Well, my point was that it could be argued that it is theft of services, but that jailbreaking doesn't have illegal activity as it's motivation, even if there may be incidental activities that it could enable that might be at least somewhat gray. However, whatever the motivations, I think the prospect that the relatively small number of jailbreakers on AT&T's network are somehow sucking the bandwidth out of it, is unlikely in the extreme. I think it's generally a harmless activity that has positives and negatives for the user.
It's not entirely clear to me what Apple's motivation for putting serious effort into stopping it is. I think most users are deterred simply by the prospect of voiding their warranty and there are certainly not large numbers (relative to the total of iPhone owners) of people doing this. It could be pressure from AT&T to preserve their exclusivity and prevent tethering. It could be security concerns re corporate acceptance or worries about bad publicity. It could be that they just want to keep the reins on the user experience (although, it would surprise me if this were their primary motivation since the numbers jailbreaking are relatively small). Or, it could be some combination of all of the above.
I would agree with most of your reasons.
1) Pressure from AT&T. Yes, just as with iTunes, Apple has agreements in place to restrict certain functionality. A closed systems allows them some control here
2) Corporate security concerns. Not so sure on this one. If it is a company issued device, then a simply policy not to jailbreak it should be enough. Jailbreaking it is not worth your job. If it is for personal devices, they have the same concerns about personal laptops and other devices. Either the ban them or allow them. I wouldn't see jailbreaking as being much of a concernhere.
3)Control the entire user experience. makes sense. They have been successful here, but they need to remember that too many restrictions will never go over well.
I think theft of software is an actual concern. Even more important to the success of the AppStore than it being a closed ecosystem is that developers have taken to it so well and many of the apps are still iPhone exclusives. If developers feel that their software is just going to be ripped off as soon as it hits the app store, then they will at the least develop for other platforms as well, making those stores more robust and successful. Also, everytime a legit app is cracked and stolen, that is money directly out of Apple pocket.
Having said that it doesn't seem like running cracked software is all that popular yet. I certainly don't know anyone that has done it...anyone I have spoken with that has ever jailbroken has only used it to install software released for jailbroken phones, not AppStore apps that have been cracked.
I tell you what is theft too : my carrier does give a fiddlers if I tether or don't. I purchased a LEGAL UNLOCKED phone as per the laws in Belgium. Up until FW 3.0 I could install a mobileconfig myself and tether as I see fit.
Now I can't (if I were to go onto 3.1)., because Apple only delivers the ipcc profiles for its OFFICIAL carriers. You call Aplle here they refer you to their official carrier who in turn tells you to Foxtrot-Oscar (and who in turn does NOT like tethering on the Iphone although his dataplans iPhone and Nokia phones are identical - so go figure...)
Now I paid 615 ? for my iPhone (go figure how much that is in $) and if I upgrade to 3.1 I lose a vital facility.
Sounds like a legitimate complaint. Perhaps you should lobby for a change to the law that would require handset manufacturers to provide ipcc profiles for any permitted carrier (i.e., official and any others, as permitted by the nature of the law). In the meantime, it certainly seems like a good reason to jailbreak.
I think theft of software is an actual concern. Even more important to the success of the AppStore than it being a closed ecosystem is that developers have taken to it so well and many of the apps are still iPhone exclusives. If developers feel that their software is just going to be ripped off as soon as it hits the app store, then they will at the least develop for other platforms as well, making those stores more robust and successful. Also, everytime a legit app is cracked and stolen, that is money directly out of Apple pocket.
Having said that it doesn't seem like running cracked software is all that popular yet.
Well, I think the security concern would be, as I believe someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, the perception that the iPhone is easily hackable. In other words, perhaps Apple tries to prevent jailbreaking at least partly not because it opens up the phone per se, but simply to eliminate the perception that it's easy to do so.
The software theft issue may actually be a consideration from the standpoint of developer perception, so perhaps it's more targeted toward that than anyone actually engaged in the same. It does give anyone who has ever released software, and knows that a large number of people used it without paying, a warm feeling to think that anyone using their software has paid for it.
