Google 'Nexus One' pictured, rumored coming to T-Mobile

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  • Reply 101 of 141
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    "Fragmentation" always refers to platform fragmentation. A platform is fragmented when multiple versions of the OS exist or multiple versions of hardware exist that can only run one or the other versions or subsets of the OS. It's basically software determined even in the hardware case, because different hardware that can all run the same software is just platform "differentiation," not fragmentation. Case in point is all the different hardware that can run Linux.



    So, to summarise, what fragmentation/differentiation really means is roughly 1% market share.



    And what's all this about Google providing a tangible product anyway? I thought they just made money by pointing people in a chaotically plausible direction.



    McD
  • Reply 102 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by success View Post


    Actually it's from Blade Runner. The number represents a generation/model.



    Actually it isn't "from" Blade Runner, because nexus is a separate term in itself available to use by anyone, and in terms of cultural history Henry Miller used it before Blade Runner. If they intend it to be "from" Blade Runner that's their business, not mine, my associations are personal.
  • Reply 103 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by McDave View Post


    Three of those products are successors and the other is in a different category & did Apple release them in competition to it's licensees products?



    But hey, I suppose not all come-backs have to be clever!



    McD



    Well, since Apple doesn't license the iPhone OS it would be impossible to compete with its licensees, so it's kind of a nonsense argument. Also, in most ways the various Android phones are successors to each other. The same as Gen 1 iPhone users can't enjoy 3G, so goes for the equivalent Gen 1 Android users. Or any of the various iterations of the iPod. Such is the nature of technology that it is always advancing.



    One very nice feature of the Android platform is I could buy apps with little fear of vendor lock-in. If I buy Verizon's Droid and then another Android phone next year is more to my liking I have a much higher chance of being able to use those apps on the new phone. With the iPhone, I have zero chance of switching to another manufacturers phone; I'll always be stuck buying next year's iPhone to continue to use my apps (and having no choice on shopping around for the best phone feature set).



    People aren't looking for 5 year or even 3 year commitments to cell phones. They're practically fashion accessories to be switched out as styles change. Not long ago, the Motorola Razr was the fashionable cell phone to have. Now it's the iPhone. What will the next "must have" cell phone fashion be? I don't know.



    And before I get hit the fallback argument, I'm not Android lover. And I'm not an iPhone hater. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Would an iPhone be fun to have? Sure, but I wasn't willing to leave Verizon to get it.
  • Reply 104 of 141
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    Well, since Apple doesn't license the iPhone OS it would be impossible to compete with its licensees, so it's kind of a nonsense argument. Also, in most ways the various Android phones are successors to each other. The same as Gen 1 iPhone users can't enjoy 3G, so goes for the equivalent Gen 1 Android users. Or any of the various iterations of the iPod. Such is the nature of technology that it is always advancing.



    One very nice feature of the Android platform is I could buy apps with little fear of vendor lock-in. If I buy Verizon's Droid and then another Android phone next year is more to my liking I have a much higher chance of being able to use those apps on the new phone. With the iPhone, I have zero chance of switching to another manufacturers phone; I'll always be stuck buying next year's iPhone to continue to use my apps (and having no choice on shopping around for the best phone feature set).



    People aren't looking for 5 year or even 3 year commitments to cell phones. They're practically fashion accessories to be switched out as styles change. Not long ago, the Motorola Razr was the fashionable cell phone to have. Now it's the iPhone. What will the next "must have" cell phone fashion be? I don't know.



    And before I get hit the fallback argument, I'm not Android lover. And I'm not an iPhone hater. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Would an iPhone be fun to have? Sure, but I wasn't willing to leave Verizon to get it.



    I've said this before, but I think it's a fundamental error to continue to think of "cell phones" in Razr terms. Phones like the Razr were entirely differentiated by case design. Of course they were disposable and used as fashion accessories.



