Well, if it is related to upgrade installs, then the delay in major reporting isn't unexpected. The early adopters of Snow Leopard are probably on average more tech savvy and more likely to do a clean install which would avoid this problem. I believe Snow Leopard now defaults to upgrade and clean install is hidden, so as more people switch and just use the default upgrade install, more cases would crop up. If Apple is pointing everyone to use an upgrade install, they should have more thoroughly tested the common cases, which having a Guest account would seem to be.
Upgrade has always been the default installation for OSX, and the one I'd suspect is done by well over 90% of users. The "clean install" is mythical really, since no such option actually exists. If we're talking about "erase and install" this is a full geek option, not to be taken lightly or used routinely.
Anyway, this bug appears to be isolated. It's apparently not reproducible. Not that this is good, or makes it any easier to find, but it certainly does not seem to afflict many people.
Given that there are a significant amount of people with the Time Capsule failure issue as well though it would certainly suck to be in the group that overlaps with this issue. The Time Capsule failure has eliminated my backups without warning, if I also had guest users enabled under Leopard (which I did at one point), I would be in the position of losing everything even though I would be following all Apple advice and using all their latest software and hardware.
Personally, I think this is just one more indication of how over-stretched Apple is right now and how they really need to beef up their QC efforts to match the beefed up sales they've been enjoying.
I liked it better when Apple was a small company that no one else I knew had heard of.
Basically, during the install phase, it ran a script to delete the old version but a bug in the script caused it to erase some mounted hard drives depending on the name of the drive.
Yes.. and this issue mysteriously just surfaced more than one month after Snow Leopard release. I follow few Apple centric websites and this is the first time I've heard about it!
I read about isolated cases of this happening in Leopard, too. A bad bug that needs quashing!
Well, if it is related to upgrade installs, then the delay in major reporting isn't unexpected. The early adopters of Snow Leopard are probably on average more tech savvy and more likely to do a clean install which would avoid this problem. I believe Snow Leopard now defaults to upgrade and clean install is hidden, so as more people switch and just use the default upgrade install, more cases would crop up. If Apple is pointing everyone to use an upgrade install, they should have more thoroughly tested the common cases, which having a Guest account would seem to be.
Well. I don't recall knowing any average user who enables guest account. I always tell my average PC/Mac users family and friends to never mess with the guest account for security reasons. Furthermore, more than 3 millions bought SL within the first week or so and it doesn't make sense that just now these reports started popping up. I am not say the issue does not exist, I am saying the reports are over exaggerated because of yesterday report about MS/Danger data loss.
Personally this is my 2nd Mac (MBP) and I did an upgrade from Leopard, which was upgraded from Tiger on my iMac before migrating to my current MBP, without any problems what so ever. However, I've seen how other people use their PCs and Macs and I am not surprised that some are having issues during upgrades. But seriously, anyone who upgrade his/her OS without backing up first is to blame for any loss of data.
Well. I don't recall knowing any average user who enables guest account. I always tell my average PC/Mac users family and friends to never mess with the guest account for security reasons.
There are security reasons why you should use the Guest account for family and friends.
I have people over to my house all the time. They may want to "just check email" or "get map directions" etc... If they're in my account, well, then they have access to everything...not good.
One option is to set up an account specific to them, but that requires a bit of setup that could be awkward..."I don't trust you, so let me set up an account for you". It's a lot easier to just tell them to log in as Guest...and it may be easier for them too, because they may not have to log out of whatever your browser was logged into first.
I have one Mac that any number of people who come to visit may want to use...sometimes when I'm not there. Thus, setting up individual accounts isn't really an option.
The bigger issue, and reason for setting up a Guest account is that you're also protecting the guest. When the guest logs out, everything is wiped. This means they don't have to worry about you having access to anything, or another guest having access.
In a reception area in an office, this is a big deal too. You can set Guest to log-out after a time period, and not worry about their info being accessed if they forgot to log out of email or whatever.
The Guest account is a very useful feature...although not nearly as useful as Time Machine
There are security reasons why you should use the Guest account for family and friends.
...
The Guest account is a very useful feature...although not nearly as useful as Time Machine
Agreed — on both counts. I too have a Guest account enabled, and for exactly the same reasons as you. However I doubt that many people do. In my observation the average Mac user seems to be largely unaware of the multi-user option or how/why to use it. That may explain why this bug, assuming it exists as described, isn't an epidemic.
