Just FYI, this is only true for CDMA carriers with calls placed over 'the cell voice network' when no wifi is present. Fortunately, Android phones can make/receive VOIP calls over 3G without jailbreaking. Also, with Google Voice, inbound calls can be transferred without the other caller even knowing. Freedom...
Since you are deflecting the complaint about simultaneous data and voice by qualifying the circumstances, then it is only fair that you qualify the circumstances in your subsequent jab at the iPhone. To whit, I think the fact that you can't make VOIP calls over 3G without jailbreaking is more due to Apple's agreement with various carriers than anything else. Obviously, it is possible, and obviously they could allow it in a heartbeat -- since, similarly, certain carriers around the world allow tethering, while others do not.
Rather than using this to prove that Apple loves to curtail your personal freedom, feel free to reflect on how much freedom you would have with your carrier and with your phone and platform, if that combination happened to be responsible for 50% of the mobile data usage on the planet. And this, only because it was so dang easy and fun to do, despite the grey cloud and absolute bitter resentment you must feel every iPhone user walks around under, all the while dwelling on the almost palpable curtailment to his most cherished freedoms that he inevitable feels at every turn.
I'm sorry that you go around feeling that way about the iPhone -- must be a real downer for your freedoms, having to congratulate yourself everytime you see someone happily using an iPhone. Because it is sure to happen a lot.
anyone know why there is an 11 page limit to apps installed on the iphone. i've only had the iphone for 1 month and i've hit the limit already with 14GB of space left! i can play musical chairs with the syncing between itunes and the iphone but that is inconvenient. it's like what is the point of having 200,000 or 1 million apps in the app store but you can only install 176 apps with around16 apps taken by apple already. 176 divided by 200,000 is 0.00088 or .088%!!!
anyone know why there is an 11 page limit to apps installed on the iphone. i've only had the iphone for 1 month and i've hit the limit already with 14GB of space left! i can play musical chairs with the syncing between itunes and the iphone but that is inconvenient. it's like what is the point of having 200,000 or 1 million apps in the app store but you can only install 176 apps with around16 apps taken by apple already. 176 divided by 200,000 is 0.00088 or .088%!!!
1) The point of any store is to offer items you may want to buy, not expect everyone to want every item from that store. Most App Store items don?t appeal to my needs.
2) There is an 11 page limit but there is no known limit as to the number of apps you can install. You can find non-listed apps by using the search feature.
3) You aren?t accounting for free trail v. full apps, multiple version of the same app types for different categories, apps for specific religions, genders, life choices, etc. Frankly, I?m surprised you?ve found over 11 pages of apps that you want to have with you all the time.
4) I have four pages and they aren?t full. I use different pages for categorizing. Hopefully Apple will offer a hierarchal folder system for v4.0.
1) The point of any store is to offer items you may want to buy, not expect everyone to want every item from that store. Most App Store items don?t appeal to my needs.
2) There is an 11 page limit but there is no known limit as to the number of apps you can install. You can find non-listed apps by using the search feature.
3) You aren?t accounting for free trail v. full apps, multiple version of the same app types for different categories, apps for specific religions, genders, life choices, etc. Frankly, I?m surprised you?ve found over 11 pages of apps that you want to have with you all the time.
4) I have four pages and they aren?t full. I use different pages for categorizing. Hopefully Apple will offer a hierarchal folder system for v4.0.
i have 3 pages worth of game already, then 1 each for messaging/social, shopping, traveling, tools, education, lookups (encyclopedias, stocks, etc), news, apple's default apps. so it adds up pretty quickly.
the ideal number of pages for me would be about 20. i like the ways the apps are layed out, it just seems like a strange artificial limit.
i have 3 pages worth of game already, then 1 each for messaging/social, shopping, traveling, tools, education, lookups (encyclopedias, stocks, etc), news, apple's default apps. so it adds up pretty quickly.
the ideal number of pages for me would be about 20. i like the ways the apps are layed out, it just seems like a strange artificial limit.
I really don?t know why they have 11 pages. I think they first had 7 pages with v2.0.
Why is 20 pages ideal? It sounds like you are just choosing it because it?s 2 x 10. If there are 150k apps then you?d need 9,375 pages to get through them all. That would take forever.
Anything more than 4 pages is too much for me to bother with. Perhaps Apple thought that most people aren?t going to even come close to 11 pages and so stopped after adding those extra four. I would expect an improved system to be released this summer.
anyone know why there is an 11 page limit to apps installed on the iphone. i've only had the iphone for 1 month and i've hit the limit already with 14GB of space left! i can play musical chairs with the syncing between itunes and the iphone but that is inconvenient. it's like what is the point of having 200,000 or 1 million apps in the app store but you can only install 176 apps with around16 apps taken by apple already. 176 divided by 200,000 is 0.00088 or .088%!!!
most likely it's a RAM issue
do you use all the apps? i'm always deleting apps i don't use. my most used ones are the kids apps. my 2 year old just figured out how to switch between his apps if he gets bored with one.
I'll be buying a Nexus One if I can buy it unlocked and use it on T-mo. Sorry, Steve. You need to end exclusivity... and fast.
You know what's really funny, other than your post? ... the iPhone is selling at an ever increasing rate, ... despite missing out on your single purchase ... maybe SJ actually knows what he is doing .... go figure.
Then, obviously, the author's idea of what constitutes growth is different than yours. Just sayin'.
I was not trying to prove a point that the Android Market grew more than the Apple App Store, I was simply saying that the author's words were directly contradicting the chart cited in his article. I further explained myself in post #17 and shouldn't have to again for your benefit; facts are facts. And I apologize for using slang in my original post (i.e. just sayin'). I only meant to reinforce what I thought was an obvious error.
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Originally Posted by krabbelen
One would think that the sheer number of apps would increase quite quickly in the Android store, maybe for a variety of reasons: maybe there are thousands and thousands of developers all over the world that have traditionally developed apps for WinMo, Symbian, Java, etc. and are jumping on the new, hyped platform; maybe all the apps that got submitted to various stores opened by different phone manufacturers and different carriers all finally got submitted to the flagship store; whatever. One would hope that the apps are there with all this talk about how great Android will be and how all the phone manufacturers and carriers are going to get on board.
