To me this is the last kind of big mystery about the purported tablet from Apple.
Will there be a stylus? It's so *not* Apple to have a stylus, but the fancy patents they have that may allow them to do without one seem far-fetched.
If Apple can pull off a tablet that doesn't need a stylus to do ink input, it will go in the tech hall of fame. If they merely produce a tablet without a stylus and tell us we don't need ink input, there will be disappointment. If on the third hand, they produce a tablet with a gimmicky plastic stylus in a hole on the side it will be a similar letdown for many.
It will be real interesting to see what they do here.
It it includes any kind of writing or drawing functionality I think it will have to, unless you're Tekstud who uses his fingers. There may of course be more than one tablet, for different uses. A media player tablet won't need a stylus, but a full tablet computer probably would.
As I posted above, I believe apple can change the sharpness through software.
A better stylus could be designed with a sharper point, say 5-10 pixel radius. Stylus (pen) pressure could be measured and sent by BlueTooth.
The "Tablet" could detect the presence of the stylus and automatically switch into precision, single-touch mode (vs finger multi-touch mode),
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Yes, I also expect apple to take advantage of software, in some fashion, when and if they implement a new standard for stylus design when the tablet debuts.
Actually, if you step back and think about it a smaller device is where you would want finer control, wouldn't you? A larger device you could scale or make the sensitivity different based on the application you are in. Why couldn't you use your finger and have a finer control? Think like Photoshop paintbrushes or pens, you can change the point size, I would imagine the same could be done on a tablet.
A finger or virtual pen would probably be OK on a larger surface [than the iPhone] like a tablet.
The biggest disadvantage is that your finger(s) would block the point being drawn from view. This could be mitigated by displaying the ink (drawing points) offset from the finger(s)-- similar to the way the loupe offsets the finger when selecting text.
With a more natural implementation (than the current loupe) it would be fairly easy to become proficient writing with a finger or virtual pen.
Actually, if you step back and think about it a smaller device is where you would want finer control, wouldn't you? Why couldn't you use your finger and have a finer control?
I don't know how you could get more point-accurate than using a fine-pointed stylus device. Maybe it's just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
The biggest disadvantage is that your finger(s) would block the point being drawn from view.
This was the point I was hinting at in my post above. Plus, the tablet I'm sure will be high gloss. As if the current touch and iPhone don't attract enough smudges, I can only imagine what people will say when they have to write using their fingers and the entire tablet screen is left with nasty, oily smudges marks. Writing with a pen type device is natural for all of us, not to mention cleaner. Plus, consider what it would be like for women who have any type of long finger nail. They would have to write using their finger in a heavily horizontal position.
This is great news! Hopefully Apple will allow PEN input along with FINGER input in upcoming tablets or iphones.
Finger input is fine for dialing the phone, and inputing just a little bit of text, but have you ever tried to type a couple of pages on the iPhone?
Worse yet, have you tried to do some serious graphics work on the iPhone. Awful. Not much better than finger paintings.
Writing with a pen is a natural way to input text. We have been doing it all our life. As is using a pen for graphics.
I hope Apple improves the options for BOTH finger and pen input.
I currently have a TABLET PC which I friggin love for doing graphics. Corel Painter is awesome on it. Too bad it is a PC with WinXP which sux. I would love to see a MacTablet with full OSX and pen input for serious graphics work NOT a 10" iPhone with only finger gesture input.
I know it is bad taste to link to a rival site, but Electronista has posted a version of the patent that includes a block diagram of the software and APIs. This may give some additional insight into Apple's plans.
This could be huge but I have to wonder about the tech used to detect the "pen". Will the tablet have a capacitive sensor for Touch and another to detect pen position? I just can't see a reasonably sharp pen being picked up by a capacitive sensor.
The one I have had both capacitive and digitizer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardyNH
I just got a Wacom graphics tablet and played with inkwell for a while, and it was terrible. My 11-year-old Newton that still sits on my desk has far better HWR than inkwell/Wacom combination. So yeah, it needs some updating.
I don't know how you could get more point-accurate than using a fine-pointed stylus device. Maybe it's just me.
That's my point. If you are on a smaller device you would want much finer control, but we don't have that with the iPhone. Why is it necessary for a tablet?
That's my point. If you are on a smaller device you would want much finer control, but we don't have that with the iPhone. Why is it necessary for a tablet?
Are you serious? Why would I want to pull out a pen just to use my phone?
