And if MS wasn't so lazy as to let Apple jump on the mp3 bandwagon with 4-5 generations before they even got involved, then they would be more evenly matched.
Yes but Microsoft did get involved with the mp3 bandwagon.
However they employed their Windows strategy by selling software to companies and not consumers.
Build your store around out proprietary DRM.
Encode your music in our proprietary WMA format
Licence our proprietary WMA format for your portable players
I would like to point out that you are make baseless assumptions about Microsoft's plans. To presume they "aren't hungry for it" when it has been stated the Zune is not their focus is ignorant at best.
The Zune is not a means to make money. It is a means to refine a necessary and wonderfully functioning part of a whole on it's own.
I recommend all of you Apple fanbois stop being so defensive and blind. Look to WinMo7. Your Apple products have been out of date since before they were released. Everyone in the industry understands this. You all do not.
Look at the big picture. WinMo7 will easily (I cannot stress the easily enough) do everything the Apple products can do and much more. It already can in beta. It can run iphone apps as though it was native to the WinMo7 platform (which it isn't. It's running off an emulator, illegally). Once they finish integrating the Zune technology into WinMo7 and launch the first phone THEN the competition will start.
This isn't even a preliminary. Stop acting like technology from the beginning of this decade will have any viable direct impact on the technology of the next decade.
TL;DR version: All of you fanbois from both sides just shut up already. No one cares about your self aggrandizing. ignorant, and half baked opinions. Sit back, relax, and enjoy what we have now. The majority of you will start falling behind soon anyway. Let the next generation, both of players and of humans, do their thing. You aren't important. At all.
Quote:
Edit: Half of you posting in this forum cannot even follow a linear thought pattern
The problem with MS is that they have never had to really come out with a leading quality consumer system that made money. Never!
The XBox has cost them billions of dollars. They will likely never come close to breaking even given that they've already lost over $7 billion on their entertainment division since it came out. The Zune's are part of that division, and are also losing money.
This is their problem. They aren't hungry for it. They feel that they have to be in these areas, and so they are. But they take their time of it because they figure their money will allow them to continue to make mistakes until they get it sort of right.
That's why they never lead, but trail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot
See above!
Perhaps you should provide some actual proof besides internet memes.
Simply because you do not appreciate the candor with which I speak does not make me a troll. If anything your comment is more along the liens of trolling. This is proven especially true when I found you didn't actually ignore me. Stop crying for attention and provide something useful to the conversation.
I would like to point out that you are make baseless assumptions about Microsoft's plans. To presume they "aren't hungry for it" when it has been stated the Zune is not their focus is ignorant at best.
The Zune is not a means to make money. It is a means to refine a necessary and wonderfully functioning part of a whole on it's own.
I recommend all of you Apple fanbois stop being so defensive and blind. Look to WinMo7. Your Apple products have been out of date since before they were released. Everyone in the industry understands this. You all do not.
Look at the big picture. WinMo7 will easily (I cannot stress the easily enough) do everything the Apple products can do and much more. It already can in beta. It can run iphone apps as though it was native to the WinMo7 platform (which it isn't. It's running off an emulator, illegally). Once they finish integrating the Zune technology into WinMo7 and launch the first phone THEN the competition will start.
This isn't even a preliminary. Stop acting like technology from the beginning of this decade will have any viable direct impact on the technology of the next decade.
TL;DR version: All of you fanbois from both sides just shut up already. No one cares about your self aggrandizing. ignorant, and half baked opinions. Sit back, relax, and enjoy what we have now. The majority of you will start falling behind soon anyway. Let the next generation, both of players and of humans, do their thing. You aren't important. At all.
Edit: Half of you posting in this forum cannot even follow a linear thought pattern (or at least lack the ability to use the english language to express that you can). Stop mouth-breathing.
Oh please!
If you knew anything about MS, or business for that matter, you wouldn't be ranting the way you are.
MS themselves has has said that the entertainment division is very important to the future of MS.
But they have a legal monopoly on OS and tools, and a de facto monopoly on Office. Both of those divisions provide most of MS's sales, and pretty much ALL of their considerable profits.
Like no other company, MS can sit back and work on these products until they finally start to sell.
You may want to show your own prejudices by using words to describe it as "wonderful", but that is meaningless.
You know know nothing about Win Mobile 7, because unlike what you're saying, it isn't in a public beta, so there is only guessing as to its features. Don't make things up. There is very little known about it, other that, finally, it will allow multitouch screens using capacitive technology, years behind everyone else, and likely will have an app store like Apple, and won't allow third party publishers sell anywhere else, like Apple. MAYBE improved handwriting recognition. The rest just comes close to catching up with what Apple has already had for 6 months or more.
Simply because you do not appreciate the candor with which I speak does not make me a troll. If anything your comment is more along the liens of trolling. This is proven especially true when I found you didn't actually ignore me. Stop crying for attention and provide something useful to the conversation.
You're not speaking with candor. You're speaking with rancor. Yes, you can look it up.
You've just come here to attempt to spit on us. You're aim isn't too good though.
Remember the expression; "Don't spit into the wind."
To claim that the xbox360 is a failure would be close to insanity, but I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from these forums. I guess you think Natal is epic fail too, and that it is not innovative. I'm pretty sure you cannot in your head find anything positive about anything from MS.
The 360 is the defacto standard for hardcore gamers. And yes, I own all 3 of the consoles.
If a company is losing money, that somehow makes their products bad? So if some guy at a corner is giving away $10 bills, the $10 bill has to suck, since he is losing money by giving it away?
I've seen the same argument with the ZunePass. Since SJ cannot figure out how to make money on it; it has to suck. Are all of you guys shareholders or board members for Apple? Who gives a shit if a product makes a profit as long as it?s a product someone wants.
If you knew anything about MS, or business for that matter, you wouldn't be ranting the way you are.
MS themselves has has said that the entertainment division is very important to the future of MS.
But they have a legal monopoly on OS and tools, and a de facto monopoly on Office. Both of those divisions provide most of MS's sales, and pretty much ALL of their considerable profits.
Like no other company, MS can sit back and work on these products until they finally start to sell.
You may want to show your own prejudices by using words to describe it as "wonderful", but that is meaningless.
You know know nothing about Win Mobile 7, because unlike what you're saying, it isn't in a public beta, so there is only guessing as to its features. Don't make things up. There is very little known about it, other that, finally, it will allow multitouch screens using capacitive technology, years behind everyone else, and likely will have an app store like Apple, and won't allow third party publishers sell anywhere else, like Apple. MAYBE improved handwriting recognition. The rest just comes close to catching up with what Apple has already had for 6 months or more.
