I live in Japan, RFID w/ or wo/ keitai is VERY VERY widely used. Suica, Edy and others for conact-less payment.
As for mobile TV, not as ubiquitious as providers would have liked but this more due to cost and quality. I see several people daily on my train commute, especially in the evening. More if a big sporting event is on.
And the last point you are WRONG on is how behind the US. Infrastructure is. Across the board, be it telecomms, roads and bridges, electrical grid, health care, you name it, America beats its chest while the country crumbles
Another first-post poster who doesn't know anything. All the statistics talking about how widely cell phones with digital wallets are in Japan --- are just that --- statistics. The actual number of people who actually uses it are quite low.
Not "ubiquitious"? Just look at the Koreans --- those companies can't even afford to pay their bills to the subway companies.
The Japanese government owns 1/3 of NTT --- makes their telecom policies difficult to compare. There are more bridges to nowhere in Japan than in the US. Electric grid has been compromised by numerous nuclear power station scandals. Health care --- you have to credit to traditional Japanese diet with rice and living in an island (seafood) for making their people healthier from the start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel
The only nerds who really hate RFID are the type of nerds who don't actually know anything -- these are the dungeons and dragons playing, HAM radio operating buffoons that make the rest of us look bad.
RFID has private key challenge-response security already. It is vastly more secure than your magstripe credit card. It is also standardized by ISO -- kind of a big deal.
So how many people drive a car, or ride in cars driven by others? Cars are inherently more dangerous than walking (your chance of death increases exponentially), but we still use them.
The RFID fears seem overblown given the fact that we currently know nothing about the system Apple is looking at introducing.
You only need to know one thing --- millions of people jailbreak their iphones.
Doesn't matter how much security Apple is making on their system --- you jailbreak your iphone, you leave a huge security vulnerability on your cell phone.
The problem will come from the iphone jailbreaking and the recent jailbreak hostage situation asking for $5 ransom.
In all fairness, the ransom message wasn?t really a ransom or a popup message, it was a change of the wallpaper to give it that appearance. There was nothing held so the ransom requirement was just a ruse. However, the hacker did have access to the root of the device and could have done deleted filed or stolen data.
More importantly, the hacker wasn?t able to gain access simply because it was jailbroken. His access was had because people also turned on SSH -AND- failed to change the root password from the default. This kid may have inadvertently done jailbreakers a favour in the sense that he was not malicious. Who knows how many phones have been access and data stolen for the past two years with this attack.
Besides changing my root password, I also keep SSH disabled until needed.
to read this, post your own reply, buy a bus pass or own a car, rent an apartment, or own a house, buy something from a store, take a flight on a plane, carry a cell phone, have GPS in your car, or what ever else you do or buy means you already have been tracked down and if the governent wants to find you they will. How many times have our faces been recorded by camera? The only way I can see getting away from being tracked is walk to the nearest mountain with a blanket over your head and hunt your food off the land. But make sure you don't need a hunting permit.
Another first-post poster who doesn't know anything. All the statistics talking about how widely cell phones with digital wallets are in Japan --- are just that --- statistics. The actual number of people who actually uses it are quite low.
Refuting statistics because they're just -- statistics -- seems like a dump approach.
RFID cards in hong kong using the Octopus plan "are used by 95 percent of the population of Hong Kong aged 16 to 65".
More specificially, your statement refers to digital wallet use on cellphones in Japan. Adoption there may not be the best indicator of potential, as "Japan remains a consumer society that culturally is attached to use of cash," one report says. Nevertheless, some extrapolation is possible:
In a 2007 survey, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with the digital wallet feature.
Only about a third of those had used the feature, mostly to get cash. The most frequent reasons for not using the feature were not knowing it was available, not knowing how to use it, or believing it would be quicker to pay with cash.
But at least a third wanted to use the feature more in the future, most often for buying transport or movie tickets or paying at restaurants.
