There are folks that are completely over-glorifying (as usual) their cause in the never-ending evil-Apple vs. Open Android debacle.
I was always wondering how updates to the Android OS would occur and from what the article states, my worries were justified.
If all the phone vendors will tailor / customize Android to their specific model, then Android will go down the same road and mess as the PC industry, the 100 flavors of linux, and numerous badly designed phone OS'es.
It's only a matter of time that users of a 1-year old Android phone will complain to their provider why they can't upgrade to Android version X only to realize that provider does not support their one-year old hardware and will not provide any OS upgrade path. Their phones will essentially be "disposable" hardware.
I'll take Apples "closed" ecosystem over Android's anytime. At least Apple does everything they can to provide a consistent and OS-upgradable path to all their iPhone generations and keep their users happy with new features and enhancements. I'm an iPhone 2G owner and still am impressed that they provide OS support. Let's see the Android makers support all the different flavors of Android that they are going to be hacking up to provide their version of a "unique" experience.
It's really obvious that you are new here otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to state the obvious. AppleInsider is to tech news what Fox News is to regular news.
Only difference: AppleInsider isn't claiming they're unbiased.
Why- am I mouse to your cat? I thought "Voice Commands" were standard on most phones since 2001. As I just got my iPhone in July I hadn't realized this was some woop-dee-do new feature with a new moniker "Voice Control". I hadn't realized Apple just got the memo in 2009- big deal!
I wasn't questioning you at all. I just responded to your initial posting before you revised it.
Another fallacy. Apple never rejected a 3rd party browser. Firefox doesn't have a mobile browser ready yet, and Opera decided not to attempt an iPhone port because it assumed there would be no market. And there isn't really: Safari is still the best mobile browser. Additionally, there are 3rd party browsers available for the iPhone using webkit. Search the store.
Correct me if I'm wrong but iPhone SDK doesn't allow using other framework than Apple's one. So, the only browsers you can develop are browsers using webkit and Gecko engine and Opera engine can't be used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockpop
I'd prefer knowing that third parties can't record my calls or do other adware/spyware stuff. On Android, you have to hope Google finds out about this before your data is stolen.
Correct me if I'm wrong but iPhone SDK doesn't allow using other framework than Apple's one. So, the only browsers you can develop are browsers using webkit and Gecko engine and Opera engine can't be used.
Gecko can't be used by default since it's much more than a web engine: It's a complete development environment including GUI toolkit, network handling, etc. Mozilla is close to releasing their first mobile browser (Fennec) and hell will freeze over before Apple allows it on the iPhone.
Or how Android allows developing apps that you can't even do on the iPhone without jailbreaking, such as call blacklists, call recorder, alternative keyboards?
I can't speak about all of your claims without checking up on them, but at the very least, there is a third party app for call recording.
The article mentioned Flash. But most people aren't clamoring for Flash games and Flash ads on the web. It's just pundits who don't really even understand what Flash is.
And from your comment, I can only assume that your one of those people who "don't really even understand what Flash is." It is more than games and ads. There are whole web sites that will not function at all or have extremely limited usability with the lack of Flash.
1. It's not possible to know (outside of Apple) how many apps have been rejected. Apple actually changed their iPhone developer agreement to prohibit developers from publicizing rejections (although some still do). It is impossible (again, outside of Apple) to know whether it is better to keep trying to resolve issues with the app store rejection team to get your app approved, or after trying for a month or two, going public to try to embarrass Apple into actually dealing with the problem. From the reports where developers "go public", it appears to help, as it seems to actually escalate the issue to someone who actually works with the developer to resolve the issues. Reports from developers who don't go public (who just publish a blog of their experience after the fact) seem to indicate that the front-line 'reviewers' (at least the ones rejecting apps for seemingly non-sensicle reasons), you (the developer) can't expect ANY movement from the reviewer. You have to make whatever changes they direct, and there is NO discussion/compromise on any issue.
