No offense, but Firewire is useful for far more then accessories and external hard drives. It is far more effective at trouble shooting and repairing troubled Macs then Ethernet. For instance, a while ago my step father's Mac had a corrupted system file. It wouldn't boot. I brought my laptop to his house and started his Mac in target disk mode. I replaced the corrupted file on his system from my Mac. You couldn't do that without Firewire because 1) his OS was corrupt so it would not start, and 2) even if it would boot up permissions would get in the way. A host Mac never has enough permission access to change the system files on another Mac when using Ethernet. Firewire merely treats the troubled Mac as another slave hard drive.
Also, I bought the last Mac book that Apple temporarily dispensed with Firewire. I suspected I would miss Firewire, but I had a family member who worked at Apple and I would be losing his discount soon if I didn't act soon. The 25 percent savings, convinced me to dispense with the Firewire. Boy did I regret it. The Migration Assistant kept stalling out on bringing over my files from my old Mac. Ethernet wouldn't bring over half of the things because it would keep claiming I didn't have adequate permissions. If I had Firewire on the new Mac, I could have cloned my user file from the older Mac. Further, it is much faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
The lack of firewire on this model is not an issue. Most who buy this won't even have an external harddrive, let alone seriouz accessoriez.
Nice update. If nothing else, the "unibody" enclosure cuts down on annoying little parts inside the case and makes servicing much easier. If you take apart a TiBook and a UMacBook Pro, then you'd understand why unibody enclosures are so much better in every way.
I wonder which LED screen this MB has. If it is the same one as the first gen. unibody MacBook, then some people will be upset --yet the old MB screen was far worse.
Most consumers looking into the MB aren't concerned about FW, so this is not an issue except for whiners.
It makes no sense. The main reason I want Firewire is to connect Macs to troubleshoot them or to bring over data when buying a new Mac.
Ethernet sucks at bringing over data from another Mac and diagnosing problems. Firewire treats another Mac as a slave drive to the master drive. When signed in as root, it overrides any permissions on the slave drive. So, if I want to clone a drive from one to another, permissions are not an issue. Further, you can delete and /or replace any file on an effected Mac, which is great for troubleshooting. These things can't be done with Ethernet because Ethernet treats another Mac as a networked computer subject to permissions.
Up until recently, I could confidently grab my Mac and a Firewire cable and fix and feel assured I can fix any problem on another person's Mac. I have fixed many friend and family members Macs this way. Taking the Firewire away makes it much harder for people to fix troubled Macs without having to resort to a fresh install.
Firewire across the board was something that truly make being a Mac user a pleasure. Big mistake on Apple's par tin my mind.
Completely agreed! Target Disk alone makes FW worth it. Period. I've used it many times. It's not a nicety, it's a life-saver. And of course it's all the more important now that Apple has locked down everything including batteries and drives and network cards and RAM with screws, all of which used to be accessible in seconds without tools. WTF with their industrial engineering, it's gone to crap IMO.
At least hopefully it won't fall apart like the piece of sh!t white plastic MacBooks. Anyone that owns one knows what I'm talking about! The pieces on the wrist rest. Which are of course nice and razor-sharp anyway, practically sharp enough to cut your wrists and kill you. Hopefully the unibody will be smooth there and hold together. Still not worth losing FW. Apple shouldn't have been greedy, they should have given FW away or licensed it cheaper.
Well, looks like I'll be getting the 13" MB Pro in a couple weeks. I was waiting to see what this update would bring. Basically the FW made the choice for me. Plus with student discount you save $100 on the MP Pro and only $50 on the MB. I agree with others they should have cut it to $949 for the general public, $899 students...just for that psychological difference...But other than that, looks like a solid machine, if you don't need FW. Looks pretty sweet actually. The new battery especially.
No offense, but Firewire is useful for far more then accessories and external hard drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic
Completely agreed! Target Disk alone makes FW worth it. Period. I've used it many times. It's not a nicety, it's a life-saver.
You both need Target Disk Mode often to repair Macs with corrupted OSes but don?t have an external 2.5? HDD/SSD with OS X on it? It boots up with the use of another Mac. If you go into an Apple Store with a Mac that won?t boot this is how they will connect to it. You can use FW or USB, just hold down the Option key when booting.
Where is the battery indicator light? I don't see it on the side like the macbook pro's or on the bottom.
Good catch! looks like this is one of the areas that they saved a little money. I have never used that feature. I can see what my battery status is in more detail from the Menu Bar.
