They could make the screen smaller while keeping the same resolution. Just make the LCD more pixel-dense. They've done it before (on like the iPod Nano, right?).
They took out the WiFi antenna. That's basically like taking out a device using USB in your computer. It's pretty minimal configuration work for Apple, despite the fact that the government forced them to exclude WiFi from their phones initially.
It's a different phone for a different market. Once Apple made a different phone for a different market, you can't use the argument anymore that they wouldn't do that. Now you're reduced to saying "Apple will spend $X to custom design a phone for a customer, but won't spend $Y". Unfortunately, THAT argument is a lot flimsier than the "only one iPhone" argument.
How much would Apple spend? Well, you'd assume they'd spend less than they'd make. So how much would they make? Well, Verizon has about 100 million subscribers, and in the USA, Apple has sold over 10 million iPhones to ATT users. I'd say that assuming half that number sold to Verizon would be very conservative. 5 million times $500 per phone = $2.5 billion in revenue. At a profit margin of 50% that's 1.25 billion in profit. Do you think it would cost $1.25 billion to make the changes to the iPhone to make it CDMA? That's a pretty tough thing to imagine, don't you think?
Not saying it's going to happen, just saying that financially it's very easy to justify.
So if something costs $30 more, and Verizon pays $60 more for it, doesn't Apple's margin stay the same? (I have an economics degree, it's a rhetorical question)
Don’t forget this article reads that all iPhones would get the same HW. Even if we make the entire US, that means that Verizon has to pay for AT&T’s and maybe other carrier’s too, including the additional 5.5% licensing fee on the gross profit of the device. That makes this rumor seem very unlikely, IMO.
(too many threads to read all the back posts so if your comment was in response to something else, then my apologies)
By Q3 2010 the iPhone universe will be very different. All bets are off. I have no problem imagining multiple phones (iSlate, Nano etc) with multiple carriers.
So if something costs $30 more, and Verizon pays $60 more for it, doesn't Apple's margin stay the same? (I have an economics degree, it's a rhetorical question)
Based what others have told me, Apple uses a 40/60 pricing model, margin (60%)=Price(100%)-Cost(40%).
What your economic degree just told me is this
M P C
30 = 50 - 20
(60%) = (100%) - (40%) but now cost rises by 30 so now we just raise price by 30 to achieve the same results.......
60 = 110 - 50
(54.5%) = (100%) - (45.5%)
A 54.5% margin isn't the same as a 60% margin given this scenario. What did the Psychology degree teach the Economic degree this evening (other than I have to much time on my hands)?
With the WiFi ban about to be lifted I would expect that a driver and UI update will add the feature. I doubt that Apple re-engineered the logic board to remove the WiFi Chip, especially considering that the WiFI chip also contains BlueTooth+EDR+FM.
iPhonasia.com had someone examine the current China iPhone and it really is missing wifi hardware. They also reported a rumor that another version with the wifi hardware included is already in the works and will be for sale as soon as the ban ends.
I know that HTC's phones for both Verizon and Sprint are now Dual CDMA-EVDO/GSM-HSPA devices. And they use some sort of qualcomm chipset. However, it would cost Apple more at first as the global HTC GSM-HSPA unlocked versions as well as the branded AT&T and T-Mobile version are strictly GSM-HSPA and contain no CDMA-EVDO parts.
It would be frankly easier and make more sense to just add T-Mobile's 3G band and sell thru T-Mobile. It would be cheaper and be more useful in the future as AWS (the band T-Mobile uses for HSPA 3G) will probably be licensed out in Canada and South America as well and is already considered a potential LTE spectrum.
As I wrote in another thread, adding Verizon is Apple's trump card that they can play when the time is right. Maybe next July is the right time.
Also, there is a large market segment, people with smaller hands (think women primarily), who would like a smaller iPhone. Apple didn't make one before because they couldn't squeeze everything in, but maybe now they can. A 480x320 resolution on a 2.8" display isn't that bad, and the keyboard would still be usable for people with small hands. Of course, it would run all the apps unchanged. And it would be an additional model, not the only model.
iPhonasia.com had someone examine the current China iPhone and it really is missing wifi hardware. They also reported a rumor that another version with the wifi hardware included is already in the works and will be for sale as soon as the ban ends.
Do you have a link that explains the removable and states what the new Bluetooth+EDR chip make and model number are?
If you look at the diagram below you see that the WiFi is part of the Bluetooth chip and it connects with the GPS transceiver. Re-engineering this would not be an easy task. If they had to make HW changes removing the antenna, as mentioned earlier in the thread, may be enough to satisfy the ban. Of course the UI elements and drivers would not be included either.
Why would I want to move to Verizon? Their "unlimited" data plan has a limit of 5GB/mo. If I want to add tethering, I need to add another "unlimited" data plan (with another limit of 5GB/mo) for another $30. So, that gives me 2 "unlimited" data plans for $60/mo.