2. The problem faced by other's trying to make a 'better' OS than the iPhone OS available for licensing by multiple phone manufacturers is that there's no money in it for anybody to provide upgrades. Google effectively has do it for free (update Android), just so manufacturers will use it in their phones (so Google can advertise on them). Microsoft licenses it, and doesn't provide free upgrades for major revisions of the OS. Phone manufacturers have no incentive to upgrade the OS for existing, sold phones unless there is a widespread problem with the OS (a vulnerability or significant problem that is actually being exploited) as again, it's work being done for free. They would much rather have you buy a new phone to get a new OS with new capabilities instead. And the carriers (who also 'work' on the OS by crippling it and/or making it so it points to using their services) also don't make any additional money by providing free upgrades to end-users. This free upgrade model only works for Apple because there isn't anybody between them and end-users (as in, they don't let carriers cripple the OS for the carriers benefit). Everybody gets the same OS.
Even in areas where Apple has chosen not to support a particular technology, such as third party background apps or Adobe Flash Player, it has introduced alternatives that blunt the impact of those missing features, such as its centralized Push Notification Server or support for H.264 YouTube streaming.
I'm not buying this obvious side-effect of the Reality Distortion Field. Push Notification Server is not Apple's solution to background apps, but a meager attempt at bandaging what is a serious lack of multitasking functionality.
Try using Skype on the iPhone, then let me know what happens when you receive that first phone call after it's launched.
No doubt you'll be pleased to know that "Pull my Finger" is available in the Android market along with many other similar applications.
If I remember correctly "Pull my Finger" was originally rejected by the App store but was approved after howls of protest from aficionados of fart Apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
Pleeze - 2 rejected apps! HA! Who do you think you're fooling? preposterous- don't you read anywhere else besides here? I just gave you a link for the latest one.
1. It's not possible to know (outside of Apple) how many apps have been rejected. Apple actually changed their iPhone developer agreement to prohibit developers from publicizing rejections (although some still do).
For a moment I thought perhaps I missed the update.
So I reread my initial iPhone SDK Agreement and the most recent copy I had on file. I couldn't find any reference to the changes you stated were made?
So, I logged into my ADC account and pulled off the most recent copy of the SDK Agreement. Turns out it id identical to our last filing.
Bottom Line: Your contention is bullshit. As is much of the rest of your posting in part 1.
I can't comment on the second part, as I have not bothered to read it.
Basically, they are using section 5.1 of the SDK agreement to keep rejection letters confidential, by explicitly marking the rejection letters as being confidential.
Then those websites are not targeted at mobile web browsing devices, any web developer worth his salt will provide alternatives for other platforms, specifically the iPhone which has consistently been shown to dominate mobile web browsing.
Flash 10 for mobiles hasn't even been released yet, Nokia's N900 will have Flash 9 support but this is incompatible with Flash 10, so again who should purely Flash based web site developers target?
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius
And from your comment, I can only assume that your one of those people who "don't really even understand what Flash is." It is more than games and ads. There are whole web sites that will not function at all or have extremely limited usability with the lack of Flash.
Basically, they are using section 5.1 of the SDK agreement to keep rejection letters confidential, by explicitly marking the rejection letters as being confidential.
It doesn't stop one from announcing that their app has been rejected.
Incidentally, the site you referenced was dated over a year ago and the Agreement re NON-CONFIDENTIALITY has been revised since.
According to Tom Richmond rejection letter of his MAD app, there was not mention of it being CONFIDENTIAL.
Right. I can't say I care about your list. But I'm sure you're right.
Quote:
... Android updates are delivered over-the-air automatically
However, that is interesting.
Quote:
Personally, I think a strong argument can be made for choice...
Oh, dear, this is the point at which my eyes start to glaze over. An iPhone is a choice, too, and if it's a better one, that's the one I'll make.
I think there's a certain type of American mind that throws words like "choice" down like magical tokens. (The same is done with "freedom".) Perhaps it's a relic of the Cold War ...
But we shouldn't stop thinking just because someone uses a talismanic word such as "choice". And we shouldn't assume that just because someone uses the word he's offering us what we want.