8 #0 phillips head screwdrivers and you've got access to pretty much everything-- battery, drive, ram. The battery has a few odd duck "tri-wing" fasteners holding it down, and the drive uses torx, but a few bucks at the local hardware store for a few speciality drivers and your MacBook is fully upgradable.
8 #0 phillips head screwdrivers and you've got access to pretty much everything-- battery, drive, ram. The battery has a few odd duck "tri-wing" fasteners holding it down, and the drive uses torx, but a few bucks at the local hardware store for a few speciality drivers and your MacBook is fully upgradable.
Some things I didn’t expect…
"The lower case is surprisingly heavy, weighing in at 266 grams. The lower case is actually a sheet of aluminum with rubberized coating injection-molded onto one side.”
“Also gone is an IR port for a remote. As far as we know, that makes the MacBook the only currently shipping Apple laptop that doesn't support a remote.”
"The hard drive isn't as easy to replace as it used to be, but it can be done. The hard drive is still considered "user replaceable" by Apple. It's strange that the hard drive is "user replaceable", but the battery is not.” [Apple doesn’t want you to dispose of batteries improperly]
In the summer of 1969 I flew a Monocoque-design Beechcraft Musketeer Sport airplane ("Fighter plane design" they called it) through power lines over the midwest USA. Stopped the prop, bent the nosegear sideways, shoved the exhaust stacks back 3 inches. Loose wire ends popped out the side window, showering us in glass. Another ripped an 8-inch gash in the top of the left wing.
We got the engine restarted at about 25 feet above ground, flew it back to an airport 80 miles away, and landed safely. The FAA accident investigator told us if it had been any other brand of light aircraft, we'd have been decorating the Kansas wheat. Monocoque structural engineering saved my life.
Wow !!! Absolutely amazing...
From F1 cars and skis to submarines, buildings, and aircraft, monocoque structure today is pervasive. Yet there's probably no better example of its strength (and engineering beauty) than the common egg. Chickens may be dim but everyday they produce a natural marvel.
You shouldn't condemn it so fast. A well engineered plastic enclosure could be just as strong and durable as an aluminum one. Only time will tell if Apple did it right.
Dave
Actually decent plastic will handle small bumps and scratches much better that aluminium.
I'm perfectly fine with plastic (having HP notebook)... But is it good plastic? Have they improved on previous plastic MacBook, or are we going to see cracks all over again..?
No, not really, the opposite in this situation. Thinking that all plastics are the same is like thinking all metals are the same, it's not. Some plastics are cheap but polycarbonate is not. I recall polycarbonate being more expensive per cubic inch than aluminum, though molding is probably a lot cheaper than Apple's machined cases because it's one hit rather in the mold than several machining steps. The stuff is terrifically durable too. Aluminum has its benefits, but polycarbonate is better with impacts. I can use a deadblow mallet to severely bend and distort 1/4" thick aluminum plate, using the same force, same hammer with 1/4" thick polycarbonate sent the hammer right back at me with not so much as a scratch, crack or bend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
I guess you did not see the video that showed how the aluminum unibody MacBook Pros are made.
I saw the video, I think you might have misinterpreted it, not knowing what's going on. The only thing laser etched about Apple's aluminum shells might be the speaker grille. The rest is machined using drills & end mills, metal on metal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macs_since_1984
No FireWire, no big deal since FireWire has been and is problematic.
I liked FireWire at first but experienced some Mac FireWire port failures and many FireWire drive port/chipset failures. For that reason, I quickly upgraded to FireWire/USB 2 combo drive enclosures just in case. I'm glad I did.
Melgross talks about Firewire failures on occasion too, but I don't know what's happening. I even have Firewire drives constantly and intermittently connected to my computer without troubles.
No, not really, the opposite in this situation. Polycarbonate isn't cheap. I recall polycarbonate being more expensive per cubic inch than aluminum, though molding is probably a lot cheaper than Apple's machined cases because it's one hit rather in the mold than several machining steps. The stuff is terrifically durable too. I can use a deadblow mallet to severely bend and distort.
Not that it?s related to what you are talking about, but has everyone noticed that the case bottom is aluminium with a rubberized injection covering it?
Quote:
Melgross talks about Firewire failures on occasion too, but I don't know what's happening. I even have Firewire drives constantly and intermittently connected to my computer without troubles.
I had this problem, too, with a 2.5? TIme Machine drive. Time Machine would often fail and the iMac wouldn?t boot up with the drive plugged it. I finally just moved to USB and no more problems. It could very well have been a firmware issue with the drive, but I?ll never know.
So where's the cheaper hardware hinted the day before?