The jailbreaker mentality isn't really that peculiar. It's a combination of narcissism and sociopathy compounded by the self-esteem drivel (celebrate me even if I did nothing worth celebrating) that the US educational system has foisted on two generations of Americans.
The narcissism makes it easy for them to justify what they're doing on the grounds that either they're smarter than most folks so they have more rights and privileges, or what they're doing is so cool and ingenious so we should all let them do it and marvel in awe at their feat, and not complain about how that is inconveniencing us. "We are the cool, special people so you should be celebrating us not berating us."
The sociopathy is evident in the self-centeredness that is exhibited when they claim they can use up as much bandwidth as they can, conveniently ignoring the fact that there are resource limits to any wireless network and that everyone else is penalized when too many subscribers become bandwidth hogs. The amazing thing is that when finally AT&T has to take action to manage bandwidth congestion, these same folks will howl the loudest if bandwidth metering beyond a certain threshhold is put in. They'll still be allowed to use as much bandwidth as they want mind you, they'll just have to pay for its real cost now instead of freeloading on us poor saps.
They really are no different from the guy who installs a gazillion watt stereo in his car, turns it up to bone-rattling levels, then drives down the street 'sharing' his pacemaker-jamming bass rhythms with us regular motorists. Not giving a care at all that what he is doing is extremely rude, annoying, self-centered, and antisocial. And on top of that getting all indignant about his freedoms being curtailed when a policeman issues him a citation.
Jailbreakers like to use specious arguments like the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
Tethering is just passing your data through one device to another. I paid for that data. To use as I see fit. It is only theft if I am using something that i did not pay for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtwwg
Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27
For many, jailbreaking gives them the features or abilities that they don't have due to Apple's tight hand.
No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.
Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
For most people, both those creating the JB tools and those JBing their iPhones, it has nothing to do with theft. It is about being able to runs apps that are not otherwise available and being able to use functionality that is not available but should be.
People used it for things like tethering, MMS, modified home screens, etc. It had little to do with theft. But, theft is now becoming an issue because the same tools that allow legitimate modifications can also be used to install and run paid software without paying.
Apple can continue to invest heavily in resources to prevent this. Alternatively, they could loosen the restrictions that drive the majority of people to even try jailbreaking. Allowing an alternative to the AppStore would be one way. If users could get their software elsewhere that Apple chooses not to carry, then the userbase that is uses the JB tools would shrink massively. Fewer people seeking to jailbreak would result in fewer people working on jailbreaking.
With all the apps that are available and more being created every day, I have to think the driving force for jailbreaking is theft, pure and simple. Anytime you try to get an app for free that everyone else is paying for ... that's theft .... and no matter how many "legitimate" excuses you come up with to justify it .... it's still theft.
You are not a "technical user". You are not a "technical" anything. What you are is someone who wants what they want, and doesn't care about being realistic, or even reasonable. You're also completely out of line describing "what jailbreaking is for". That's about as legitimate as saying P2P file sharing is for uploading your purchased CDs so that others can preview the music before purchasing it themselves. Thats hilarious. Maybe 2% will do that. The other 98% are there to steal and hog. So whatever necessary icon changing you may feel is your right, you've completely misunderstood what it means to have a device that you "own" and "may use as you wish."
It sounds to me like the opposite of your "facts." That maybe 2% of jailbreakers steal apps from the app store. The rest just want to run cydia and mostly free, non-authorized apps. Meaning they want to run stuff Apple has not, or will not approve. For example, video on the 3G. How does that make it stealing? Shitty quality, but not theft of anything. People who jailbreak buy apps, whether from the App store or a 3rd party Apple hasn't allowed to sell in the App Store.
I haven't personally found the need to do it, but I equate the need with the likes of a computer. If I was blocked from running Firefox on my MBP, because Apple said it would duplicate Safari, I'd find a way to break the software lock, too. Good luck guys, I'm sure the dev team will figure out another exploit.