With Verizon, I risk paying a $350 termination fee if I want to cancel my plan.
Also, I am unable to make calls and access the internet at the same time (a CDMA restriction) and there are no plans to increase the speed. You have to wait until 4G is completely rolled out for faster access....many years away.
Even though there is much to complain about AT&T, at least they have the EDGE (2.75G) as a backup to 3G. The EDGE is 100% functionally equivalent to a 3G network (data and voice access at the same time)....only slower. AT&T will also roll out 7.2mbs and then 14mbs over the next few months. So at least they have an intermediate step until 4G is deployed.
Apple's 2010 fiscal year starts in October (not all company's financial books run from January to December - my company's 2010 financial year started in July).
Apple's 3Q2010 is from April 2010 through June 2010.
B.S. The next phone will be LTE capable for 4G roll out, not CMDA enabled.
It's not as if Verizon's entire network is going to flip a switch and instantly convert from 3G to LTE. Verizon's network is going to have to keep supporting older phones. And newer phones are going to need to be able to operate on the older CDMA network (or else have even poorer coverage than ATT).
So Verizon is going to to need phones that support both, therefore someone is going to have to make chips that support the legacy CDMA standard in addition to the 4G network. A phone that supports only 4G would be an ultimate fail for many years until 4G completely supplants the 3G network.
If this UMTS/CDMA hybrid chip is real, it would be a reasonable stepping stone to an LTE/CDMA chip. I just hope it supports CDMA 2000 1X Advance, which was recently approved. This would allow Verizon to make a relatively minor upgrade to their CDMA network and enable simultaneous voice/data.
Sounds like a nicely and strategically placed 'news' story from some 'friendly' sources to put a bit of a freeze on Droid-day....
No way CDMA. Makes no sense whatsoever.
I totally agree. Verizon has been dissing APple and AT&T left and right. We all know who that doesn't sit well with- the vindictive one- The CEO of the DECADE!!!!
I think its only inevitable. Apple cannot ignore 90 million customers forever. That's too much money left on the table.
.
There's nothing physically stopping those 90 million customers moving to a GSM/UMTS based network. There is however something stopping the most of the world moving to a CDMA network (in that, they don't exist in too many places).
Comments
Goodbye Palm
Goodbye RIM
Goodbye Nokia
Goodbye Motorola
Goodbye HTC
Goodbye Samsung
Goodbye LG
Goodbye... goodbye!
They could make the screen smaller while keeping the same resolution. Just make the LCD more pixel-dense. They've done it before (on like the iPod Nano, right?).
Yeah but fingers don't get smaller.
EDIT: Wow three posts at the same time...
They took out the WiFi antenna. That's basically like taking out a device using USB in your computer. It's pretty minimal configuration work for Apple, despite the fact that the government forced them to exclude WiFi from their phones initially.
It's a different phone for a different market. Once Apple made a different phone for a different market, you can't use the argument anymore that they wouldn't do that. Now you're reduced to saying "Apple will spend $X to custom design a phone for a customer, but won't spend $Y". Unfortunately, THAT argument is a lot flimsier than the "only one iPhone" argument.
How much would Apple spend? Well, you'd assume they'd spend less than they'd make. So how much would they make? Well, Verizon has about 100 million subscribers, and in the USA, Apple has sold over 10 million iPhones to ATT users. I'd say that assuming half that number sold to Verizon would be very conservative. 5 million times $500 per phone = $2.5 billion in revenue. At a profit margin of 50% that's 1.25 billion in profit. Do you think it would cost $1.25 billion to make the changes to the iPhone to make it CDMA? That's a pretty tough thing to imagine, don't you think?
Not saying it's going to happen, just saying that financially it's very easy to justify.
So if something costs $30 more, and Verizon pays $60 more for it, doesn't Apple's margin stay the same? (I have an economics degree, it's a rhetorical question)
Don’t forget this article reads that all iPhones would get the same HW. Even if we make the entire US, that means that Verizon has to pay for AT&T’s and maybe other carrier’s too, including the additional 5.5% licensing fee on the gross profit of the device. That makes this rumor seem very unlikely, IMO.
(too many threads to read all the back posts so if your comment was in response to something else, then my apologies)
So if something costs $30 more, and Verizon pays $60 more for it, doesn't Apple's margin stay the same? (I have an economics degree, it's a rhetorical question)
Based what others have told me, Apple uses a 40/60 pricing model, margin (60%)=Price(100%)-Cost(40%).
What your economic degree just told me is this
M P C
30 = 50 - 20
(60%) = (100%) - (40%) but now cost rises by 30 so now we just raise price by 30 to achieve the same results.......