An obvious measure of real "growth" is not how many variations of a fart app a developer can come up with, but the real use of the store by customers. The author does well to recognize this. Everyone was surprised, probably most of all Apple, that there are 100,000 apps in the iTunes store.
While true, this really only strengthens the argument for Android's Market. How many of the 150,000+ apps from Apple's store are unique? Of course any application store for any platform will have redundancies, but the great thing about the Android Market is that it is not restricted and allows you to make your phone yours. Don't like the default home screen? Grab a replacement. Don't like the size, color, or name of any of the shortcuts on your home screen? Grab an app that will change them. I feel that this is "the real use of the store by customers," to do what they want to do with their phone and not have its basic functionality controlled by the manufacturer.
As for everything else, the Android Market is developing so quickly that for any app on the Apple Store (aside from games, Apple wins there,[for now ]) there is one on the Market that will offer the same function.
And Apple wasn't surprised they had over 100,000 apps in their store, they reviewed and approved every single one.
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Originally Posted by krabbelen
Furthermore, an iPhone app developer need only produce one version of his app, instead of multiple versions for umpteen different phone configurations.
This is a great point. Android app developers do have a much bigger task if they want their product to be as widespread as possible. I think that Google is banking on the Droid and the upcoming N1 to popularize and stabilize the Android platform, and give developers a baseline for future development.
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Originally Posted by krabbelen
However, it is not so surprising that Apple can maintain consistent and accelerating growth on the buying/downloading side with their industry-leading store and experience with music downloads and movie rentals, etc. This is where the money is for the developers and this is what serves the customer, which in turn leads to even more growth.
Itunes most definitely has a stronghold on the digital media distribution market, that is for sure. Although I don't see much opportunity here for other developers to make money, unless I'm missing something?
Personally I can't stand Itunes (I know, you weren't expecting THAT, right?) because of its proprietary nature. But again, that's just me, and I totally understand how easy it makes everything for so many people.
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Originally Posted by krabbelen
Now, if Google is going to run their store like MS did, then the growth they want to see IS the number of apps alone: because they are fleecing the developer with subscription and submission fees and know that there are few customers who can actually figure out the store, figure out how to delve through all the crap about versions and hardware specs, and after all that, fewer still who will pay the exorbitant prices for that crap.
This one I think is a bit off-base. The Android platform as a whole (the OS, the developer's kit, etc.) is open-source. Google offers it all for free. No one pays Google to develop on Android. Plus, since Android is Linux based, there are many, many people out there who are familiar with the operating system and know how to program for it. And as I said before, now that the Droid and N1 are bringing Android into the mainstream I think the platform will stabilize. But who knows, I've been wrong at least once before (probably in this post) .
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Originally Posted by krabbelen
The author implies (and he has several articles on this) that the gap will only increase since everything Apple does is reinforcing its one mobile platform while Google does not seem to care that they are fragmenting theirs. There may be lots of apps on the Android store, but each potential customer can only use a given percentage of them depending on his phone, Android version and carrier; even apps that would work on a given hardware configuration will not be as readily useable since the OS version may be stuck until Google gets around to dealing with the carrier -- by contrast, iPhone OS updates are pushed out universally and ready for you when you synch with iTunes. This means that each Android customer cannot just browse the store and download just anything that strikes his fancy.
Please see my opinions about Google's strategy above.
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Originally Posted by krabbelen
I have an iPod Touch and over 300 active apps in my iTunes library. I could download new apps all day long. I could do nothing but try out new apps all day long. Fortunately, I have some self-control and allow myself iTunes app sessions just a couple of times a month. I might download 20 or thirty apps in one go, that I have heard about or read a review of on a blog. If I just browsed iTunes app store on these occasions, I could easily happily spend hours and download hundreds of new apps.
Neat. (Sorry, I'm getting tired.)
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Originally Posted by krabbelen
Despite the billions of iPhone apps downloaded, not everyone with an iPhone or iPod Touch can yet relate to my interest in new apps -- my dad can't (he isn't into finding new apps yet, though he loves his iPhone). Yet he is now browsing iTunes with his new Apple TV. So, the potential for even more incredible growth is there just waiting to explode.
Apple most definitely has their business model in place (keep everything straight-forward, easy to use, and wrap it up nice and pretty) and that is perfect for so many people. I just like at least a little bit of freedom (or customization, or options, or whatever you'd like to call it).
P.P.S. Why do Iphone and [insert-Iphone-killer-name-here] owners constantly try to put one another down? Why can't we all just say that we love our phones, whichever one it is that we own, and having cell phone service providers/manufacturers/OS developers compete for our hard-earned money is great for all of us! In one, or two, or three years, when it comes time to renew our contracts, just think of the excellent options we'll have because of the market competitions taking place right now.
I just bought a new phone and I'm already excited!
I have Backgrounder installed right now with the latest version of Proswitcher. It is a barely tolerable and slow solution. Also because of ram limits, it simply dumps whatever apps it wants to with regard to keeping background tasks open and since Apple demands certain tasks always remaining running, it allows (realistically) one real third party app to remain open.
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Originally Posted by solipsism
Anything more than 4 pages is too much for me to bother with. Perhaps Apple thought that most people aren?t going to even come close to 11 pages and so stopped after adding those extra four. I would expect an improved system to be released this summer.
I'm thinking your right and also share the same view about the four pages. How fun is it to really scroll ten times to get to an app you want to use? We have the same opinion here.
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Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
I'm already using T-Mo, so I have nothing to lose. Also, I'm not particularly interested in 3G, just a marginally better phone than the one I'm using now.
I've used T-mobile as well and wonder how it is that you care nothing about 3G. I obviously care nothing about it because I bought a 2G phone to play with and hack around on. But I couldn't imagine having a 3G or 3Gs and just leaving the features unavailable.
