Apple looks to improve pen-based input on tablet touchscreens

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I bet you said the virtual keyboard could never be a suitable replacement for a physical keyboard.



    And BTW the virtual keyboard isn't a replacement for a real keyboard. It's fine ona phone in which you are doing minimal entries. But then again, you can't create a document on the iphone anyway so I guess it doesn't matter



    Let me know how the virtual keyboard works for you when you spend all day typing reports, email, coding, or any other typing intensive situation. Then you can truly compare.
  • Reply 42 of 68
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    And BTW the virtual keyboard isn't a replacement for a real keyboard. It's fine ona phone in which you are doing minimal entries. But then again, you can't create a document on the iphone anyway so I guess it doesn't matter



    Let me know how the virtual keyboard works for you when you spend all day typing reports, email, coding, or any other typing intensive situation. Then you can truly compare.



    I bet I you type faster on an iPhone or even the Droid?s virtual keyboard than you can accurately type on a Droid?s physical keyboard. Being physical doesn?t mean it?s better.
  • Reply 43 of 68
    an apple tablet coming with something as archaic as a stylus? soemthing the fanboys on this site said was a deadend thing?



    that would never happen





    They will ship it seperately in aluminium, with a few black buttons and charge $19 for it
  • Reply 44 of 68
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    an apple tablet coming with something as archaic as a stylus? soemthing the fanboys on this site said was a deadend thing?



    You?re confusing two subjects. One is requiring a stylus like in current tablets in order to use the basic features of the device. The other having a capacitance stylus for things that a finger can?t possibly do. The UI for a tablet has to be reworked for the size, type and primary input method for the device.



    If Apple goes with Mac OS X then the device is a failure. If they go with a new GUI and a hybrid OS somewhere between the iPhone and Mac then you have a winner. A stylus won?t be required, but may be needed by certain types of users for certain types of apps, unless you think virtual finger painting somehow can work to draw intricate sketches.



    For instance, the iPhone OS having a capacitance touchscreen and UI designed for use with fingers, yet the touch PoS devices at Apple Stores will also have a stylus for signing of one?s name after the data has been quickly inputed by thumb typing and finger scrolling.
  • Reply 45 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    You?re confusing two subjects.



    do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something
  • Reply 46 of 68
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something



    oooh SNAP!
  • Reply 47 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    What do you eat with?



    Chopsticks.
  • Reply 48 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something



    I think solipsism understands where you're coming from, as do we all.
  • Reply 49 of 68
    FrogPad can also be a solution for quick on screen user input for Multi touch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te9O8HavQpQ
  • Reply 50 of 68
    no discussion on the fact that this is likely just aftermath of the Ipod touch POS devices being implemented in their stores now. We know it to have this feature. No reason to jump to conclusions, if you need to still, 'there's a mat for that'.



    If the tablet DOES get this feature, YAY. Multi-touch for 80%, pen for 20%, making notes. I would welcome this, but I'd be shocked if we get it. Along with the hints that this tablet would interact as an input device for desktops, I get excited it could be a WACOM tablet in its spare time.
  • Reply 51 of 68
    I for one am delighted to hear this. I've been going back and forth over buying a modbook now, vs holding out to see what this tablet turns out to be. Stylus input, (imo) means almost certainly that there will be some kind of drawing application on the tablet- be it by apple or third party. I know I'm 1% of 1% or the market that wants something like this, but I'm glad to hear that it'll be 10" (not a popular thing around here, it seems) and have at least some kind of stylus support. Yay for my digital sketchbook!
  • Reply 52 of 68
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


    So I guess now all of those who lambasted pen/stylus input because the iPhone doesn't support it will suddenly have a change of heart?



    Hmm? Windows Mobile never abandoned the stylus option due to accuracy it afforded etc.



    Good to see Apple finally coming around again



    Note: 3rd party (iPhone) capacitive stylus solutions not withstanding.



    Yes, people who think that a stylus on a phone is basically an irritant may well also believe that a stylus on a much larger screen makes sense. No "coming around" necessary.



    And WinMo is going down in flames, so probably not a great example of how to do it right.
  • Reply 53 of 68
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something



    See above. You really can't figure out how different UI conventions might work for different form factors?
  • Reply 54 of 68
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Yes, people who think that a stylus on a phone is basically an irritant may well also believe that a stylus on a much larger screen makes sense. No "coming around" necessary.



    And WinMo is going down in flames, so probably not a great example of how to do it right.



    He?s one of those ?all-or-nothing? type people. He can?t see that finger-based mutli-touch as the primary input method shouldn?t be the only input method. I bet he?d scoff at the idea of using a stylus to sign your credit card on the new iPod Touch PoS systems now used at Apple Stores. I wonder he understand that desiring a mouse and physical keyboard for notebook or desktop does not mean we would want one for a phone or tablet device.
  • Reply 55 of 68
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    He?s one of those ?all-or-nothing? type people. He can?t see that finger-based mutli-touch as the primary input method shouldn?t be the only input method. I bet he?d scoff at the idea of using a stylus to sign your credit card on the new iPod Touch PoS systems now used at Apple Stores. I wonder he understand that desiring a mouse and physical keyboard for notebook or desktop does not mean we would want one for a phone or tablet device.