60 = 110 - 50
(54.5%) = (100%) - (45.5%)
A 54.5% margin isn't the same as a 60% margin given this scenario. What did the Psychology degree teach the Economic degree this evening (other than I have to much time on my hands)?
Forget Verizon. I just want to know when the iPhone will be available from T-Mobile. When that day comes, I'll buy one.
Me too! Especially with their new talk, txt, data plans that cut the cost in half of what one pays with AT&T.
With the WiFi ban about to be lifted I would expect that a driver and UI update will add the feature. I doubt that Apple re-engineered the logic board to remove the WiFi Chip, especially considering that the WiFI chip also contains BlueTooth+EDR+FM.
iPhonasia.com had someone examine the current China iPhone and it really is missing wifi hardware. They also reported a rumor that another version with the wifi hardware included is already in the works and will be for sale as soon as the ban ends.
I know that HTC's phones for both Verizon and Sprint are now Dual CDMA-EVDO/GSM-HSPA devices. And they use some sort of qualcomm chipset. However, it would cost Apple more at first as the global HTC GSM-HSPA unlocked versions as well as the branded AT&T and T-Mobile version are strictly GSM-HSPA and contain no CDMA-EVDO parts.
It would be frankly easier and make more sense to just add T-Mobile's 3G band and sell thru T-Mobile. It would be cheaper and be more useful in the future as AWS (the band T-Mobile uses for HSPA 3G) will probably be licensed out in Canada and South America as well and is already considered a potential LTE spectrum.
Also, there is a large market segment, people with smaller hands (think women primarily), who would like a smaller iPhone. Apple didn't make one before because they couldn't squeeze everything in, but maybe now they can. A 480x320 resolution on a 2.8" display isn't that bad, and the keyboard would still be usable for people with small hands. Of course, it would run all the apps unchanged. And it would be an additional model, not the only model.
iPhonasia.com had someone examine the current China iPhone and it really is missing wifi hardware. They also reported a rumor that another version with the wifi hardware included is already in the works and will be for sale as soon as the ban ends.
Do you have a link that explains the removable and states what the new Bluetooth+EDR chip make and model number are?
If you look at the diagram below you see that the WiFi is part of the Bluetooth chip and it connects with the GPS transceiver. Re-engineering this would not be an easy task. If they had to make HW changes removing the antenna, as mentioned earlier in the thread, may be enough to satisfy the ban. Of course the UI elements and drivers would not be included either.
With Verizon, I risk paying a $350 termination fee if I want to cancel my plan.
Also, I am unable to make calls and access the internet at the same time (a CDMA restriction) and there are no plans to increase the speed. You have to wait until 4G is completely rolled out for faster access....many years away.
Even though there is much to complain about AT&T, at least they have the EDGE (2.75G) as a backup to 3G. The EDGE is 100% functionally equivalent to a 3G network (data and voice access at the same time)....only slower. AT&T will also roll out 7.2mbs and then 14mbs over the next few months. So at least they have an intermediate step until 4G is deployed.
Apple's 3Q2010 is from April 2010 through June 2010.
B.S. The next phone will be LTE capable for 4G roll out, not CMDA enabled.
It's not as if Verizon's entire network is going to flip a switch and instantly convert from 3G to LTE. Verizon's network is going to have to keep supporting older phones. And newer phones are going to need to be able to operate on the older CDMA network (or else have even poorer coverage than ATT).
So Verizon is going to to need phones that support both, therefore someone is going to have to make chips that support the legacy CDMA standard in addition to the 4G network. A phone that supports only 4G would be an ultimate fail for many years until 4G completely supplants the 3G network.
If this UMTS/CDMA hybrid chip is real, it would be a reasonable stepping stone to an LTE/CDMA chip. I just hope it supports CDMA 2000 1X Advance, which was recently approved. This would allow Verizon to make a relatively minor upgrade to their CDMA network and enable simultaneous voice/data.
No way CDMA. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Sounds like a nicely and strategically placed 'news' story from some 'friendly' sources to put a bit of a freeze on Droid-day....
No way CDMA. Makes no sense whatsoever.
I totally agree. Verizon has been dissing APple and AT&T left and right. We all know who that doesn't sit well with- the vindictive one- The CEO of the DECADE!!!!
I was gonna wait for the iPhone anyway, unless the droid absolutely blew me away.
Do I want the Verizon iPhone to be true? Of course. But not in this way.
I agree the 2.8" screen is BS though.
I'll be the first to call "bull" on this supposed new Verizon iPhone.
I think its only inevitable. Apple cannot ignore 90 million customers forever. That's too much money left on the table.
.
There's nothing physically stopping those 90 million customers moving to a GSM/UMTS based network. There is however something stopping the most of the world moving to a CDMA network (in that, they don't exist in too many places).
Why increase costs when you don't have to?