i fear apple's 50 million user installed base will make all other app stores non starters .
and the nano phone will cut the legs out from the bottom feeders and the race to the bottom crew
just like banana rep took the high end gap took the middle and old navy killed off the low end junk ware guy's with cheap fine cotton clothes
apple is so great and hyper speed now that they are killing off markets before they even form
peace
9
50 mil is huge number, but is far from "market domination". Let's see where the market is one year from now. Apple still has great device, but others are catching up. Apple's "bitch behavior" is not a great starting position for the round two (next year).
Hero doesn't run on 1.0 Android it runs on 1.5 and HTC is working on 2.0 update. So no downgradw for Sprint Heros
Even if every device running Android can be upgraded to v2.0 and then to v3.0 it?s still not a simple, user friendly system like the one Apple and other who control the HW and OS integration offer. Having to wait months after new devices get the update is simply not good business. Can the HTC Dream/G1 released a year ago even get v2.0 without some massive hack to reduce the code base considerably?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless
50 mil is huge number, but is far from "market domination". Let's see where the market is one year from now. Apple still has great device, but others are catching up. Apple's "bitch behavior" is not a great starting position for the round two (next year).
I?d say next year is round 4 since that will be Apple?s 4th version of iPhone OS and their 4th device. They do have market domination in the areas that count. They have their mobile OS on the iPhone and Touch. They make money money than any handset vendor in the world. There phones use half the mobile data. They have the largest app store despite it being less than 1.5 years old. But most importantly, is that they have the mindshare that makes every phone be compared to the iPhone despite only coming into the market less than 2.5 years ago. That is big, and while they could falter there is more that enough momentum to push them along for several years and several iterations before they lose that ground. We can look at some of the other handset vendors to see how an archaic business model can sell push you along for some time.
50 mil is huge number, but is far from "market domination". Let's see where the market is one year from now. Apple still has great device, but others are catching up. Apple's "bitch behavior" is not a great starting position for the round two (next year).
Thing is, Apple's dreadfulness means nothing whatsoever to the people who matter-- consumers. The average iPhone buyer doesn't know a blessed thing about Apple's relationship to developers, they don't regard Apple as "controlling", they really could give a shit about the things that consume tech pundits and geeks.
They care about a device that works well and does what they want. In that, the iPhone is as good as ever, and will inevitably improve.
Even amongst developers this "Apple is satan" thing is wildly overblown, with just a handful making a lot of noise.
Meanwhile, the various iPhone killers have problems of their own, and of the sort that buyers actually notice. The Pre has taken to losing people's data, the Droid apparently has a pretty common problem with the battery door falling off, and sales of the latest Sony Ericsson wünder phone have been suspended in England because of intractable software problems.
There's a lot more to conquering the world than early buzz and a spec sheet, so, yeah, we'll see.
Thing is, Apple's dreadfulness means nothing whatsoever to the people who matter-- consumers. The average iPhone buyer doesn't know a blessed thing about Apple's relationship to developers, they don't regard Apple as "controlling", they really could give a shit about the things that consume tech pundits and geeks.
They care about a device that works well and does what they want. In that, the iPhone is as good as ever, and will inevitably improve.
I agree its customers who are the most important part. However, with all the success Apple had with iPhone, they are far from dominating the market and need help from third party : operators. If mobile operators turn to whatever "iPhone killer" because they seen enough of Apple's antics (and because those other mobiles are finally "good enough"....that's quite a key point), it will be difficult for Apple to sustain its growth.
However, with all the success Apple had with iPhone, they are far from dominating the market and need help from third party : operators.
They are dominating the profit marketshare of the entire worldwide handset market according to the latest stats. They seem to dominate the mindshare that any new smartphone is not only being models after the iPhone but also being compared to it over any other device. The Droid, Pre and every other high-end phone first coming to market in the US seems to have a carrier exclusivity attached to it so your claim that they are only succeeding because of ?help from third party: operators? is pretty weak. That isn?t even considering the fact that in countries with multiple carriers they can?t seem to keep them on the shelves. I don?t think Italy is still in god supply for this holiday season.
I agree its customers who are the most important part. However, with all the success Apple had with iPhone, they are far from dominating the market and need help from third party : operators. If mobile operators turn to whatever "iPhone killer" because they seen enough of Apple's antics (and because those other mobiles are finally "good enough"....that's quite a key point), it will be difficult for Apple to sustain its growth.
This might help the Android Market sales quite a lot. On the other hand, it is unlikely to come for AppStore.
