Google 'Nexus One' pictured, rumored coming to T-Mobile

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  • Reply 81 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    The entire industry is.



    that I am only using the term "fracturing" when developers have en masse talking about the problems of having multiple flavors across multiple hardware configurations...



    its the old tired and fustrating "works, but not certified"...which was a nightmare for hardware manufacturers using windows...you can not possible predict which hardware configuration a consumer will use to build their computer, only design an optimum one.



    what work you have to do before you before buying a peripheral to make sure it works with your motherboard, your video card, your sound card....etc,.
  • Reply 82 of 141
    New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.



    As for the computer building, it's as hard as you think it is. I, at first, thought the same way. That there's too much to burn through before finding what works. But it turns out that there are standards (governed by IEEE) for the motherboards that make it really easy to determine what will and will not work. Not to mention that the slots are keyed to only accept a specific connector. And the manufacturers of those items have their drivers at the ready for Windows. Plus, implying that you're building a desktop automatically implies that you have a bit of knowledge into how the pieces work together.



    All the mainstream motherboards "evolve", if you will, to a new standard at pretty much the same time. And the hardware follows suit. There are the high-performance boards at the very edge that move on to new standards, but they're more of the exception.



    For example, I have a PCI-E based board. I grab any manufacturer's video card that uses the PCI-E standard and swap out. Install drivers. Done. Same goes with sound cards, network adapters, etc.



    Even in a fragmented world, there are standards that offer control.
  • Reply 83 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caf View Post


    I don't think any Android device could compare to the iPhone before the Droid. The Droid has hardware that matches the iPhone (better in some ways, but worse in others, but overall a pretty good match, especially for those that prefer physical keyboards). And when you consider that the Droid is on a better network, it makes for a good option for some people.



    I've been saying for some time though, that the pace of development in the Android world is way outpacing Apple. With new devices coming out every couple of weeks or so, there will soon be many Android devices that outperform the iPhone. The Nexus One, for instance, will have twice the resolution of an iPhone screen, and a significantly faster processor, the 1 GHz Snapdragon. It's thinner, offers better integration with the many free Google apps, and if I never have to use iTunes again, I'll be overjoyed (Never has such a crappy piece of software been suffered by so many, except maybe Windows Vista).



    What makes me most interested in the Nexus, though, is the business model. Will Google finally succeed in breaking the locked-in carrier model? Although others have tried, none have the marketing muscle or connections with buyers that Google has. It irritates me that if I buy an iPhone, or most other phones on major carriers, that I essentially have to buy them on credit. I get a cheap subsidized price up front, then have to pay for hugely overpriced service through the carrier for the next two years to pay back my "loan". It would be a huge step forward for consumers if we could buy the phone we want, then deal for the best data plan available. Even if only TMobile is on board with the Nexus initially, if they get enough new customers they could force the hand of others. It will be interesting to watch.



    Very succinctly put, especially for those questioning the validity of this article on AI
  • Reply 84 of 141
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    For example, I have a PCI-E based board. I grab any manufacturer's video card that uses the PCI-E standard and swap out. Install drivers. Done. Same goes with sound cards, network adapters, etc.



    Even in a fragmented world, there are standards that offer control.



    That is a horrible example which only works with certain HW components, not with varying HW platform types or OS models with different UIs.
  • Reply 85 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That is a horrible example which only works with certain HW components, not with varying HW platform types or OS models with different UIs.



    Maybe I'm missing the whole point of how desktop building fits in to the discussion?



    The way I interperated it was that there are many varying motherboard manufacturers and I can buy a board from any one of them. The same for video cards, sound cards, etc. As long as all of them build to the PCI or PCI-E standard, then I can fit any manufacturer's PCI-E video card into any manufacturer's motherboard's PCI-E slot.