You are comparing allowing clones to run the OS (it was Amelio) to Apple allowing alternative sources for apps?
Ok. Conversation done. No further point.
Yes there are similarities. It's about having tight control of everything from software to hardware. It allows Apple to push the boundaries, it's what differentiates them from linux, windows, and now android.
And if you cant see that, your are finally correct in that there is no further point in this conversation.
With all the apps that are available and more being created every day, I have to think the driving force for jailbreaking is theft, pure and simple. Anytime you try to get an app for free that everyone else is paying for ... that's theft .... and no matter how many "legitimate" excuses you come up with to justify it .... it's still theft.
a lot of the UI changes people make by jailbreaking aren't available via apps. and some people want to listen to pandora while typing an email or surfing the web
Which os why the comment is bullocks. I use tethering on my iPhone an rack up a solid 25GB/month without jailbreaking. I can't update to 3.1 or I lose that feature and will have to resort to jailbreaking and a complex tethering option. I'd gladly pay AT&T for the feature, but they say they can't offer it yet. Until then I'm forced to use alternative methods. I wonder how many are choosing not to update to 3.1 to retain thisbl feature.
I'm not sure I understand you. In the first part of your post you say you're not jailbreaking, but then go on to say you are using "alternative" measures to do something the iPhone isn't supposed to be able to do ... isn't that the same thing? Color me confused.
These jail breakers are the root cause for all of our network problems. Just 3% of the users account for 40% of the data traffic on the 3G network (according to a recent AT&T finding). I wonder who these users are?....maybe the jail breakers?!?!?!?!
They install illegal Apps (slingbox, etc) and illegally rob the bandwidth from the rest of us. I can't check my email because the guy next to me is watching hours worth of TV shows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.
Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
New firmware will do jack shlt. Like you guys have never ONCE used someone else's WiFi. Hypocrites.
Perhaps you could explain property rights law that prevents you from doing what you choose with your own property....i.e. the device that you own.
Um, just off the top of my head... car, boat, gun, house, camera, cough syrup, computer... sure you CAN do 'what you want' with them, but you'll go to jail if you use your computer for child porn, use your cough syrup for meth production, take pictures of someone undressing in a change room, run a brothel out of your home, rob a bank, drive around the lake drunk, drive without a license or intoxicated...
So ya, you CAN do what you want with what you have access to, but that doesn't mean you don't pay the price for your actions. Just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's ok.
I'm not sure I understand you. In the first part of your post you say you're not jailbreaking, but then go on to say you are using "alternative" measures to do something the iPhone isn't supposed to be able to do ... isn't that the same thing? Color me confused.
I installed a tethering profile freely available over the internet. It installs from the iPhone’s browser and allows tethering. worked the same way for MMS. It doesn’t require bypassing any of the locks in place in the OS and doesn’t allow for anything else than adding that specific profile to the iPhone. However, this only worked up until 3.0.1, after that the profiles were signed making tethering a complex setup even for jailbroken phones running 3.1 or later. There is a very distinct difference between adding a profile, unlocking and jailbreaking.
Quote:
The new “iPhone Help Center“, which can be found at help.benm.at, provides the easiest way to enable iPhone Tethering through installing Mobileconfigs directly on your iPhone. No hacking or jailbreaking required! You can also find MMS-Settings for your provider.
The jailbreaker mentality isn't really that peculiar. It's a combination of narcissism and sociopathy compounded by the self-esteem drivel (celebrate me even if I did nothing worth celebrating) that the US educational system has foisted on two generations of Americans.
Who is asking for anyone to be celebrated. Strawman arguments show a weak mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
The narcissism makes it easy for them to justify what they're doing on the grounds that either they're smarter than most folks so they have more rights and privileges, or what they're doing is so cool and ingenious so we should all let them do it and marvel in awe at their feat, and not complain about how that is inconveniencing us. "We are the cool, special people so you should be celebrating us not berating us."