Back in Leopard I had a similar thing happen. I switched accounts and when I came back my user account was done. After a log out or restart it was all back where it was before, but it did have the appearance of being gone for a moment. I recall it being a bit unsettling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
Well. I don't recall knowing any average user who enables guest account. I always tell my average PC/Mac users family and friends to never mess with the guest account for security reasons.
I agree with the other posters. Instead of having my Admin or user account accessible to people from a lack of password protecting or from logging in so they can use my machine, I have the guest account setup for friends/family as a secure option for guests.
Well don't hold your breath, they rarely acknowledge anything. Even when they do, the Genius Bar will feign ignorance.
Sorry for the rant, but I just took my wife's MacBook in to the SoHo store in NYC, it has the flickering screen issue (for the 3rd time) and a cracked case (where the magnets connect). BOTH are well known and documented issues. Their diagnosis? It is 'accidental damage' and they're looking to charge $300+ to fix both, plus taxes.
I've got the MacBooks (a pair of them), ATV, 3GS, $3000+ on iTunes since 2005... this loyalty thing only seems to work one way. I am very frustrated and falling out of love rapidly.
I simply use my default account and don't require a password to log in. I was going to set that up and give my family their own to log in, but now I'll hold off a bit for fear this bug will surface.
As soon as I saw this issue I backed-up via TimeMachine. I don't have a TimeCapsule (I hear there's issues with those) so my MacBook isn't wirelessly tethered to my external hard disk. I take weekly backups at best which is good enough for me.
Yes.. and this issue mysteriously just surfaced more than one month after Snow Leopard release. I follow few Apple centric websites and this is the first time I've heard about it!
I simply use my default account and don't require a password to log in. I was going to set that up and give my family their own to log in, but now I'll hold off a bit for fear this bug will surface.
As soon as I saw this issue I backed-up via TimeMachine. I don't have a TimeCapsule (I hear there's issues with those) so my MacBook isn't wirelessly tethered to my external hard disk. I take weekly backups at best which is good enough for me.
I?d imagine if it?s not yet, it will be by the time 10.6.2 gets finalized. But none of that should affect you. You?ve got a TM back up and you setting it up after the installation of SL. At any rate, you can password protect your admin account and just create a non-admin account with no password that you deem the guest account. Even use parental controls to limit what it can do.
I simply use my default account and don't require a password to log in. I was going to set that up and give my family their own to log in, but now I'll hold off a bit for fear this bug will surface.
As soon as I saw this issue I backed-up via TimeMachine. I don't have a TimeCapsule (I hear there's issues with those) so my MacBook isn't wirelessly tethered to my external hard disk. I take weekly backups at best which is good enough for me.
Time Capsule is fine, but if you already have a wireless-n router and only one Mac, you'd do just as well to buy an external drive for Time Machine. But If you need a wireless-n router and have more than one Mac, Time Capsule is a very nice solution.
Maybe someone can explain the advantage of using the guest account feature over creating a non-adminstrator's account manually. Off hand, I don't see it.
Time Capsule is fine, but if you already have a wireless-n router and only one Mac, you'd do just as well to buy an external drive for Time Machine. But If you need a wireless-n router and have more than one Mac, Time Capsule is a very nice solution.
Maybe someone can explain the advantage of using the guest account feature over creating a non-adminstrator's account manually. Off hand, I don't see it.
The Guest account deletes all files and history when it's logged off. This makes is convenient for places like libraries. A non admin account doesn't.
Most people also run as an Admin, which I suggest against for that added level of security.
Are you referring to main or guest accounts here? I thought admin privileges allow to install new apps. I'm interested in hearing about that added level of security.
I use a guest account and am in agreement with the guys about it's benefits. I'm a little anal about people using my computer anyway, so I'll just let them do what they need to on the guest account. Seeing what other people have google searched while on my macbook has gotten me into trouble just a few times
To add to the main topic, if the average user isn't smart enough to do a clean install, who's to say they'd even have an external drive, know about back ups or use time machine? I don't have an external hard drive (just backing data up onto my old PC and iDisk)...
Comments
Well, if it is related to upgrade installs, then the delay in major reporting isn't unexpected. The early adopters of Snow Leopard are probably on average more tech savvy and more likely to do a clean install which would avoid this problem. I believe Snow Leopard now defaults to upgrade and clean install is hidden, so as more people switch and just use the default upgrade install, more cases would crop up. If Apple is pointing everyone to use an upgrade install, they should have more thoroughly tested the common cases, which having a Guest account would seem to be.
Upgrade has always been the default installation for OSX, and the one I'd suspect is done by well over 90% of users. The "clean install" is mythical really, since no such option actually exists. If we're talking about "erase and install" this is a full geek option, not to be taken lightly or used routinely.