It DOESN'T run iPhone apps.
No. It isn't a public beta. I never claimed it to be. It is a closed beta that I, unfortunately, am not participating in. I assure you that you are completely wrong on the features though. I would provide proof but I cannot for reasons beyond my control, so this argument is pointless. We shall see in the not too distant future how willingly ignorant you really are.
It DOES run Iphone apps. On an a makeshift emulator developed by two beta testers. Stop speaking on that which you know nothing about.
To claim that the xbox360 is a failure would be close to insanity, but I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from these forums. I guess you think Natal is epic fail too, and that it is not innovative. I'm pretty sure you cannot in your head find anything positive about anything from MS.
The 360 is the defacto standard for hardcore gamers. And yes, I own all 3 of the consoles.
If a company is losing money, that somehow makes their products bad? So if some guy at a corner is giving away $10 bills, the $10 bill has to suck, since he is losing money by giving it away?
I've seen the same argument with the ZunePass. Since SJ cannot figure out how to make money on it; it has to suck. Are all of you guys shareholders or board members for Apple? Who gives a shit if a product makes a profit as long as it’s a product someone wants.
/twospoons.
The 2002 article is jut as relevant as all the others up there. Why? Because it shoes that MS has lost money on the XBox from the very beginning.
I don't know why you think that the one article you linked to is relevant. I also posted articles from most other years up to the present, showing that MS is continuing to lose money on this hand over foot. Apple only lost money for a short time. Perhaps you should have done as I did, and posted financial articles about apple up to the present.
Did you even read the other articles? Did you read the first one?
I'm not saying that the XBox is a bad game machine. It's a terribly defective game machine, which is why MS was forced to put $1.3 billion in an escrow account for repairs, a number that's been estimated to possibly rise as high as $3 billion.
While for most of the PS's lifetime, Sony has made billions in profit. The PS3's development was very high in cost, so they've had problems and it came out late, though they're now making profits. Perhaps MS should not have rushed the 360 out as they've been accused of doing when the PS3 was pushed back. Perhaps it wouldn't have been defective.
But no other company would have continued the XBox other than MS, because no other company could have afforded to lose so much money on it. The point I'm making, which you haven't acknowledged, is that it's only MS's monopoly profits that have kept their entire entertainment division afloat, despite calls from investors for MS to drop it.
Do you really think that if the XBox cost 50% more than is has over the years, that it would have been bought by many of those who have been buying it?
Of course not. It would have failed as a product. The fact that the 360 is a good game machine (where the old XBox was just meh) wouldn't matter, because it would never have been produced. Any other company would have discontinued it long before that. Just like all the other game companies over the years that dropped out.
You can't present any good ideas in your posts, so you resort to insults, as PC people aslways seem to do.
Zune pass hasn't been even 1% as successful as Apple's iTunes, and you know it.
No. It isn't a public beta. I never claimed it to be. It is a closed beta that I, unfortunately, am not participating in. I assure you that you are completely wrong on the features though. I would provide proof but I cannot for reasons beyond my control, so this argument is pointless. We shall see in the not too distant future how willingly ignorant you really are.
It DOES run Iphone apps. On an a makeshift emulator developed by two beta testers. Stop speaking on that which you know nothing about.
I've read lots of articles about it. There are a few new features that are known, that are playing catch up. There are a few others that are speculated upon, some of which we will likely see, and some that we likely won't see.
But other than that, there is just MS's usual hype.
You do remember all the features Longhorn was supposed to be getting? well, you also remember that Vista got almost none of them.
I know far more about this than you do apparently. I know all about that "emulator" which barely works, and will never run the programs in a useful way. So to all purposes, the programs don't run.
The 2002 article is jut as relevant as all the others up there. Why? Because it shoes that MS has lost money on the XBox from the very beginning.
I don't know why you think that the one article you linked to is relevant. I also posted articles from most other years up to the present, showing that MS is continuing to lose money on this hand over foot. Apple only lost money for a short time. Perhaps you should have done as I did, and posted financial articles about apple up to the present.
Did you even read the other articles? Did you read the first one?
I'm not saying that the XBox is a bad game machine. It's a terribly defective game machine, which is why MS was forced to put $1.3 billion in an escrow account for repairs, a number that's been estimated to possibly rise as high as $3 billion.
While for most of the PS's lifetime, Sony has made billions in profit. The PS3's development was very high in cost, so they've had problems and it came out late, though they're now making profits. Perhaps MS should not have rushed the 360 out as they've been accused of doing when the PS3 was pushed back. Perhaps it wouldn't have been defective.
But no other company would have continued the XBox other than MS, because no other company could have afforded to lose so much money on it. The point I'm making, which you haven't acknowledged, is that it's only MS's monopoly profits that have kept their entire entertainment division afloat, despite calls from investors for MS to drop it.
Do you really think that if the XBox cost 50% more than is has over the years, that it would have been bought by many of those who have been buying it?
Of course not. It would have failed as a product. The fact that the 360 is a good game machine (where the old XBox was just meh) wouldn't matter, because it would never have been produced. Any other company would have discontinued it long before that. Just like all the other game companies over the years that dropped out.
You can't present any good ideas in your posts, so you resort to insults, as PC people aslways seem to do.
Zune pass hasn't been even 1% as successful as Apple's iTunes, and you know it.
The Zune Pass is IN ADDITION to a regular service like iTunes. You don't HAVE to buy it, you can just buy tunes like you do on iTunes. I fail to see how that is bad, IT IS IN ADDITION. I have not met anyone except Apple people who think this is a bad service. But you don't have to buy it, you can CHOOSE to buy it, or you can use the iTunes model. More choice is better right?
For the articles you listed, it's all negative spin. You opted NOT to list any articles which put the 360 in a good light. And you failed to list ANY articles which shows that the 360 has made profits, which I'm pretty sure is not just an oversight on your part, since you seem pretty enlightened. Not sure what the 250gb model had to do with anything, you can CHOOSE to buy it if you want it. The ent. division is making money, it was close to $700M in 2008, 2009 is looking to be about 1/3 of that, but they are making money.
So, you are saying you should never compete if you have money, because you can try and fail alot and eventually get a good product? How about taking some stabs at the iTunes monopoly? It's so bizarre that is almost unreal.
And no, I'm not a PC guy, I got all tons of hardware. To be honest, I still mourn of the death of the Amiga. But at least I try to look at all types or hardware, and not judge things by who manufactures it, and let a product stand on it's own feet.
The PS3 has been a failure from a Sony standpoint, but they are also as stubborn as MS and refuses to cave in. You linked an old article where the xbox1 outsold the 360, yet, the PS2 STILL outsells the PS3. Failed to mention that too uh? Both Sony and MS are selling the console with losses. Is that bad? Hell no, I WANT many options. And the winner is the consumer.
