Apple rivals DVD with new iTunes Extras for movies and albums

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  • Reply 41 of 110
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Hulu is not free.



    "Free with ads" is not "free." You are paying to watch the program by being forced to watch the ads.



    It's also bit of a mis-characterisation to talk about "free" or "paid" when you are talking about ephemeral things like streamed content and broadcasts. One can never own anything Hulu puts out, you don't "have" anything in your hand or on your shelf at home.



    I know this is part of the same argument you are making, but you can't really compare ownership of media with consumption of media streams. That's part of the reason why Jobs insists that people want to own their media, because being a smart guy, he wants to own his.



    Even though ownership of digital media items is a somewhat lesser ownership than owning a physical copy, and even though owning a physical DVD or Cd is somewhat of a lesser ownership than owning older media like a book or film, it's still ownership of some kind.



    Hulu is free. There is no monetary charge thus it is free. Nobody is forced to watch ads, we can visit another website via another tab while the ads play. Yes you don't own it, but you don't own cable TV and that is definitely not free.
  • Reply 42 of 110
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    And yet, despite all that digital media keeps on growing and growing. While there is no single media that will appeal to everyone, you fail to see that convenience is important factor. By your calculations Hulu should have never had anyone watching it and iTunes should have never had real sales, much less being the #1 worldwide distributor of music. Convenience should never be ignored. There is a long list of “superior” technologies that have failed because they were more cumbersome and/or more costly than “lesser" technologies.



    I don't know if Hulu is apropos to a discussion of paid media.



    I think online music is gangbusters because of convenience and price, not just convenience. You can buy just one track for a dirt cheap price, before, you had to buy the whole album even if you only wanted that one track, more convenient and much cheaper.



    Paid movie & TV downloads have convenience, but not price, so it's not surprising that Apple hasn't announced their video sales numbers in a long time, I don't think anyone else has either.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TitoC View Post


    For all of you thinking that ALL Cds and DVDs last longer than computer hardware . . . think again. I have digital tapes from 12 years ago that still work. Zip cartridges from 15 years ago that still work. Etc., etc., etc. Heck, I even have a Mac FX that still cranks up. But I also have not-so savvy friends who have music CDs that are less than 7 years old that can't play worth a damn. You have to take in care, environment, maintenance, etc. It all depends. It all depends.



    That's surprising, it's not that hard to treat an optical disc properly. I think I have one CD that has issues, and I have one DVD that has issues. I don't know if people that can't treat media very well can treat hardware very well either, how long do their computers last? My guess is that they probably don't have any backups either, so if their drive dies, then poof, everything they've bought is gone unless they can cajole the seller to allow them to re download it again.
  • Reply 43 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    well, your friends must have the worst CD etiquette on the planet then. My first CD (the 3" single of "One" by metallica) still plays and is flawlessly clean. It boggles my mind when i get rentals from blockbuster or Netflix that's all scratched up. which is one of the reasons why i stopped going to Blockbuster, netflix is way better about care with DVD's.



    Out of the the 400+ CD's i own, i've had only to re-purchase one because it fell out of my bag and hit the concrete. The rest are flawless, and i'm not really all that careful. Plus, not that they are all safely downloaded on iTunes i have my entire collection in my pocket.



    Studio CD's (from what i've read) are supposed to last up to 100 years. Way longer than any human needs and for Technology to trump it.



    If a CD is out lasted by a piece of computer hardware, then you've got problems.



    you must not have children



    and who cares how long the hardware lasts, digital content doesn't have to stay on one machine. It can move as many times as you need it to.
  • Reply 44 of 110
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alandail View Post


    you must not have children



    i don't, but even if i did, all my cd's are safely put into nice boxes on a shelf. And i know everyone who has kids say they'd get into my cd's anyway...but, i would teach my kids the value of not puking on my cds and dvds.



    I never played with my parent's records or 8-tracks, while they were looking, but when i did i made darn sure i was careful. because i was taught to respect other people's things.
  • Reply 45 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Hulu is not free.



    "Free with ads" is not "free." You are paying to watch the program by being forced to watch the ads.



    It's also bit of a mis-characterisation to talk about "free" or "paid" when you are talking about ephemeral things like streamed content and broadcasts. One can never own anything Hulu puts out, you don't "have" anything in your hand or on your shelf at home.



    I know this is part of the same argument you are making, but you can't really compare ownership of media with consumption of media streams. That's part of the reason why Jobs insists that people want to own their media, because being a smart guy, he wants to own his.



    Even though ownership of digital media items is a somewhat lesser ownership than owning a physical copy, and even though owning a physical DVD or Cd is somewhat of a lesser ownership than owning older media like a book or film, it's still ownership of some kind.



    Holy crap dude. Hulu does not cost the viewer money. Ergo, it's free. If I watch The Daily Show in iTunes it costs me $2 an episode. If I want to watch The Daily Show on television I have to have a minimum $50/mo cable plan to get a package that includes Comedy Central and also sit through commercials. if I watch The Daily Show on Hulu it costs me nothing. See?