The only carrier "problem" that I'm aware involves Verizon in the US, and there are plenty of reasons for the iPhone not being carried by Verizon beyond Apple's "antics." You could as easily say that it's Verizon that is prone to antics, which is why they're not getting a piece of the Apple pie. Certainly whatever the American T-Mobile elects to do isn't very important in the scheme of things, and the fact that a carrier wants in on some app store action doesn't seem like it's good for anyone but the carrier. "Carrier billing" for the App Store wouldn't be any kind of enhancement or improvement at all, just an unwarranted intrusion and an added layer of complexity.
In the rest of the world, there doesn't seem to be any resistance to partnering with Apple. Since the real growth of the platform is likely to come from sales outside of the US, Apple and Verizon not getting along is just a blip.
The only carrier "problem" that I'm aware involves Verizon in the US, and there are plenty of reasons for the iPhone not being carried by Verizon beyond Apple's "antics." You could as easily say that it's Verizon that is prone to antics, which is why they're not getting a piece of the Apple pie. Certainly whatever the American T-Mobile elects to do isn't very important in the scheme of things, and the fact that a carrier wants in on some app store action doesn't seem like it's good for anyone but the carrier. "Carrier billing" for the App Store wouldn't be any kind of enhancement or improvement at all, just an unwarranted intrusion and an added layer of complexity.
In the rest of the world, there doesn't seem to be any resistance to partnering with Apple. Since the real growth of the platform is likely to come from sales outside of the US, Apple and Verizon not getting along is just a blip.
Not really. There are operators (and big ones) through the world that offered subsidized iPhones but after the initial contract is over, they are turning to different options (such as Android devices). iPhone is still offered, but with no subside they are real expensive. In some markets, actually the prices of old model (3G) went up and new one (3GS) is now in luxury range. So what you don't consider as problem in the US, as the price of the iPhone 3GS is relatively low, might be a real problem for Apple in the coming period. And those 50 mils of units they sold doesn't really mean that much globally.
Not really. There are operators (and big ones) through the world that offered subsidized iPhones but after the initial contract is over, they are turning to different options (such as Android devices). iPhone is still offered, but with no subside they are real expensive. In some markets, actually the prices of old model (3G) went up and new one (3GS) is now in luxury range. So what you don't consider as problem in the US, as the price of the iPhone 3GS is relatively low, might be a real problem for Apple in the coming period. And those 50 mils of units they sold doesn't really mean that much globally.
I'm unaware of this phenomena, could you cite some particulars?
I'm unaware of this phenomena, could you cite some particulars?
Don't have an english language article about that which I can point you to, but you can check the prices of operators such as Vodafone or T-Mobile is several European countries through 2009 (especially when 3GS had been introduced).
Don't have an english language article about that which I can point you to, but you can check the prices of operators such as Vodafone or T-Mobile is several European countries through 2009 (especially when 3GS had been introduced).
The language doesn?t matter. We can get it adequately translated and words like Apple, iPhone and Android will be in English. So please, supply some links of mobile operators that will no longer be subsidizing the iPhone.
I don't really want to do a whole lot of research on this, but from what I could see, France and Germany are selling the iPhone for the equivalent of $199 US dollars, they've increased the subsidy in Spain, and there's talk of how Tesco getting the iPhone in Britain may spark a price war, so I'm not seeing this vanishing subsidy phenomena.
I did find an article from a year and a half ago talking about O2 floating the idea of raising the price of the iPhone, but their current prices don't reflect that. In fact, from what I can see, in most of Europe the trend has been toward the iPhone getting ever cheaper as it is opened up to more carriers, after being introduced at fairly high, unsubsidized prices.
Here in Australia iPhone's are offered "free" on contracts by five networks, they are treated exactly the same as any other phone, the only caveat is that they come on plans with data included.
Carriers are also offering Apps which utilise the in App purchase system introduced with OS3 to offer services like streaming video or GPS.
Carrier based billing for applications and services has been around for years the main problem, you change your handset you start again.
With the iPhone you can transfer your Apps from iTunes to a new iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
I don't really want to do a whole lot of research on this, but from what I could see, France and Germany are selling the iPhone for the equivalent of $199 US dollars, they've increased the subsidy in Spain, and there's talk of how Tesco getting the iPhone in Britain may spark a price war, so I'm not seeing this vanishing subsidy phenomena.