You know what's really funny, other than your post? ... the iPhone is selling at an ever increasing rate, ... despite missing out on your single purchase ... maybe SJ actually knows what he is doing .... go figure.
Or maybe he's just one of millions who would buy an iphone but refuse to switch to AT&T so they'll buy another phone for their respective carrier.
Apple has done it nearly everywhere else, its only reasonable to expect it to happen soon...if it comes to TMo I know my friend is gonna be pissed he just left them after having their loyalty plan for the 3GS lol
I have Backgrounder installed right now with the latest version of Proswitcher. It is a barely tolerable and slow solution. Also because of ram limits, it simply dumps whatever apps it wants to with regard to keeping background tasks open and since Apple demands certain tasks always remaining running, it allows (realistically) one real third party app to remain open.
Do you have a 3GS? I don’t have it installed on my 3GS but did with my 3G. The results you have remind me of my 3G iPhone with background apps. 128MB simply isn’t enough with iPhone OS taking up about 45MB for the OS, not including any native or 3rd-party apps. With the 3GS’ 256MB there is 84MB free and inactive even with the iPod playing a high-quality classical piece chosen for it’s compleity and because it’s ALAC, with Push MM mail and the 3rd-party PNS running.
RAM-wise, that should be plenty for the average extra app or two. How well the Cortex-A8 and Backgrounder app can balance multiple apps that are all built to run in the foreground is a different story.
Yes, but when will that be? Can Apple afford to just update annually, now that more and more competitors are entering the fray?
If it means the difference between releasing something that is well executed vs. something that is buggy and not ready, they can't afford to release annually on a schedule if they aren't ready.
And they won't. That's the difference. Apple pretty much resists releasing on a schedule, or against a checklist of features. That's what makes them successful. As soon as they become a slave to either the checklist nazi's or the pundit's release schedule they become just another vendor focused on the wrong thing instead of what's important (the customers experience!)
here are lotsa smart people not working in Cupertino and lots of capital being invested in non-Apple efforts. And if there's a giant corporation people have as much positive attachment to as Apple, it's Google.
I disagree. Google, like Microsoft, coasts on a cash cow that it blundered into. For Google, it's search advertising revenue. That's it. They, like Microsoft, are a one trick pony. Like Microsoft, it's a big trick - but it's a single important revenue stream none-the-less.
So far they haven't shown they have a clue on how to be successful in the mobile space. Apple is successful because of their relentless drive for the end user experience - and not just on the device, but the entire experience (i.e. making AT&T agree to alter their service to support visual voicemail, the Apple stores, etc.) Right now the key differentiator for the Android (other then it being Google! and Verizon!) is the upgraded Map app. So what if Apple releases their own Map app? Nothing that google is doing is special - indeed, after using Google maps and getting bad directions on routine basis if that's what Google is using for their updated app on Android no thanks - I'll stick with companies like Navigon or TomTom that actually focus on routing algorithms as part of their core business.
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I'd be guilty of the reverse bias if I compared what happened last time Apple had market share, mind share and unified platform/software advantage, i.e., the time just before the Apple II got crushed by a motley bunch of manufacturers with inconsistent implementations running multiple versions of an buggy, immature operating system from Microsoft.
Apple of the 90's is nothing like Apple today. Mobile devices are the next big thing beyond personal computers, and Apple is there and they actually have a plan and are executing on all cylinders.
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Still, they're not invulnerable and Msr. Jobs will retire someday - and his personal charisma, however tightly he's still able to hold the reins and how much mojo he personally brings to the office these days, is Apple's greatest public asset.
While Jobs is an undeniable influence, I do think his sole importance tends to be overblown.
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And the iWhatever could yet turn into a solution looking for a problem and be the next Newton - really, really cool but not a mass success, or the 4G iPhone could just be a warmover (that's happened with Apple refreshes before as well) and the public is fickle.
Sure, it could. Even though I owned a Newton and still miss some aspects of it, remember the Newton was Scully's baby and one of the first things Steve killed when he got back. The handwriting recognition worked much better then people who never owned one or used one for any period of time made fun of. Each iPhone release has been a bigger success then the last, and if the tablet is released it's a save bet to assume it will be huge success as well.
The MacBook Air was universally panned (and hard!) by the tech press and the blogosphere - yet it's been high on the Amazon charts from day one.
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Or not. I'm just sayin' I'll still read Prince's articles, but more for the facts he pulls together than for his often over-extrapolated conjectures on same.
He writes for a fanboi site - what do you expect? Just filter out the obvious over the top stuff and move on.
Or don't read his articles.
Honestly I don't understand why so many people get worked up over his articles. He's up front about what they are - either read and enjoy them or don't. But the continual whining about his writing style is beyond tired at this point \
Do you have a 3GS? I don?t have it installed on my 3GS but did with my 3G. The results you have remind me of my 3G iPhone with background apps. 128MB simply isn?t enough with iPhone OS taking up about 45MB for the OS, not including any native or 3rd-party apps. With the 3GS? 256MB there is 84MB free and inactive even with the iPod playing a high-quality classical piece chosen for it?s compleity and because it?s ALAC, with Push MM mail and the 3rd-party PNS running.
RAM-wise, that should be plenty for the average extra app or two. How well the Cortex-A8 and Backgrounder app can balance multiple apps that are all built to run in the foreground is a different story.
No I stated pretty clearly that I have an iPhone 2g. The real point though is that while it is a pretty decent hack, one that I have employed myself, it isn't true multitasking. The combination of it and Music Controls will give me background Pandora without any real interruptions. But my typical nerdvana is messed up when browsing and having to SMS at the same time. I've even got BiteSMS installed to deal with 90% of it of that as well but occasionally still have to quit the browser and go to the app so that I can deal with something.
The real point is that Apple should be the leader and now we are reduced to saying that if you jailbreak, install backgrounder, pro-switcher, music controls and BiteSMS (or something similar) you can almost get what you have on Android or even what I know I do with my Storm.
Unless developers are the majority purchasers of the phone, their wants are pretty much useless at this point.
It's not about the developer, it's about the user.