Apple needs a good competitor in the pmp market, or else they can pretty much charge whatever the hell they want for their products. Or do you think that the iPod price drops had nothing to do with the fact that the Zune HD beat them on price?
I KNOW that the 360 dropped $100 in price because of the $299 PS3, so we all win.
The Zune Pass is IN ADDITION to a regular service like iTunes. You don't HAVE to buy it, you can just buy tunes like you do on iTunes. I fail to see how that is bad, IT IS IN ADDITION. I have not met anyone except Apple people who think this is a bad service. But you don't have to buy it, you can CHOOSE to buy it, or you can use the iTunes model. More choice is better right?
I have nothing against subscription services. If you were here for more than this argument, you would see all the posts in which I've said that.
But, subscription services, whether Zune Pass or any other are simply not popular.
In fact, several years ago Jobs was asked in an interview about subscriptions. He said that if enough customers wanted it, Apple would offer it.
So I'm not criticizing it, I'm simply telling the truth about it, it's not popular.
Why are Zune sales at 1% Can you answer that? And don't talk silly, and say Apple hype, because you know better.
Quote:
For the articles you listed, it's all negative spin. You opted NOT to list any articles which put the 360 in a good light. And you failed to list ANY articles which shows that the 360 has made profits, which I'm pretty sure is not just an oversight on your part, since you seem pretty enlightened. Not sure what the 250gb model had to do with anything, you can CHOOSE to buy it if you want it. The ent. division is making money, it was close to $700M in 2008, 2009 is looking to be about 1/3 of that, but they are making money.
There has been a short time when the 360 looked as though it was making a profit, but the defects ended that possibility when MS set aside that $1.3 billion for repairs. If repair costs come anywhere near that sum, and reach another $3 billion as it's thought it might, what happens to those "profits"?
I did say that as a game machine it was good. I have nothing against it as a game machine. Do you skim what I say and only choose to read the bad parts?
Quote:
So, you are saying you should never compete if you have money, because you can try and fail alot and eventually get a good product? How about taking some stabs at the iTunes monopoly? It's so bizarre that is almost unreal.
What I'm saying, as most in the industry have said, is that no other company would have kept the product line for so long, and would not have developed the 360 because of the large, continuing losses.
That's a childish remark about iTunes. Apple hasn't lost money on that, and actually makes a profit. But they've made billions in profits off the almost 250 million iPods they've sold.
How about taking some stabs at the Windows monopoly, It's so bizarre.
Quote:
And no, I'm not a PC guy, I got all tons of hardware. To be honest, I still mourn of the death of the Amiga. But at least I try to look at all types or hardware, and not judge things by who manufactures it, and let a product stand on it's own feet.
You don't seem to be doing that.
Quote:
The PS3 has been a failure from a Sony standpoint, but they are also as stubborn as MS and refuses to cave in. You linked an old article where the xbox1 outsold the 360, yet, the PS2 STILL outsells the PS3. Failed to mention that too uh? Both Sony and MS are selling the console with losses. Is that bad? Hell no, I WANT many options. And the winner is the consumer.
Yes, the PS3 has had problems, no doubt, as I've said to you. but they have also announced that the division is making a profit, so you believe whom you want to. But the PS3 is also credited with helping Sony win with Blu-Ray over Toshiba's HD DVD, which MS also backed. That will make Sony billions in profits over the years as well. What does MS have to show for its losses so far?
I didn't FAIL to mention it, the thrust of the conversation was the 360 over there.
But now that you brought it up, it I interesting that an old, almost obsolete system is running almost even in sales with MS's newest and best, isn't it? Between the two, the PS3 and the PS2, Sony is selling a lot more units than MS is. Happy you mentioned it. Thanks.
Well, the customer does have the option to buy the PS2. And let's not forget the Wii, which is beating the pants off both, and making a ton of money too.
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Apple needs a good competitor in the pmp market, or else they can pretty much charge whatever the hell they want for their products. Or do you think that the iPod price drops had nothing to do with the fact that the Zune HD beat them on price?
I certainly agree with you here. Apple needs competitors to keep them on their toes. Sandisk is doing ok with over 7% of sales. We can wonder about that for a while.
If the Zune increased its sales by 400% that would be good. I don't know if it can happen, but if it did, it would move them past where they were shortly after they came out, which was 3.4% If it went higher, then maybe Apple would pay attention, but likely most sales won't come from them, it will come from the other players, as Sandisk's has. Apple's sales have been a steady 71 to 73%.
in addition, it now looks as though player sales are moving into smartphone sales. I think that's happening across the board. That is, every manufacturer is being affected. Apple's iPod sales are down a bit, but they still hold the same percentage of the market, which means that everyone is losing sales.
Quote:
I KNOW that the 360 dropped $100 in price because of the $299 PS3, so we all win.
/twospoons
True, and the PS3 sales moved up a lot as a result. It's too early to see how both drops will affect the sales of the 360, but Wii sales have fallen as well, and so Nintendo will be giving it, I think a $50 price cut, as well.
No. It isn't a public beta. I never claimed it to be. It is a closed beta that I, unfortunately, am not participating in. I assure you that you are completely wrong on the features though. I would provide proof but I cannot for reasons beyond my control, so this argument is pointless. We shall see in the not too distant future how willingly ignorant you really are.
It DOES run Iphone apps. On an a makeshift emulator developed by two beta testers. Stop speaking on that which you know nothing about.
Still, we're all very impressed with a new poster who introduces himself by imperiously dismissing "fanboys" and proceeds to immediately embarrass himself with over the top mash notes to WinMo 7 and the glory of Microsoft's mobile strategy. Apple fans are merely pleased with the equipment they use every day; it takes a special kind of zealot to belittle everyone for failing to fall to their knees and worship the future.
But you know, whatever, I'm sure on the day that WinMo 7 is released all Apple customers will weep bitter tears and rend their garments at the terrible lesson they will be taught. On account of the awesomeness. At the very least you can assume that they're secretly doing so inside, regardless of what they claim.
Hey, I know, you can get together with that other Zune lunatic and start boldfacing every other phrase. Trust me, it makes your posts way more persuasive.
This debunks only one of Prince Mclean's points, though others are equally inaccurate. It is written by the OLED Association.
I beg of you, please please please don't just read things like this and accept it as truth. This guy has ZERO citations. He smears truth with fallacies. It's just a mess. Just realize that anybody out there can type something up like this and sound like they know what they're talking about you've GOT to cross reference this stuff. Investigate it. It's your satisfaction with your product and your money at risk!