So -- back to you observation -- what's the actual number of people who actually use it? Someone probably can find a simple survey that shows precisely. Lacking that, I'm left to extrapolate:
1. 127 million people in japan in 2008
2. In 2007 1/3 of elementary students and more than 50% of middle school students had cellphones. To be very conservative, let's say only one-third of the japanese have cellphones. 1/3 x 127 million equals 42 million people.
3. In 2007, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with digital wallet capabilities. That results in about 12 million people with that phone capability. (and remember, that was based on data collected more than TWO years ago)
4. Also in the earlier survey, one third had used, and one third wanted to use, that feature. 1/3 x 12M = 4 million digital wallet users.
I have no idea how accurate that is. But it's an estimate based on a transparent methodology. I guess we can debate whether 4 million (or whatever the real number is) constitutes a lot of digital wallet users. I don't think, though, that your "quite low" characterization holds up against millions of users.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I'd rather someone posted more specific info. But the TOPIC is both interesting and pertinent to changes that might occur in U.S. cellphone and POS methods, so i think it warrants further exploration here.
Current RFID technology is not at a point where you could track anyone's location at all times.
If you could - I wonder what the 11 people whose bodies were found in a house not too far from here would have to say about it if there had been a way for someone to know where they were between the time they first came into contact with a registered sex-offender and the time they were killed.
Unless you want to go live in the woods and have some way to earn cash for anything you might need to buy - then your whereabouts are already being tracked by various corporate and government agencies. While I do see that there can be a tipping point at which information gathered for one purpose can be used for entirely different, unintended, and possibly unwanted reasons - i do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories that our government has some sinister plan to ruin my life by tracking how many boxes of pop tarts I buy in a given month.
At some point in the not too distant future it will be possible to run a real time DNA scan on anyone anywhere with a small handheld device - ever see the movie GATTACA? - it would not take long to build a national database without needing to proactively have everyone volunteer for a screening if the data is being collected incidentally - what are you going to do then to protect your privacy?
RFID - as with pretty much anything - is not itself inherently bad or evil or wrong etc - it is information - what we choose to do with that information will ultimately determine whether it is helping or hurting us. Imagine a case where you are in a hospital unconscious and your personal RFID tag allows the hospital to know who you are and that you are allergic to penicillin - and someone brings a dose of penicillin into your room, which also has an RFID tag on it - and alarm rings altering the health care professional to your allergy?
Or a case where you loved one goes missing and an RFID scanner at a gas station - normally used for payment purposes - identifies your loved one and lets the police know.
Or a case where you buy an over the counter dietary supplement - get it home - and set it on your counter -the RFID tag tells your home computer what you bought - and also knows that you have a prescription in the cabinet which taken in combination with the dietary supplement can cause serious or even life threatening side effects - and you get an alert (email or text or whatever).
My wife's dog has an embedded RFID tag - which can only be read at about 6 inches or so (I think) - and if the dog ever goes missing and is subsequently found can be positively identified as hers.
Or a case where a company has RFID tags on al their tape backups - one of those tapes has your personal banking information on it - someone tries to steal that tape/data - and an RFID scanner detects the tag as the thief attempts to leave the building and the door auto locks saving you from being a victim of Identify theft.
Refuting statistics because they're just -- statistics -- seems like a dump approach.
RFID cards in hong kong using the Octopus plan "are used by 95 percent of the population of Hong Kong aged 16 to 65".
More specificially, your statement refers to digital wallet use on cellphones in Japan. Adoption there may not be the best indicator of potential, as "Japan remains a consumer society that culturally is attached to use of cash," one report says. Nevertheless, some extrapolation is possible:
In a 2007 survey, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with the digital wallet feature.
Only about a third of those had used the feature, mostly to get cash. The most frequent reasons for not using the feature were not knowing it was available, not knowing how to use it, or believing it would be quicker to pay with cash.
But at least a third wanted to use the feature more in the future, most often for buying transport or movie tickets or paying at restaurants.