Having said that, I think you are discounting what Apple has - they have a pretty compelling and mature developer environment. If they didn't, you wouldn't see the kinds of Apps that are being produced.
So you can hang on to open source and superior hardware all you want but in the end they don't mean squat if the rest of the equation sucks - or doesn't even stand up to what Apple provides as part of the whole package. Individual parts aren't going to cut it - you have to compete with the whole iPhone ecosystem if you hope to surpass it. So far no one else seems to have a coherent plan other then shouting random thoughts like "It's the network" or "our hardware has more features" or "our software is open source". Most people could care less about any one of those individual components. It's only when geeks gather in places like this with other geeks (see internet echo chamber) that the importance of all this techie jargon matters. I guarantee you most of my friends or family couldn't care less about 98% of what is being argued in this thread.
That, in a nutshell, is why Apple is (and unless some major attitudes change, will continue to be) successful.
No I stated pretty clearly that I have an iPhone 2g. The real point though is that while it is a pretty decent hack, one that I have employed myself, it isn't true multitasking. The combination of it and Music Controls will give me background Pandora without any real interruptions. But my typical nerdvana is messed up when browsing and having to SMS at the same time. I've even got BiteSMS installed to deal with 90% of it of that as well but occasionally still have to quit the browser and go to the app so that I can deal with something.
The real point is that Apple should be the leader and now we are reduced to saying that if you jailbreak, install backgrounder, pro-switcher, music controls and BiteSMS (or something similar) you can almost get what you have on Android or even what I know I do with my Storm.
1) You did, but under your reply to SpamSandwich, which I merely skimmed over missing your comment about the HW you have.
2) The original and 3G have the same CPU type and RAM amount so those results should be identical, perhaps even a little worse in the 3G when processing more data from HSDPA as opposed to EDGE.
3) As you and I have both seen, the first two iPhones simply can’t do background apps feasibly just as they can’t do video feasibly despite there technically being a video camera app for the first two iPhones.
4) Some argue that much older phones have background apps with less RAM and this true, but these phones aren’t nearly as powerful or resource hungry as OS X is for the iPhone.
5) I fully expect iPhone OS v4.0 getting background capabilities and that is will likely only be for the 3GS onward, due to the very real RAM limitation. I also expect this to be an API like the Push Notification Service that developers choose which apps and which services for their apps are allowed to run in the background and the user will choose which app(s) from a list in settings to have run in the background when they press the Home Button. This is the only method that makes sense to me at this point.
6) With Apple’s acquisition of Lala I wonder if they’ll add a streaming service to their iPod app. This would alleviate most of the complaints i hear from people about background apps, which to run Pandora the way the iPod app runs in the background. Even if they do that I also expect intelligent backgrounder app to be included with the next OS version. Slapping in some code to make all apps run in the background and requiring manual shutting down of apps simply isn’t the way to go here.
THe analogy with Play for Sure is interesting. If google kills droid (with this launch on the heels of the Verizon's does machine) it will also kill itself. Feels like the wrong move, or the wrong strategy. All of attention should have been on Droid, if only to make it special and attractive. Now attention is split, which is bad for the platform.
If google wanted a pure phone, it should have been Droid, since it seemed from all the ads and buzz that Droid will be revolutionary device. That it will be google's all out OS effort, plus amazing hardware from MOTO to make a comeback, plus Verizon's service which was gonna blow everyone away. Instead we got another Palm pre.
IF Nexus One is the way Google hopes to stop splintering, then it should have been fully made by Google, with manufacturer's name not even mentioned and ran a moded and differentiated version of Android, something like G-roid or something, with different logo, boot screen and general feel. That way we could have had unsplintered phone from google (unlocked and unified) or get regular splintered android from your local carrier.
Anyway, Android is starting to look like WinMo, which is sad news for Google, the anti microsoft.
Sorry for venting
OOOOO PS: Nexus One should have been a VoiP Operated phone (Through google voice), which would come with data plan only, kinda like a netbook.
1) You did, but under your reply to SpamSandwich, which I merely skimmed over missing your comment about the HW you have.
2) The original and 3G have the same CPU type and RAM amount so those results should be identical, perhaps even a little worse in the 3G when processing more data from HSDPA as opposed to EDGE.
3) As you and I have both seen, the first two iPhones simply can?t do background apps feasibly just as they can?t do video feasibly despite there technically being a video camera app for the first two iPhones.
4) Some argue that much older phones have background apps with less RAM and this true, but these phones aren?t nearly as powerful or resource hungry as OS X is for the iPhone.
I definately see your point but also wonder if a little more programming magic wouldn't solve the problem. The G1 appears to do well but it does have a bit more ram from what I understand. My own set up does well but the issue has more to do with the various hacks banging together at odd ways periodically or it just being a bit clunky due to not being official. As an example if Pandora is merely backgrounded, it ends up quitting due to the ram limitation within backgrounder. If I add music controls something within that gives it the same priority as running the iPod program. It doesn't skip. It doesn't quit and it I have no problems with it. So clearly part of this is just Apple cleaning up and endorsing a solution. Likewise they might have to give up on the home button. Exactly how many times can we tap it to still add something?
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5) I fully expect iPhone OS v4.0 getting background capabilities and that is will likely only be for the 3GS onward, due to the very real RAM limitation. I also expect this to be an API like the Push Notification Service that developers choose which apps and which services for their apps are allowed to run in the background and the user will choose which app(s) from a list in settings to have run in the background when they press the Home Button. This is the only method that makes sense to me at this point.
I have no doubt that even if they could add it to the prior iPhones, they probably won't. What better to inspire shiny new sales than shiny new features.
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6) With Apple?s acquisition of Lala I wonder if they?ll add a streaming service to their iPod app. This would alleviate most of the complaints i hear from people about background apps, which to run Pandora the way the iPod app runs in the background. Even if they do that I also expect intelligent backgrounder app to be included with the next OS version. Slapping in some code to make all apps run in the background and requiring manual shutting down of apps simply isn?t the way to go here.