    I have no desire to own something I'm only ever going to watch once.
  • Reply 46 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    i don't, but even if i did, all my cd's are safely put into nice boxes on a shelf. And i know everyone who has kids say they'd get into my cd's anyway...but, i would teach my kids the value of not puking on my cds and dvds.



    I never played with my parent's records or 8-tracks, while they were looking, but when i did i made darn sure i was careful. because i was taught to respect other people's things.



    Do you think kids are born with an adult mentality? Are 5 year olds not going to watch movies if they are your kids? I share my music and movies with my kids. Music and movies aren't priceless treasures, they are entertainment. Quite a few I buy specifically for my kids (like all of the pixar movies). They watch them so much they sometimes get scratched and won't play. That wouldn't happen with digital copies, just like it hasn't happened on the digital copies of my music, some of which is out of print.



    Buying Apple TVs and digital downloads would have made a lot more sense than buying DVDs and DVD players.
  • Reply 47 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alandail View Post


    Buying Apple TVs and digital downloads would have made a lot more sense than buying DVDs and DVD players.



    What happens when Apple discontinues the Apple TV because of poor sales, and the one you already own stops working or ceases to be compatible with some future digital media format? Buy a $600 Mac Mini stuck in Front Row mode as opposed to a replacement $30 DVD player? How about buying DVDs and ripping them to an Apple TV so you have a physical backup that's compatible with a billion devices?
  • Reply 48 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    More like when are they gonna rival DVDs in resolution?



    Since when are DVD movies encoded at 720p!?
  • Reply 49 of 110
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    And yet, despite all that digital media keeps on growing and growing.



    Digital media??? CD's, DVD's, and Blu-Rays are all digital media.
  • Reply 50 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    What happens when Apple discontinues the Apple TV because of poor sales, and the one you already own stops working or ceases to be compatible with some future digital media format? Buy a $600 Mac Mini stuck in Front Row mode as opposed to a replacement $30 DVD player?



    I can always plug my iPod, iPhone or laptop into my TV and run front row. I don't know if they will always make an AppleTV, but I know they'll always have a way to play videos on TV.



    One holdback on going that route is the lack of the extras, which was corrected today. Another one that has been corrected previously was the inability to have the HD content in iTunes.



    The main remaining issue is you can't easily rip movies you own into iTunes
  • Reply 51 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alandail View Post


    I can always plug my iPod, iPhone or laptop into my TV and run front row. I don't know if they will always make an AppleTV, but I know they'll always have a way to play videos on TV.



    Again though, why not buy a copy on DVD, rip it to an iPod-compatible format, and then store the DVD safely away from the destructive children?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alandail View Post


    One holdback on going that route is the lack of the extras, which was corrected today.



    Um, it was corrected for fourteen movies. Fourteen.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alandail View Post


    Another one that has been corrected previously was the inability to have the HD content in iTunes.



    Apple's "HD" content is about 1/10th the size of the same content on Blu-Ray; that's how much more they're compressing movies. The issue has not been corrected. The double copies you have to download for HD content (one SD for iPods/iPhones, one HD for your computer and Apple TV) is also a mess.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alandail View Post


    The main remaining issue is you can't easily rip movies you own into iTunes



    Maybe that's the main remaining issue for you, but Apple's movie distribution has a ton of BIG remaining issues. Digital distribution is a mess right now, largely due to distribution windows. Apple's offerings are relatively slim, and ever-changing. Movies come and go depending on who currently has exclusive rights. Some are available for rent, some for purchase, and some in HD; you can't count on ever knowing which they'll offer, if the film you're looking for is offered at all. And they're often available one month and not the next. It's an unreliable, inconsistent mess. Even if all of that were corrected, the prices are too high and the quality too low.
  • Reply 52 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    Apple's "HD" content is about 1/10th the size of the same content on Blu-Ray; that's how much more they're compressing movies.



    What if there was a format that was 10x that of Blu-ray, would you drop Blu-ray for it immediately because Blu-ray?s high-profile H.264 would now be old news? Would Blu-ray now look like shit to you? I doubt it would, but that is how a lot of use feel about lesser HD quality or even up-coverted DVDs or even SD. I find iTS more than sufficient for my needs when i want to rent to a movie. I haven?t been to a video store in years now (well before the iTS rented movies) and I can?t stand renting my Netflix video days in advance and then have to postpose a viewing from an occasional scratch. Blu-ray is great, but it?s not the only format and say that it?s the ONLY method ones hosuld use is silly. There are many people using many formats for many reasons. There is no reason why they can?t co-exist. I personally don?t like owning movies or TV shows so Blu-ray ownership at any price is just a waist to me and i don?t have large enough HDTV that I?m sitting so close to that iTS HD content doesn?t look considerably better than SD to me.
  • Reply 53 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    What if there was a format that was 10x that of Blu-ray, would you drop Blu-ray for it immediately because Blu-ray?s high-profile H.264 would now be old news?