I did find an article from a year and a half ago talking about O2 floating the idea of raising the price of the iPhone, but their current prices don't reflect that. In fact, from what I can see, in most of Europe the trend has been toward the iPhone getting ever cheaper as it is opened up to more carriers, after being introduced at fairly high, unsubsidized prices.
[QUOTE=solipsism;1526443]Even if every device running Android can be upgraded to v2.0 and then to v3.0 it?s still not a simple, user friendly system like the one Apple and other who control the HW and OS integration offer. Having to wait months after new devices get the update is simply not good business. Can the HTC Dream/G1 released a year ago even get v2.0 without some massive hack to reduce the code base considerably?
Microsoft?s chief software architect Ray Ozzie recently told his audience that, among smartphone platforms, "all the apps that count will be ported to every one of them."
So all Microsoft apps and games that haven't been ported to the iPhone yet don't count?
So all Microsoft apps and games that haven't been ported to the iPhone yet don't count?
I think that, given how the smartphone app market is shaking out, it would be fair to say that any app that counts is obliged to be available on all the major platforms.
To the extent that WinMo apps and games haven't been ported to the iPhone, they don't count, QED.
It actually remains to be seen if WinMo, itself, will be counted among the major platforms.
Having recently purchased a Droid in hopes of it playing games on par to my iPod Touch I was upset when I read:
"Android's storage and system RAM starvation problem is so obvious and tragic for any hope of Android ever becoming a viable platform for real games that it simply strains belief that Google even considered that Android users might want to play real games on their phones."
Sounds good, but when you think about it this just isn't true.
First, we're referring to where the app is stored as the limitation... not the processing power of the device, its memory, its graphic capabilities. The claim is that because apps MUST reside in internal storage vs. the SD card and Apple so brilliantly soldered the SD card (or whatever memory) in place. COnsequently, our only hope is that Google 'fix' this and allow sizable apps to be stored on the SD card.
However, Space Physics, is a great example of an existing game that overcomes this limit by having a separate app install data on an SD card. Convoluted compared to not having to do this? Sure.
But what if an app, upon initialization, downloaded its data onto the SD card? Apps could have substantially more resources and it would be about as automatic as on the iPod Touch. Yes, I know... the dev has to host these data files somewhere.
Sure, ideally Google fixing the issue would be best, but intelligent devs can work around trivial issues like getting resource data onto the SD card.
Right now the Android's biggest problem is the install base and how many people are actively buying apps and thus attracting development.
Comments
The recent firmware update was rumored to have an upgrade, but it runs on the same 1.0 version.
Hero doesn't run on 1.0 Android it runs on 1.5 and HTC is working on 2.0 update. So no downgradw for Sprint Heros
again great sane points
thanks dude
i fear apple's 50 million user installed base will make all other app stores non starters .
and the nano phone will cut the legs out from the bottom feeders and the race to the bottom crew
just like banana rep took the high end gap took the middle and old navy killed off the low end junk ware guy's with cheap fine cotton clothes
apple is so great and hyper speed now that they are killing off markets before they even form
peace
9
50 mil is huge number, but is far from "market domination". Let's see where the market is one year from now. Apple still has great device, but others are catching up. Apple's "bitch behavior" is not a great starting position for the round two (next year).
Hero doesn't run on 1.0 Android it runs on 1.5 and HTC is working on 2.0 update. So no downgradw for Sprint Heros
Even if every device running Android can be upgraded to v2.0 and then to v3.0 it?s still not a simple, user friendly system like the one Apple and other who control the HW and OS integration offer. Having to wait months after new devices get the update is simply not good business. Can the HTC Dream/G1 released a year ago even get v2.0 without some massive hack to reduce the code base considerably?
50 mil is huge number, but is far from "market domination". Let's see where the market is one year from now. Apple still has great device, but others are catching up. Apple's "bitch behavior" is not a great starting position for the round two (next year).
I?d say next year is round 4 since that will be Apple?s 4th version of iPhone OS and their 4th device. They do have market domination in the areas that count. They have their mobile OS on the iPhone and Touch. They make money money than any handset vendor in the world. There phones use half the mobile data. They have the largest app store despite it being less than 1.5 years old. But most importantly, is that they have the mindshare that makes every phone be compared to the iPhone despite only coming into the market less than 2.5 years ago. That is big, and while they could falter there is more that enough momentum to push them along for several years and several iterations before they lose that ground. We can look at some of the other handset vendors to see how an archaic business model can sell push you along for some time.
50 mil is huge number, but is far from "market domination". Let's see where the market is one year from now. Apple still has great device, but others are catching up. Apple's "bitch behavior" is not a great starting position for the round two (next year).