Now, some choices are meaningful: shall I listen to some quiet impressionistic piano music or to some rousing orchestral piece? Some choices exclude others: you can't serve two moods at once.
It seems to me it's just not like that with smartphones. They all do much the same. The only question is how well they do it. What this scenario might be about is: do I want a device that succeeds superbly at what it sets out to do, or do I want one of a set of devices that all fail in slightly different ways?
Am I supposed to be more likely to buy an Android device without a keyboard because I know I could have bought one with a keyboard? That just doesn't make sense.
Or is this some kind of ideological shibboleth? I buy an Android device, because I want to bathe in the warm glow that comes from knowing that Google is "serving choice" and I'm part of that? Maybe so that I can boast that I've done that. But that's just crazy.
Or maybe "choice" is supposed to be some sort of strategic advantage: because of choice Google gets to mop up people who want square devices really badly and people who will touch no device that isn't oblong ... or something. Well, good luck with that.
I don't own an iPhone. I use a pay-as-you-go but also have a Touch for the PDA stuff. But, while I'm sure you have put the journalist right on a few details, nothing you've said would convince me to buy an Android device, if I were in the market for a smartphone. You seem to be arguing for the platform, but all you can really say in its favour is that it offers "choice" -- so what? -- and not that it is in any way better than any rival -- iPhone, Palm Pre, whathaveyou ...
This is the kind of thing that matters -- Google only offering 256MB storage for apps:
I can tell you for nothing that if there were no other advantages enjoyed by the iPhone (and there are many) people will not be binning their iPhones any time soon in favour of a device that doesn't give them space to let them run all the apps they might want.
There are whole web sites that will not function at all or have extremely limited usability with the lack of Flash.
That's their problem. When you decide to code your site using a proprietary non-standard technology you run the risk of it being unusable by some (often significant) percentage of your visitors.
And then you have people like me, who tend to run with browser plugins turned off. That way I don't have Flash hogging the CPU, leaking memory like a sieve, or continually crashing my browser. Not to mention that most web pages load faster and that I'm spared seeing tons of animated Flash-based advertising.
And I most especially don't want it on my phone, swamping my 3G connection by downloading megabytes upon megabytes of "rich" advertising.
Flash sucks. Flash needs to go away. Far, far away.
That's their problem. When you decide to code your site using a proprietary non-standard technology you run the risk of it being unusable by some (often significant) percentage of your visitors.
And then you have people like me, who tend to run with browser plugins turned off. That way I don't have Flash hogging the CPU, leaking memory like a sieve, or continually crashing my browser. Not to mention that most web pages load faster and that I'm spared seeing tons of animated Flash-based advertising.
And I most especially don't want it on my phone, swamping my 3G connection by downloading megabytes upon megabytes of "rich" advertising.
Flash sucks. Flash needs to go away. Far, far away.
YOu're not even getting the full AI experience. AI uses flash- do you have a problem with that?
At the rate things are heating up and the press that the Droid phones are getting, Apple will probably release a major update in their OS. I believe this is why they bought PA Semi and mapping company Placebase. They will be able to have tighter control on how the maps work and possibly caching so that if you use it as GPS you won't have to worry about loosing signal. Even though Verizon has better coverage nationally, there have been issues where users loose the signal and have no maps.
Add to the fact that the 3GS really isn't a breakthrough product, but more of a stop gap solution. They have something impressive in the works. Why else would Foxconn badger one of their engineers who committed suicide after one of the 4G prototypes went missing?? There are also a slew of interesting patents that have been awarded to Apple in the past year, so for Verizon/Google it could be the Zune all over again, they catch up to Apple and realize that they caught up to last years Apple.
I do hope that Droid does better than the Palm Pre or the Blackberry Storm (ugh). The pressure keeps Apple innovating and listening to us, the users so that we can get the basics in our phone like cut and paste and more customization, or else we'll go somewhere else.
Apple is to be commended for its uniformity. But in that same token, because Apple controls everything, there's a lack of freedom.