So -- back to you observation -- what's the actual number of people who actually use it? Someone probably can find a simple survey that shows precisely. Lacking that, I'm left to extrapolate:
1. 127 million people in japan in 2008
2. In 2007 1/3 of elementary students and more than 50% of middle school students had cellphones. To be very conservative, let's say only one-third of the japanese have cellphones. 1/3 x 127 million equals 42 million people.
3. In 2007, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with digital wallet capabilities. That results in about 12 million people with that phone capability. (and remember, that was based on data collected more than TWO years ago)
4. Also in the earlier survey, one third had used, and one third wanted to use, that feature. 1/3 x 12M = 4 million digital wallet users.
I have no idea how accurate that is. But it's an estimate based on a transparent methodology. I guess we can debate whether 4 million (or whatever the real number is) constitutes a lot of digital wallet users. I don't think, though, that your "quite low" characterization holds up against millions of users.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I'd rather someone posted more specific info. But the TOPIC is both interesting and pertinent to changes that might occur in U.S. cellphone and POS methods, so i think it warrants further exploration here.
My brother had some fun going to McDonald's in Hong Kong and paid by Octopus. I am from Hong Kong, but have been living in Toronto for a long time now.
My point has been that most people don't look at the fine print of these statistics. 30% having a cell phone with digital wallet features is very different from 4 million people using it (which is like 3% of the Japanese population) --- that's a 10x over-statement.
My point is that Japanese and Korean phones --- supposedly years ahead of American cell phones --- are just loaded with features that aren't financially viable in the real world. But because either their governments forced them to do it (for technology export purposes) like mobile tv or that corporations have empire building embitions (why is Sony having a banking division?).
I think RFID would be an excellent addition. Especially when it comes to public transport - anyone used London's Oyster system? Very efficient. I've heard they're thinking of implementing a similar system in NYC.
People seem to think that the introduction of RFID will turn the west into some sort of giant police state - but the authorities can already track credit card purchases, can track your movement with CCTV, blah blah blah. The technology isn't the problem - its how its implemented. As for security when it comes to purchasing good using RFID i'm sure it would be easy to have some sort of PIN system, which is already pretty ubiquitous throughout the UK (and Europe...i think...)
It only seems logical for http://www.rfidreaderinfo.com to be incorporated into the next generation of iPhones. With the addition of RFID Readers in your cell phone you will be able to use your phone as a swipe payment and toll booth swiping. I think this is a pretty secure technology and it has been used in Europe and in Japan for a number of years. RFID tags are relatively cheap and low maintenance.
With an RFID Reader installed in the next generation iPhone you will have a lot of capabilities that are currently not available in the iPhone. The RFID tas will be able to improve payment, track assets, etc. Although there maybe more tracking with this phone the benefits outweigh the negatives.
It only seems logical for http://www.rfidreaderinfo.com to be incorporated into the next generation of iPhones. With the addition of RFID Readers in your cell phone you will be able to use your phone as a swipe payment and toll booth swiping. I think this is a pretty secure technology and it has been used in Europe and in Japan for a number of years. RFID tags are relatively cheap and low maintenance.
Provided that a PIN number or Password is required before each use (upload or download) of the RFID Reader, I'm all for it. I just don't want the thing on all the time, and I don't want even innocent marketing billboards to be able to read my phone, much less more nefarious entities.
Being able to use my phone as a credit card is awesome because the phone is a computer, and able to encrypt data. Being able to give $50 to my brother when he needs it, by tapping our phones together, or being within a certain range (I think the closer proximity needed for these things to function, the better - no more than 6 inches) would be of great benefit as well.
The key is being sure that security (encryption) and authorization (PIN/Password) are layers required for use. After that, I'm all for it.
Comments
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I live in Japan, RFID w/ or wo/ keitai is VERY VERY widely used. Suica, Edy and others for conact-less payment.
