Barnes & Noble e-reader rumored to be merging of Kindle, iPhone

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 81
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Okay, I wasn't going to comment on this any more, but this is precisely what I was talking about.



    This is a total BS, made-up "factoid" about LCD eyestrain above. I see stuff like this all the time and most people just nod their heads.



    Why do people have such an aversion to facts and knowledge? What prompts someone to just make up crap like this and spew it out on the Internet as fact?



    It's so easy to just "say stuff."

    (and so hard to actually make sense and think about things apparently)





    So now you know what strains my eyes? And others too?

    HA- now I think I've heard it all. Talk about total BS.
  • Reply 42 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Well we're really talking a reading specific device. Laptops play music but are rthey competing against iPods and Zunes?



    That's an interesting question.



    The answer is not really?for most people. But, there have been numerous articles written as to how people are leaving their laptops and notebooks at home, in favor of their iPhones and Touches. So there is obviously some overlap, depending on needs.



    We have no idea of what Apple may come out with next year, if they even do come out with something.



    But right now. I've got over a dozen books on my iPhone, and have read several dozen since I purchased it early late summer after it first came out.



    There are always going to be some people who aren't happy about doing new things, but will do them if the new things aren't too different from what they've been doing before.



    The Kindle seems to be a compromise. But really, and I don't know if you've ever really used it, or if you have, for how long, or under what circumstances, it isn't any easier to read than anything else, and is often harder. The only time there's an advantage in in sunlight.



    But, even there, whenever you have problems because of the high ambient light levels with reading "real" books, you will have a problem with the Kindle as well.



    The truth is that in very high glaring ambient light, reading is difficult, and sunglasses become a requirement.



    But not polarizing versions. They cause almost as much of a problem with e-ink as they do with LCds.



    So how will Apple compete in the future?



    Articles have said that Apple's device will allow publishers to have full color, and that IS a big advantage. It will allow video, music, motion graphics. These are all things that magazine publishers are interested in bringing to the electronic reader market.



    If the product is light enough, and has decent battery life, I see 10 hours being bandied around as being sufficient, then hopefully, people will want to carry it around with them.
  • Reply 43 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    So now you know what strains my eyes? And others too?

    HA- now I think I've heard it all. Talk about total BS.



    I don't think that YOU know what strains your eyes, and that's the problem.



    You, and some others, attribute it to one thing, when it's actually something else.
  • Reply 44 of 81
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Oh please!



    most of us here use computers for hours at a time, with no eyestrain.



    If eyestrain is a problem, it's bot because of the screen, but because of the way the screen is used.



    If people put their monitors high up so that they have to look up constantly, that results in neck, back strain, and eyestrain.



    If a monitor is too bright, that can result in eyestrain.



    With all handheld e-ink screens, you don't have the placement problem (as you shouldn't with any small device). You also can't set the brightness too high, because the inferior brightness, due to the fact that it relies on ambient light, doesn't have the capability.



    There are far more negatives to current e-ink than positives.



    All I'm saying is on a small portable device it doesn't matter but on a large stationary device it does.
  • Reply 45 of 81
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't think that YOU know what strains your eyes, and that's the problem.



    You, and some others, attribute it to one thing, when it's actually something else.



    Glare is glare - even YOU can't change that fact.
  • Reply 46 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    All I'm saying is on a small portable device it doesn't matter but on a large stationary device it does.



    But only for the reasons I gave in another post. It's not a generic thing that's endemic to the screen type.
  • Reply 47 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Glare is glare - even YOU can't change that fact.



    Glare only happens under certain circumstances. Glossy glass screens don't have glare built in. It a reflection of the environment (pun intended)



    We have two 24" glossy iMacs here, and neither has a problem with glare.
  • Reply 48 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post


    So, we now get Barnes and Noble news too? This isn't about Apple!



    Glad to see more e-ink devices, and more competition for the Kindle. Don't know how I feel about the LCD in this device though. Sounds like a screen just for the UI instead of a UI built for the screen.



    That just shows how one (me in this case) can make assumptions based on our perceptions.



    When I heard that the B&N reader had both E-Ink and LCD, I figured that one would be layered on top of the other-- giving a display that could display either or both. When LCD calculators first came out (1970s) it was a common practice for teachers to remove the back of the device exposing the clear LCD screen (except the areas displaying numbers). The teacher would then place this on an Overhead Projector and display the enlarged view on a screen or whiteboard.



    I guess I just figured the same would be true of a layered E-Ink / LCD-- the one not being used would be turned off and would be transparent.



    The suggested 2-display (separate but unequal) approach, suggested in the article, is doomed IMO.



    Though, I do believe that CoverFlow will be an excellent UI for navigation a Tablet. It is my understanding that Apple bought the company that created CoverFlow and now owns the IIP rights.



    *
  • Reply 49 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    That just shows how one (me in this case) can make assumptions based on our perceptions.