"freedom, ah freedom, that's just some people talking."
and idealistic techies.
for every developer chafing at the bit over Apple's denial of their freedom, there's a hundred that just want to make a lot of money. sorry to break it to you, but that's the blunt truth.
techies/hobbyists want to customize their phones. i respect that. but the rest of us want to use our phones to customize our lives. the iPhone makes that easier - whatever it is or is not - than any alternative to date.
Comments
I was always wondering how updates to the Android OS would occur and from what the article states, my worries were justified.
If all the phone vendors will tailor / customize Android to their specific model, then Android will go down the same road and mess as the PC industry, the 100 flavors of linux, and numerous badly designed phone OS'es.
It's only a matter of time that users of a 1-year old Android phone will complain to their provider why they can't upgrade to Android version X only to realize that provider does not support their one-year old hardware and will not provide any OS upgrade path. Their phones will essentially be "disposable" hardware.
I'll take Apples "closed" ecosystem over Android's anytime. At least Apple does everything they can to provide a consistent and OS-upgradable path to all their iPhone generations and keep their users happy with new features and enhancements. I'm an iPhone 2G owner and still am impressed that they provide OS support. Let's see the Android makers support all the different flavors of Android that they are going to be hacking up to provide their version of a "unique" experience.
They just never learn.
It's really obvious that you are new here otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to state the obvious.
Only difference: AppleInsider isn't claiming they're unbiased.
Why- am I mouse to your cat? I thought "Voice Commands" were standard on most phones since 2001. As I just got my iPhone in July I hadn't realized this was some woop-dee-do new feature with a new moniker "Voice Control". I hadn't realized Apple just got the memo in 2009- big deal!
I wasn't questioning you at all. I just responded to your initial posting before you revised it.
No big deal.
Another fallacy. Apple never rejected a 3rd party browser. Firefox doesn't have a mobile browser ready yet, and Opera decided not to attempt an iPhone port because it assumed there would be no market. And there isn't really: Safari is still the best mobile browser. Additionally, there are 3rd party browsers available for the iPhone using webkit. Search the store.
Correct me if I'm wrong but iPhone SDK doesn't allow using other framework than Apple's one. So, the only browsers you can develop are browsers using webkit and Gecko engine and Opera engine can't be used.
I'd prefer knowing that third parties can't record my calls or do other adware/spyware stuff. On Android, you have to hope Google finds out about this before your data is stolen.
Like some applications in the App Store did?
Correct me if I'm wrong but iPhone SDK doesn't allow using other framework than Apple's one. So, the only browsers you can develop are browsers using webkit and Gecko engine and Opera engine can't be used.
Gecko can't be used by default since it's much more than a web engine: It's a complete development environment including GUI toolkit, network handling, etc. Mozilla is close to releasing their first mobile browser (Fennec) and hell will freeze over before Apple allows it on the iPhone.
Or how Android allows developing apps that you can't even do on the iPhone without jailbreaking, such as call blacklists, call recorder, alternative keyboards?
I can't speak about all of your claims without checking up on them, but at the very least, there is a third party app for call recording.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/recor...284428991?mt=8
The article mentioned Flash. But most people aren't clamoring for Flash games and Flash ads on the web. It's just pundits who don't really even understand what Flash is.
And from your comment, I can only assume that your one of those people who "don't really even understand what Flash is." It is more than games and ads. There are whole web sites that will not function at all or have extremely limited usability with the lack of Flash.
2. The problem faced by other's trying to make a 'better' OS than the iPhone OS available for licensing by multiple phone manufacturers is that there's no money in it for anybody to provide upgrades. Google effectively has do it for free (update Android), just so manufacturers will use it in their phones (so Google can advertise on them). Microsoft licenses it, and doesn't provide free upgrades for major revisions of the OS. Phone manufacturers have no incentive to upgrade the OS for existing, sold phones unless there is a widespread problem with the OS (a vulnerability or significant problem that is actually being exploited) as again, it's work being done for free. They would much rather have you buy a new phone to get a new OS with new capabilities instead. And the carriers (who also 'work' on the OS by crippling it and/or making it so it points to using their services) also don't make any additional money by providing free upgrades to end-users. This free upgrade model only works for Apple because there isn't anybody between them and end-users (as in, they don't let carriers cripple the OS for the carriers benefit). Everybody gets the same OS.