Why would Apple offer cheaper hardware at the time when they are making more money than ever..? Obviously their business model (including pricing strategy) works well.
Why would Apple offer cheaper hardware at the time when they are making more money than ever..? Obviously their business model (including pricing strategy) works well.
Saturation is one reason. I think prior to the last price drop Apple had 92% of the $1000+ market segment. Unless that segment itself is growing because Apple is entering new countries or the economy is allowing people to enter that segment they?d have to lower prices to maintain growth. The shareholders won?t be happy if Q4-2010 Apple sells only 3M Macs again.
most of the folks that would need a firewire port would likely be better off with the pro model anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
Don't yet know if it's black or white.
white
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
it's a nice way of saying cheap plastic
not at all. i popped into my local store to pick up some things and was happy to see that they had gotten in a few of the new model and one of the managers was carrying one around for folks to see it. the case was actually very nice. no more edge to crack, case had a nice smooth finish that should clean up better (so no dingy top piece anymore) and having the same trackpad makes it easier to switch to a new model if one sees a need to move up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig
So a $136 premium for those of us in the UK :-(
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
Would love to recommend this to my friends who don't have a Mac but Apples insistence on ripping off anyone outside of the US is just not on, simply put the, attitude seems to be if you aren't am American you can bend over and take it like a bitch.
I"m sure the two of you, and the other non Americans on the board actually understand that when one is a company in one country importing your product to another company, the receiving company often has import taxes that raise the price of the products. and not even Apple can get around this.
so in fact it is your own country telling you to 'bend over and take it'
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Stunning Design, but...
2gb RAM?
for the purposes the model was designed for and the audience that buys it, 2GB is quite often more than enough.
Quote:
For US $1000.00 isn't very competitive in the face of countless laptops with far better specs at half-the price.
Oh Well - That's Apple!
sure is, which is why they are one of the few companies that has actually had sales go up during this recession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
$129 to replace a battery?
well that's the same price as the old batteries. the only difference is that you have to make an free appointment to have a genius do the replacement
and as for the cost, as you and I are both aware -- being the wise and well read Apple users that we are -- these new batteries are spec'd at up to 1000 charge cycles, whereas the old ones only up to 300 cycles. so rather than having to replace a battery every year, its more like every 2-3 years if not longer. you could be sick of and actually replace the whole computer before you ever have to replace the battery
Good catch! looks like this is one of the areas that they saved a little money. I have never used that feature. I can see what my battery status is in more detail from the Menu Bar.
yeah. I guess it doesn't matter too much. I only used it when my computer was off. Was a quick way to take a look at the battery before I took my laptop to class.
Comments
Also, I bought the last Mac book that Apple temporarily dispensed with Firewire. I suspected I would miss Firewire, but I had a family member who worked at Apple and I would be losing his discount soon if I didn't act soon. The 25 percent savings, convinced me to dispense with the Firewire. Boy did I regret it. The Migration Assistant kept stalling out on bringing over my files from my old Mac. Ethernet wouldn't bring over half of the things because it would keep claiming I didn't have adequate permissions. If I had Firewire on the new Mac, I could have cloned my user file from the older Mac. Further, it is much faster.
The lack of firewire on this model is not an issue. Most who buy this won't even have an external harddrive, let alone seriouz accessoriez.
I wonder which LED screen this MB has. If it is the same one as the first gen. unibody MacBook, then some people will be upset --yet the old MB screen was far worse.
Most consumers looking into the MB aren't concerned about FW, so this is not an issue except for whiners.
It makes no sense. The main reason I want Firewire is to connect Macs to troubleshoot them or to bring over data when buying a new Mac.
Ethernet sucks at bringing over data from another Mac and diagnosing problems. Firewire treats another Mac as a slave drive to the master drive. When signed in as root, it overrides any permissions on the slave drive. So, if I want to clone a drive from one to another, permissions are not an issue. Further, you can delete and /or replace any file on an effected Mac, which is great for troubleshooting. These things can't be done with Ethernet because Ethernet treats another Mac as a networked computer subject to permissions.
Up until recently, I could confidently grab my Mac and a Firewire cable and fix and feel assured I can fix any problem on another person's Mac. I have fixed many friend and family members Macs this way. Taking the Firewire away makes it much harder for people to fix troubled Macs without having to resort to a fresh install.
Firewire across the board was something that truly make being a Mac user a pleasure. Big mistake on Apple's par tin my mind.
Completely agreed! Target Disk alone makes FW worth it. Period. I've used it many times. It's not a nicety, it's a life-saver. And of course it's all the more important now that Apple has locked down everything including batteries and drives and network cards and RAM with screws, all of which used to be accessible in seconds without tools. WTF with their industrial engineering, it's gone to crap IMO.