    No. Unless you're looking at a 100 inch screen (which will never become the norm in homes), 1920x1080 Blu-Ray is seemingly lossless to the human eye. Until they start shooting films and television shows on some crazy 3D cameras (at which point content would be limited), the home theatre experience isn't going to get much better than what today's high end HDTVs coupled with a Blu-Ray player gets you.
  • Reply 54 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    No. Unless you're looking at a 100 inch screen (which will never become the norm in homes), 1920x1080 Blu-Ray is seemingly lossless to the human eye. Until they start shooting films and television shows on some crazy 3D cameras (at which point content would be limited), the home theatre experience isn't going to get much better than what today's high end HDTVs coupled with a Blu-Ray player gets you.



    Except for all the inconveniences that have been mentioned already. The only area that will improve for Blu-ray is that players won?t take as long to load in the future, or seek. It?s far from the ideal entertainment utopia you make it out to be. It?s the best A/V quality we can get in the home these days, but there is more than A/V quality when it comes to the total experience.
  • Reply 55 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    Except for all the inconveniences that have been mentioned already.



    What inconveniences are those?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    The only area that will improve for Blu-ray is that players won’t take as long to load in the future, or seek. It’s far from the ideal entertainment utopia you make it out to be. It’s the best A/V quality we can get in the home these days, but there is more than A/V quality when it comes to the total experience.



    It won't be getting better because it really has no areas it needs to or could improve. Apple's distribution model and format on the other hand is still trying to play catch up to to DVD, let alone Blu-Ray.
  • Reply 56 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    What inconveniences are those?



    The ones previously mentioned about time, energy, and expense of going out and getting a BRD and lack of convenience for an instance purchase from your home.



    Quote:

    It won't be getting better because it really has no areas it needs to or could improve. Apple's distribution model and format on the other hand is still trying to play catch up to to DVD, let alone Blu-Ray.



    Yes, there are. As previously stated, BRD players can?t change chapters as fast my iTunes Store rental or DVD can. There is just too much data for these players to handle that kind of instant switch at this point.
  • Reply 57 of 110
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Movies only in some countries. DVD importing should be added anyway. People shouldn't have to break the law to watch content they already own.



    Sadly, RIPping DVDs is ilegal in many countries (DMCA or equivelant), even if you own the DVD so I highly doubt Apple, which sells movies, would break the law and piss off the studios on one go.
  • Reply 58 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    The ones previously mentioned about time, energy, and expense of going out and getting a BRD and lack of convenience for an instance purchase from your home.



    It depends on your commute, but for me I can walk into a store and purchase a movie literally on my way home without any added expense or energy. What do you do when a movie isn't available from iTunes, which is often the case? There are only 63 movies available for purchase in HD from iTunes at this time. Where's the convenience in that?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    Yes, there are. As previously stated, BRD players can?t change chapters as fast my iTunes Store rental or DVD can. There is just too much data for these players to handle that kind of instant switch at this point.



    How much chapter changing do you honestly do while watching a film? Apparently a lot if the few extra seconds it takes is a major factor in your buying habits.
  • Reply 59 of 110
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post


    The ones previously mentioned about time, energy, and expense of going out and getting a BRD and lack of convenience for an instance purchase from your home.



    I've tried watching an HD trailer on my AppleTV and I gotta say that convenience was painful experience. Black screen for a long time so I had to stop it because nobody in our house could use the internet. The 1.5 Mbps DSL we have isn't slow. I will stick with Amazon and Netflix.
  • Reply 60 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pt123 View Post


    I've tried watching an HD trailer on my AppleTV and I gotta say that convenience was painful experience. Black screen for a long time so I had to stop it because nobody in our house could use the internet. The 1.5 Mbps DSL we have isn't slow. I will stick with Amazon and Netflix.



    That is quite slow for HD. That would choke SD, too as the Mbps for Apple?s SD is over your maximum ASDL speed. There HD isn?t great compared to Blu-ray but there content is at nearly 5Mbps. You just can?t stream it right away on a slow ASDL connection like that. Going to the video store may be a better option for you the way it is for Cory. Heck, my iPhone on 3G gets often gets higher connection speeds than your ADSL, though it?s obvious not constant and there is additional latency that make a cellular connection less than ideal for stream HD, too, but my cable is 20Mbps/2Mbps so I can watch them immediately and it don?t negatively affect the rest of my network. I can even watch high-profile H.264 1080p HD trailers with very little pause. I?m not sure if the trailer you watched matches the bitrate of Apple?s HD content or if it?s the much higher quality stuff that Apple?s trailer site offers. Regardless, your connection will require a buffering of any HD content.
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