i just finished watching the 10 minute video of the Nexus One on Engadget and i must say i am thoroughly impressed. It might not be an iPhone killer by itself but if this is what we are to be expecting from the next year from Android...Apple might need to do a bit more work for wow factor.
The 10 minute video has been removed from YouTube. The short video showcasing 3D graphics is still up. That was the best I?ve seen on a phone. Very responsive UI which we haven?t seen much of from Android.
Can I remind you of this the next time we all say "WOW, Apple's done it again"?
Please do, but it has to pertain exactly to the iPhone mmkay since thats what im talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
The 10 minute video has been removed from YouTube. The short video showcasing 3D graphics is still up. That was the best I?ve seen on a phone. Very responsive UI which we haven?t seen much of from Android.
I agree, the Droid was good but this blows that out the water. The theme effects on the home screen i thought were pretty amazing, and the 3D demo was pretty amazing as well but im pretty sure thats due to the Snapdragon processor since there is a demo of Tekken 3 running on the HD2 as well on Engadget.
While im not hopping ship from BB, i am more intrigued by the Nexus One especially if this is where Google is looking to take the platform
Can I remind you of this the next time we all say "WOW, Apple's done it again"?
It?s seems impossible to me to prove that his post could be incorrect. He gave an opinion that he was impressed, stated no absolutes about what will happen, and them stated "Apple might need to do a bit more work for wow factor? which I assume is pretty true for every product in that they are always doing ?a bit more? all the time.
Yes, it would be great to have both options on the iPhone, like on the Mac (2007).
Garbage collection on Mac is completely irrelevant to iPhone developers (at least for now). While manual memory management help SOME applications to have better performance (not all applications really have any problems with performance, mostly its some games), it is less productive for ALL applications to write them using manual MM. There are other areas of Obj-C where it really look ancient - separate .h files where you have to double the class definition, pointer arithmetics... and XCode is really bad IDE.
On the other hand Cocoa is pretty decent framework. Just wonder why every object starts with NS prefix. If they remove this, how many keystrokes of poor iPhone developers would be saved ? Billions ?
Just him? You think that makes for a valid argument despite Android v2.0 launching over two months ago and the only way to get v2.0 is from a hack? There is word that it may get v2.1 but that isn?t hear yet, I don?t think it?s official and it?s a little late to finally give a phone that is only a year old an update that other devices got. HTC?s planning is about as sound as your argument.
Still your rationale that G1 will NEVER get the 2.0 update is far fetched. What can be said is that having all devices updated to latest version of the OS as soon as possible is clearly not preference for neither Google nor T-Mobile. So what ? Most users are quite happy with the 1.5 version of OS they got with the original G1. At least it comes with Copy&Paste functionality right of the box.
My guess is that before we'll see iPhone 4 all the devices would get the 2.0 update, so the Android platform would be quite homogeneous.
Garbage collection on Mac is completely irrelevant to iPhone developers (at least for now). While manual memory management help SOME applications to have better performance (not all applications really have any problems with performance, mostly its some games), it is less productive for ALL applications to write them using manual MM. There are other areas of Obj-C where it really look ancient - separate .h files where you have to double the class definition, pointer arithmetics... and XCode is really bad IDE.
On the other hand Cocoa is pretty decent framework. Just wonder why every object starts with NS prefix. If they remove this, how many keystrokes of poor iPhone developers would be saved ? Billions ?
To your points:
1. separate declaration
Your right this bothers and I think the IDE could automate or synchronize this.
But it's not an problem that really hurts productivity when you get used to it.
2. XCode is a bad IDE
I'm coming from other languages and systems and I totally disagree.
You will have to get used to it, but it supports the MVC concept in a pretty clear and structured way. I'm used to IDE's with a higher UI integration and it's sometimes hard to get used to it, but I think there are some advantages in getting the code and structured like this when it comes to bigger projects and clean design.
Calling it bad is your personal opinion. I think it's just the result of a different philosophy we have to get used to.