At least hopefully it won't fall apart like the piece of sh!t white plastic MacBooks. Anyone that owns one knows what I'm talking about! The pieces on the wrist rest. Which are of course nice and razor-sharp anyway, practically sharp enough to cut your wrists and kill you.
Well, looks like I'll be getting the 13" MB Pro in a couple weeks. I was waiting to see what this update would bring. Basically the FW made the choice for me. Plus with student discount you save $100 on the MP Pro and only $50 on the MB. I agree with others they should have cut it to $949 for the general public, $899 students...just for that psychological difference...But other than that, looks like a solid machine, if you don't need FW. Looks pretty sweet actually. The new battery especially.
No offense, but Firewire is useful for far more then accessories and external hard drives.
Completely agreed! Target Disk alone makes FW worth it. Period. I've used it many times. It's not a nicety, it's a life-saver.
You both need Target Disk Mode often to repair Macs with corrupted OSes but don?t have an external 2.5? HDD/SSD with OS X on it? It boots up with the use of another Mac. If you go into an Apple Store with a Mac that won?t boot this is how they will connect to it. You can use FW or USB, just hold down the Option key when booting.
So where's the cheaper hardware hinted the day before?
It is in the wild imaginations of rumor pundits.
Where is the battery indicator light? I don't see it on the side like the macbook pro's or on the bottom.
Good catch! looks like this is one of the areas that they saved a little money. I have never used that feature. I can see what my battery status is in more detail from the Menu Bar.
8 #0 phillips head screwdrivers and you've got access to pretty much everything-- battery, drive, ram. The battery has a few odd duck "tri-wing" fasteners holding it down, and the drive uses torx, but a few bucks at the local hardware store for a few speciality drivers and your MacBook is fully upgradable.
iFixit has the customary teardown already.
8 #0 phillips head screwdrivers and you've got access to pretty much everything-- battery, drive, ram. The battery has a few odd duck "tri-wing" fasteners holding it down, and the drive uses torx, but a few bucks at the local hardware store for a few speciality drivers and your MacBook is fully upgradable.
Some things I didn’t expect…
"The lower case is surprisingly heavy, weighing in at 266 grams. The lower case is actually a sheet of aluminum with rubberized coating injection-molded onto one side.”
“Also gone is an IR port for a remote. As far as we know, that makes the MacBook the only currently shipping Apple laptop that doesn't support a remote.”
"The hard drive isn't as easy to replace as it used to be, but it can be done. The hard drive is still considered "user replaceable" by Apple. It's strange that the hard drive is "user replaceable", but the battery is not.” [Apple doesn’t want you to dispose of batteries improperly]
In the summer of 1969 I flew a Monocoque-design Beechcraft Musketeer Sport airplane ("Fighter plane design" they called it) through power lines over the midwest USA. Stopped the prop, bent the nosegear sideways, shoved the exhaust stacks back 3 inches. Loose wire ends popped out the side window, showering us in glass. Another ripped an 8-inch gash in the top of the left wing.
We got the engine restarted at about 25 feet above ground, flew it back to an airport 80 miles away, and landed safely. The FAA accident investigator told us if it had been any other brand of light aircraft, we'd have been decorating the Kansas wheat. Monocoque structural engineering saved my life.
Wow !!! Absolutely amazing...
From F1 cars and skis to submarines, buildings, and aircraft, monocoque structure today is pervasive. Yet there's probably no better example of its strength (and engineering beauty) than the common egg. Chickens may be dim but everyday they produce a natural marvel.
...and I pitty the poor train.
You shouldn't condemn it so fast. A well engineered plastic enclosure could be just as strong and durable as an aluminum one. Only time will tell if Apple did it right.
Dave
Actually decent plastic will handle small bumps and scratches much better that aluminium.
I'm perfectly fine with plastic (having HP notebook)... But is it good plastic? Have they improved on previous plastic MacBook, or are we going to see cracks all over again..?
it's a nice way of saying cheap plastic
No, not really, the opposite in this situation. Thinking that all plastics are the same is like thinking all metals are the same, it's not. Some plastics are cheap but polycarbonate is not. I recall polycarbonate being more expensive per cubic inch than aluminum, though molding is probably a lot cheaper than Apple's machined cases because it's one hit rather in the mold than several machining steps. The stuff is terrifically durable too. Aluminum has its benefits, but polycarbonate is better with impacts. I can use a deadblow mallet to severely bend and distort 1/4" thick aluminum plate, using the same force, same hammer with 1/4" thick polycarbonate sent the hammer right back at me with not so much as a scratch, crack or bend.