As for mobile TV, not as ubiquitious as providers would have liked but this more due to cost and quality. I see several people daily on my train commute, especially in the evening. More if a big sporting event is on.
And the last point you are WRONG on is how behind the US. Infrastructure is. Across the board, be it telecomms, roads and bridges, electrical grid, health care, you name it, America beats its chest while the country crumbles
Another first-post poster who doesn't know anything. All the statistics talking about how widely cell phones with digital wallets are in Japan --- are just that --- statistics. The actual number of people who actually uses it are quite low.
Not "ubiquitious"? Just look at the Koreans --- those companies can't even afford to pay their bills to the subway companies.
The Japanese government owns 1/3 of NTT --- makes their telecom policies difficult to compare. There are more bridges to nowhere in Japan than in the US. Electric grid has been compromised by numerous nuclear power station scandals. Health care --- you have to credit to traditional Japanese diet with rice and living in an island (seafood) for making their people healthier from the start.
The only nerds who really hate RFID are the type of nerds who don't actually know anything -- these are the dungeons and dragons playing, HAM radio operating buffoons that make the rest of us look bad.
RFID has private key challenge-response security already. It is vastly more secure than your magstripe credit card. It is also standardized by ISO -- kind of a big deal.
http://www.nfc-forum.org/
The problem will come from the iphone jailbreaking and the recent jailbreak hostage situation asking for $5 ransom.
http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/11...vulnerability/
If you jailbreak your iphone, you shouldn't even attempt to use such digital wallet feature in your iphone.
So how many people drive a car, or ride in cars driven by others? Cars are inherently more dangerous than walking (your chance of death increases exponentially), but we still use them.
The RFID fears seem overblown given the fact that we currently know nothing about the system Apple is looking at introducing.
You only need to know one thing --- millions of people jailbreak their iphones.
Doesn't matter how much security Apple is making on their system --- you jailbreak your iphone, you leave a huge security vulnerability on your cell phone.
The problem will come from the iphone jailbreaking and the recent jailbreak hostage situation asking for $5 ransom.
In all fairness, the ransom message wasn?t really a ransom or a popup message, it was a change of the wallpaper to give it that appearance. There was nothing held so the ransom requirement was just a ruse. However, the hacker did have access to the root of the device and could have done deleted filed or stolen data.
More importantly, the hacker wasn?t able to gain access simply because it was jailbroken. His access was had because people also turned on SSH -AND- failed to change the root password from the default. This kid may have inadvertently done jailbreakers a favour in the sense that he was not malicious. Who knows how many phones have been access and data stolen for the past two years with this attack.
Besides changing my root password, I also keep SSH disabled until needed.
Wake up people! You do NOT want RFID! Be sure to watch Aaron Russo's movie: America: Freedom to Fascism to learn why you don't want RFID!
http://freedomtofascism.com
Also see:
http://spychips.com
Wow! Thanks for those. I haven't seen that before. Seen Alex Jones' vids? Anyone who hasn't should.
to read this, post your own reply, buy a bus pass or own a car, rent an apartment, or own a house, buy something from a store, take a flight on a plane, carry a cell phone, have GPS in your car, or what ever else you do or buy means you already have been tracked down and if the governent wants to find you they will. How many times have our faces been recorded by camera? The only way I can see getting away from being tracked is walk to the nearest mountain with a blanket over your head and hunt your food off the land. But make sure you don't need a hunting permit.
Enjoy technology that's why your reading this.
Another first-post poster who doesn't know anything. All the statistics talking about how widely cell phones with digital wallets are in Japan --- are just that --- statistics. The actual number of people who actually uses it are quite low.
Refuting statistics because they're just -- statistics -- seems like a dump approach.
RFID cards in hong kong using the Octopus plan "are used by 95 percent of the population of Hong Kong aged 16 to 65".