    The thing on a motherboard that truly is incompatible is the processor socket than anything else. And even then, all motherboards have a wide range of sockets that it will accept. You buy a board that has Intel on it, you get an Intel processor. Same for AMD. Then you can stick whatever manufacturer's product you want into the corresponding slot. Provided that you match the standard that slot goes with, of course.
  • Reply 86 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    I'm sure Verizon and Motorola are thrilled.



    And The Great Android Fragmentation continues . . .



    I don't understand the fragmentation argument. They all have the same OS.



    Are you so blindly in love with Apple that you don't see the point of having more than one hardware choice for a certain OS? People need a choice of hardware features as well as software. Having more Android phones can't hurt Google and can't hurt consumers.



    Don't forget that the iPhone has had 3 major versions now. New games and such take advantage of the 3GS and its faster processor and video capability.
  • Reply 87 of 141
    It's all targeting our fickle consumers. Google, as does Apple, plans on selling attractive and profitable products made in Asia.



    The Google 'nexus' offering may be intended to encourage a more 'open' wireless U.S. rate structure. Maybe even like the rest of the world.



    If T-Mobile is the intended 'home' of the device this may be related to TM's new plan and installing of new high-speed services.
  • Reply 88 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caf View Post


    I don't think any Android device could compare to the iPhone before the Droid. The Droid has hardware that matches the iPhone (better in some ways, but worse in others, but overall a pretty good match, especially for those that prefer physical keyboards). And when you consider that the Droid is on a better network, it makes for a good option for some people.



    I've been saying for some time though, that the pace of development in the Android world is way outpacing Apple. With new devices coming out every couple of weeks or so, there will soon be many Android devices that outperform the iPhone. The Nexus One, for instance, will have twice the resolution of an iPhone screen, and a significantly faster processor, the 1 GHz Snapdragon. It's thinner, offers better integration with the many free Google apps, and if I never have to use iTunes again, I'll be overjoyed (Never has such a crappy piece of software been suffered by so many, except maybe Windows Vista).



    What makes me most interested in the Nexus, though, is the business model. Will Google finally succeed in breaking the locked-in carrier model? Although others have tried, none have the marketing muscle or connections with buyers that Google has. It irritates me that if I buy an iPhone, or most other phones on major carriers, that I essentially have to buy them on credit. I get a cheap subsidized price up front, then have to pay for hugely overpriced service through the carrier for the next two years to pay back my "loan". It would be a huge step forward for consumers if we could buy the phone we want, then deal for the best data plan available. Even if only TMobile is on board with the Nexus initially, if they get enough new customers they could force the hand of others. It will be interesting to watch.



    I think you hit the nail on the head here. I do have a feeling that carriers will fight hard for the carrier exclusive, subsidized phone model, but with a giant like Google in the mix, you never know what will happen.



    At least you can do what you are saying with T-Mobile, but it'd be nice if other carriers gave you a discount for not subsidizing your hardware.
  • Reply 90 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Actually, this is a meaningless statement.



    "Fragmentation" always refers to platform fragmentation. A platform is fragmented when multiple versions of the OS exist or multiple versions of hardware exist that can only run one or the other versions or subsets of the OS. It's basically software determined even in the hardware case, because different hardware that can all run the same software is just platform "differentiation," not fragmentation. Case in point is all the different hardware that can run Linux.



    Actually, yours is a meaningless comment



    Fragmentation always refers to whatever the referer means by fragmentation. What you may think is a completely and utterly seperate concept.
  • Reply 91 of 141
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    Actually, yours is a meaningless comment



    Fragmentation always refers to whatever the referer means by fragmentation. What you may think is a completely and utterly seperate concept.



    Yes. Words only mean what the speaker intends, and what the listener apprehends is unrelated.



    Although I don't know why I bother to post this, since it's a crapshoot if anyone will find it intelligible.
  • Reply 92 of 141
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    How is the iPhone in these various versions fragmented when 1) the OS is the same, and 2) the hardware is substantially the same?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    And you ignoring the iPhone Gen 1, iPhone Gen 2, iPhone 3GS, and iPod Touch Fragmentation continues...