The iPhone isn?t for handwriting or drawing, it?s a fraking phone. If I am using a tablet in class I can draw diagrams and complex calculations with ease with a capacitance pen. How exactly would I do that with my fingers? Why would I do that with my phone? Note, you can get a pen for use with the iPhone.
The pen isn?t required for the tablet, it?s an option for doing more precise work that people with tablets often do. I bet you said the virtual keyboard could never be a suitable replacement for a physical keyboard.
I'm glad to see them exploring this. A stylus, as an option, is a great thing. I've been thinking about this device and for me, unless it also includes 2048 levels or better of pressure sensitivity, it's not going to be very useful. With pressure sensitivity and a stylus, you could then paint and touch up photos in Photoshop, which is what this thing would be perfect for. Unfortunately, the iPhone OS is not up to the task, so unless it's running a slimmed version of OS X, I see this as sort of a dud out of the gates. Maybe eventually, as it matures, it will get more powerful and useful. We'll see.
Are you serious? Why would I want to pull out a pen just to use my phone?
The iPhone isn?t for handwriting or drawing, it?s a fraking phone. If I am using a tablet in class I can draw diagrams and complex calculations with ease with a capacitance pen. How exactly would I do that with my fingers? Why would I do that with my phone? Note, you can get a pen for use with the iPhone.
The pen isn?t required for the tablet, it?s an option for doing more precise work that people with tablets often do. I bet you said the virtual keyboard could never be a suitable replacement for a physical keyboard.
Yeah right, cause these tablets will be priced for students, riiiighhgggt.... BTW, isn't this a media tablet not a document based tablet? thats all I've been hearing about this device lately.
It's called the pogo stylus (and various other 3rd party solutions). And no, it won't be sharp. If anything, it will be "sharper" at least than the standard capacitive stylus but it certainly won't be as sharp as the average pen. It probably won't be sharp as even the old fashioned regular pen based stylus either.
If I'm going to be using a pen to supplement touch input it had better be able to zero in tighter than my finger otherwise I might as well use my finger. The whole point, for me anyways, of a stylus is to get fine input control you can't get with a finger.
Comments
Do we really want to go back to this old technology? Pens? Stylus? Aren't our fingers good enough?
You write with your fingers?
To me this is the last kind of big mystery about the purported tablet from Apple.
Will there be a stylus? It's so *not* Apple to have a stylus, but the fancy patents they have that may allow them to do without one seem far-fetched.
If Apple can pull off a tablet that doesn't need a stylus to do ink input, it will go in the tech hall of fame. If they merely produce a tablet without a stylus and tell us we don't need ink input, there will be disappointment. If on the third hand, they produce a tablet with a gimmicky plastic stylus in a hole on the side it will be a similar letdown for many.
It will be real interesting to see what they do here.
It it includes any kind of writing or drawing functionality I think it will have to, unless you're Tekstud who uses his fingers. There may of course be more than one tablet, for different uses. A media player tablet won't need a stylus, but a full tablet computer probably would.
As I posted above, I believe apple can change the sharpness through software.
A better stylus could be designed with a sharper point, say 5-10 pixel radius. Stylus (pen) pressure could be measured and sent by BlueTooth.
The "Tablet" could detect the presence of the stylus and automatically switch into precision, single-touch mode (vs finger multi-touch mode),
*
Yes, I also expect apple to take advantage of software, in some fashion, when and if they implement a new standard for stylus design when the tablet debuts.
Actually, if you step back and think about it a smaller device is where you would want finer control, wouldn't you? A larger device you could scale or make the sensitivity different based on the application you are in. Why couldn't you use your finger and have a finer control? Think like Photoshop paintbrushes or pens, you can change the point size, I would imagine the same could be done on a tablet.
A finger or virtual pen would probably be OK on a larger surface [than the iPhone] like a tablet.
The biggest disadvantage is that your finger(s) would block the point being drawn from view. This could be mitigated by displaying the ink (drawing points) offset from the finger(s)-- similar to the way the loupe offsets the finger when selecting text.
With a more natural implementation (than the current loupe) it would be fairly easy to become proficient writing with a finger or virtual pen.
Actually, if you step back and think about it a smaller device is where you would want finer control, wouldn't you? Why couldn't you use your finger and have a finer control?
I don't know how you could get more point-accurate than using a fine-pointed stylus device. Maybe it's just me.
The biggest disadvantage is that your finger(s) would block the point being drawn from view.