No more right...just rights. Nothing to do with cool or special, but more to so with, hey I own it, I will use it as i see fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
The sociopathy is evident in the self-centeredness that is exhibited when they claim they can use up as much bandwidth as they can, conveniently ignoring the fact that there are resource limits to any wireless network and that everyone else is penalized when too many subscribers become bandwidth hogs. The amazing thing is that when finally AT&T has to take action to manage bandwidth congestion, these same folks will howl the loudest if bandwidth metering beyond a certain threshhold is put in. They'll still be allowed to use as much bandwidth as they want mind you, they'll just have to pay for its real cost now instead of freeloading on us poor saps.
Again, you are showing your confusion with facts. I have not jailbroken and I will use as much of my data as I choose, since I paid for it. Nothing to do with jailbreaking, though jailbreaker do have more options for using data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
They really are no different from the guy who installs a gazillion watt stereo in his car, turns it up to bone-rattling levels, then drives down the street 'sharing' his pacemaker-jamming bass rhythms with us regular motorists. Not giving a care at all that what he is doing is extremely rude, annoying, self-centered, and antisocial. And on top of that getting all indignant about his freedoms being curtailed when a policeman issues him a citation.
talk about specious
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
Jailbreakers like to use specious arguments like the following:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
Tethering is just passing your data through one device to another. I paid for that data. To use as I see fit. It is only theft if I am using something that i did not pay for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtwwg
Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27
For many, jailbreaking gives them the features or abilities that they don't have due to Apple's tight hand.
So, factual is spacious to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.
Why can't you use the device as you see fit? You own the damn thing. The data, sure, you signed an agreement, but is the agreement overly restrictive? That is exactly why net neutrality has become an issue. because not every shares your opinion that the customers should always just swallow what the carriers stick in their mouths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
...and bend over. Some of us simply prefer to think for ourselves...
Um, just off the top of my head... car, boat, gun, house, camera, cough syrup, computer... sure you CAN do 'what you want' with them, but you'll go to jail if you use your computer for child porn, use your cough syrup for meth production, take pictures of someone undressing in a change room, run a brothel out of your home, rob a bank, drive around the lake drunk, drive without a license or intoxicated...
So ya, you CAN do what you want with what you have access to, but that doesn't mean you don't pay the price for your actions. Just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's ok.
Off the top of your head can you think of restrictions not put in place by the government?
If you use your computer to surf legal porn, you want your ISP deciding if that is OK? Or for Apple to decide what movies you can watch?
Legal restrictions are not the same as contractual restrictions. Now, thinking of the items in your home that you own outright, third parties are allowed to arbitrarily restrict your usage?
[QUOTE=Maestro64;1499205BTW the same was true 20 yrs again what only a small % use most of the phone bandwidth. Phone networks were only designed to handle 1/3 of all the possible calls if everyone tried making a call at once.[/QUOTE]
You'd think that they'd wake up and realize that many of us don't even have landline phones these days. The trend is toward cell phones. I also understand that the US isn't exactly a little nation. The amount of money needed to upgrade systems so your cell phone works just as well in Philadelphia as it does in rural Kansas (as a random example), is rather large. That said, it's not like they couldn't see this coming. The first cellphone I ever saw was in a movie - Lethal Weapon 1. They've had time to think about this and see that 1/3 of all possible calls is no longer going to be the case. They ought to reverse it and say that 1/3 of all calls are likely to be landline, and plan accordingly.
funny that evil microsoft doesn't care if you install a hacked ROM on their winmo phones, but apple, palm and google all scream bloody murder if you try
Probably because any hack to a winmo phone can only make it better, whereas iPhone seems to be ok as is for the vast majority of users.
Comments
Well, my point was that it could be argued that it is theft of services, but that jailbreaking doesn't have illegal activity as it's motivation, even if there may be incidental activities that it could enable that might be at least somewhat gray. However, whatever the motivations, I think the prospect that the relatively small number of jailbreakers on AT&T's network are somehow sucking the bandwidth out of it, is unlikely in the extreme. I think it's generally a harmless activity that has positives and negatives for the user.