Part of that philosophy is optimization. There are tools like shark and instruments that make it possible to get the "best" out of your code.
You might not worry about this, because your projects do not need this performance tweaks, but for me it was one of the main reasons to begin to learn Objective-C. I think techniques like CLang, LLVM, GCD and OpenCL are all about efficiency. To be honest I'm not sure if my old brain can handle this, but it's a clear vision of high "code-efficiency" for the next years.
If you prefer the more integrated way that's fine. But in this case I think Visual Studio and .Net are the benchmark.
3. Pointers
It's obvious that pointers can lead to buffer-overflows, memory-leaks and memory fragmentation. Even experienced developers run into this troubles.
It's the price for some advantages like more efficient and dynamic memory management. E.g. You can sort elements in a List without having to create new copies.
When you call a function without to have to provide the variable and you can point to a known variable in order to avoid to allocate multiple memory copies.
As far as I know Java is internally working with pointers, but "hides" them.
Not sure if it's possible, but if Apple would find a way to define a similar "auto-pointer" (possible loss of efficiency) for those who need or want it. I'd like it.
4. The NS-Thing
Its historical (Next Step) and it's a common technique to add a prefix in order to mark classes as "mine" or "system".
May be it's possible to configure the IDE to hide/cut the NS-Prefix and append it at compile- or translation-time. This might cause a lot of trouble.
I'm a beginner. Until now I have the experience that using cocoa isn't about typing a lot of code. We would have to ask an experienced cocoa dev, but our billion keystrokes seem to be exaggerated.
5. Garbage Collection
Apple has got two years of experience with it from the Mac. Hard to say how big the memory or performance penalty would be, but I'd be pleased to see it in iPhone SDK 4.
Rather than mounting any real competition to the iPhone 3GS, the Nexus One will immediately make HTC's existing Android phones look long in the tooth
Come on AI, this is real competition for the iPhone. What does it have to do to get some acknowledgment that for consumers this is probably the best other smart phone currently available (or soon to be available)?
Please do, but it has to pertain exactly to the iPhone mmkay since thats what im talking about.
I agree, the Droid was good but this blows that out the water. The theme effects on the home screen i thought were pretty amazing, and the 3D demo was pretty amazing as well but im pretty sure thats due to the Snapdragon processor since there is a demo of Tekken 3 running on the HD2 as well on Engadget.
While im not hopping ship from BB, i am more intrigued by the Nexus One especially if this is where Google is looking to take the platform
You do realize all those "themes" and "effects" are due to Android 2.1 and not some special software only available on the Nexus One, right? The Droid will have all those features on Jan 22 when 2.1 becomes available. Let's keep that in mind, shall we?
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
Still your rationale that G1 will NEVER get the 2.0 update is far fetched. What can be said is that having all devices updated to latest version of the OS as soon as possible is clearly not preference for neither Google nor T-Mobile. So what ?
1) As usual you either don't read before posting or don't comprehend what you are reading. I clearly stated that v2.0 is available for the G1 and that there is word of it officially getting v2.1.
2) Obviously other vendors don't care about, and likely hate the idea of, increasing your usability of your device through regular updates. It's quite silly for you to have a problem with Apple offering rich updates into the third year of iPhone use, unless you work for a company whose profits are dwindling because you can't compete with Apple, then I'd understand your hatred for the iPhone.
You do realize all those "themes" and "effects" are due to Android 2.1 and not some special software only available on the Nexus One, right? The Droid will have all those features on Jan 22 when 2.1 becomes available. Let's keep that in mind, shall we?
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
Will they stick with MotoBlur for the Droid or has HTC, by incorporating TouchFlo 3D into Android, just given away their IP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezatldude
You do realize all those "themes" and "effects" are due to Android 2.1 and not some special software only available on the Nexus One, right? The Droid will have all those features on Jan 22 when 2.1 becomes available. Let's keep that in mind, shall we?