Anyway, this bug appears to be isolated. It's apparently not reproducible. Not that this is good, or makes it any easier to find, but it certainly does not seem to afflict many people.
Has anyone had this problem on this forum?
Won't believe any of it until apple acknowledges it
Indeed.
Given that there are a significant amount of people with the Time Capsule failure issue as well though it would certainly suck to be in the group that overlaps with this issue. The Time Capsule failure has eliminated my backups without warning, if I also had guest users enabled under Leopard (which I did at one point), I would be in the position of losing everything even though I would be following all Apple advice and using all their latest software and hardware.
Personally, I think this is just one more indication of how over-stretched Apple is right now and how they really need to beef up their QC efforts to match the beefed up sales they've been enjoying.
I liked it better when Apple was a small company that no one else I knew had heard of.
Yeah the good old days.
No what Happened?
Basically, during the install phase, it ran a script to delete the old version but a bug in the script caused it to erase some mounted hard drives depending on the name of the drive.
More info here (wow that was back in 2001!!!
Yes.. and this issue mysteriously just surfaced more than one month after Snow Leopard release. I follow few Apple centric websites and this is the first time I've heard about it!
I read about isolated cases of this happening in Leopard, too. A bad bug that needs quashing!
Well, if it is related to upgrade installs, then the delay in major reporting isn't unexpected. The early adopters of Snow Leopard are probably on average more tech savvy and more likely to do a clean install which would avoid this problem. I believe Snow Leopard now defaults to upgrade and clean install is hidden, so as more people switch and just use the default upgrade install, more cases would crop up. If Apple is pointing everyone to use an upgrade install, they should have more thoroughly tested the common cases, which having a Guest account would seem to be.
Well. I don't recall knowing any average user who enables guest account. I always tell my average PC/Mac users family and friends to never mess with the guest account for security reasons. Furthermore, more than 3 millions bought SL within the first week or so and it doesn't make sense that just now these reports started popping up. I am not say the issue does not exist, I am saying the reports are over exaggerated because of yesterday report about MS/Danger data loss.
Personally this is my 2nd Mac (MBP) and I did an upgrade from Leopard, which was upgraded from Tiger on my iMac before migrating to my current MBP, without any problems what so ever. However, I've seen how other people use their PCs and Macs and I am not surprised that some are having issues during upgrades. But seriously, anyone who upgrade his/her OS without backing up first is to blame for any loss of data.
I'm a mac, and I delete everything you care about
I'm a PC - whoa wait... you did what?
Well. I don't recall knowing any average user who enables guest account. I always tell my average PC/Mac users family and friends to never mess with the guest account for security reasons.
There are security reasons why you should use the Guest account for family and friends.
I have people over to my house all the time. They may want to "just check email" or "get map directions" etc... If they're in my account, well, then they have access to everything...not good.
One option is to set up an account specific to them, but that requires a bit of setup that could be awkward..."I don't trust you, so let me set up an account for you". It's a lot easier to just tell them to log in as Guest...and it may be easier for them too, because they may not have to log out of whatever your browser was logged into first.
I have one Mac that any number of people who come to visit may want to use...sometimes when I'm not there. Thus, setting up individual accounts isn't really an option.
The bigger issue, and reason for setting up a Guest account is that you're also protecting the guest. When the guest logs out, everything is wiped. This means they don't have to worry about you having access to anything, or another guest having access.
In a reception area in an office, this is a big deal too. You can set Guest to log-out after a time period, and not worry about their info being accessed if they forgot to log out of email or whatever.
The Guest account is a very useful feature...although not nearly as useful as Time Machine
There are security reasons why you should use the Guest account for family and friends.
...
The Guest account is a very useful feature...although not nearly as useful as Time Machine
Agreed — on both counts. I too have a Guest account enabled, and for exactly the same reasons as you. However I doubt that many people do. In my observation the average Mac user seems to be largely unaware of the multi-user option or how/why to use it. That may explain why this bug, assuming it exists as described, isn't an epidemic.
Well. I don't recall knowing any average user who enables guest account. I always tell my average PC/Mac users family and friends to never mess with the guest account for security reasons.
I agree with the other posters. Instead of having my Admin or user account accessible to people from a lack of password protecting or from logging in so they can use my machine, I have the guest account setup for friends/family as a secure option for guests.
Agreed ? on both counts. I too have a Guest account enabled, and for exactly the same reasons as you. However I doubt that many people do.
Most people also run as an Admin, which I suggest against for that added level of security.