It's not entirely clear to me what Apple's motivation for putting serious effort into stopping it is. I think most users are deterred simply by the prospect of voiding their warranty and there are certainly not large numbers (relative to the total of iPhone owners) of people doing this. It could be pressure from AT&T to preserve their exclusivity and prevent tethering. It could be security concerns re corporate acceptance or worries about bad publicity. It could be that they just want to keep the reins on the user experience (although, it would surprise me if this were their primary motivation since the numbers jailbreaking are relatively small). Or, it could be some combination of all of the above.
I would agree with most of your reasons.
1) Pressure from AT&T. Yes, just as with iTunes, Apple has agreements in place to restrict certain functionality. A closed systems allows them some control here
2) Corporate security concerns. Not so sure on this one. If it is a company issued device, then a simply policy not to jailbreak it should be enough. Jailbreaking it is not worth your job. If it is for personal devices, they have the same concerns about personal laptops and other devices. Either the ban them or allow them. I wouldn't see jailbreaking as being much of a concernhere.
3)Control the entire user experience. makes sense. They have been successful here, but they need to remember that too many restrictions will never go over well.
I think theft of software is an actual concern. Even more important to the success of the AppStore than it being a closed ecosystem is that developers have taken to it so well and many of the apps are still iPhone exclusives. If developers feel that their software is just going to be ripped off as soon as it hits the app store, then they will at the least develop for other platforms as well, making those stores more robust and successful. Also, everytime a legit app is cracked and stolen, that is money directly out of Apple pocket.
Having said that it doesn't seem like running cracked software is all that popular yet. I certainly don't know anyone that has done it...anyone I have spoken with that has ever jailbroken has only used it to install software released for jailbroken phones, not AppStore apps that have been cracked.
I tell you what is theft too : my carrier does give a fiddlers if I tether or don't. I purchased a LEGAL UNLOCKED phone as per the laws in Belgium. Up until FW 3.0 I could install a mobileconfig myself and tether as I see fit.
Now I can't (if I were to go onto 3.1)., because Apple only delivers the ipcc profiles for its OFFICIAL carriers. You call Aplle here they refer you to their official carrier who in turn tells you to Foxtrot-Oscar (and who in turn does NOT like tethering on the Iphone although his dataplans iPhone and Nokia phones are identical - so go figure...)
Now I paid 615 ? for my iPhone (go figure how much that is in $) and if I upgrade to 3.1 I lose a vital facility.
Sounds like a legitimate complaint. Perhaps you should lobby for a change to the law that would require handset manufacturers to provide ipcc profiles for any permitted carrier (i.e., official and any others, as permitted by the nature of the law). In the meantime, it certainly seems like a good reason to jailbreak.
... Corporate security concerns.
[...]
I think theft of software is an actual concern. Even more important to the success of the AppStore than it being a closed ecosystem is that developers have taken to it so well and many of the apps are still iPhone exclusives. If developers feel that their software is just going to be ripped off as soon as it hits the app store, then they will at the least develop for other platforms as well, making those stores more robust and successful. Also, everytime a legit app is cracked and stolen, that is money directly out of Apple pocket.
Having said that it doesn't seem like running cracked software is all that popular yet.
Well, I think the security concern would be, as I believe someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, the perception that the iPhone is easily hackable. In other words, perhaps Apple tries to prevent jailbreaking at least partly not because it opens up the phone per se, but simply to eliminate the perception that it's easy to do so.
The software theft issue may actually be a consideration from the standpoint of developer perception, so perhaps it's more targeted toward that than anyone actually engaged in the same. It does give anyone who has ever released software, and knows that a large number of people used it without paying, a warm feeling to think that anyone using their software has paid for it.