It isn't just about streaming music Pandora is very good at what it does in terms of finding new music for you. Apple has their genius mechanism but I have songs I have purchased that it can't make recommendations on that Pandora has actually recommended to me. We are talking about very little known bands that it has found for me. There is a reason everyone wants to stream Pandora. Also Apple needs to be a good citizen. It isn't about if they can out compete everyone in every endeavor. It should be about them being the best platform for all the talent to want to do their magic on. The very real fear is that Android seems to be getting this buzz. We don't want Apple to become Microsoft in that they have to beat everyone at everything.
Comments
Just FYI, this is only true for CDMA carriers with calls placed over 'the cell voice network' when no wifi is present. Fortunately, Android phones can make/receive VOIP calls over 3G without jailbreaking. Also, with Google Voice, inbound calls can be transferred without the other caller even knowing. Freedom...
Since you are deflecting the complaint about simultaneous data and voice by qualifying the circumstances, then it is only fair that you qualify the circumstances in your subsequent jab at the iPhone. To whit, I think the fact that you can't make VOIP calls over 3G without jailbreaking is more due to Apple's agreement with various carriers than anything else. Obviously, it is possible, and obviously they could allow it in a heartbeat -- since, similarly, certain carriers around the world allow tethering, while others do not.
Rather than using this to prove that Apple loves to curtail your personal freedom, feel free to reflect on how much freedom you would have with your carrier and with your phone and platform, if that combination happened to be responsible for 50% of the mobile data usage on the planet. And this, only because it was so dang easy and fun to do, despite the grey cloud and absolute bitter resentment you must feel every iPhone user walks around under, all the while dwelling on the almost palpable curtailment to his most cherished freedoms that he inevitable feels at every turn.
I'm sorry that you go around feeling that way about the iPhone -- must be a real downer for your freedoms, having to congratulate yourself everytime you see someone happily using an iPhone. Because it is sure to happen a lot.
anyone know why there is an 11 page limit to apps installed on the iphone. i've only had the iphone for 1 month and i've hit the limit already with 14GB of space left! i can play musical chairs with the syncing between itunes and the iphone but that is inconvenient. it's like what is the point of having 200,000 or 1 million apps in the app store but you can only install 176 apps with around16 apps taken by apple already. 176 divided by 200,000 is 0.00088 or .088%!!!
1) The point of any store is to offer items you may want to buy, not expect everyone to want every item from that store. Most App Store items don?t appeal to my needs.
2) There is an 11 page limit but there is no known limit as to the number of apps you can install. You can find non-listed apps by using the search feature.
3) You aren?t accounting for free trail v. full apps, multiple version of the same app types for different categories, apps for specific religions, genders, life choices, etc. Frankly, I?m surprised you?ve found over 11 pages of apps that you want to have with you all the time.
4) I have four pages and they aren?t full. I use different pages for categorizing. Hopefully Apple will offer a hierarchal folder system for v4.0.
1) The point of any store is to offer items you may want to buy, not expect everyone to want every item from that store. Most App Store items don?t appeal to my needs.
2) There is an 11 page limit but there is no known limit as to the number of apps you can install. You can find non-listed apps by using the search feature.
3) You aren?t accounting for free trail v. full apps, multiple version of the same app types for different categories, apps for specific religions, genders, life choices, etc. Frankly, I?m surprised you?ve found over 11 pages of apps that you want to have with you all the time.
4) I have four pages and they aren?t full. I use different pages for categorizing. Hopefully Apple will offer a hierarchal folder system for v4.0.
i have 3 pages worth of game already, then 1 each for messaging/social, shopping, traveling, tools, education, lookups (encyclopedias, stocks, etc), news, apple's default apps. so it adds up pretty quickly.
the ideal number of pages for me would be about 20. i like the ways the apps are layed out, it just seems like a strange artificial limit.
i have 3 pages worth of game already, then 1 each for messaging/social, shopping, traveling, tools, education, lookups (encyclopedias, stocks, etc), news, apple's default apps. so it adds up pretty quickly.
the ideal number of pages for me would be about 20. i like the ways the apps are layed out, it just seems like a strange artificial limit.
I really don?t know why they have 11 pages. I think they first had 7 pages with v2.0.
Why is 20 pages ideal? It sounds like you are just choosing it because it?s 2 x 10. If there are 150k apps then you?d need 9,375 pages to get through them all. That would take forever.
Anything more than 4 pages is too much for me to bother with. Perhaps Apple thought that most people aren?t going to even come close to 11 pages and so stopped after adding those extra four. I would expect an improved system to be released this summer.
anyone know why there is an 11 page limit to apps installed on the iphone. i've only had the iphone for 1 month and i've hit the limit already with 14GB of space left! i can play musical chairs with the syncing between itunes and the iphone but that is inconvenient. it's like what is the point of having 200,000 or 1 million apps in the app store but you can only install 176 apps with around16 apps taken by apple already. 176 divided by 200,000 is 0.00088 or .088%!!!
most likely it's a RAM issue
do you use all the apps? i'm always deleting apps i don't use. my most used ones are the kids apps. my 2 year old just figured out how to switch between his apps if he gets bored with one.
Droid = copyrighted name for the CDMA version of the Milestone, exclusive to Verizon,
The Google Voice beta program does not extend to Australia or many countries outside the US.
Actually any Android phone on Verizon is called a Droid. Hence the Droid Eris.
I'll be buying a Nexus One if I can buy it unlocked and use it on T-mo. Sorry, Steve. You need to end exclusivity... and fast.
You know what's really funny, other than your post? ... the iPhone is selling at an ever increasing rate, ... despite missing out on your single purchase ... maybe SJ actually knows what he is doing .... go figure.
Then, obviously, the author's idea of what constitutes growth is different than yours. Just sayin'.
I was not trying to prove a point that the Android Market grew more than the Apple App Store, I was simply saying that the author's words were directly contradicting the chart cited in his article. I further explained myself in post #17 and shouldn't have to again for your benefit; facts are facts. And I apologize for using slang in my original post (i.e. just sayin'). I only meant to reinforce what I thought was an obvious error.