Thing is, Apple's dreadfulness means nothing whatsoever to the people who matter-- consumers. The average iPhone buyer doesn't know a blessed thing about Apple's relationship to developers, they don't regard Apple as "controlling", they really could give a shit about the things that consume tech pundits and geeks.
They care about a device that works well and does what they want. In that, the iPhone is as good as ever, and will inevitably improve.
Even amongst developers this "Apple is satan" thing is wildly overblown, with just a handful making a lot of noise.
Meanwhile, the various iPhone killers have problems of their own, and of the sort that buyers actually notice. The Pre has taken to losing people's data, the Droid apparently has a pretty common problem with the battery door falling off, and sales of the latest Sony Ericsson wünder phone have been suspended in England because of intractable software problems.
There's a lot more to conquering the world than early buzz and a spec sheet, so, yeah, we'll see.
Thing is, Apple's dreadfulness means nothing whatsoever to the people who matter-- consumers. The average iPhone buyer doesn't know a blessed thing about Apple's relationship to developers, they don't regard Apple as "controlling", they really could give a shit about the things that consume tech pundits and geeks.
They care about a device that works well and does what they want. In that, the iPhone is as good as ever, and will inevitably improve.
I agree its customers who are the most important part. However, with all the success Apple had with iPhone, they are far from dominating the market and need help from third party : operators. If mobile operators turn to whatever "iPhone killer" because they seen enough of Apple's antics (and because those other mobiles are finally "good enough"....that's quite a key point), it will be difficult for Apple to sustain its growth.
BTW : just read this article :
http://www.phonenews.com/t-mobile-co...d-market-9490/
This might help the Android Market sales quite a lot. On the other hand, it is unlikely to come for AppStore.
However, with all the success Apple had with iPhone, they are far from dominating the market and need help from third party : operators.
They are dominating the profit marketshare of the entire worldwide handset market according to the latest stats. They seem to dominate the mindshare that any new smartphone is not only being models after the iPhone but also being compared to it over any other device. The Droid, Pre and every other high-end phone first coming to market in the US seems to have a carrier exclusivity attached to it so your claim that they are only succeeding because of ?help from third party: operators? is pretty weak. That isn?t even considering the fact that in countries with multiple carriers they can?t seem to keep them on the shelves. I don?t think Italy is still in god supply for this holiday season.
I agree its customers who are the most important part. However, with all the success Apple had with iPhone, they are far from dominating the market and need help from third party : operators. If mobile operators turn to whatever "iPhone killer" because they seen enough of Apple's antics (and because those other mobiles are finally "good enough"....that's quite a key point), it will be difficult for Apple to sustain its growth.
BTW : just read this article :
http://www.phonenews.com/t-mobile-co...d-market-9490/
This might help the Android Market sales quite a lot. On the other hand, it is unlikely to come for AppStore.
The only carrier "problem" that I'm aware involves Verizon in the US, and there are plenty of reasons for the iPhone not being carried by Verizon beyond Apple's "antics." You could as easily say that it's Verizon that is prone to antics, which is why they're not getting a piece of the Apple pie. Certainly whatever the American T-Mobile elects to do isn't very important in the scheme of things, and the fact that a carrier wants in on some app store action doesn't seem like it's good for anyone but the carrier. "Carrier billing" for the App Store wouldn't be any kind of enhancement or improvement at all, just an unwarranted intrusion and an added layer of complexity.
In the rest of the world, there doesn't seem to be any resistance to partnering with Apple. Since the real growth of the platform is likely to come from sales outside of the US, Apple and Verizon not getting along is just a blip.
The only carrier "problem" that I'm aware involves Verizon in the US, and there are plenty of reasons for the iPhone not being carried by Verizon beyond Apple's "antics." You could as easily say that it's Verizon that is prone to antics, which is why they're not getting a piece of the Apple pie. Certainly whatever the American T-Mobile elects to do isn't very important in the scheme of things, and the fact that a carrier wants in on some app store action doesn't seem like it's good for anyone but the carrier. "Carrier billing" for the App Store wouldn't be any kind of enhancement or improvement at all, just an unwarranted intrusion and an added layer of complexity.
In the rest of the world, there doesn't seem to be any resistance to partnering with Apple. Since the real growth of the platform is likely to come from sales outside of the US, Apple and Verizon not getting along is just a blip.