    When I heard that the B&N reader had both E-Ink and LCD, I figured that one would be layered on top of the other-- giving a display that could display either or both. When LCD calculators first came out (1970s) it was a common practice for teachers to remove the back of the device exposing the clear LCD screen (except the areas displaying numbers). The teacher would then place this on an Overhead Projector and display the enlarged view on a screen or whiteboard.



    I guess I just figured the same would be true of a layered E-Ink / LCD-- the one not being used would be turned off and would be transparent.



    The suggested 2-display (separate but unequal) approach, suggested in the article, is doomed IMO.



    Though, I do believe that CoverFlow will be an excellent UI for navigation a Tablet. It is my understanding that Apple bought the company that created CoverFlow and now owns the IIP rights.



    *



    I do think that this reader, if the shown specs are real, is better than the Kindle and Sony readers.



    The color LCD display is much better than the keys on other devices. It's much more versatile.



    But, you're right about your first assumption. I had the same one!
  • Reply 50 of 81
    Just out of interest, and I don't know if there is any evidence behind this, but I wonder if eyestrain on LCD screens is a factor of how old you are, or how good your eyesight is normally?



    I do suffer eyestrain if I try to read non-stop on the laptop for a couple of hours (which is a rare event), but I don't with the Kindle. I'm only 33, but I do have to wear glasses because my eyesight isn't that great.
  • Reply 51 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


    Just out of interest, and I don't know if there is any evidence behind this, but I wonder if eyestrain on LCD screens is a factor of how old you are, or how good your eyesight is normally?



    I do suffer eyestrain if I try to read non-stop on the laptop for a couple of hours (which is a rare event), but I don't with the Kindle. I'm only 33, but I do have to wear glasses because my eyesight isn't that great.



    If you've been reading the posts, you'll see some reasons.



    If your screen is set too brightly, then you can suffer eyestrain. It's like being outdoors on a bright sunny, cloudless day. You squint to keep that brightness and glare out of your eyes. Or, as I do, you wear a hat with a brim, or sunglasses.



    If people understood more about how much brightness they needed from their screens, then there would be much less eyestrain.



    Also setting the monitor height is important for desktops. The top of the screen should be level with your eyes, if possible. Looking up results in strain on your back, neck, and the muscles of your eyes, as they have to look upwards constantly, which strains them.
  • Reply 52 of 81
    ronboronbo Posts: 669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post


    e-ink also is reflective, rather than emitive so it can be read in direct sunlight. A huge advantage, I think.



    Yes and no. It can indeed be read in bright sunlight, which LCDs can't. But I have a Kindle, and ?direct sunlight? is something of a trick phrase in mine at least. If I have direct sunlight shining on the display as the screen is drawing a new page, the e-ink is VERY pale where the sunlight is shining on it. When I turn pages, I need to tilt the device so the face is shaded. Not a huge issue, but annoying. (I don't know if this is universal. I've only ever seen one other in the wild, and I never talked to the guy about the issue).
  • Reply 53 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Oh please!



    most of us here use computers for hours at a time, with no eyestrain.



    If eyestrain is a problem, it's bot because of the screen, but because of the way the screen is used.



    If people put their monitors high up so that they have to look up constantly, that results in neck, back strain, and eyestrain.



    If a monitor is too bright, that can result in eyestrain.



    With all handheld e-ink screens, you don't have the placement problem (as you shouldn't with any small device). You also can't set the brightness too high, because the inferior brightness, due to the fact that it relies on ambient light, doesn't have the capability.



    There are far more negatives to current e-ink than positives.



    I am sorry. This is incorrect. LCD screens cause eye strain to me personally and to many people I know, not because of their ergonomics but because of the nature of how they function emitting light. I find it impossible to read for any length on them. I have two wink devices and they are great to read on. that said I am eagerly awaiting for apples tablet. just for an internet on the go device it will be great, much better than this bastardized barnes and noble thing. And I hope apple come up with a great screen and a very usable device, I am sure they will. but it will be for casual reading not booklengthwise. e ink is the way of the future and anyone who's used such a device will attest to how easier it is to read on it than LCD screens.



    and let's make this our mantra too for the changing times:



    NO DRM for BOOKS, FREE DIGITAL COPY for EVERY PHYSICAL BOUGHT.



    this is VERY important because amazon and publishers want to pull a fast on us like the music biz, to have us buy our books like vinyl and cd twice over. It's INEXCUSABLE how the have de facto managed to sell us physical copies of books without a free digital version if available and how they expect us to buy twice a book just for the priviledge of having a lighter bag and reading some pages of a book you already have on the go.