Even in areas where Apple has chosen not to support a particular technology, such as third party background apps or Adobe Flash Player, it has introduced alternatives that blunt the impact of those missing features, such as its centralized Push Notification Server or support for H.264 YouTube streaming.
I'm not buying this obvious side-effect of the Reality Distortion Field. Push Notification Server is not Apple's solution to background apps, but a meager attempt at bandaging what is a serious lack of multitasking functionality.
Try using Skype on the iPhone, then let me know what happens when you receive that first phone call after it's launched.
If I remember correctly "Pull my Finger" was originally rejected by the App store but was approved after howls of protest from aficionados of fart Apps.
Pleeze - 2 rejected apps! HA! Who do you think you're fooling? preposterous- don't you read anywhere else besides here? I just gave you a link for the latest one.
1. It's not possible to know (outside of Apple) how many apps have been rejected. Apple actually changed their iPhone developer agreement to prohibit developers from publicizing rejections (although some still do).
For a moment I thought perhaps I missed the update.
So I reread my initial iPhone SDK Agreement and the most recent copy I had on file. I couldn't find any reference to the changes you stated were made?
So, I logged into my ADC account and pulled off the most recent copy of the SDK Agreement. Turns out it id identical to our last filing.
Bottom Line: Your contention is bullshit. As is much of the rest of your posting in part 1.
I can't comment on the second part, as I have not bothered to read it.
For a moment I thought perhaps I missed the update.
So I reread my initial iPhone SDK Agreement and the most recent copy I had on file. I couldn't find any reference to the changes you stated were made?
So, I logged into my ADC account and pulled off the most recent copy of the SDK Agreement. Turns out it id identical to our last filing.
Bottom Line: Your contention is bullshit. As is much of the rest of your posting in part 1.
I can't comment on the second part, as I have not bothered to read it.
Sorry, my mistake. They didn't change the SDK agreement, but rather their rejection letters.
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/23/...ction-letters/
Basically, they are using section 5.1 of the SDK agreement to keep rejection letters confidential, by explicitly marking the rejection letters as being confidential.
Flash 10 for mobiles hasn't even been released yet, Nokia's N900 will have Flash 9 support but this is incompatible with Flash 10, so again who should purely Flash based web site developers target?
And from your comment, I can only assume that your one of those people who "don't really even understand what Flash is." It is more than games and ads. There are whole web sites that will not function at all or have extremely limited usability with the lack of Flash.
Sorry, my mistake. They didn't change the SDK agreement, but rather their rejection letters.
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/23/...ction-letters/
Basically, they are using section 5.1 of the SDK agreement to keep rejection letters confidential, by explicitly marking the rejection letters as being confidential.
It doesn't stop one from announcing that their app has been rejected.
Incidentally, the site you referenced was dated over a year ago and the Agreement re NON-CONFIDENTIALITY has been revised since.
According to Tom Richmond rejection letter of his MAD app, there was not mention of it being CONFIDENTIAL.
You have a few problems with facts here.
Well, it is Dan.
First, you are missing ...
Right. I can't say I care about your list. But I'm sure you're right.
... Android updates are delivered over-the-air automatically
However, that is interesting.
Personally, I think a strong argument can be made for choice...
Oh, dear, this is the point at which my eyes start to glaze over. An iPhone is a choice, too, and if it's a better one, that's the one I'll make.
I think there's a certain type of American mind that throws words like "choice" down like magical tokens. (The same is done with "freedom".) Perhaps it's a relic of the Cold War ...
But we shouldn't stop thinking just because someone uses a talismanic word such as "choice". And we shouldn't assume that just because someone uses the word he's offering us what we want.
Now, some choices are meaningful: shall I listen to some quiet impressionistic piano music or to some rousing orchestral piece? Some choices exclude others: you can't serve two moods at once.