Not really. There are operators (and big ones) through the world that offered subsidized iPhones but after the initial contract is over, they are turning to different options (such as Android devices). iPhone is still offered, but with no subside they are real expensive. In some markets, actually the prices of old model (3G) went up and new one (3GS) is now in luxury range. So what you don't consider as problem in the US, as the price of the iPhone 3GS is relatively low, might be a real problem for Apple in the coming period. And those 50 mils of units they sold doesn't really mean that much globally.
And those 50 mils of units they sold doesn't really mean that much globally.
I believe the 50M units sold refers to devices running iPhone OS. This is important if you are trying to create a healthy and standardized ecosystem.
Not really. There are operators (and big ones) through the world that offered subsidized iPhones but after the initial contract is over, they are turning to different options (such as Android devices). iPhone is still offered, but with no subside they are real expensive. In some markets, actually the prices of old model (3G) went up and new one (3GS) is now in luxury range. So what you don't consider as problem in the US, as the price of the iPhone 3GS is relatively low, might be a real problem for Apple in the coming period. And those 50 mils of units they sold doesn't really mean that much globally.
I'm unaware of this phenomena, could you cite some particulars?
I'm unaware of this phenomena, could you cite some particulars?
Don't have an english language article about that which I can point you to, but you can check the prices of operators such as Vodafone or T-Mobile is several European countries through 2009 (especially when 3GS had been introduced).
Don't have an english language article about that which I can point you to, but you can check the prices of operators such as Vodafone or T-Mobile is several European countries through 2009 (especially when 3GS had been introduced).
The language doesn?t matter. We can get it adequately translated and words like Apple, iPhone and Android will be in English. So please, supply some links of mobile operators that will no longer be subsidizing the iPhone.
I did find an article from a year and a half ago talking about O2 floating the idea of raising the price of the iPhone, but their current prices don't reflect that. In fact, from what I can see, in most of Europe the trend has been toward the iPhone getting ever cheaper as it is opened up to more carriers, after being introduced at fairly high, unsubsidized prices.
Carriers are also offering Apps which utilise the in App purchase system introduced with OS3 to offer services like streaming video or GPS.
Carrier based billing for applications and services has been around for years the main problem, you change your handset you start again.
With the iPhone you can transfer your Apps from iTunes to a new iPhone.
I don't really want to do a whole lot of research on this, but from what I could see, France and Germany are selling the iPhone for the equivalent of $199 US dollars, they've increased the subsidy in Spain, and there's talk of how Tesco getting the iPhone in Britain may spark a price war, so I'm not seeing this vanishing subsidy phenomena.
I did find an article from a year and a half ago talking about O2 floating the idea of raising the price of the iPhone, but their current prices don't reflect that. In fact, from what I can see, in most of Europe the trend has been toward the iPhone getting ever cheaper as it is opened up to more carriers, after being introduced at fairly high, unsubsidized prices.
Thats what I have been trying to say Solipsism!
Microsoft?s chief software architect Ray Ozzie recently told his audience that, among smartphone platforms, "all the apps that count will be ported to every one of them."
So all Microsoft apps and games that haven't been ported to the iPhone yet don't count?
So all Microsoft apps and games that haven't been ported to the iPhone yet don't count?
I think that, given how the smartphone app market is shaking out, it would be fair to say that any app that counts is obliged to be available on all the major platforms.
To the extent that WinMo apps and games haven't been ported to the iPhone, they don't count, QED.
It actually remains to be seen if WinMo, itself, will be counted among the major platforms.
"Android's storage and system RAM starvation problem is so obvious and tragic for any hope of Android ever becoming a viable platform for real games that it simply strains belief that Google even considered that Android users might want to play real games on their phones."
Sounds good, but when you think about it this just isn't true.
First, we're referring to where the app is stored as the limitation... not the processing power of the device, its memory, its graphic capabilities. The claim is that because apps MUST reside in internal storage vs. the SD card and Apple so brilliantly soldered the SD card (or whatever memory) in place. COnsequently, our only hope is that Google 'fix' this and allow sizable apps to be stored on the SD card.
However, Space Physics, is a great example of an existing game that overcomes this limit by having a separate app install data on an SD card. Convoluted compared to not having to do this? Sure.
But what if an app, upon initialization, downloaded its data onto the SD card? Apps could have substantially more resources and it would be about as automatic as on the iPod Touch. Yes, I know... the dev has to host these data files somewhere.
Sure, ideally Google fixing the issue would be best, but intelligent devs can work around trivial issues like getting resource data onto the SD card.
Right now the Android's biggest problem is the install base and how many people are actively buying apps and thus attracting development.