    DEMAND IT NOW. NO DRM, NO DOUBLE PRICE.
  • Reply 54 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post


    Yes and no. It can indeed be read in bright sunlight, which LCDs can't. But I have a Kindle, and ?direct sunlight? is something of a trick phrase in mine at least. If I have direct sunlight shining on the display as the screen is drawing a new page, the e-ink is VERY pale where the sunlight is shining on it. When I turn pages, I need to tilt the device so the face is shaded. Not a huge issue, but annoying. (I don't know if this is universal. I've only ever seen one other in the wild, and I never talked to the guy about the issue).



    I don't get that with my irex digital reader. actually in bright sunlight the screen looks as paperlike as it can. really stunning.
  • Reply 55 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    If you've been reading the posts, you'll see some reasons.



    If your screen is set too brightly, then you can suffer eyestrain. It's like being outdoors on a bright sunny, cloudless day. You squint to keep that brightness and glare out of your eyes. Or, as I do, you wear a hat with a brim, or sunglasses.



    If people understood more about how much brightness they needed from their screens, then there would be much less eyestrain.



    Also setting the monitor height is important for desktops. The top of the screen should be level with your eyes, if possible. Looking up results in strain on your back, neck, and the muscles of your eyes, as they have to look upwards constantly, which strains them.



    this is a very informative post. thanks for the pointers. but enlighten me on how I can keep my 24 iMac level with my eyes unless I sit on a four to five cushions on top of my desk chair.
  • Reply 56 of 81
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,073member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Yes it is. There has already been a study showing that more books are sold to iPhone and Touch users than to kindle users.



    Can you provide a link to this study? Thanks



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Under certain circumstances e-ink is better, and under others, LCD's or OLEDs will be better.



    Our eyes and brain doesn't know whether the light is reflected or emitted. It's all the same. What makes a difference is how bright it is, what the contrast is, the colors etc.



    I can set my most of my iPhone readers to emulate the exact look of the Kindle screen (which I've used). I don't like that look, too dim, with too little contrast, but it can be done.



    My God, you can't be serious.



    After perhaps two years of reading on a Sony and an iLiad reader, usiing an iPhone or other phone to read makes me cry.
  • Reply 57 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    I am sorry. This is incorrect. LCD screens cause eye strain to me personally and to many people I know, not because of their ergonomics but because of the nature of how they function emitting light. I find it impossible to read for any length on them. I have two wink devices and they are great to read on. that said I am eagerly awaiting for apples tablet. just for an internet on the go device it will be great, much better than this bastardized barnes and noble thing. And I hope apple come up with a great screen and a very usable device, I am sure they will. but it will be for casual reading not booklengthwise. e ink is the way of the future and anyone who's used such a device will attest to how easier it is to read on it than LCD screens.



    It's a complete fallacy that emitting light has anything to do with eyestrain.



    Can you try to explain how the eye "knows" that photons coming from the surface of a screen are bouncing off it, or are coming through it?



    They can't. It has nothing to do with it. It's all a matter of brightness, contrast, distance, angle of view, and other factors.
  • Reply 58 of 81
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    this is a very informative post. thanks for the pointers. but enlighten me on how I can keep my 24 iMac level with my eyes unless I sit on a four to five cushions on top of my desk chair.



    Well, I recall reading a couple of years ago an article in the NY Times about (then) recent research on this topic and the conclusion was that it was actually best to sort of be slouched back in your desk chair so that you are naturally looking slightly up at your monitor(s). This position apparently reduces strain on your lower back, and is much better for you than sitting straight up, or, worse yet, leaning forward. It works for me. I think there may have also have been something in the article (can't find it now) about having something to prop or brace your feet against, but maybe that was just for shorter people, or if your chair is high.
  • Reply 59 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


    Can you provide a link to this study? Thanks



    I can point you to a bunch of things, but this one should give you an idea.



    http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/02/sta...002stanza.html



    Quote:

    My God, you can't be serious.



    After perhaps two years of reading on a Sony and an iLiad reader, usiing an iPhone or other phone to read makes me cry.



    My god, yes I am!
  • Reply 60 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,796member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Well, I recall reading a couple of years ago an article in the NY Times about (then) recent research on this topic and the conclusion was that it was actually best to sort of be slouched back in your desk chair so that you are naturally looking slightly up at your monitor(s). This position apparently reduces strain on your lower back, and is much better for you than sitting straight up, or, worse yet, leaning forward. It works for me. I think there may have also have been something in the article (can't find it now) about having something to prop or brace your feet against, but maybe that was just for shorter people, or if your chair is high.



    This is only if you have a high back chair with a headrest.



    In that case, you aren't actually looking up at all, as the angle of your back and head are looking forwards at the slightly tilted down monitor.



    It amounts to the same thing.



    But studies done in the EU have shown that sitting upright is best for your back and neck.



    http://www.fitness-programs-for-life...r-posture.html



    I know that the site also sells things, however its advice is not unique to it, but you can find many similar articles from those that don't, such as this one:



    http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/comp...positions.html
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