It seems to me it's just not like that with smartphones. They all do much the same. The only question is how well they do it. What this scenario might be about is: do I want a device that succeeds superbly at what it sets out to do, or do I want one of a set of devices that all fail in slightly different ways?
Am I supposed to be more likely to buy an Android device without a keyboard because I know I could have bought one with a keyboard? That just doesn't make sense.
Or is this some kind of ideological shibboleth? I buy an Android device, because I want to bathe in the warm glow that comes from knowing that Google is "serving choice" and I'm part of that? Maybe so that I can boast that I've done that. But that's just crazy.
Or maybe "choice" is supposed to be some sort of strategic advantage: because of choice Google gets to mop up people who want square devices really badly and people who will touch no device that isn't oblong ... or something. Well, good luck with that.
I don't own an iPhone. I use a pay-as-you-go but also have a Touch for the PDA stuff. But, while I'm sure you have put the journalist right on a few details, nothing you've said would convince me to buy an Android device, if I were in the market for a smartphone. You seem to be arguing for the platform, but all you can really say in its favour is that it offers "choice" -- so what? -- and not that it is in any way better than any rival -- iPhone, Palm Pre, whathaveyou ...
This is the kind of thing that matters -- Google only offering 256MB storage for apps:
http://androidandme.com/2009/10/news...d-android-2-0/
I can tell you for nothing that if there were no other advantages enjoyed by the iPhone (and there are many) people will not be binning their iPhones any time soon in favour of a device that doesn't give them space to let them run all the apps they might want.
There are whole web sites that will not function at all or have extremely limited usability with the lack of Flash.
That's their problem. When you decide to code your site using a proprietary non-standard technology you run the risk of it being unusable by some (often significant) percentage of your visitors.
And then you have people like me, who tend to run with browser plugins turned off. That way I don't have Flash hogging the CPU, leaking memory like a sieve, or continually crashing my browser. Not to mention that most web pages load faster and that I'm spared seeing tons of animated Flash-based advertising.
And I most especially don't want it on my phone, swamping my 3G connection by downloading megabytes upon megabytes of "rich" advertising.
Flash sucks. Flash needs to go away. Far, far away.
That's their problem. When you decide to code your site using a proprietary non-standard technology you run the risk of it being unusable by some (often significant) percentage of your visitors.
And then you have people like me, who tend to run with browser plugins turned off. That way I don't have Flash hogging the CPU, leaking memory like a sieve, or continually crashing my browser. Not to mention that most web pages load faster and that I'm spared seeing tons of animated Flash-based advertising.
And I most especially don't want it on my phone, swamping my 3G connection by downloading megabytes upon megabytes of "rich" advertising.
Flash sucks. Flash needs to go away. Far, far away.
YOu're not even getting the full AI experience. AI uses flash- do you have a problem with that?
It's a windows world and flash helped design it.
YOu're not even getting the full AI experience. AI uses flash- do you have a problem with that?
It's a windows world and flash helped design it.
Add to the fact that the 3GS really isn't a breakthrough product, but more of a stop gap solution. They have something impressive in the works. Why else would Foxconn badger one of their engineers who committed suicide after one of the 4G prototypes went missing?? There are also a slew of interesting patents that have been awarded to Apple in the past year, so for Verizon/Google it could be the Zune all over again, they catch up to Apple and realize that they caught up to last years Apple.
I do hope that Droid does better than the Palm Pre or the Blackberry Storm (ugh). The pressure keeps Apple innovating and listening to us, the users so that we can get the basics in our phone like cut and paste and more customization, or else we'll go somewhere else.
Apple is to be commended for its uniformity. But in that same token, because Apple controls everything, there's a lack of freedom.
"freedom, ah freedom, that's just some people talking."
and idealistic techies.
for every developer chafing at the bit over Apple's denial of their freedom, there's a hundred that just want to make a lot of money. sorry to break it to you, but that's the blunt truth.
techies/hobbyists want to customize their phones. i respect that. but the rest of us want to use our phones to customize our lives. the iPhone makes that easier - whatever it is or is not - than any alternative to date.