Nokia sues Apple over iPhone's use of patented wireless standards

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 73
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Still flogging that horse?



    Still pretending it's irrelevant?
  • Reply 62 of 73
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Still pretending it's irrelevant?



    I'm not pretending
  • Reply 63 of 73
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post


    If Nokia have spent $60 billion in 10 years they're not getting very good value for money considering their phones are basically the same pieces of crap they were 10 years ago! Shit design, no innovation and as robust as a freshly baked souffle What a pathetic company. They claim to have patents over network "standards"...hello....







    Nokia (among others) CREATED (and patented) parts of the network "standards"

    For example the enhanced full rate codec voice codec in use in all mobile phones today, it was patented in 1995. "Enhanced Full Rate was developed by Nokia and the University of Sherbrooke (Canada) In 1995, ETSI has selected the Enhanced Full Rate voice codec as the industry standard codec for GSM/DCS" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_full_rate



    They did not spend $60 billion in handset R&D, Nokia is on of the driving forces of the infrastructure technology and hold 100s of patents in this area. From parts of the packet data structure (wireless internet) for example: http://www.wikipatents.com/6701155.html

    Voice and Video codecs, downloadable ringtones and even the so praised Mobil App store was patented many years ago.
  • Reply 64 of 73
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Hmmm... interesting:-



    "For some Nokia phones you can configure the use of this codec:

    To activate EFR codec use enter the following code: *3370#

    To deactivate EFR codec use enter the following code: #3370#"




    From the article you linked to it seems you can turn it on and off, I guess that means you wouldn't really have to use it, so maybe Apple doesn't.



    That's the reason they have courts, to sort out questions like this.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rj305 View Post


    Nokia (among others) CREATED (and patented) parts of the network "standards"

    For example the enhanced full rate codec voice codec in use in all mobile phones today, it was patented in 1995. "Enhanced Full Rate was developed by Nokia and the University of Sherbrooke (Canada) In 1995, ETSI has selected the Enhanced Full Rate voice codec as the industry standard codec for GSM/DCS" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_full_rate



    They did not spend $60 billion in handset R&D, Nokia is on of the driving forces of the infrastructure technology and hold 100s of patents in this area. From parts of the packet data structure (wireless internet) for example: http://www.wikipatents.com/6701155.html

    Voice and Video codecs, downloadable ringtones and even the so praised Mobil App store was patented many years ago.



  • Reply 65 of 73
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Hmmm... interesting:-



    "For some Nokia phones you can configure the use of this codec:

    To activate EFR codec use enter the following code: *3370#

    To deactivate EFR codec use enter the following code: #3370#"




    From the article you linked to it seems you can turn it on and off, I guess that means you wouldn't really have to use it, so maybe Apple doesn't.



    That's the reason they have courts, to sort out questions like this.



    Here is the list of complaints



    http://www.intomobile.com/2009/10/25...iolations.html
  • Reply 66 of 73
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Picture this scene, in a court a Nokia expert witness in the stand.



    Apple counsel, "Would you explain what these are"



    Presents following to the court.



    "For some Nokia phones you can configure the use of this codec:

    To activate EFR codec use enter the following code: *3370#

    To deactivate EFR codec use enter the following code: #3370#"



    Nokia expert: "that's a code to disable EFR"



    Apple counsel: "So a cellphone is functional without using the EFR codec?"



    Nokia expert: "Yes"



    Apple counsel: So in other words the Nokia EFR codec is not "essential to the standards" as is alleged in the complaint.



    Nokia expert: ???







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Here is the list of complaints



    http://www.intomobile.com/2009/10/25...iolations.html



  • Reply 67 of 73
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Picture this scene, in a court a Nokia expert witness in the stand.



    Apple counsel, "Would you explain what these are"



    Presents following to the court.



    "For some Nokia phones you can configure the use of this codec:

    To activate EFR codec use enter the following code: *3370#

    To deactivate EFR codec use enter the following code: #3370#"



    Nokia expert: "that's a code to disable EFR"



    Apple counsel: "So a cellphone is functional without using the EFR codec?"