    But hey, I suppose those blinders make it easier to see where you're headed to...



  • Reply 93 of 141
    blah64blah64 Posts: 928member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Look again at what you've written-- I think it makes the case that there are legitimate concerns regarding Android platform fragmentation and what it means for a broadly adopted consumer device.



    Your reasons why all is well sound exactly like the Linux apologists that have been assuring us the Linux is set to make real inroads on consumer desktops, any minute now. The problem being, of course, that what seems right and evident and good to tech heads and geeks isn't necessarily, and probably isn't, what seems right and evident and good to the average consumer.



    Remember, the whole point of the iPhone was to make smartphone functionality readily usable by the average consumer. And not just the phone itself, but the whole process, from software updates to getting apps. And remember that upon launch, tech heads and geeks were full of contempt because they already had phones that could "do all that."



    Now, Google has sort of explicitly positioned Android as the geek OS of choice, and I'm sure that a lot of early adopters are happy to dl "proof of concept" hacks that give their handsets various forms of functionality, and don't have trouble keeping track of various point releases and hardware capabilities. But that shit is never going to fly with the average consumer. Worse, the same community that relishes digging into the underpinnings of their phone are likely to have nothing but contempt for users that just want to buy a phone that works, with the apps they buy, out of the box. When such consumers come looking for help, are they going to get the IT guy treatment?



    The worst thing that could happen to Android would be to get a reputation as the geek phone of choice, with the geek community bristling at newbies who don't even know how to compile binaries or find OS tweeks generated by that community. Fragmentation isn't going to be a problem for a certain subset of users, as your post indicates. The problem is is that subset isn't big enough to drive truly mass market adoption. Android needs to have clarity, as a brand and as an experience, to remain a growing concern.



    ** Best Post I've Read In Months! **



    Nice job. Unfortunately, there will still be people who just don't get it. But that's okay, it just proves that there are very different mindsets when it comes to purchasing and using technology.
  • Reply 94 of 141
    blah64blah64 Posts: 928member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    As for the computer building, it's as hard as you think it is. I, at first, thought the same way. That there's too much to burn through before finding what works. But it turns out that there are standards (governed by IEEE) for the motherboards that make it really easy to determine what will and will not work. Not to mention that the slots are keyed to only accept a specific connector. And the manufacturers of those items have their drivers at the ready for Windows. Plus, implying that you're building a desktop automatically implies that you have a bit of knowledge into how the pieces work together.



    All the mainstream motherboards "evolve", if you will, to a new standard at pretty much the same time. And the hardware follows suit. There are the high-performance boards at the very edge that move on to new standards, but they're more of the exception.



    For example, I have a PCI-E based board. I grab any manufacturer's video card that uses the PCI-E standard and swap out. Install drivers. Done. Same goes with sound cards, network adapters, etc.



    Even in a fragmented world, there are standards that offer control.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    The way I interperated it was that there are many varying motherboard manufacturers and I can buy a board from any one of them. The same for video cards, sound cards, etc. As long as all of them build to the PCI or PCI-E standard, then I can fit any manufacturer's PCI-E video card into any manufacturer's motherboard's PCI-E slot.



    The thing on a motherboard that truly is incompatible is the processor socket than anything else. And even then, all motherboards have a wide range of sockets that it will accept. You buy a board that has Intel on it, you get an Intel processor. Same for AMD. Then you can stick whatever manufacturer's product you want into the corresponding slot. Provided that you match the standard that slot goes with, of course.



    Interestingly, the above is pretty irrefutable proof that you are FAR from a typical consumer. You're a smart guy, and you "get" technology. But it appears you don't understand consumers (referring to the iPhone/fragmentation conversation). It doesn't matter if stores sold a completely pre-canned kit that contained exact matches for boards, processor, case, etc. 99% of consumers will NEVER purchase something like that. Ever. This is why Linux has such a hard time gaining any market share with consumers, even though it's very successful in the server market. I have a handful of Linux servers myself, and have no problem setting one up, but I have no interest at all in using one for my desktop.