One would think that the sheer number of apps would increase quite quickly in the Android store, maybe for a variety of reasons: maybe there are thousands and thousands of developers all over the world that have traditionally developed apps for WinMo, Symbian, Java, etc. and are jumping on the new, hyped platform; maybe all the apps that got submitted to various stores opened by different phone manufacturers and different carriers all finally got submitted to the flagship store; whatever. One would hope that the apps are there with all this talk about how great Android will be and how all the phone manufacturers and carriers are going to get on board.
An obvious measure of real "growth" is not how many variations of a fart app a developer can come up with, but the real use of the store by customers. The author does well to recognize this. Everyone was surprised, probably most of all Apple, that there are 100,000 apps in the iTunes store.
While true, this really only strengthens the argument for Android's Market. How many of the 150,000+ apps from Apple's store are unique? Of course any application store for any platform will have redundancies, but the great thing about the Android Market is that it is not restricted and allows you to make your phone yours. Don't like the default home screen? Grab a replacement. Don't like the size, color, or name of any of the shortcuts on your home screen? Grab an app that will change them. I feel that this is "the real use of the store by customers," to do what they want to do with their phone and not have its basic functionality controlled by the manufacturer.
As for everything else, the Android Market is developing so quickly that for any app on the Apple Store (aside from games, Apple wins there,[for now
And Apple wasn't surprised they had over 100,000 apps in their store, they reviewed and approved every single one.
Furthermore, an iPhone app developer need only produce one version of his app, instead of multiple versions for umpteen different phone configurations.
This is a great point. Android app developers do have a much bigger task if they want their product to be as widespread as possible. I think that Google is banking on the Droid and the upcoming N1 to popularize and stabilize the Android platform, and give developers a baseline for future development.
However, it is not so surprising that Apple can maintain consistent and accelerating growth on the buying/downloading side with their industry-leading store and experience with music downloads and movie rentals, etc. This is where the money is for the developers and this is what serves the customer, which in turn leads to even more growth.
Itunes most definitely has a stronghold on the digital media distribution market, that is for sure. Although I don't see much opportunity here for other developers to make money, unless I'm missing something?
Personally I can't stand Itunes (I know, you weren't expecting THAT, right?
Now, if Google is going to run their store like MS did, then the growth they want to see IS the number of apps alone: because they are fleecing the developer with subscription and submission fees and know that there are few customers who can actually figure out the store, figure out how to delve through all the crap about versions and hardware specs, and after all that, fewer still who will pay the exorbitant prices for that crap.
This one I think is a bit off-base. The Android platform as a whole (the OS, the developer's kit, etc.) is open-source. Google offers it all for free. No one pays Google to develop on Android. Plus, since Android is Linux based, there are many, many people out there who are familiar with the operating system and know how to program for it. And as I said before, now that the Droid and N1 are bringing Android into the mainstream I think the platform will stabilize. But who knows, I've been wrong at least once before (probably in this post)
The author implies (and he has several articles on this) that the gap will only increase since everything Apple does is reinforcing its one mobile platform while Google does not seem to care that they are fragmenting theirs. There may be lots of apps on the Android store, but each potential customer can only use a given percentage of them depending on his phone, Android version and carrier; even apps that would work on a given hardware configuration will not be as readily useable since the OS version may be stuck until Google gets around to dealing with the carrier -- by contrast, iPhone OS updates are pushed out universally and ready for you when you synch with iTunes. This means that each Android customer cannot just browse the store and download just anything that strikes his fancy.
Please see my opinions about Google's strategy above.
I have an iPod Touch and over 300 active apps in my iTunes library. I could download new apps all day long. I could do nothing but try out new apps all day long. Fortunately, I have some self-control and allow myself iTunes app sessions just a couple of times a month. I might download 20 or thirty apps in one go, that I have heard about or read a review of on a blog. If I just browsed iTunes app store on these occasions, I could easily happily spend hours and download hundreds of new apps.
Neat. (Sorry, I'm getting tired.)
Despite the billions of iPhone apps downloaded, not everyone with an iPhone or iPod Touch can yet relate to my interest in new apps -- my dad can't (he isn't into finding new apps yet, though he loves his iPhone). Yet he is now browsing iTunes with his new Apple TV. So, the potential for even more incredible growth is there just waiting to explode.
Apple most definitely has their business model in place (keep everything straight-forward, easy to use, and wrap it up nice and pretty) and that is perfect for so many people. I just like at least a little bit of freedom (or customization, or options, or whatever you'd like to call it).
P.S. Apple has a TV service now??
I just bought a new phone and I'm already excited!
Solution 1: Jailbreak iPhone, install Backgrounder.
Solution 2: Don?t run 3rd-party apps on iPhone.
I have Backgrounder installed right now with the latest version of Proswitcher. It is a barely tolerable and slow solution. Also because of ram limits, it simply dumps whatever apps it wants to with regard to keeping background tasks open and since Apple demands certain tasks always remaining running, it allows (realistically) one real third party app to remain open.
Anything more than 4 pages is too much for me to bother with. Perhaps Apple thought that most people aren?t going to even come close to 11 pages and so stopped after adding those extra four. I would expect an improved system to be released this summer.
I'm thinking your right and also share the same view about the four pages. How fun is it to really scroll ten times to get to an app you want to use? We have the same opinion here.
I'm already using T-Mo, so I have nothing to lose. Also, I'm not particularly interested in 3G, just a marginally better phone than the one I'm using now.
I've used T-mobile as well and wonder how it is that you care nothing about 3G. I obviously care nothing about it because I bought a 2G phone to play with and hack around on. But I couldn't imagine having a 3G or 3Gs and just leaving the features unavailable.
You know what's really funny, other than your post? ... the iPhone is selling at an ever increasing rate, ... despite missing out on your single purchase ... maybe SJ actually knows what he is doing .... go figure.
Or maybe he's just one of millions who would buy an iphone but refuse to switch to AT&T so they'll buy another phone for their respective carrier.