    Modern mobile computing devices have more in common with laptops or netbooks than dumbphones. People don't change out their laptop because they get bored with the looks of the thing-- they change it out when they need more computing power to run the apps they want to run.
  • Reply 105 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post




    People aren't looking for 5 year or even 3 year commitments to cell phones. They're practically fashion accessories to be switched out as styles change. Not long ago, the Motorola Razr was the fashionable cell phone to have. Now it's the iPhone. What will the next "must have" cell phone fashion be? I don't know.



    The iPod, for instance, wasn't just a fad. Apple made the iPod. Macs + OS X also rule their respective market. Apple makes the iPhone. It was (and is) the single most important mobile device of the last few years and even with competition, is holding its own and projected to increase by leaps and bounds. If you believe the "by 2012" predictions about Android + iPhone sharing top spots, then we're certainly not talking seasonal fashion or fleeting trends. There is nothing preventing the iPhone from not only having the staying power of the iPod, but from enjoying a similar kind of market domination over the course of time.



    Apple "fashion" is characteristically long-lived.
  • Reply 106 of 141
    successsuccess Posts: 1,039member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Actually it isn't "from" Blade Runner, because nexus is a separate term in itself available to use by anyone, and in terms of cultural history Henry Miller used it before Blade Runner. If they intend it to be "from" Blade Runner that's their business, not mine, my associations are personal.



    Dumb comment. It doesn't matter who "coined" the term first or whatever you are trying to say. The fact is nobody cares who was first. Names are often derived from famous movies and just like Droid is from Starwars, Nexus is certainly influenced from Blade Runner. Somehow you also do not see the relation between the words Droid (similar to replicant) and Nexus.
  • Reply 107 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.




    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Unless they can at least break even with that price then it doesn?t seem likely. Since Google already dominates mobile searches across nearly all mobile browsers and Android as a platform there is simply no need to offer a loss leader device that Google has to fork out money to support.





    Google currently has a natural/legal monopoly in the online advertising space. To use this legal monopoly to subsidize / tie users into using another line of business (mobile handsets) in order to grow market share in a secondary market might raise red flags. I realize that the purchase of the Nexus One is entirely optional for the users and product tying in the AntiTrust sense is usually the other way around. But I think MicroSofts lawyers would love to have a crack at Google for AntiTrust violations, and Tying the use of Google Cloud products to a possibly subsidized Nexus One might be their chance.
  • Reply 108 of 141
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kiwirob View Post


    Google currently has a natural/legal monopoly in the online advertising space. To use this legal monopoly to subsidize / tie users into using another line of business (mobile handsets) in order to grow market share in a secondary market might raise red flags. I realize that the purchase of the Nexus One is entirely optional for the users and product tying in the AntiTrust sense is usually the other way around. But I think MicroSofts lawyers would love to have a crack at Google for AntiTrust violations, and Tying the use of Google Cloud products to a possibly subsidized Nexus One might be their chance.



    Excellent point! I can see that being an anti-trust issue.
  • Reply 109 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post


    While once again it is pointed out that even the 1st gen iphone and the 3rd gen touch can all run the 3.1 os and are all included when an OS upgrade is available.



    And we will see the real numbers, more speculation about the 2.0 and 2.1 being the only two available, THE FACT remains all apple mobile devices are capable/use the latest apple mobile OS....until then with android, it is a lot of big talk...



    And once again is pointed out that all iPhone versions have different hardware, so you can either go for (limited) lowest denominator or live in the fragmented world as a developer. The fact all has same OS version is not going to help you there.



    On the other hand, while you see several versions of Android at the same time, as it is right now the devices are quite the same, so it is relatively easy to write application that use all the HW features of the device (all have camera, all have GPS, all have Compass, and to some extent have similar video card and processing speed). Unless you writing app that uses latest 2.0 features (such as BT or Wifi peer-to-peer connectivity), your application will run on all Android devices just fine. When you create your 2.0 API based application, all devices (including G1) will run 2.0 so it will be still one single platform.
  • Reply 110 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    How is the iPhone in these various versions fragmented when 1) the OS is the same, and 2) the hardware is substantially the same?



    iPhone doesn't have GPS and Compass, iPhone 3G doesn't have Compass and has substantially different video card to 3GS and iPod Touch don't have Camera (and network access except wifi, but that's understandable) and has different memory model. Quite big fragmentation when you consider they are produced by company with such reputation.