Apple makes beautiful, gorgeous, seamlessly integrated products. By all means, buy Apple products if that's what you love! But don't let people like this write libelous statements like this without calling him out and putting up a fight. I was so compelled by this article that I joined Apple Insider to comment.
You have to ask yourself why a site like this would have to tear down a competing product. If the Zune HD was really such a crappy product, then just let it fail by itself. I think this brings to light the writer's ulterior motives. He hates Microsoft and he hates Zune SO he dug up as much dirt as he could find and then threw in some blatant lies. Facts first, people, THEN start making conclusions. The truth is, the Zune HD is an *extremely* viable alternative to an Apple PMP (if a PMP is what you're looking for). Look into it. Play with one at Best Buy. Explore your options.
Response to APPLE INSIDER Post on the Microsoft ZUNE
,
September 16, 2009
The “Apple Insider”: a Display Outsider or an Apple Shill?
On Monday, Prince McLean released a blog post titled “From OLED to Tegra: Five Myths of the Zune HD.” I won’t comment about the other 4 Myths but his comments about OLEDs demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge regarding the performance, specifications and use of flat panel displays. He makes several erroneous statements about OLEDS, including:
First OLED myth: “OLEDs are dimmer that LCDs because the luminance is only 200 cd/m2, while LCDs have luminance of 400-500 cd/m2.” LCDs TVs have luminance of 4-500 cd/m2, but displays on mobile devices is typically 200 to 250 cd/m2. The display on the Zune is spec’d at 250 cd/m2 before the addition of the touch features. Moreover, it has been demonstrated by Samsung, a TFT LCD supplier, that OLEDs at 250 cd/m2 have the same perceived brightness at TFT LCDs at 400 cd/m2.
Second OLED myth: “A good quality LCD actually uses ambient light to make its image brighter and more vibrant; OLED does not.” Mobile devices often use transflective LCDs, which operate in two modes, (1) a reflective mode in which the backlight if off and (2) a transmissive mode, in which the backlight is on. Both modes are compromises but serve the market well. OLEDs, which are emissive devices, use higher luminance to overcome the effect of high ambient conditions. Again, Samsung reports that OLEDs at 300 cd/m2 will outperform any transflective LCD is bright sunlight.
Third OLED myth: “There are other problems with OLED. They don't last long, because the electroluminescence layer degrades far more rapidly than regular LCDs.” The OLED display in the Zune has a lifetime of 50,000 hours. Typically LCDs for mobile products are rated at ~25,000. However, none of this is very important – These types of products have a useful life of 5-years, which at 8 hours/day and 365 days a year is only 15,000 hours; well within the capability of either technology.
Fourth OLED myth: “And despite the power savings attributed to OLED's backlight-free design, OLEDs still use more power than LCD displays most of the time because the OLED technology consumes power based on how bright the image it is displaying is. Essentially, OLED is the backlight”. It has been demonstrated and documented by Nokia that when the application is video or imaging, OLEDs use less than ½ the power of a comparable TFT LCD. McLean’s comment that the OLED is a backlight just demonstrates his lack of knowledge about displays. Emissive displays (OLEDs, PDPs) do not require backlights as they emit light without the need for an external source of light. If the image is black, i.e. the UI for the Apple iPod or the iPhone, an OLED uses almost no power, while the LCD uses maximum power under all conditions. The situation is so bad that LCD TVs are being designed with 100s of LEDs at high cost to implement local dimming to reduce power consumption.
Some questions remain:
1. Why would Microsoft choose an OLED for its Zune? Could it be that OLEDs are
· Thinner and Lighter – The display is only 1 mm thick
· Faster – The response time is 5 µsec compared with 5 msec for the best LCDs. There is no blurring or shadowing on the fastest images
· Better in color gamut – OLEDs operate at >100% of the NTSC standard, while LCDs for small displays operate at <100% of NTSC
· 1000x better than the contrast of LCDs – Most films, TV and camera images operate at an average of ~20% of saturated colors, i.e. relatively dark, so contrast ratio as defined by black levels is significant for viewing purposes. In bright sunlight reflective devices only produce <15% contrast ratio.
· More efficient – ~50% of the power for the applications used on the Zune and the iPod.
· Virtually perfect image reproducers at wide viewing angle – while LCDs could lose up to 90% of their contrast ratio
2. Why would Microsoft choose a dark environment to demonstrate the OLED? Because it looks so good!
3. Why would Prince McLean write about something that he obviously has so little knowledge? Could it be that the Apple Insider is trying to curry favor with the Apple management so it can become an even deeper shill? It has become a popular art to predict what Apple is going to do and the company is very careful to keep its information on new products, closely held, so McLean may be hoping to get better access. I did not comment about the “Other Myths” in McLean’s article but if they are anything like his comments about OLEDs, you can draw your own conclusions about their relevance.
Finally, I wonder how McLean would respond to the quote by Steve Jobs, when his display technologists showed him OLED displays for the first time, “that’s the best f----n display I have ever seen.”
Like everything else, some of the information you presented is correct, and some is not.
Why would you consider the OLED Association anything more than a shill for the OLED manufacturers who make up its membership?
Are they any less of a shill than AI? Highly doubtful, after all while the OLED Association is totally dependent on the LED manufacturers that pay for the salaries of the people working there, including whomever wrote the unlinked to response, AI has no direct relationship with Apple, or any other company.
The purpose of the Association is to Promote the use of LEDS, and therefor the sales and profits of its members.
They have no ax to grind. Indeed not.
Do you think that these LED manufacturers would want people to know that their products do have some problems? Hmmm. That's a tough one.
Comments
And if MS wasn't so lazy as to let Apple jump on the mp3 bandwagon with 4-5 generations before they even got involved, then they would be more evenly matched.
Yes but Microsoft did get involved with the mp3 bandwagon.
However they employed their Windows strategy by selling software to companies and not consumers.
Build your store around out proprietary DRM.
Encode your music in our proprietary WMA format
Licence our proprietary WMA format for your portable players
etc etc...
It didn't work.
I would like to point out that you are make baseless assumptions about Microsoft's plans. To presume they "aren't hungry for it" when it has been stated the Zune is not their focus is ignorant at best.
The Zune is not a means to make money. It is a means to refine a necessary and wonderfully functioning part of a whole on it's own.
I recommend all of you Apple fanbois stop being so defensive and blind. Look to WinMo7. Your Apple products have been out of date since before they were released. Everyone in the industry understands this. You all do not.