Apple has done it nearly everywhere else, its only reasonable to expect it to happen soon...if it comes to TMo I know my friend is gonna be pissed he just left them after having their loyalty plan for the 3GS lol
I have Backgrounder installed right now with the latest version of Proswitcher. It is a barely tolerable and slow solution. Also because of ram limits, it simply dumps whatever apps it wants to with regard to keeping background tasks open and since Apple demands certain tasks always remaining running, it allows (realistically) one real third party app to remain open.
Do you have a 3GS? I don’t have it installed on my 3GS but did with my 3G. The results you have remind me of my 3G iPhone with background apps. 128MB simply isn’t enough with iPhone OS taking up about 45MB for the OS, not including any native or 3rd-party apps. With the 3GS’ 256MB there is 84MB free and inactive even with the iPod playing a high-quality classical piece chosen for it’s compleity and because it’s ALAC, with Push MM mail and the 3rd-party PNS running.RAM-wise, that should be plenty for the average extra app or two. How well the Cortex-A8 and Backgrounder app can balance multiple apps that are all built to run in the foreground is a different story.
Yes, but when will that be? Can Apple afford to just update annually, now that more and more competitors are entering the fray?
If it means the difference between releasing something that is well executed vs. something that is buggy and not ready, they can't afford to release annually on a schedule if they aren't ready.
And they won't. That's the difference. Apple pretty much resists releasing on a schedule, or against a checklist of features. That's what makes them successful. As soon as they become a slave to either the checklist nazi's or the pundit's release schedule they become just another vendor focused on the wrong thing instead of what's important (the customers experience!)
I'm not worried about them slipping
here are lotsa smart people not working in Cupertino and lots of capital being invested in non-Apple efforts. And if there's a giant corporation people have as much positive attachment to as Apple, it's Google.
I disagree. Google, like Microsoft, coasts on a cash cow that it blundered into. For Google, it's search advertising revenue. That's it. They, like Microsoft, are a one trick pony. Like Microsoft, it's a big trick - but it's a single important revenue stream none-the-less.
So far they haven't shown they have a clue on how to be successful in the mobile space. Apple is successful because of their relentless drive for the end user experience - and not just on the device, but the entire experience (i.e. making AT&T agree to alter their service to support visual voicemail, the Apple stores, etc.) Right now the key differentiator for the Android (other then it being Google! and Verizon!) is the upgraded Map app. So what if Apple releases their own Map app? Nothing that google is doing is special - indeed, after using Google maps and getting bad directions on routine basis if that's what Google is using for their updated app on Android no thanks - I'll stick with companies like Navigon or TomTom that actually focus on routing algorithms as part of their core business.
I'd be guilty of the reverse bias if I compared what happened last time Apple had market share, mind share and unified platform/software advantage, i.e., the time just before the Apple II got crushed by a motley bunch of manufacturers with inconsistent implementations running multiple versions of an buggy, immature operating system from Microsoft.
Apple of the 90's is nothing like Apple today. Mobile devices are the next big thing beyond personal computers, and Apple is there and they actually have a plan and are executing on all cylinders.
Still, they're not invulnerable and Msr. Jobs will retire someday - and his personal charisma, however tightly he's still able to hold the reins and how much mojo he personally brings to the office these days, is Apple's greatest public asset.
While Jobs is an undeniable influence, I do think his sole importance tends to be overblown.
And the iWhatever could yet turn into a solution looking for a problem and be the next Newton - really, really cool but not a mass success, or the 4G iPhone could just be a warmover (that's happened with Apple refreshes before as well) and the public is fickle.
Sure, it could. Even though I owned a Newton and still miss some aspects of it, remember the Newton was Scully's baby and one of the first things Steve killed when he got back. The handwriting recognition worked much better then people who never owned one or used one for any period of time made fun of. Each iPhone release has been a bigger success then the last, and if the tablet is released it's a save bet to assume it will be huge success as well.
The MacBook Air was universally panned (and hard!) by the tech press and the blogosphere - yet it's been high on the Amazon charts from day one.
Or not. I'm just sayin' I'll still read Prince's articles, but more for the facts he pulls together than for his often over-extrapolated conjectures on same.
He writes for a fanboi site - what do you expect? Just filter out the obvious over the top stuff and move on.
Or don't read his articles.
Honestly I don't understand why so many people get worked up over his articles. He's up front about what they are - either read and enjoy them or don't. But the continual whining about his writing style is beyond tired at this point
Do you have a 3GS? I don?t have it installed on my 3GS but did with my 3G. The results you have remind me of my 3G iPhone with background apps. 128MB simply isn?t enough with iPhone OS taking up about 45MB for the OS, not including any native or 3rd-party apps. With the 3GS? 256MB there is 84MB free and inactive even with the iPod playing a high-quality classical piece chosen for it?s compleity and because it?s ALAC, with Push MM mail and the 3rd-party PNS running.
RAM-wise, that should be plenty for the average extra app or two. How well the Cortex-A8 and Backgrounder app can balance multiple apps that are all built to run in the foreground is a different story.
No I stated pretty clearly that I have an iPhone 2g. The real point though is that while it is a pretty decent hack, one that I have employed myself, it isn't true multitasking. The combination of it and Music Controls will give me background Pandora without any real interruptions. But my typical nerdvana is messed up when browsing and having to SMS at the same time. I've even got BiteSMS installed to deal with 90% of it of that as well but occasionally still have to quit the browser and go to the app so that I can deal with something.
The real point is that Apple should be the leader and now we are reduced to saying that if you jailbreak, install backgrounder, pro-switcher, music controls and BiteSMS (or something similar) you can almost get what you have on Android or even what I know I do with my Storm.
And app developers will also like
Unless developers are the majority purchasers of the phone, their wants are pretty much useless at this point.
It's not about the developer, it's about the user.
Having said that, I think you are discounting what Apple has - they have a pretty compelling and mature developer environment. If they didn't, you wouldn't see the kinds of Apps that are being produced.