More specificially, your statement refers to digital wallet use on cellphones in Japan. Adoption there may not be the best indicator of potential, as "Japan remains a consumer society that culturally is attached to use of cash," one report says. Nevertheless, some extrapolation is possible:
In a 2007 survey, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with the digital wallet feature.
Only about a third of those had used the feature, mostly to get cash. The most frequent reasons for not using the feature were not knowing it was available, not knowing how to use it, or believing it would be quicker to pay with cash.
But at least a third wanted to use the feature more in the future, most often for buying transport or movie tickets or paying at restaurants.
So -- back to you observation -- what's the actual number of people who actually use it? Someone probably can find a simple survey that shows precisely. Lacking that, I'm left to extrapolate:
1. 127 million people in japan in 2008
2. In 2007 1/3 of elementary students and more than 50% of middle school students had cellphones. To be very conservative, let's say only one-third of the japanese have cellphones. 1/3 x 127 million equals 42 million people.
3. In 2007, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with digital wallet capabilities. That results in about 12 million people with that phone capability. (and remember, that was based on data collected more than TWO years ago)
4. Also in the earlier survey, one third had used, and one third wanted to use, that feature. 1/3 x 12M = 4 million digital wallet users.
I have no idea how accurate that is. But it's an estimate based on a transparent methodology. I guess we can debate whether 4 million (or whatever the real number is) constitutes a lot of digital wallet users. I don't think, though, that your "quite low" characterization holds up against millions of users.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I'd rather someone posted more specific info. But the TOPIC is both interesting and pertinent to changes that might occur in U.S. cellphone and POS methods, so i think it warrants further exploration here.
Wake up people! You do NOT want RFID! Be sure to watch Aaron Russo's movie: America: Freedom to Fascism to learn why you don't want RFID!
http://freedomtofascism.com
Also see:
http://spychips.com
Current RFID technology is not at a point where you could track anyone's location at all times.
If you could - I wonder what the 11 people whose bodies were found in a house not too far from here would have to say about it if there had been a way for someone to know where they were between the time they first came into contact with a registered sex-offender and the time they were killed.
Unless you want to go live in the woods and have some way to earn cash for anything you might need to buy - then your whereabouts are already being tracked by various corporate and government agencies. While I do see that there can be a tipping point at which information gathered for one purpose can be used for entirely different, unintended, and possibly unwanted reasons - i do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories that our government has some sinister plan to ruin my life by tracking how many boxes of pop tarts I buy in a given month.
At some point in the not too distant future it will be possible to run a real time DNA scan on anyone anywhere with a small handheld device - ever see the movie GATTACA? - it would not take long to build a national database without needing to proactively have everyone volunteer for a screening if the data is being collected incidentally - what are you going to do then to protect your privacy?
RFID - as with pretty much anything - is not itself inherently bad or evil or wrong etc - it is information - what we choose to do with that information will ultimately determine whether it is helping or hurting us. Imagine a case where you are in a hospital unconscious and your personal RFID tag allows the hospital to know who you are and that you are allergic to penicillin - and someone brings a dose of penicillin into your room, which also has an RFID tag on it - and alarm rings altering the health care professional to your allergy?
Or a case where you loved one goes missing and an RFID scanner at a gas station - normally used for payment purposes - identifies your loved one and lets the police know.
Or a case where you buy an over the counter dietary supplement - get it home - and set it on your counter -the RFID tag tells your home computer what you bought - and also knows that you have a prescription in the cabinet which taken in combination with the dietary supplement can cause serious or even life threatening side effects - and you get an alert (email or text or whatever).
My wife's dog has an embedded RFID tag - which can only be read at about 6 inches or so (I think) - and if the dog ever goes missing and is subsequently found can be positively identified as hers.
Or a case where a company has RFID tags on al their tape backups - one of those tapes has your personal banking information on it - someone tries to steal that tape/data - and an RFID scanner detects the tag as the thief attempts to leave the building and the door auto locks saving you from being a victim of Identify theft.
barcodes are over 40 yrs old
i wish someone would update it to the modern world
One solution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code
And even that standard has been around for 15 years now!