    Android, in contrast, while every device has a different fancy home screen is pretty much the same from the developer point of view, and multiple versions of the OS is not that big concern as you might read in various FUD posts on this site.
  • Reply 111 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post


    People buy the iphone the same reason apple computers, little to no maintenance, runs what it says it does out of the box, security, productivity, ease of use, and proper implementation of hardware/software.



    It already appears that google can not live up to their end, its been over and they can not even update their first venture into android devices..



    People buy Android phone and get the same experience..it works out of the box and does what they expect it to do. Just strange sort of "tech-sexuals" like you, who needs to know your device runs the latest version of the system the second day it is announced to stay happy, cares if Android devices have 1.6 or 2.0. Average user doesn't know and he'll happy upgrade once the upgrade for his device is ready. It is much more likely G1 will be upgraded to 2.0 early next year as it won't.



    But there is another important point : on iPhone, it is quite essential for you to have the latest version of the OS, otherwise you'd feel somewhat retarded as really important features (copy and paste, system search) won't be there. Android has the important features from the beginning.

    What is the major feature of 2.0 ? It is CDMA-compliant (transparent to developer). It is not important at all to you as GSM phone owner. But it will help get Android market share that iPhone probably never get.
  • Reply 112 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by success View Post


    Dumb comment. It doesn't matter who "coined" the term first or whatever you are trying to say. The fact is nobody cares who was first. Names are often derived from famous movies and just like Droid is from Starwars, Nexus is certainly influenced from Blade Runner. Somehow you also do not see the relation between the words Droid (similar to replicant) and Nexus.



    Well a point can be dumb in as much as you don't get it, which you obviously don't. Nexus is a term that is very widely used, and wasn't "coined" so to speak by anyone. The fact that you associate it with Blade Runner doesn't mean it's "from" Blade Runner, or that anyone else will associate it with it. For instance I who have somehow missed Blade Runner (which I d actually love to watch asap for that matter) and it seems I am more literate, I associate it with Henry Miller's book.



    In any case I think it's pompous and megalomaniac as per my original post. Great for a product that will fail to attract the imagination of the consumer public and that will fall short of expectations.
  • Reply 113 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brainless View Post


    iPhone doesn't have GPS and Compass, iPhone 3G doesn't have Compass and has substantially different video card to 3GS and iPod Touch don't have Camera (and network access except wifi, but that's understandable) and has different memory model. Quite big fragmentation when you consider they are produced by company with such reputation.



    Android, in contrast, while every device has a different fancy home screen is pretty much the same from the developer point of view, and multiple versions of the OS is not that big concern as you might read in various FUD posts on this site.





    Logic stood on its head...



    Somehow various OS versions with different interfaces on different hardware is deemed better than the natural progression of the iphone in terms of hardware. How it fragments the market that previous models have less features is beyond anyone...
  • Reply 114 of 141
    imacfpimacfp Posts: 750member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I wonder why Apple iPhone fans are so concerned about Android splintering. Apple fans aren't likely to buy them. It's almost as if people are trading talking points for when iPhone fans talk to others.



    I think there is a fear that Apple will screw up again like they did with Microsoft and the good times will fade away. Google will control everything.
  • Reply 115 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Wind River announced today a commercial version of the Android platform that comes with pre-integrated apps and global support and is optimized for Texas Instruments? OMAP 3. But the offering represents one more step toward a dangerously fragmented Android universe . . .