I guess you did not see the video that showed how the aluminum unibody MacBook Pros are made.
I saw the video, I think you might have misinterpreted it, not knowing what's going on. The only thing laser etched about Apple's aluminum shells might be the speaker grille. The rest is machined using drills & end mills, metal on metal.
No FireWire, no big deal since FireWire has been and is problematic.
I liked FireWire at first but experienced some Mac FireWire port failures and many FireWire drive port/chipset failures. For that reason, I quickly upgraded to FireWire/USB 2 combo drive enclosures just in case. I'm glad I did.
Melgross talks about Firewire failures on occasion too, but I don't know what's happening. I even have Firewire drives constantly and intermittently connected to my computer without troubles.
No, not really, the opposite in this situation. Polycarbonate isn't cheap. I recall polycarbonate being more expensive per cubic inch than aluminum, though molding is probably a lot cheaper than Apple's machined cases because it's one hit rather in the mold than several machining steps. The stuff is terrifically durable too. I can use a deadblow mallet to severely bend and distort.
Not that it?s related to what you are talking about, but has everyone noticed that the case bottom is aluminium with a rubberized injection covering it?
Melgross talks about Firewire failures on occasion too, but I don't know what's happening. I even have Firewire drives constantly and intermittently connected to my computer without troubles.
I had this problem, too, with a 2.5? TIme Machine drive. Time Machine would often fail and the iMac wouldn?t boot up with the drive plugged it. I finally just moved to USB and no more problems. It could very well have been a firmware issue with the drive, but I?ll never know.
So where's the cheaper hardware hinted the day before?
Why would Apple offer cheaper hardware at the time when they are making more money than ever..? Obviously their business model (including pricing strategy) works well.
Why would Apple offer cheaper hardware at the time when they are making more money than ever..? Obviously their business model (including pricing strategy) works well.
Saturation is one reason. I think prior to the last price drop Apple had 92% of the $1000+ market segment. Unless that segment itself is growing because Apple is entering new countries or the economy is allowing people to enter that segment they?d have to lower prices to maintain growth. The shareholders won?t be happy if Q4-2010 Apple sells only 3M Macs again.
NO FIREWIRE???? Let the BITCHIN begin!!!
most of the folks that would need a firewire port would likely be better off with the pro model anyway.
Don't yet know if it's black or white.
white
it's a nice way of saying cheap plastic
not at all. i popped into my local store to pick up some things and was happy to see that they had gotten in a few of the new model and one of the managers was carrying one around for folks to see it. the case was actually very nice. no more edge to crack, case had a nice smooth finish that should clean up better (so no dingy top piece anymore) and having the same trackpad makes it easier to switch to a new model if one sees a need to move up.
So a $136 premium for those of us in the UK :-(
Would love to recommend this to my friends who don't have a Mac but Apples insistence on ripping off anyone outside of the US is just not on, simply put the, attitude seems to be if you aren't am American you can bend over and take it like a bitch.
I"m sure the two of you, and the other non Americans on the board actually understand that when one is a company in one country importing your product to another company, the receiving company often has import taxes that raise the price of the products. and not even Apple can get around this.
so in fact it is your own country telling you to 'bend over and take it'
Stunning Design, but...
2gb RAM?
for the purposes the model was designed for and the audience that buys it, 2GB is quite often more than enough.
For US $1000.00 isn't very competitive in the face of countless laptops with far better specs at half-the price.
Oh Well - That's Apple!
sure is, which is why they are one of the few companies that has actually had sales go up during this recession.
$129 to replace a battery?
well that's the same price as the old batteries. the only difference is that you have to make an free appointment to have a genius do the replacement
and as for the cost, as you and I are both aware -- being the wise and well read Apple users that we are -- these new batteries are spec'd at up to 1000 charge cycles, whereas the old ones only up to 300 cycles. so rather than having to replace a battery every year, its more like every 2-3 years if not longer. you could be sick of and actually replace the whole computer before you ever have to replace the battery
Good catch! looks like this is one of the areas that they saved a little money. I have never used that feature. I can see what my battery status is in more detail from the Menu Bar.
yeah. I guess it doesn't matter too much. I only used it when my computer was off. Was a quick way to take a look at the battery before I took my laptop to class.
dammit ? they didn't opt for a white macbook with black border. Now, that would be very Miami Vice and sexy as hell!
eeeewww! i just threw up in my mouth a little...