The narcissism makes it easy for them to justify what they're doing on the grounds that either they're smarter than most folks so they have more rights and privileges, or what they're doing is so cool and ingenious so we should all let them do it and marvel in awe at their feat, and not complain about how that is inconveniencing us. "We are the cool, special people so you should be celebrating us not berating us."
The sociopathy is evident in the self-centeredness that is exhibited when they claim they can use up as much bandwidth as they can, conveniently ignoring the fact that there are resource limits to any wireless network and that everyone else is penalized when too many subscribers become bandwidth hogs. The amazing thing is that when finally AT&T has to take action to manage bandwidth congestion, these same folks will howl the loudest if bandwidth metering beyond a certain threshhold is put in. They'll still be allowed to use as much bandwidth as they want mind you, they'll just have to pay for its real cost now instead of freeloading on us poor saps.
They really are no different from the guy who installs a gazillion watt stereo in his car, turns it up to bone-rattling levels, then drives down the street 'sharing' his pacemaker-jamming bass rhythms with us regular motorists. Not giving a care at all that what he is doing is extremely rude, annoying, self-centered, and antisocial. And on top of that getting all indignant about his freedoms being curtailed when a policeman issues him a citation.
Jailbreakers like to use specious arguments like the following:
Tethering is just passing your data through one device to another. I paid for that data. To use as I see fit. It is only theft if I am using something that i did not pay for.
Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it.
For many, jailbreaking gives them the features or abilities that they don't have due to Apple's tight hand.
No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.
Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
For most people, both those creating the JB tools and those JBing their iPhones, it has nothing to do with theft. It is about being able to runs apps that are not otherwise available and being able to use functionality that is not available but should be.
People used it for things like tethering, MMS, modified home screens, etc. It had little to do with theft. But, theft is now becoming an issue because the same tools that allow legitimate modifications can also be used to install and run paid software without paying.
Apple can continue to invest heavily in resources to prevent this. Alternatively, they could loosen the restrictions that drive the majority of people to even try jailbreaking. Allowing an alternative to the AppStore would be one way. If users could get their software elsewhere that Apple chooses not to carry, then the userbase that is uses the JB tools would shrink massively. Fewer people seeking to jailbreak would result in fewer people working on jailbreaking.
With all the apps that are available and more being created every day, I have to think the driving force for jailbreaking is theft, pure and simple. Anytime you try to get an app for free that everyone else is paying for ... that's theft .... and no matter how many "legitimate" excuses you come up with to justify it .... it's still theft.
You are not a "technical user". You are not a "technical" anything. What you are is someone who wants what they want, and doesn't care about being realistic, or even reasonable. You're also completely out of line describing "what jailbreaking is for". That's about as legitimate as saying P2P file sharing is for uploading your purchased CDs so that others can preview the music before purchasing it themselves. Thats hilarious. Maybe 2% will do that. The other 98% are there to steal and hog. So whatever necessary icon changing you may feel is your right, you've completely misunderstood what it means to have a device that you "own" and "may use as you wish."
It sounds to me like the opposite of your "facts." That maybe 2% of jailbreakers steal apps from the app store. The rest just want to run cydia and mostly free, non-authorized apps. Meaning they want to run stuff Apple has not, or will not approve. For example, video on the 3G. How does that make it stealing? Shitty quality, but not theft of anything. People who jailbreak buy apps, whether from the App store or a 3rd party Apple hasn't allowed to sell in the App Store.
I haven't personally found the need to do it, but I equate the need with the likes of a computer. If I was blocked from running Firefox on my MBP, because Apple said it would duplicate Safari, I'd find a way to break the software lock, too. Good luck guys, I'm sure the dev team will figure out another exploit.
You are comparing allowing clones to run the OS (it was Amelio) to Apple allowing alternative sources for apps?
Ok. Conversation done. No further point.
Yes there are similarities. It's about having tight control of everything from software to hardware. It allows Apple to push the boundaries, it's what differentiates them from linux, windows, and now android.
And if you cant see that, your are finally correct in that there is no further point in this conversation.