    As a developer, I have great interest in Google's handset OS, but as a consumer, I have very little. If over time it proves to be robust, virus-free, spyware-free, app-rich, and doesn't pass personal information (location, app usage, various types of "cookies", etc) back to Google, then I will consider it. But I'm more geeky than the typical consumer as well.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.



    This is really interesting stuff, if it's true. I would love to see anything that pushes the carriers lose their grip on consumers in the cell phone industry.



    But personally, I would not use any phone that passed any information to Google (or other companies) that I did not specifically enter or request. The iPhone already does too much of this, and it's fortunate that we can jailbreak the devices and lock them down. I know a lot of people just don't care, but fortunately this conversation is happening more as people become aware of the amount of personal information Google has now.



    It will take some time before people wake up and realize how scary this is, but I like the fact that more and more people are bothered by the type, and sheer amount, of personal information that various companies, Google in particular, are in control of now. Our society is like a lobster. Put it in a nice warm pot of water, and slowly turn up the heat until it's boiled for dinner. The lobster doesn't even complain because it happens slowly.
  • Reply 95 of 141
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Works on 3G networks abroad. Still technically a 3G phone.



    Technically one thing, actually another - how open source is that!



    McD
  • Reply 96 of 141
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post


    Interestingly, the above is pretty irrefutable proof that you are FAR from a typical consumer. You're a smart guy, and you "get" technology. But it appears you don't understand consumers (referring to the iPhone/fragmentation conversation). [?]



    Great post.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.



    Unless they can at least break even with that price then it doesn?t seem likely. Since Google already dominates mobile searches across nearly all mobile browsers and Android as a platform there is simply no need to offer a loss leader device that Google has to fork out money to support.
  • Reply 97 of 141
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    And you ignoring the iPhone Gen 1, iPhone Gen 2, iPhone 3GS, and iPod Touch Fragmentation continues...



    But hey, I suppose those blinders make it easier to see where you're headed to...



    Three of those products are successors and the other is in a different category & did Apple release them in competition to it's licensees products?



    But hey, I suppose not all come-backs have to be clever!



    McD
  • Reply 98 of 141
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,422member
    i can understand why google does this with their own phone. they are trying to control the features, UI etc, with all these other android phones how does google control the experience like apple does, because now their maybe 20+ "android" experiences and the brand becomes diluted or amorphous.



    now google could clearly define the parameters to give a unique UI and experience, but phone manufacturers want some way to differentiate their phones. it also shows that apple did the right thing and the MS model is doomed.



    the big question, is going from a moto android, to htc android, to samsung android et al just confuses the consumer--(can apps be transfered) and IT goes nuts.



    google needs more than an app store it needs a more tight universe like apple to give a total seemless experience.



    nokia, MS, Pre are doomed, there will be room for RIM, since some simply like that physical keyboard.



    gee all those that said apple needs a cdma phone, well that's dead. also i applaud google for pushing this to the consumer to release us from the oppressive telecoms, iphone started this now another nail in the coffin is google. this is the way to finally get the monthly costs down and more penetration
  • Reply 99 of 141
    I'm more worried as to who will support the phone, because I doubt HTC will if it is Google branded. Not saying that Google sucks in this regard, but they haven't sold any hardware themselves directly yet.
  • Reply 100 of 141
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Just like Pre, the first Droid phones, and all the other iPhone killers out there?



    Meanwhile, they're bragging because Pre will sell 600,000 phones this quarter (down 30% from the previous quarter) while Apple will sell 10,000,000 iPhones.



    So far, none of these alleged 'iphone killers' have had anything to recommend them.







    I don't know. Why are Android fans so obsessed with killing the iPhone?



    It's sarcasm - like calling your pet Chihuahua 'killer'



    McD
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