This was the point I was hinting at in my post above. Plus, the tablet I'm sure will be high gloss. As if the current touch and iPhone don't attract enough smudges, I can only imagine what people will say when they have to write using their fingers and the entire tablet screen is left with nasty, oily smudges marks. Writing with a pen type device is natural for all of us, not to mention cleaner. Plus, consider what it would be like for women who have any type of long finger nail. They would have to write using their finger in a heavily horizontal position.
Hmm? Windows Mobile never abandoned the stylus option due to accuracy it afforded etc.
Good to see Apple finally coming around again
Note: 3rd party (iPhone) capacitive stylus solutions not withstanding.
Do we really want to go back to this old technology? Pens? Stylus? Aren't our fingers good enough?
Finger-tip sizes aren't standardized, stylus/pen tips are/can be.
When accuracy is paramount, there simply is no substitute for a pen/stylus.
Finger input is fine for dialing the phone, and inputing just a little bit of text, but have you ever tried to type a couple of pages on the iPhone?
Worse yet, have you tried to do some serious graphics work on the iPhone. Awful. Not much better than finger paintings.
Writing with a pen is a natural way to input text. We have been doing it all our life. As is using a pen for graphics.
I hope Apple improves the options for BOTH finger and pen input.
I currently have a TABLET PC which I friggin love for doing graphics. Corel Painter is awesome on it. Too bad it is a PC with WinXP which sux. I would love to see a MacTablet with full OSX and pen input for serious graphics work NOT a 10" iPhone with only finger gesture input.
http://www.electronista.com/articles...t.finger.only/
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This could be huge but I have to wonder about the tech used to detect the "pen". Will the tablet have a capacitive sensor for Touch and another to detect pen position? I just can't see a reasonably sharp pen being picked up by a capacitive sensor.
The one I have had both capacitive and digitizer.
I just got a Wacom graphics tablet and played with inkwell for a while, and it was terrible. My 11-year-old Newton that still sits on my desk has far better HWR than inkwell/Wacom combination. So yeah, it needs some updating.
Yah, Inkwell not so hot for me either.
You write with your fingers?
Him? Probably. Fingerpainting is about his speed.
I don't know how you could get more point-accurate than using a fine-pointed stylus device. Maybe it's just me.
That's my point. If you are on a smaller device you would want much finer control, but we don't have that with the iPhone. Why is it necessary for a tablet?
That's my point. If you are on a smaller device you would want much finer control, but we don't have that with the iPhone. Why is it necessary for a tablet?
Are you serious? Why would I want to pull out a pen just to use my phone?
The iPhone isn?t for handwriting or drawing, it?s a fraking phone. If I am using a tablet in class I can draw diagrams and complex calculations with ease with a capacitance pen. How exactly would I do that with my fingers? Why would I do that with my phone? Note, you can get a pen for use with the iPhone.
The pen isn?t required for the tablet, it?s an option for doing more precise work that people with tablets often do. I bet you said the virtual keyboard could never be a suitable replacement for a physical keyboard.
This reminds me of Apple investigating superior mice.
Are you serious? Why would I want to pull out a pen just to use my phone?
The iPhone isn?t for handwriting or drawing, it?s a fraking phone. If I am using a tablet in class I can draw diagrams and complex calculations with ease with a capacitance pen. How exactly would I do that with my fingers? Why would I do that with my phone? Note, you can get a pen for use with the iPhone.
The pen isn?t required for the tablet, it?s an option for doing more precise work that people with tablets often do. I bet you said the virtual keyboard could never be a suitable replacement for a physical keyboard.
Yeah right, cause these tablets will be priced for students, riiiighhgggt.... BTW, isn't this a media tablet not a document based tablet? thats all I've been hearing about this device lately.
This tablet is looking more-and-more like a device I want to have.
Now that's the understatement of the decade. What Apple device isn't?
Yes Dave.
It's called the pogo stylus (and various other 3rd party solutions). And no, it won't be sharp. If anything, it will be "sharper" at least than the standard capacitive stylus but it certainly won't be as sharp as the average pen. It probably won't be sharp as even the old fashioned regular pen based stylus either.
If I'm going to be using a pen to supplement touch input it had better be able to zero in tighter than my finger otherwise I might as well use my finger. The whole point, for me anyways, of a stylus is to get fine input control you can't get with a finger.
Dave
I guess credit card companies wanted a better signiture from those modded touches that now serve as sales registers.
You sign for credit cards? how quaint...