Look at the big picture. WinMo7 will easily (I cannot stress the easily enough) do everything the Apple products can do and much more. It already can in beta. It can run iphone apps as though it was native to the WinMo7 platform (which it isn't. It's running off an emulator, illegally). Once they finish integrating the Zune technology into WinMo7 and launch the first phone THEN the competition will start.
This isn't even a preliminary. Stop acting like technology from the beginning of this decade will have any viable direct impact on the technology of the next decade.
TL;DR version: All of you fanbois from both sides just shut up already. No one cares about your self aggrandizing. ignorant, and half baked opinions. Sit back, relax, and enjoy what we have now. The majority of you will start falling behind soon anyway. Let the next generation, both of players and of humans, do their thing. You aren't important. At all.
Edit: Half of you posting in this forum cannot even follow a linear thought pattern
See above!
The problem with MS is that they have never had to really come out with a leading quality consumer system that made money. Never!
The XBox has cost them billions of dollars. They will likely never come close to breaking even given that they've already lost over $7 billion on their entertainment division since it came out. The Zune's are part of that division, and are also losing money.
This is their problem. They aren't hungry for it. They feel that they have to be in these areas, and so they are. But they take their time of it because they figure their money will allow them to continue to make mistakes until they get it sort of right.
That's why they never lead, but trail.
See above!
Perhaps you should provide some actual proof besides internet memes.
Blatant attempt at trolling noted. And ignored.
Simply because you do not appreciate the candor with which I speak does not make me a troll. If anything your comment is more along the liens of trolling. This is proven especially true when I found you didn't actually ignore me. Stop crying for attention and provide something useful to the conversation.
Stop crying for attention and provide something useful to the conversation.
I will if you will.
I would like to point out that you are make baseless assumptions about Microsoft's plans. To presume they "aren't hungry for it" when it has been stated the Zune is not their focus is ignorant at best.
The Zune is not a means to make money. It is a means to refine a necessary and wonderfully functioning part of a whole on it's own.
I recommend all of you Apple fanbois stop being so defensive and blind. Look to WinMo7. Your Apple products have been out of date since before they were released. Everyone in the industry understands this. You all do not.
Look at the big picture. WinMo7 will easily (I cannot stress the easily enough) do everything the Apple products can do and much more. It already can in beta. It can run iphone apps as though it was native to the WinMo7 platform (which it isn't. It's running off an emulator, illegally). Once they finish integrating the Zune technology into WinMo7 and launch the first phone THEN the competition will start.
This isn't even a preliminary. Stop acting like technology from the beginning of this decade will have any viable direct impact on the technology of the next decade.
TL;DR version: All of you fanbois from both sides just shut up already. No one cares about your self aggrandizing. ignorant, and half baked opinions. Sit back, relax, and enjoy what we have now. The majority of you will start falling behind soon anyway. Let the next generation, both of players and of humans, do their thing. You aren't important. At all.
Edit: Half of you posting in this forum cannot even follow a linear thought pattern (or at least lack the ability to use the english language to express that you can). Stop mouth-breathing.
Oh please!
If you knew anything about MS, or business for that matter, you wouldn't be ranting the way you are.
MS themselves has has said that the entertainment division is very important to the future of MS.
But they have a legal monopoly on OS and tools, and a de facto monopoly on Office. Both of those divisions provide most of MS's sales, and pretty much ALL of their considerable profits.
Like no other company, MS can sit back and work on these products until they finally start to sell.
You may want to show your own prejudices by using words to describe it as "wonderful", but that is meaningless.
You know know nothing about Win Mobile 7, because unlike what you're saying, it isn't in a public beta, so there is only guessing as to its features. Don't make things up. There is very little known about it, other that, finally, it will allow multitouch screens using capacitive technology, years behind everyone else, and likely will have an app store like Apple, and won't allow third party publishers sell anywhere else, like Apple. MAYBE improved handwriting recognition. The rest just comes close to catching up with what Apple has already had for 6 months or more.
It DOESN'T run iPhone apps.
Perhaps you should provide some actual proof besides internet memes.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-818798.html
http://www.itworld.com/030203xboxlosses
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...8/xboxloses4bi
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148512.html
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...x-ravaging.ars
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...122_410710.htm
http://www.gamepro.com/article/featu...is-in-trouble/
http://www.wikinvest.com/concept/Gam...g_all_the_time
http://www.411mania.com/games/column...3-and-More.htm
http://www.examiner.com/x-21852-Sant...d-avoid-making
Gee, how many more of these should I post. There are hundreds!
Simply because you do not appreciate the candor with which I speak does not make me a troll. If anything your comment is more along the liens of trolling. This is proven especially true when I found you didn't actually ignore me. Stop crying for attention and provide something useful to the conversation.
You're not speaking with candor. You're speaking with rancor. Yes, you can look it up.
You've just come here to attempt to spit on us. You're aim isn't too good though.
Remember the expression; "Don't spit into the wind."
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-818798.html
http://www.itworld.com/030203xboxlosses
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...8/xboxloses4bi
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148512.html
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...x-ravaging.ars
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...122_410710.htm
http://www.gamepro.com/article/featu...is-in-trouble/
http://www.wikinvest.com/concept/Gam...g_all_the_time
http://www.411mania.com/games/column...3-and-More.htm
http://www.examiner.com/x-21852-Sant...d-avoid-making
Gee, how many more of these should I post. There are hundreds!
That 2002 article is really relevant. Let me dig up some old Apple news to prove that Apple is failing..
OMG, look at this:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...icleID=6507430
To claim that the xbox360 is a failure would be close to insanity, but I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from these forums. I guess you think Natal is epic fail too, and that it is not innovative. I'm pretty sure you cannot in your head find anything positive about anything from MS.
The 360 is the defacto standard for hardcore gamers. And yes, I own all 3 of the consoles.
If a company is losing money, that somehow makes their products bad? So if some guy at a corner is giving away $10 bills, the $10 bill has to suck, since he is losing money by giving it away?
I've seen the same argument with the ZunePass. Since SJ cannot figure out how to make money on it; it has to suck. Are all of you guys shareholders or board members for Apple? Who gives a shit if a product makes a profit as long as it?s a product someone wants.
/twospoons.
Oh please!
If you knew anything about MS, or business for that matter, you wouldn't be ranting the way you are.
MS themselves has has said that the entertainment division is very important to the future of MS.
But they have a legal monopoly on OS and tools, and a de facto monopoly on Office. Both of those divisions provide most of MS's sales, and pretty much ALL of their considerable profits.
Like no other company, MS can sit back and work on these products until they finally start to sell.
You may want to show your own prejudices by using words to describe it as "wonderful", but that is meaningless.