    Yeah. Hey fanboys, you like a physical keyboard on your laptops, and yet you're OK with not having one on your phone. Hypocrites!
  • Reply 56 of 68
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Do we really want to go back to this old technology? Pens? Stylus? Aren't our fingers good enough?





    No, Fingers are are inferior to a sharp-pointed stylus. With a stylus, punching buttons on web pages needs no enlarging of the page. With a stylus, highlighting text for cut and paste becomes easy.



    The current implementation on the iPhone is suboptimal. If things worked with either a precision-pointed stylus OR a clumsy finger, we would be better off.



    But Apple has a "only one way" paradigm for its designs. Note that they could easily have allowed bluetooth keyboards, but chose to deny users that possibility. Same with a stylus. Same with the iSore - you can't install apps bought elsewhere without voiding your warranty.



    Apple says: "our way or the highway" to its customers, and that is one big reason why their products seldom achive anything more than niche-market status.
  • Reply 57 of 68
    Found this thread via google search on handwriting and capacative touch.



    I think there is now too much emphasis on the finger touch on a capacative screen. Sure, it looks fancy and magical perhaps, but in terms of functionality it is only useful for pressing buttons and scrolling. The finger is too big for handwriting or ink input, and perhaps drawing and sketching for that matter on a capacative screen in a mobile device. I am noticing this issue on my HTC HD2. The finger can be used for a coarse fine motor skills. But when it comes to handwriting/ink input, you need the fine motor skills pinching a pointy instrument. It is difficult to determine what the accuracy of the capacative screen is on the HD2, but wouldn't be surprised if it came near that of the iPhone. I tried a stylus for the iPhone, but the amount of intuitive response and accuracy of the device (the Pogo) leaves to be desired when it comes to ink input. There are companies out there that have already marketed inking on a capacative screen, like NTRIG and their Duosense pens. Looks very promising, if not one has to look out for vectoring issues. But it is a big step forward. If I understand the mechanics of capacative screens well, ink input should be possible on current devices. I understand it is probably a question of a sotware tweaking for increasing the touch sensitivity over a smaller surface area.

    It is great to hear the people at apple are seriou about adding ink input and functionality on the iTablet. This is a great improvement on the overal functionality of the screen. Handwriting and inking is not dead. Inking is useful only to a certain degree, and onscreen keyboards with thumb typing isn't something to write home about, certainly if it comes to ergonomics. I happened to find this article, which could perhaps shed light on the possibilities: http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/htc-b...-in-new-patent
  • Reply 58 of 68
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wevenhuis View Post


    Found this thread via google search on handwriting and capacative touch.



    I think there is now too much emphasis on the finger touch on a capacative screen. Sure, it looks fancy and magical perhaps, but in terms of functionality it is only useful for pressing buttons and scrolling. The finger is too big for handwriting or ink input, and perhaps drawing and sketching for that matter on a capacative screen in a mobile device.



    Snow Leopard adds Chinese handwriting on multi-touch trackpads which seems to work pretty nicely (not being a Chinese speaker/writer I dunno first hand). The trackpad area isn't much bigger than the iPhone.



    estroke and finger do so on the iPhone/iPod Touch.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJYHr9pW28



    Shows a fairly complex character input at the very end using finger input. Graffiti like input would be similar in complexity. No iPhone sized device will really let you write long enough to make real handwriting recognition work very well (when it works at all). You'd want to be newton sized even for a stylus based system.



    Here's a demo of the pogo stylus with the iphone. So much for the "one way" comment from "iGenius". If you want a stylus you can have one.



    http://whatseas.blogspot.com/2009/09...character.html



    http://thisfinger.com/support/snow-l...ll-need-finger



    It's like $15. I'd probably buy one for a tablet that was capacitance touch based if it wasn't included.
  • Reply 59 of 68
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Yeah. Hey fanboys, you like a physical keyboard on your laptops, and yet you're OK with not having one on your phone. Hypocrites!



    Uh...one is for content creation and the other for content consumption. How is this hard for anyone to understand? For a larger device (newton or above) data creation is an important aspect of usability. In terms of creating content the newton was better than the iphone.



    For a smartphone the primary desire is content display and navigation. Then the keyboard is just more weight and either takes up screen space or is a slidey thing that might break. The most I do on an iPhone is a quick draft for yelp or an email or a tweet.



    Maybe if there was a foleo/redfly type thing for the iphone I'd use it for data input (yes, the redfly can connect to the iPhone for video but not keyboard).
  • Reply 60 of 68
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Uh...one is for content creation and the other for content consumption. How is this hard for anyone to understand? For a larger device (newton or above) data creation is an important aspect of usability. In terms of creating content the newton was better than the iphone.



    For a smartphone the primary desire is content display and navigation. Then the keyboard is just more weight and either takes up screen space or is a slidey thing that might break. The most I do on an iPhone is a quick draft for yelp or an email or a tweet.



    Maybe if there was a foleo/redfly type thing for the iphone I'd use it for data input (yes, the redfly can connect to the iPhone for video but not keyboard).



    Dear Mr. Vinea,



    We have detected anomalies in your sarcasm detecting unit. Please recycle the power by unplugging the unit for 30 seconds.



    Thanks
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