With all the apps that are available and more being created every day, I have to think the driving force for jailbreaking is theft, pure and simple. Anytime you try to get an app for free that everyone else is paying for ... that's theft .... and no matter how many "legitimate" excuses you come up with to justify it .... it's still theft.
a lot of the UI changes people make by jailbreaking aren't available via apps. and some people want to listen to pandora while typing an email or surfing the web
Which os why the comment is bullocks. I use tethering on my iPhone an rack up a solid 25GB/month without jailbreaking. I can't update to 3.1 or I lose that feature and will have to resort to jailbreaking and a complex tethering option. I'd gladly pay AT&T for the feature, but they say they can't offer it yet. Until then I'm forced to use alternative methods. I wonder how many are choosing not to update to 3.1 to retain thisbl feature.
I'm not sure I understand you. In the first part of your post you say you're not jailbreaking, but then go on to say you are using "alternative" measures to do something the iPhone isn't supposed to be able to do ... isn't that the same thing? Color me confused.
These jail breakers are the root cause for all of our network problems. Just 3% of the users account for 40% of the data traffic on the 3G network (according to a recent AT&T finding). I wonder who these users are?....maybe the jail breakers?!?!?!?!
They install illegal Apps (slingbox, etc) and illegally rob the bandwidth from the rest of us. I can't check my email because the guy next to me is watching hours worth of TV shows.
No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.
Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
New firmware will do jack shlt. Like you guys have never ONCE used someone else's WiFi. Hypocrites.
Yeah, Apple should have gone the Openmoko route. That thing's just killing the iPhone.
This wouldn't be necessary if Apple ran an open platform and allowed people to install whatever they liked ON THEIR OWN HARDWARE.
Apple brought jailbreaking upon themselves, and long may it continue.
Perhaps you could explain property rights law that prevents you from doing what you choose with your own property....i.e. the device that you own.
Um, just off the top of my head... car, boat, gun, house, camera, cough syrup, computer... sure you CAN do 'what you want' with them, but you'll go to jail if you use your computer for child porn, use your cough syrup for meth production, take pictures of someone undressing in a change room, run a brothel out of your home, rob a bank, drive around the lake drunk, drive without a license or intoxicated...
So ya, you CAN do what you want with what you have access to, but that doesn't mean you don't pay the price for your actions. Just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's ok.
... but you'll go to jail if you ... drive around the lake drunk
Well, actually, I wouldn't be breaking any law if I did that.
I'm not sure I understand you. In the first part of your post you say you're not jailbreaking, but then go on to say you are using "alternative" measures to do something the iPhone isn't supposed to be able to do ... isn't that the same thing? Color me confused.
I installed a tethering profile freely available over the internet. It installs from the iPhone’s browser and allows tethering. worked the same way for MMS. It doesn’t require bypassing any of the locks in place in the OS and doesn’t allow for anything else than adding that specific profile to the iPhone. However, this only worked up until 3.0.1, after that the profiles were signed making tethering a complex setup even for jailbroken phones running 3.1 or later. There is a very distinct difference between adding a profile, unlocking and jailbreaking.
The new “iPhone Help Center“, which can be found at help.benm.at, provides the easiest way to enable iPhone Tethering through installing Mobileconfigs directly on your iPhone. No hacking or jailbreaking required! You can also find MMS-Settings for your provider.
The jailbreaker mentality isn't really that peculiar. It's a combination of narcissism and sociopathy compounded by the self-esteem drivel (celebrate me even if I did nothing worth celebrating) that the US educational system has foisted on two generations of Americans.
Who is asking for anyone to be celebrated. Strawman arguments show a weak mind.
The narcissism makes it easy for them to justify what they're doing on the grounds that either they're smarter than most folks so they have more rights and privileges, or what they're doing is so cool and ingenious so we should all let them do it and marvel in awe at their feat, and not complain about how that is inconveniencing us. "We are the cool, special people so you should be celebrating us not berating us."
