as I'd like it to, at least I know something is happening
Forgot to mention, BTW, that I don't see the blank screen you do. Within moments I get a progress bar. While it may not move as quickly as I'd like it to, at least I know something is happening
I have a 802.11n router and 1.5 Mbps DSL, so no slow wireless yes slow internet. However, it is still a big turn-off to get a black screen for a while when clicking on a button to play video. Wife and kid ask, "what happened" and my response is "it's coming" as I deflect that "you paid what for that?" look.
I don't have an HDCP issue because my HDTV is HDCP compliant. I never bought anything from iTunes because of the whole authorized concept. It just sounds too totalitarian. I know Blu-ray has it's DRM but that would be out the door if it ever mentioned anything about authorized.
Yeah that's strange. Even when I'm having connection issues and have to wait a while I never get a black screen - just the loading icon. I do wish they would show a progress bar or something more than just loading...
so you wonder why google is no longer on apples board, google is competing with apple on browser, phone os, phone and now google TV rentals.
so google knows of apples path, apple TV must be a really cool something, can't wait
google already knows how great it is.