So you can hang on to open source and superior hardware all you want but in the end they don't mean squat if the rest of the equation sucks - or doesn't even stand up to what Apple provides as part of the whole package. Individual parts aren't going to cut it - you have to compete with the whole iPhone ecosystem if you hope to surpass it. So far no one else seems to have a coherent plan other then shouting random thoughts like "It's the network" or "our hardware has more features" or "our software is open source". Most people could care less about any one of those individual components. It's only when geeks gather in places like this with other geeks (see internet echo chamber) that the importance of all this techie jargon matters. I guarantee you most of my friends or family couldn't care less about 98% of what is being argued in this thread.
That, in a nutshell, is why Apple is (and unless some major attitudes change, will continue to be) successful.
No I stated pretty clearly that I have an iPhone 2g. The real point though is that while it is a pretty decent hack, one that I have employed myself, it isn't true multitasking. The combination of it and Music Controls will give me background Pandora without any real interruptions. But my typical nerdvana is messed up when browsing and having to SMS at the same time. I've even got BiteSMS installed to deal with 90% of it of that as well but occasionally still have to quit the browser and go to the app so that I can deal with something.
The real point is that Apple should be the leader and now we are reduced to saying that if you jailbreak, install backgrounder, pro-switcher, music controls and BiteSMS (or something similar) you can almost get what you have on Android or even what I know I do with my Storm.
1) You did, but under your reply to SpamSandwich, which I merely skimmed over missing your comment about the HW you have.
2) The original and 3G have the same CPU type and RAM amount so those results should be identical, perhaps even a little worse in the 3G when processing more data from HSDPA as opposed to EDGE.
3) As you and I have both seen, the first two iPhones simply can’t do background apps feasibly just as they can’t do video feasibly despite there technically being a video camera app for the first two iPhones.
4) Some argue that much older phones have background apps with less RAM and this true, but these phones aren’t nearly as powerful or resource hungry as OS X is for the iPhone.
5) I fully expect iPhone OS v4.0 getting background capabilities and that is will likely only be for the 3GS onward, due to the very real RAM limitation. I also expect this to be an API like the Push Notification Service that developers choose which apps and which services for their apps are allowed to run in the background and the user will choose which app(s) from a list in settings to have run in the background when they press the Home Button. This is the only method that makes sense to me at this point.
6) With Apple’s acquisition of Lala I wonder if they’ll add a streaming service to their iPod app. This would alleviate most of the complaints i hear from people about background apps, which to run Pandora the way the iPod app runs in the background. Even if they do that I also expect intelligent backgrounder app to be included with the next OS version. Slapping in some code to make all apps run in the background and requiring manual shutting down of apps simply isn’t the way to go here.
If google wanted a pure phone, it should have been Droid, since it seemed from all the ads and buzz that Droid will be revolutionary device. That it will be google's all out OS effort, plus amazing hardware from MOTO to make a comeback, plus Verizon's service which was gonna blow everyone away. Instead we got another Palm pre.
IF Nexus One is the way Google hopes to stop splintering, then it should have been fully made by Google, with manufacturer's name not even mentioned and ran a moded and differentiated version of Android, something like G-roid or something, with different logo, boot screen and general feel. That way we could have had unsplintered phone from google (unlocked and unified) or get regular splintered android from your local carrier.
Anyway, Android is starting to look like WinMo, which is sad news for Google, the anti microsoft.
Sorry for venting
OOOOO PS: Nexus One should have been a VoiP Operated phone (Through google voice), which would come with data plan only, kinda like a netbook.
1) You did, but under your reply to SpamSandwich, which I merely skimmed over missing your comment about the HW you have.
2) The original and 3G have the same CPU type and RAM amount so those results should be identical, perhaps even a little worse in the 3G when processing more data from HSDPA as opposed to EDGE.
3) As you and I have both seen, the first two iPhones simply can?t do background apps feasibly just as they can?t do video feasibly despite there technically being a video camera app for the first two iPhones.
4) Some argue that much older phones have background apps with less RAM and this true, but these phones aren?t nearly as powerful or resource hungry as OS X is for the iPhone.
I definately see your point but also wonder if a little more programming magic wouldn't solve the problem. The G1 appears to do well but it does have a bit more ram from what I understand. My own set up does well but the issue has more to do with the various hacks banging together at odd ways periodically or it just being a bit clunky due to not being official. As an example if Pandora is merely backgrounded, it ends up quitting due to the ram limitation within backgrounder. If I add music controls something within that gives it the same priority as running the iPod program. It doesn't skip. It doesn't quit and it I have no problems with it. So clearly part of this is just Apple cleaning up and endorsing a solution. Likewise they might have to give up on the home button. Exactly how many times can we tap it to still add something?
5) I fully expect iPhone OS v4.0 getting background capabilities and that is will likely only be for the 3GS onward, due to the very real RAM limitation. I also expect this to be an API like the Push Notification Service that developers choose which apps and which services for their apps are allowed to run in the background and the user will choose which app(s) from a list in settings to have run in the background when they press the Home Button. This is the only method that makes sense to me at this point.
I have no doubt that even if they could add it to the prior iPhones, they probably won't. What better to inspire shiny new sales than shiny new features.
6) With Apple?s acquisition of Lala I wonder if they?ll add a streaming service to their iPod app. This would alleviate most of the complaints i hear from people about background apps, which to run Pandora the way the iPod app runs in the background. Even if they do that I also expect intelligent backgrounder app to be included with the next OS version. Slapping in some code to make all apps run in the background and requiring manual shutting down of apps simply isn?t the way to go here.
It isn't just about streaming music Pandora is very good at what it does in terms of finding new music for you. Apple has their genius mechanism but I have songs I have purchased that it can't make recommendations on that Pandora has actually recommended to me. We are talking about very little known bands that it has found for me. There is a reason everyone wants to stream Pandora. Also Apple needs to be a good citizen. It isn't about if they can out compete everyone in every endeavor. It should be about them being the best platform for all the talent to want to do their magic on. The very real fear is that Android seems to be getting this buzz. We don't want Apple to become Microsoft in that they have to beat everyone at everything.