>First of all, I think you blew your whole argument by starting with the word Moron...<
I call em as I see em.
>I have never stated that Arab-israelis don't have the right to vote... But I have a hard time dealing with how easy it is to become a jewish citizen of Isreal (many russian immigrants haven't practiced judaism for generations). While it is virtualy impossible to become an arab citizen of Isreal. (No immigrants accepted here)... In my fantasy world a refugee of war should be admitted back to his home before it is given to some random guy who just moved in from Russia.>
You expect Israel to allow their enemies to become a citizen? How many Taliban are we inviting in to become Americans? Come on, please get serious.
>2nd) are you saying that because most arab states have corrupt non-democratic governments who treat jews (amongst others) miserably, it gives the [Democracy] Isreal any right to treat arabs as secondary citizens? <
I'm saying that Arab Israelis are treated MUCH better than any Arab anywhere. They know it also, which is why they are still Israeli. They can move any where they want, you know. Ever wonder why they stay under Israeli rule? Because they live better there than ANYWHERE in the Middle East. In fact Arab Israelis were interviewed a while back about whether they would move to a newly created Palestinian state. Almost all of them said they would stay right where they are in Israel-interesting, huh?
>3rd) are you saying that most of the right wing isreali voters are arab-jews? I would like to see those statistics, please.<
Perhaps most aren't, but they are the ones who popularized the notion to settle in Palestinian areas. The European Jews who fist settled in Israel would never have agreed to it without the impetus of Arab Jews.
>4th) Why would the refugees go to live in Gaza (probably the worst place to live in the middel-east, already packed with refugee camps), when this is not were they fled from?<
How do you know where they fled from? Gaza was part of occupied Palestine(Palestine has ALWAYS been occupied by one country or another).
>5th) The original zionist concept of the State of Isreal stretched well into Jordan and Egypt. Don't tell me that the land confiscation has nothing to do with the expanding of the State of Isreal. Many isreli hardliners consider it their godgiven right to build settlements. And Isreal has NEVER offered to abandon all of these.<
Incorrect, the original zionists would have settled for the strip of land Israel was given by the UN. After winning all the wars with the Arabs they could have easily forced all the Arabs out of the West Bank and into Jordan. They didn't, did they? Menachim Begin, a virulent zionist, gave back the Sinai to Egypt in exchange for peace, didn't he? The settlements were a combination of ultra right wing appeasement by the Israeli government and the Israeli realization that the Palestinians would never accept Israel's right to exist. Rabin, and even more so Barak, offered to dismantle the settlements for a just peace.
>Remember we are only talking about land settled after 1967 here, when Isreal occupied the last of the palestinian territories... So these are settlements built after 1967. Get it?
Did you read anything since your last post? <
Israel never would have occupied the last of these territories if they weren't attacked or about to be attacked. Israel offered to give the territories to Jordan, but Jordan refused. That would have been your Palestinian state right there, wouldn't it? However, Israel would still have existed and the Arabs couldn't accept that at the time. Like I said, you reap what you sow............................................... ....
Comments
I call em as I see em.
>I have never stated that Arab-israelis don't have the right to vote... But I have a hard time dealing with how easy it is to become a jewish citizen of Isreal (many russian immigrants haven't practiced judaism for generations). While it is virtualy impossible to become an arab citizen of Isreal. (No immigrants accepted here)... In my fantasy world a refugee of war should be admitted back to his home before it is given to some random guy who just moved in from Russia.>
You expect Israel to allow their enemies to become a citizen? How many Taliban are we inviting in to become Americans? Come on, please get serious.
>2nd) are you saying that because most arab states have corrupt non-democratic governments who treat jews (amongst others) miserably, it gives the [Democracy] Isreal any right to treat arabs as secondary citizens? <
I'm saying that Arab Israelis are treated MUCH better than any Arab anywhere. They know it also, which is why they are still Israeli. They can move any where they want, you know. Ever wonder why they stay under Israeli rule? Because they live better there than ANYWHERE in the Middle East. In fact Arab Israelis were interviewed a while back about whether they would move to a newly created Palestinian state. Almost all of them said they would stay right where they are in Israel-interesting, huh?
>3rd) are you saying that most of the right wing isreali voters are arab-jews? I would like to see those statistics, please.<
Perhaps most aren't, but they are the ones who popularized the notion to settle in Palestinian areas. The European Jews who fist settled in Israel would never have agreed to it without the impetus of Arab Jews.
>4th) Why would the refugees go to live in Gaza (probably the worst place to live in the middel-east, already packed with refugee camps), when this is not were they fled from?<
How do you know where they fled from? Gaza was part of occupied Palestine(Palestine has ALWAYS been occupied by one country or another).
>5th) The original zionist concept of the State of Isreal stretched well into Jordan and Egypt. Don't tell me that the land confiscation has nothing to do with the expanding of the State of Isreal. Many isreli hardliners consider it their godgiven right to build settlements. And Isreal has NEVER offered to abandon all of these.<
Incorrect, the original zionists would have settled for the strip of land Israel was given by the UN. After winning all the wars with the Arabs they could have easily forced all the Arabs out of the West Bank and into Jordan. They didn't, did they? Menachim Begin, a virulent zionist, gave back the Sinai to Egypt in exchange for peace, didn't he? The settlements were a combination of ultra right wing appeasement by the Israeli government and the Israeli realization that the Palestinians would never accept Israel's right to exist. Rabin, and even more so Barak, offered to dismantle the settlements for a just peace.
>Remember we are only talking about land settled after 1967 here, when Isreal occupied the last of the palestinian territories... So these are settlements built after 1967. Get it?
Did you read anything since your last post? <
Israel never would have occupied the last of these territories if they weren't attacked or about to be attacked. Israel offered to give the territories to Jordan, but Jordan refused. That would have been your Palestinian state right there, wouldn't it? However, Israel would still have existed and the Arabs couldn't accept that at the time. Like I said, you reap what you sow............................................... ....