    Nokia expert: "Yes"



    Apple counsel: So in other words the Nokia EFR codec is not "essential to the standards" as is alleged in the complaint.



    Nokia expert: ???



    Did you read the link, because the way you are just going on about EFR I don't think you did...



    And that EFR thing is old, the codes don't work on newer phones
  • Reply 68 of 73
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Using the EFR codec is one of the patents under dispute.



    I believe it's paragraph 80, 81...



    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21458614/N...pple-Complaint



    So the NOKIA codecs don't work on newer phone's, so there are others?



    Not licensed by Nokia perhaps?



    Maybe Ericsson and Qualcomm who Apple does have licence agreements with, or maybe Apple came up with their own, they have done a little bit of work with codecs, you know.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Did you read the link, because the way you are just going on about EFR I don't think you did...



    And that EFR thing is old, the codes don't work on newer phones



  • Reply 69 of 73
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Using the EFR codec is one of the patents under dispute.



    I believe it's paragraph 80, 81...



    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21458614/N...pple-Complaint



    So the NOKIA codecs don't work on newer phone's, so there are others?



    Not licensed by Nokia perhaps?



    Maybe Ericsson and Qualcomm who Apple does have licence agreements with, or maybe Apple came up with their own, they have done a little bit of work with codecs, you know.



    You really need to learn to read, I said the codes don't work anymore, ie the feature is on all the time.



    And remember, these aren't kids arguing in the playground, these are large corporations, they do their homework, they don't just start sueing other companies to fill in the day
  • Reply 70 of 73
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Whether those codes work or not anymore isn't the issue, what they prove beyond any doubt, is that a cellphone will still work on a cellular network without using Nokia's patented technology.



    A side issue would be whether those codes were working at the time of the granting of the patent.



    Which seems somewhat contrary to the opening paragraphs of the actual complaint where Nokia attempts to portray it's patented technology as being essential in order for GSM technology to function.



    Apple also pay licence fees, they don't just withhold them to fill in the day.



    Anyway I'm not a lawyer or expert, I'm just presenting a hypothetical situation of how parts of a trial may proceed.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    You really need to learn to read, I said the codes don't work anymore, ie the feature is on all the time.



    And remember, these aren't kids arguing in the playground, these are large corporations, they do their homework, they don't just start sueing other companies to fill in the day



  • Reply 71 of 73
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Whether those codes work or not anymore isn't the issue, what they prove beyond any doubt, is that a cellphone will still work on a cellular network without using Nokia's patented technology.



    I have sent an email to Apple, they should be in contact shortly to help with their defense...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    A side issue would be whether those codes were working at the time of the granting of the patent.



    The codes don't mean anything, they were just a way of turning on, or off a piece of technology that Nokia has the patent for. You are reading too much into the codes.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Which seems somewhat contrary to the opening paragraphs of the actual complaint where Nokia attempts to portray it's patented technology as being essential in order for GSM technology to function.



    Apple also pay licence fees, they don't just withhold them to fill in the day.



    Apple must not be paying the licence fee, hence why they are being sued.
  • Reply 72 of 73
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Apple have paid licence fees, just not to Nokia.



    Perhaps the licence fees they paid to Ericsson and Qualcomm cover the way the iPhone works along with the technology they developed themselves.



    I guess like everyone else we'll just have to wait to see what becomes of Nokia's allegations.



    Hey do you think any of these cases will make it over to Europe?



    Nokia's contention that it is impossible to build a cellphone without using their IP, might run into anti-trust issues.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Apple must not be paying the licence fee, hence why they are being sued.



  • Reply 73 of 73
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Hey do you think any of these cases will make it over to Europe?



    Maybe, I suppose it depends on how they do in the US



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Nokia's contention that it is impossible to build a cellphone without using their IP, might run into anti-trust issues.



    No, it would only be a anti-trust situation if they refused to licence the technology to anyone, which is not the case.
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