    Yeah, Android is open source, so you can spin-off a completely non-compatible version and still call it Android Phone. But to get the Android Market and all the Google Applications on it, it needs to conform to pretty tight standards. Google is aware of the risk of fragmentation and IMO is doing pretty decent work there.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    What does Android fragmentation look like?[/SIZE]



    Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.



    Don't agree. I am the Android developer (so I qualify for your "any developer" option) and I have no problems supporting my application on different models and screen sizes. Maybe it has something to do with the multiple years of experience with J2ME which was indeed fragmented.

    It is probably possible to write application that will have problems, but if you are reasonably careful you won't run into any major problems. Such problems are with iPhone as well as there are multiple versions of it.



    But you brought an interesting point about the screen size : yes Android has officially different screen sizes, and since 1.6 version of OS, there is published way how to deal with multiple resolutions, which is quite elegant, almost automatic.



    With all those rumors about iPhone Tablet and iPhone Nano, it is quite inevitable that iPhone will get different display resolutions soon. What information is available to iPhone developer how to prepare for multiple resolutions ? ZERO. There will be many applications among those 100,000 in the AppStore that use hard coded screen sizes and will run into major problems except some Apple "stroke of genius". This is not too comfortable position to be with for iPhone developer...being an open platform with predictable development is quite important.
  • Reply 116 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Logic stood on its head...



    Somehow various OS versions with different interfaces on different hardware is deemed better than the natural progression of the iphone in terms of hardware. How it fragments the market that previous models have less features is beyond anyone...



    Ok, try that slowly for you again. We talked about fragmentation from the developer point of view. Although the interface (mostly of the home screen) might be different between different Android models, the API is pretty much stable through different versions. They are adding new features, similar to your "natural progression of the iPhone", but at the same time, more and more devices gets the OS update, so before developer is done with application that uses new 2.0 features (API), the use base will probably have it. On the other hand, most of Android devices are pretty much the same from the hardware point of view, there are no devices left in the cold without GPS, Camera, Compass, so you can count on devices to have them. So you can create applications using those features that will address entire platform, while on iPhone you are out of such luck. Some of the features are optional on Android, so perhaps we'll see one day a device, that ships without GPS, so the platform gets more fragmented so it will be on par with iPhone, but right now it is simply less fragmented. I know the truth hurts, especially if you still repeat your mantra "OS and HW is from the same manufacturer so it gotta be better" but in fact it is not.



    iPhone is still very powerful and nice device, but I wouldn't play that "fragmentation" card against Android, because if you look at the facts, it sounds silly.
  • Reply 117 of 141
    nceencee Posts: 836member
    Apple "stroke of genius" - Nice to see you are willing to note that it will happen:, this is Apple after-all



    Does anyone else see 2010 as a VERY important year for Apple? They have opened the door to some exciting times, and now they ether stay ahead or fall behind. The competition is coming on strong, and Apple CAN NOT sit back and take a "Wait & see" attitude. At least not if they want to stay ahead of this race.



    We all have to realize, there will come a day, when someone else will come up with something mind blowing, it will be a sad day in the Life & Times of Apple, but it will happen. Until then, here's looking forward to a very interesting 2010 for Apple and all of us Apple freaks.



    Skip
  • Reply 118 of 141
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Remember, the whole point of the iPhone was to make smartphone functionality readily usable by the average consumer.



    I disagree.



    Instead, the whole point of the iPhone was to make smartphone functionality readily usable by the stupidest among us. That is why, for example, there is only one hardware button on the front. That is why multi-taking is available only for a select subset of apps. That is why software additions are available only from one source.



    The iPhone could be MUCH better if it were made for people of average intelligence, and without deferring to dolts who weren't able to stop their VCR from flashing"12:00" for 5 years straight. While not all iPhone users are stupid, all the stupid folks who want a smartphone have only one choice.