No more right...just rights. Nothing to do with cool or special, but more to so with, hey I own it, I will use it as i see fit.
The sociopathy is evident in the self-centeredness that is exhibited when they claim they can use up as much bandwidth as they can, conveniently ignoring the fact that there are resource limits to any wireless network and that everyone else is penalized when too many subscribers become bandwidth hogs. The amazing thing is that when finally AT&T has to take action to manage bandwidth congestion, these same folks will howl the loudest if bandwidth metering beyond a certain threshhold is put in. They'll still be allowed to use as much bandwidth as they want mind you, they'll just have to pay for its real cost now instead of freeloading on us poor saps.
Again, you are showing your confusion with facts. I have not jailbroken and I will use as much of my data as I choose, since I paid for it. Nothing to do with jailbreaking, though jailbreaker do have more options for using data.
They really are no different from the guy who installs a gazillion watt stereo in his car, turns it up to bone-rattling levels, then drives down the street 'sharing' his pacemaker-jamming bass rhythms with us regular motorists. Not giving a care at all that what he is doing is extremely rude, annoying, self-centered, and antisocial. And on top of that getting all indignant about his freedoms being curtailed when a policeman issues him a citation.
talk about specious
Jailbreakers like to use specious arguments like the following:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
Tethering is just passing your data through one device to another. I paid for that data. To use as I see fit. It is only theft if I am using something that i did not pay for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtwwg
Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27
For many, jailbreaking gives them the features or abilities that they don't have due to Apple's tight hand.
So, factual is spacious to you?
No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.
Why can't you use the device as you see fit? You own the damn thing. The data, sure, you signed an agreement, but is the agreement overly restrictive? That is exactly why net neutrality has become an issue. because not every shares your opinion that the customers should always just swallow what the carriers stick in their mouths.
Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
...and bend over. Some of us simply prefer to think for ourselves...
Um, just off the top of my head... car, boat, gun, house, camera, cough syrup, computer... sure you CAN do 'what you want' with them, but you'll go to jail if you use your computer for child porn, use your cough syrup for meth production, take pictures of someone undressing in a change room, run a brothel out of your home, rob a bank, drive around the lake drunk, drive without a license or intoxicated...
So ya, you CAN do what you want with what you have access to, but that doesn't mean you don't pay the price for your actions. Just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's ok.
Off the top of your head can you think of restrictions not put in place by the government?
If you use your computer to surf legal porn, you want your ISP deciding if that is OK? Or for Apple to decide what movies you can watch?
Legal restrictions are not the same as contractual restrictions. Now, thinking of the items in your home that you own outright, third parties are allowed to arbitrarily restrict your usage?
You'd think that they'd wake up and realize that many of us don't even have landline phones these days. The trend is toward cell phones. I also understand that the US isn't exactly a little nation. The amount of money needed to upgrade systems so your cell phone works just as well in Philadelphia as it does in rural Kansas (as a random example), is rather large. That said, it's not like they couldn't see this coming. The first cellphone I ever saw was in a movie - Lethal Weapon 1. They've had time to think about this and see that 1/3 of all possible calls is no longer going to be the case. They ought to reverse it and say that 1/3 of all calls are likely to be landline, and plan accordingly.
funny that evil microsoft doesn't care if you install a hacked ROM on their winmo phones, but apple, palm and google all scream bloody murder if you try
Probably because any hack to a winmo phone can only make it better, whereas iPhone seems to be ok as is for the vast majority of users.
The jailbreaker mentality isn't really that peculiar. It's a combination of narcissism and sociopathy compounded by the self-esteem drivel ...
The narcissism makes it easy for them to justify ...
The sociopathy is evident in the self-centeredness that is exhibited ...
They really are no different from the guy ...
Jailbreakers like to use specious arguments like the following:
No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement ...
Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
Someone with an appreciation of Alexander Pope,
Who reasons wisely is not therefore wise,? His pride in reasoning, not in acting lies.