You know know nothing about Win Mobile 7, because unlike what you're saying, it isn't in a public beta, so there is only guessing as to its features. Don't make things up. There is very little known about it, other that, finally, it will allow multitouch screens using capacitive technology, years behind everyone else, and likely will have an app store like Apple, and won't allow third party publishers sell anywhere else, like Apple. MAYBE improved handwriting recognition. The rest just comes close to catching up with what Apple has already had for 6 months or more.
It DOESN'T run iPhone apps.
No. It isn't a public beta. I never claimed it to be. It is a closed beta that I, unfortunately, am not participating in. I assure you that you are completely wrong on the features though. I would provide proof but I cannot for reasons beyond my control, so this argument is pointless. We shall see in the not too distant future how willingly ignorant you really are.
It DOES run Iphone apps. On an a makeshift emulator developed by two beta testers. Stop speaking on that which you know nothing about.
That 2002 article is really relevant. Let me dig up some old Apple news to prove that Apple is failing..
OMG, look at this:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...icleID=6507430
To claim that the xbox360 is a failure would be close to insanity, but I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from these forums. I guess you think Natal is epic fail too, and that it is not innovative. I'm pretty sure you cannot in your head find anything positive about anything from MS.
The 360 is the defacto standard for hardcore gamers. And yes, I own all 3 of the consoles.
If a company is losing money, that somehow makes their products bad? So if some guy at a corner is giving away $10 bills, the $10 bill has to suck, since he is losing money by giving it away?
I've seen the same argument with the ZunePass. Since SJ cannot figure out how to make money on it; it has to suck. Are all of you guys shareholders or board members for Apple? Who gives a shit if a product makes a profit as long as it’s a product someone wants.
/twospoons.
The 2002 article is jut as relevant as all the others up there. Why? Because it shoes that MS has lost money on the XBox from the very beginning.
I don't know why you think that the one article you linked to is relevant. I also posted articles from most other years up to the present, showing that MS is continuing to lose money on this hand over foot. Apple only lost money for a short time. Perhaps you should have done as I did, and posted financial articles about apple up to the present.
Did you even read the other articles? Did you read the first one?
I'm not saying that the XBox is a bad game machine. It's a terribly defective game machine, which is why MS was forced to put $1.3 billion in an escrow account for repairs, a number that's been estimated to possibly rise as high as $3 billion.
While for most of the PS's lifetime, Sony has made billions in profit. The PS3's development was very high in cost, so they've had problems and it came out late, though they're now making profits. Perhaps MS should not have rushed the 360 out as they've been accused of doing when the PS3 was pushed back. Perhaps it wouldn't have been defective.
But no other company would have continued the XBox other than MS, because no other company could have afforded to lose so much money on it. The point I'm making, which you haven't acknowledged, is that it's only MS's monopoly profits that have kept their entire entertainment division afloat, despite calls from investors for MS to drop it.
Do you really think that if the XBox cost 50% more than is has over the years, that it would have been bought by many of those who have been buying it?
Of course not. It would have failed as a product. The fact that the 360 is a good game machine (where the old XBox was just meh) wouldn't matter, because it would never have been produced. Any other company would have discontinued it long before that. Just like all the other game companies over the years that dropped out.
You can't present any good ideas in your posts, so you resort to insults, as PC people aslways seem to do.
Zune pass hasn't been even 1% as successful as Apple's iTunes, and you know it.
No. It isn't a public beta. I never claimed it to be. It is a closed beta that I, unfortunately, am not participating in. I assure you that you are completely wrong on the features though. I would provide proof but I cannot for reasons beyond my control, so this argument is pointless. We shall see in the not too distant future how willingly ignorant you really are.
It DOES run Iphone apps. On an a makeshift emulator developed by two beta testers. Stop speaking on that which you know nothing about.
I've read lots of articles about it. There are a few new features that are known, that are playing catch up. There are a few others that are speculated upon, some of which we will likely see, and some that we likely won't see.
But other than that, there is just MS's usual hype.
You do remember all the features Longhorn was supposed to be getting? well, you also remember that Vista got almost none of them.
I know far more about this than you do apparently. I know all about that "emulator" which barely works, and will never run the programs in a useful way. So to all purposes, the programs don't run.
The 2002 article is jut as relevant as all the others up there. Why? Because it shoes that MS has lost money on the XBox from the very beginning.
I don't know why you think that the one article you linked to is relevant. I also posted articles from most other years up to the present, showing that MS is continuing to lose money on this hand over foot. Apple only lost money for a short time. Perhaps you should have done as I did, and posted financial articles about apple up to the present.
Did you even read the other articles? Did you read the first one?
I'm not saying that the XBox is a bad game machine. It's a terribly defective game machine, which is why MS was forced to put $1.3 billion in an escrow account for repairs, a number that's been estimated to possibly rise as high as $3 billion.
While for most of the PS's lifetime, Sony has made billions in profit. The PS3's development was very high in cost, so they've had problems and it came out late, though they're now making profits. Perhaps MS should not have rushed the 360 out as they've been accused of doing when the PS3 was pushed back. Perhaps it wouldn't have been defective.
But no other company would have continued the XBox other than MS, because no other company could have afforded to lose so much money on it. The point I'm making, which you haven't acknowledged, is that it's only MS's monopoly profits that have kept their entire entertainment division afloat, despite calls from investors for MS to drop it.
Do you really think that if the XBox cost 50% more than is has over the years, that it would have been bought by many of those who have been buying it?
Of course not. It would have failed as a product. The fact that the 360 is a good game machine (where the old XBox was just meh) wouldn't matter, because it would never have been produced. Any other company would have discontinued it long before that. Just like all the other game companies over the years that dropped out.
You can't present any good ideas in your posts, so you resort to insults, as PC people aslways seem to do.
Zune pass hasn't been even 1% as successful as Apple's iTunes, and you know it.
The Zune Pass is IN ADDITION to a regular service like iTunes. You don't HAVE to buy it, you can just buy tunes like you do on iTunes. I fail to see how that is bad, IT IS IN ADDITION. I have not met anyone except Apple people who think this is a bad service. But you don't have to buy it, you can CHOOSE to buy it, or you can use the iTunes model. More choice is better right?
For the articles you listed, it's all negative spin. You opted NOT to list any articles which put the 360 in a good light. And you failed to list ANY articles which shows that the 360 has made profits, which I'm pretty sure is not just an oversight on your part, since you seem pretty enlightened. Not sure what the 250gb model had to do with anything, you can CHOOSE to buy it if you want it. The ent. division is making money, it was close to $700M in 2008, 2009 is looking to be about 1/3 of that, but they are making money.
So, you are saying you should never compete if you have money, because you can try and fail alot and eventually get a good product? How about taking some stabs at the iTunes monopoly? It's so bizarre that is almost unreal.