Refuting statistics because they're just -- statistics -- seems like a dump approach.
RFID cards in hong kong using the Octopus plan "are used by 95 percent of the population of Hong Kong aged 16 to 65".
More specificially, your statement refers to digital wallet use on cellphones in Japan. Adoption there may not be the best indicator of potential, as "Japan remains a consumer society that culturally is attached to use of cash," one report says. Nevertheless, some extrapolation is possible:
In a 2007 survey, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with the digital wallet feature.
Only about a third of those had used the feature, mostly to get cash. The most frequent reasons for not using the feature were not knowing it was available, not knowing how to use it, or believing it would be quicker to pay with cash.
But at least a third wanted to use the feature more in the future, most often for buying transport or movie tickets or paying at restaurants.
So -- back to you observation -- what's the actual number of people who actually use it? Someone probably can find a simple survey that shows precisely. Lacking that, I'm left to extrapolate:
1. 127 million people in japan in 2008
2. In 2007 1/3 of elementary students and more than 50% of middle school students had cellphones. To be very conservative, let's say only one-third of the japanese have cellphones. 1/3 x 127 million equals 42 million people.
3. In 2007, 28.5% of people surveyed had phones with digital wallet capabilities. That results in about 12 million people with that phone capability. (and remember, that was based on data collected more than TWO years ago)
4. Also in the earlier survey, one third had used, and one third wanted to use, that feature. 1/3 x 12M = 4 million digital wallet users.
I have no idea how accurate that is. But it's an estimate based on a transparent methodology. I guess we can debate whether 4 million (or whatever the real number is) constitutes a lot of digital wallet users. I don't think, though, that your "quite low" characterization holds up against millions of users.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I'd rather someone posted more specific info. But the TOPIC is both interesting and pertinent to changes that might occur in U.S. cellphone and POS methods, so i think it warrants further exploration here.
My brother had some fun going to McDonald's in Hong Kong and paid by Octopus. I am from Hong Kong, but have been living in Toronto for a long time now.
My point has been that most people don't look at the fine print of these statistics. 30% having a cell phone with digital wallet features is very different from 4 million people using it (which is like 3% of the Japanese population) --- that's a 10x over-statement.
My point is that Japanese and Korean phones --- supposedly years ahead of American cell phones --- are just loaded with features that aren't financially viable in the real world. But because either their governments forced them to do it (for technology export purposes) like mobile tv or that corporations have empire building embitions (why is Sony having a banking division?).
People seem to think that the introduction of RFID will turn the west into some sort of giant police state - but the authorities can already track credit card purchases, can track your movement with CCTV, blah blah blah. The technology isn't the problem - its how its implemented. As for security when it comes to purchasing good using RFID i'm sure it would be easy to have some sort of PIN system, which is already pretty ubiquitous throughout the UK (and Europe...i think...)
It only seems logical for http://www.rfidreaderinfo.com to be incorporated into the next generation of iPhones. With the addition of RFID Readers in your cell phone you will be able to use your phone as a swipe payment and toll booth swiping. I think this is a pretty secure technology and it has been used in Europe and in Japan for a number of years. RFID tags are relatively cheap and low maintenance.
Provided that a PIN number or Password is required before each use (upload or download) of the RFID Reader, I'm all for it. I just don't want the thing on all the time, and I don't want even innocent marketing billboards to be able to read my phone, much less more nefarious entities.
Being able to use my phone as a credit card is awesome because the phone is a computer, and able to encrypt data. Being able to give $50 to my brother when he needs it, by tapping our phones together, or being within a certain range (I think the closer proximity needed for these things to function, the better - no more than 6 inches) would be of great benefit as well.
The key is being sure that security (encryption) and authorization (PIN/Password) are layers required for use. After that, I'm all for it.