    I'm hoping Android will be for the rest of us.
  • Reply 119 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Well a point can be dumb in as much as you don't get it, which you obviously don't. Nexus is a term that is very widely used, and wasn't "coined" so to speak by anyone. The fact that you associate it with Blade Runner doesn't mean it's "from" Blade Runner, or that anyone else will associate it with it. For instance I who have somehow missed Blade Runner (which I d actually love to watch asap for that matter) and it seems I am more literate, I associate it with Henry Miller's book.



    In any case I think it's pompous and megalomaniac as per my original post. Great for a product that will fail to attract the imagination of the consumer public and that will fall short of expectations.



    nexus |ˈneksəs|

    noun ( pl. same or -uses )

    a connection or series of connections linking two or more things : the nexus between industry and political power.

    ? a connected group or series : a nexus of ideas.

    ? the central and most important point or place : the nexus of all this activity was the disco.

    ORIGIN mid 17th cent.: from Latin, ?a binding together,? from nex- ?bound,? from the verb nectere.





    *
  • Reply 120 of 141
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brainless View Post


    Ok, try that slowly for you again. We talked about fragmentation from the developer point of view. Although the interface (mostly of the home screen) might be different between different Android models, the API is pretty much stable through different versions. They are adding new features, similar to your "natural progression of the iPhone", but at the same time, more and more devices gets the OS update, so before developer is done with application that uses new 2.0 features (API), the use base will probably have it. On the other hand, most of Android devices are pretty much the same from the hardware point of view, there are no devices left in the cold without GPS, Camera, Compass, so you can count on devices to have them. So you can create applications using those features that will address entire platform, while on iPhone you are out of such luck. Some of the features are optional on Android, so perhaps we'll see one day a device, that ships without GPS, so the platform gets more fragmented so it will be on par with iPhone, but right now it is simply less fragmented. I know the truth hurts, especially if you still repeat your mantra "OS and HW is from the same manufacturer so it gotta be better" but in fact it is not.



    iPhone is still very powerful and nice device, but I wouldn't play that "fragmentation" card against Android, because if you look at the facts, it sounds silly.



    *



    What you have posted above, and in prior posts is technically true from a developer perspective.





    Lets look at it from a different standpoint.





    For example, the Touch doesn't have a camera, so if you develop an app using the camera, you cannot sell it to the Touch users.... or maybe you can! Being creative, you as a developer have written an app that enhances the built-in camera function. What if you were to supply the same capability to the Photos stored on the Touch? By simply re-thinking (re-engineering) your app you could have potentially millions of new sales.



    Certainly, this also applies to the many, varied devices running Android. You could engineer your app so that it ran on every flavor (pun intended) of Android OS, and every device (hardware set) that runs Android... and support (or, at least, tolerate) every manufacturer's custom UI.



    But, would you?





    From a practical perspective, probably not! There is not enough sales potential to do this. More likely, you would cherry-pick a few popular Android versions and a few popular devices.



    Which ones?





    What the iPhone/Touch platform does is assist you to make the the decision of which OS versions and which devices to target.



    You can [fairly] easily find the population of OS versions and devices on the iPhone/Touch platform. With this information, you can make a business decision on which versions will give you the ROI to make it worthwhile.



    Then, with the app store you can market your versions as lites, downgrades, upgrades, in-app extensions... whatever makes sense.





    Again, you can do this with the Android platform, but it is, likely, harder and costlier because of the proliferation of choices. Again, would you? Which ones?



    Then there is the whole issue of cross-grades. How do you handle the customer who has purchased a version of your app that requires a specific OS version and device, and wants to change to a more (or less) capable OS version and device.



    What do you charge him?



    What do you do about the one he already has?





    Finally, we're talking a matter of degree of proliferation (or fragmentation, if you prefer).





    It is easier for the Developer to write, sell, maintain, update fewer versions for fewer devices running on fewer OS versions.





    And when the manufacturer(s) provide a lurch forward with new hardware or software capabilities, it is easier to deal with a single manufacturer and a single lurch.





    That's looking at the situation from a practical perspective.



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