And no, I'm not a PC guy, I got all tons of hardware. To be honest, I still mourn of the death of the Amiga. But at least I try to look at all types or hardware, and not judge things by who manufactures it, and let a product stand on it's own feet.
The PS3 has been a failure from a Sony standpoint, but they are also as stubborn as MS and refuses to cave in. You linked an old article where the xbox1 outsold the 360, yet, the PS2 STILL outsells the PS3. Failed to mention that too uh? Both Sony and MS are selling the console with losses. Is that bad? Hell no, I WANT many options. And the winner is the consumer.
Apple needs a good competitor in the pmp market, or else they can pretty much charge whatever the hell they want for their products. Or do you think that the iPod price drops had nothing to do with the fact that the Zune HD beat them on price?
I KNOW that the 360 dropped $100 in price because of the $299 PS3, so we all win.
/twospoons
The Zune Pass is IN ADDITION to a regular service like iTunes. You don't HAVE to buy it, you can just buy tunes like you do on iTunes. I fail to see how that is bad, IT IS IN ADDITION. I have not met anyone except Apple people who think this is a bad service. But you don't have to buy it, you can CHOOSE to buy it, or you can use the iTunes model. More choice is better right?
I have nothing against subscription services. If you were here for more than this argument, you would see all the posts in which I've said that.
But, subscription services, whether Zune Pass or any other are simply not popular.
In fact, several years ago Jobs was asked in an interview about subscriptions. He said that if enough customers wanted it, Apple would offer it.
So I'm not criticizing it, I'm simply telling the truth about it, it's not popular.
Why are Zune sales at 1% Can you answer that? And don't talk silly, and say Apple hype, because you know better.
For the articles you listed, it's all negative spin. You opted NOT to list any articles which put the 360 in a good light. And you failed to list ANY articles which shows that the 360 has made profits, which I'm pretty sure is not just an oversight on your part, since you seem pretty enlightened. Not sure what the 250gb model had to do with anything, you can CHOOSE to buy it if you want it. The ent. division is making money, it was close to $700M in 2008, 2009 is looking to be about 1/3 of that, but they are making money.
There has been a short time when the 360 looked as though it was making a profit, but the defects ended that possibility when MS set aside that $1.3 billion for repairs. If repair costs come anywhere near that sum, and reach another $3 billion as it's thought it might, what happens to those "profits"?
I did say that as a game machine it was good. I have nothing against it as a game machine. Do you skim what I say and only choose to read the bad parts?
So, you are saying you should never compete if you have money, because you can try and fail alot and eventually get a good product? How about taking some stabs at the iTunes monopoly? It's so bizarre that is almost unreal.
What I'm saying, as most in the industry have said, is that no other company would have kept the product line for so long, and would not have developed the 360 because of the large, continuing losses.
That's a childish remark about iTunes. Apple hasn't lost money on that, and actually makes a profit. But they've made billions in profits off the almost 250 million iPods they've sold.
How about taking some stabs at the Windows monopoly, It's so bizarre.
And no, I'm not a PC guy, I got all tons of hardware. To be honest, I still mourn of the death of the Amiga. But at least I try to look at all types or hardware, and not judge things by who manufactures it, and let a product stand on it's own feet.
You don't seem to be doing that.
The PS3 has been a failure from a Sony standpoint, but they are also as stubborn as MS and refuses to cave in. You linked an old article where the xbox1 outsold the 360, yet, the PS2 STILL outsells the PS3. Failed to mention that too uh? Both Sony and MS are selling the console with losses. Is that bad? Hell no, I WANT many options. And the winner is the consumer.
Yes, the PS3 has had problems, no doubt, as I've said to you. but they have also announced that the division is making a profit, so you believe whom you want to. But the PS3 is also credited with helping Sony win with Blu-Ray over Toshiba's HD DVD, which MS also backed. That will make Sony billions in profits over the years as well. What does MS have to show for its losses so far?
I didn't FAIL to mention it, the thrust of the conversation was the 360 over there.
But now that you brought it up, it I interesting that an old, almost obsolete system is running almost even in sales with MS's newest and best, isn't it? Between the two, the PS3 and the PS2, Sony is selling a lot more units than MS is. Happy you mentioned it. Thanks.
Well, the customer does have the option to buy the PS2. And let's not forget the Wii, which is beating the pants off both, and making a ton of money too.
Apple needs a good competitor in the pmp market, or else they can pretty much charge whatever the hell they want for their products. Or do you think that the iPod price drops had nothing to do with the fact that the Zune HD beat them on price?
I certainly agree with you here. Apple needs competitors to keep them on their toes. Sandisk is doing ok with over 7% of sales. We can wonder about that for a while.
If the Zune increased its sales by 400% that would be good. I don't know if it can happen, but if it did, it would move them past where they were shortly after they came out, which was 3.4% If it went higher, then maybe Apple would pay attention, but likely most sales won't come from them, it will come from the other players, as Sandisk's has. Apple's sales have been a steady 71 to 73%.
in addition, it now looks as though player sales are moving into smartphone sales. I think that's happening across the board. That is, every manufacturer is being affected. Apple's iPod sales are down a bit, but they still hold the same percentage of the market, which means that everyone is losing sales.
I KNOW that the 360 dropped $100 in price because of the $299 PS3, so we all win.
/twospoons
True, and the PS3 sales moved up a lot as a result. It's too early to see how both drops will affect the sales of the 360, but Wii sales have fallen as well, and so Nintendo will be giving it, I think a $50 price cut, as well.
No. It isn't a public beta. I never claimed it to be. It is a closed beta that I, unfortunately, am not participating in. I assure you that you are completely wrong on the features though. I would provide proof but I cannot for reasons beyond my control, so this argument is pointless. We shall see in the not too distant future how willingly ignorant you really are.
It DOES run Iphone apps. On an a makeshift emulator developed by two beta testers. Stop speaking on that which you know nothing about.
Still, we're all very impressed with a new poster who introduces himself by imperiously dismissing "fanboys" and proceeds to immediately embarrass himself with over the top mash notes to WinMo 7 and the glory of Microsoft's mobile strategy. Apple fans are merely pleased with the equipment they use every day; it takes a special kind of zealot to belittle everyone for failing to fall to their knees and worship the future.
But you know, whatever, I'm sure on the day that WinMo 7 is released all Apple customers will weep bitter tears and rend their garments at the terrible lesson they will be taught. On account of the awesomeness. At the very least you can assume that they're secretly doing so inside, regardless of what they claim.