Yeah I never ever used that in the 7 years I owned a Mac.
The guest account feature is actually pretty sweet. All the Mac's at the Apple store are running it.
What's cool: Whatever you do, web, email, apps, etc... is DELETED when you log out.
Imagine the usefulness of this when you run a School, Web Cafe, or just want to do something online without the spouse ever knowing
Apple has yet to publicly acknowledge the issue.
Well don't hold your breath, they rarely acknowledge anything. Even when they do, the Genius Bar will feign ignorance.
Sorry for the rant, but I just took my wife's MacBook in to the SoHo store in NYC, it has the flickering screen issue (for the 3rd time) and a cracked case (where the magnets connect). BOTH are well known and documented issues. Their diagnosis? It is 'accidental damage' and they're looking to charge $300+ to fix both, plus taxes.
I've got the MacBooks (a pair of them), ATV, 3GS, $3000+ on iTunes since 2005... this loyalty thing only seems to work one way. I am very frustrated and falling out of love rapidly.
I simply use my default account and don't require a password to log in. I was going to set that up and give my family their own to log in, but now I'll hold off a bit for fear this bug will surface.
As soon as I saw this issue I backed-up via TimeMachine. I don't have a TimeCapsule (I hear there's issues with those) so my MacBook isn't wirelessly tethered to my external hard disk. I take weekly backups at best which is good enough for me.
Yes.. and this issue mysteriously just surfaced more than one month after Snow Leopard release. I follow few Apple centric websites and this is the first time I've heard about it!
cnet reported it as early as Sept 08, 2009
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10346974-263.htmll
I wouldn't look to Time Capsule for a sure back up solution.
Ars Technica is reporting Time Capsule Failures in a new story today.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...l-cemetery.ars
Just not a good day for Apple Fans.
I read the story first in the New York Times and just saw a CNN report on TV regarding this issue and the Side Kick.
I don't think even Apple can brush this under the carpet as they normally would.
Is this bug addressed in 10.6.2?
I simply use my default account and don't require a password to log in. I was going to set that up and give my family their own to log in, but now I'll hold off a bit for fear this bug will surface.
As soon as I saw this issue I backed-up via TimeMachine. I don't have a TimeCapsule (I hear there's issues with those) so my MacBook isn't wirelessly tethered to my external hard disk. I take weekly backups at best which is good enough for me.
I?d imagine if it?s not yet, it will be by the time 10.6.2 gets finalized. But none of that should affect you. You?ve got a TM back up and you setting it up after the installation of SL. At any rate, you can password protect your admin account and just create a non-admin account with no password that you deem the guest account. Even use parental controls to limit what it can do.
Use Time Machine? That might be good advice.
Indeed. Assuming your Time Capsule hasn't reached its 18 month failure milestone.
Is this bug addressed in 10.6.2?
I simply use my default account and don't require a password to log in. I was going to set that up and give my family their own to log in, but now I'll hold off a bit for fear this bug will surface.
As soon as I saw this issue I backed-up via TimeMachine. I don't have a TimeCapsule (I hear there's issues with those) so my MacBook isn't wirelessly tethered to my external hard disk. I take weekly backups at best which is good enough for me.
Time Capsule is fine, but if you already have a wireless-n router and only one Mac, you'd do just as well to buy an external drive for Time Machine. But If you need a wireless-n router and have more than one Mac, Time Capsule is a very nice solution.
Maybe someone can explain the advantage of using the guest account feature over creating a non-adminstrator's account manually. Off hand, I don't see it.
Time Capsule is fine, but if you already have a wireless-n router and only one Mac, you'd do just as well to buy an external drive for Time Machine. But If you need a wireless-n router and have more than one Mac, Time Capsule is a very nice solution.
Maybe someone can explain the advantage of using the guest account feature over creating a non-adminstrator's account manually. Off hand, I don't see it.
The Guest account deletes all files and history when it's logged off. This makes is convenient for places like libraries. A non admin account doesn't.
Most people also run as an Admin, which I suggest against for that added level of security.
Are you referring to main or guest accounts here? I thought admin privileges allow to install new apps. I'm interested in hearing about that added level of security.
I use a guest account and am in agreement with the guys about it's benefits. I'm a little anal about people using my computer anyway, so I'll just let them do what they need to on the guest account. Seeing what other people have google searched while on my macbook has gotten me into trouble just a few times
To add to the main topic, if the average user isn't smart enough to do a clean install, who's to say they'd even have an external drive, know about back ups or use time machine? I don't have an external hard drive (just backing data up onto my old PC and iDisk)...