Hey, I know, you can get together with that other Zune lunatic and start boldfacing every other phrase. Trust me, it makes your posts way more persuasive.
From the OLED Association:
Response to APPLE INSIDER Post on the Microsoft ZUNE
,
September 16, 2009
The “Apple Insider”: a Display Outsider or an Apple Shill?
http://www.oled-a.org/press_details.cfm?ID=32
This debunks only one of Prince Mclean's points, though others are equally inaccurate. It is written by the OLED Association.
I beg of you, please please please don't just read things like this and accept it as truth. This guy has ZERO citations. He smears truth with fallacies. It's just a mess. Just realize that anybody out there can type something up like this and sound like they know what they're talking about you've GOT to cross reference this stuff. Investigate it. It's your satisfaction with your product and your money at risk!
Apple makes beautiful, gorgeous, seamlessly integrated products. By all means, buy Apple products if that's what you love! But don't let people like this write libelous statements like this without calling him out and putting up a fight. I was so compelled by this article that I joined Apple Insider to comment.
You have to ask yourself why a site like this would have to tear down a competing product. If the Zune HD was really such a crappy product, then just let it fail by itself. I think this brings to light the writer's ulterior motives. He hates Microsoft and he hates Zune SO he dug up as much dirt as he could find and then threw in some blatant lies. Facts first, people, THEN start making conclusions. The truth is, the Zune HD is an *extremely* viable alternative to an Apple PMP (if a PMP is what you're looking for). Look into it. Play with one at Best Buy. Explore your options.
Don't be a sheep!
For those who haven't seen this yet, enjoy!
From the OLED Association:
Response to APPLE INSIDER Post on the Microsoft ZUNE
,
September 16, 2009
The “Apple Insider”: a Display Outsider or an Apple Shill?
On Monday, Prince McLean released a blog post titled “From OLED to Tegra: Five Myths of the Zune HD.” I won’t comment about the other 4 Myths but his comments about OLEDs demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge regarding the performance, specifications and use of flat panel displays. He makes several erroneous statements about OLEDS, including:
First OLED myth: “OLEDs are dimmer that LCDs because the luminance is only 200 cd/m2, while LCDs have luminance of 400-500 cd/m2.” LCDs TVs have luminance of 4-500 cd/m2, but displays on mobile devices is typically 200 to 250 cd/m2. The display on the Zune is spec’d at 250 cd/m2 before the addition of the touch features. Moreover, it has been demonstrated by Samsung, a TFT LCD supplier, that OLEDs at 250 cd/m2 have the same perceived brightness at TFT LCDs at 400 cd/m2.
Second OLED myth: “A good quality LCD actually uses ambient light to make its image brighter and more vibrant; OLED does not.” Mobile devices often use transflective LCDs, which operate in two modes, (1) a reflective mode in which the backlight if off and (2) a transmissive mode, in which the backlight is on. Both modes are compromises but serve the market well. OLEDs, which are emissive devices, use higher luminance to overcome the effect of high ambient conditions. Again, Samsung reports that OLEDs at 300 cd/m2 will outperform any transflective LCD is bright sunlight.
Third OLED myth: “There are other problems with OLED. They don't last long, because the electroluminescence layer degrades far more rapidly than regular LCDs.” The OLED display in the Zune has a lifetime of 50,000 hours. Typically LCDs for mobile products are rated at ~25,000. However, none of this is very important – These types of products have a useful life of 5-years, which at 8 hours/day and 365 days a year is only 15,000 hours; well within the capability of either technology.
Fourth OLED myth: “And despite the power savings attributed to OLED's backlight-free design, OLEDs still use more power than LCD displays most of the time because the OLED technology consumes power based on how bright the image it is displaying is. Essentially, OLED is the backlight”. It has been demonstrated and documented by Nokia that when the application is video or imaging, OLEDs use less than ½ the power of a comparable TFT LCD. McLean’s comment that the OLED is a backlight just demonstrates his lack of knowledge about displays. Emissive displays (OLEDs, PDPs) do not require backlights as they emit light without the need for an external source of light. If the image is black, i.e. the UI for the Apple iPod or the iPhone, an OLED uses almost no power, while the LCD uses maximum power under all conditions. The situation is so bad that LCD TVs are being designed with 100s of LEDs at high cost to implement local dimming to reduce power consumption.
Some questions remain:
1. Why would Microsoft choose an OLED for its Zune? Could it be that OLEDs are
· Thinner and Lighter – The display is only 1 mm thick
· Faster – The response time is 5 µsec compared with 5 msec for the best LCDs. There is no blurring or shadowing on the fastest images
· Better in color gamut – OLEDs operate at >100% of the NTSC standard, while LCDs for small displays operate at <100% of NTSC
· 1000x better than the contrast of LCDs – Most films, TV and camera images operate at an average of ~20% of saturated colors, i.e. relatively dark, so contrast ratio as defined by black levels is significant for viewing purposes. In bright sunlight reflective devices only produce <15% contrast ratio.
· More efficient – ~50% of the power for the applications used on the Zune and the iPod.
· Virtually perfect image reproducers at wide viewing angle – while LCDs could lose up to 90% of their contrast ratio
2. Why would Microsoft choose a dark environment to demonstrate the OLED? Because it looks so good!
3. Why would Prince McLean write about something that he obviously has so little knowledge? Could it be that the Apple Insider is trying to curry favor with the Apple management so it can become an even deeper shill? It has become a popular art to predict what Apple is going to do and the company is very careful to keep its information on new products, closely held, so McLean may be hoping to get better access. I did not comment about the “Other Myths” in McLean’s article but if they are anything like his comments about OLEDs, you can draw your own conclusions about their relevance.
Finally, I wonder how McLean would respond to the quote by Steve Jobs, when his display technologists showed him OLED displays for the first time, “that’s the best f----n display I have ever seen.”
Like everything else, some of the information you presented is correct, and some is not.
Why would you consider the OLED Association anything more than a shill for the OLED manufacturers who make up its membership?
Are they any less of a shill than AI? Highly doubtful, after all while the OLED Association is totally dependent on the LED manufacturers that pay for the salaries of the people working there, including whomever wrote the unlinked to response, AI has no direct relationship with Apple, or any other company.
The purpose of the Association is to Promote the use of LEDS, and therefor the sales and profits of its members.
They have no ax to grind. Indeed not.
Do you think that these LED manufacturers would want people to know that their products do have some problems? Hmmm. That's a tough one.
For those who haven't seen this yet, enjoy!
From the OLED Association:
Response to APPLE INSIDER Post on the Microsoft ZUNE
....
Copying and pasting entire articles is bad form. Is there a reason why you couldn't just provide a link to the article and a quick summary?