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
I'm beginning to see why some folk react negatively to Prince McClean's articles. They are, as tech posts go, well-written, sometimes exhaustive, pull together lots of disparate info both past and present, but have a slant that always seems to make Apple look a fairly omniscient, all-wise, etc. and this POV brings him to conclusions that go beyond those a less cheerleading observer might reach.
I agree with the basics here but just because you do not like Apple, does not mean that they are always the bad guy. If you read ALL of Prince McLean / Danial Dilger's articles, I think you might come to a different conclusion. Just a thought.
Quote:
There are lotsa smart people not working in Cupertino and lots of capital being invested in non-Apple efforts. And if there's a giant corporation people have as much positive attachment to as Apple, it's Google.
I'd be guilty of the reverse bias if I compared what happened last time Apple had market share, mind share and unified platform/software advantage, i.e., the time just before the Apple II got crushed by a motley bunch of manufacturers with inconsistent implementations running multiple versions of an buggy, immature operating system from Microsoft. Guilty because Apple's not a tiny-start up with a garage feel and has spent 30 years building the best image and the most buzz in the entire tech world, so concluding they will inevitably be dethroned again by the sheer breadth of the competition would be an unjustifiable stretch.
Got it. You do not like Apple. They are bad. They should do better than anyone cause... er .. ou want them to. I would say that with only 10% US market and only 3% world market, their market cap is 75 % that of Microsoft..... Apple is flat out killing everyone out there.
They made TONS of money last year when the other PC makers were just trying to hang on. I would guess that they are doing SOMETHING right. Just a thought.
Quote:
Or not. I'm just sayin' I'll still read Prince's articles, but more for the facts he pulls together than for his often over-extrapolated conjectures on same.
Got it, you do not like Apple. Say good things about Apple and it pisses you off.
Great, buy any Dell stock lately? Hate Apple, buy Dell, or MS (it actually is rising lately. weird). The main point that people bring up today that is negative Apple is they do not like it. Not the products, the company. Just how weird is that.
I hate the parking in Redmond....... Does that mean that Microsoft sucks??? (well yes it does suck, but..... you know what I mean. :-) )
anyone know why there is an 11 page limit to apps installed on the iphone. i've only had the iphone for 1 month and i've hit the limit already with 14GB of space left! i can play musical chairs with the syncing between itunes and the iphone but that is inconvenient. it's like what is the point of having 200,000 or 1 million apps in the app store but you can only install 176 apps with around16 apps taken by apple already. 176 divided by 200,000 is 0.00088 or .088%!!!
If you jailbreak, you can start sorting them into folders. Other than that you're stuck playing musical chairs.
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
Well, one would hope that by the end of a given year each manufacturer, "will make sure their phones have it as well". One does wonder if that will be for their new phones, or if those consumers who purchased their phone going back 12-18 months can have the upgrade too? And will it be easy to upgrade their phones, or will the carrier have something to say about it too? Or, will the age and specs of the phone preclude them from the possibility of upgrading, as we have seen in some cases already?
The point is, Android is fractured, whether potential customers of any one of dozens of phones and carriers know it or not and care or not. Here you have Android being promoted as a great platform, but it DOES matter, at least in the short term, which phone and carrier you go with as to what features you get.
Can a potential phone customer just look at the Android platform as a unit and say, wow, I can't wait to get all that stuff on my phone? No, he can't. He has to look at individual phones and contract deals to see what he can get. Whether anyone cares what that is called or not, that is "splintering", my friend.
The platform is fractured in a couple of ways:
• A carrier may dictate some features or some customization (and upgrade path/schedule)
• The phone itself may dictate what features are possible, regardless of software
• It may depend on which carrier and/or producer is the flavor of the month with Google.
The market is, therefore, also fractured: in that an Android app developer has to aim his resources carefully at the phones/customers he wants to hit. And customers have to not only find apps in a number of different places, they have to worry about which ones will and will not work on their phones.
All this does lead back to why the "platform" of the iPhone may be stronger and may grow faster than the "platform" that is Android. One would think that as long as more phones, phone producers and carriers are deploying Android, that such a huge potential market would cause great strength and growth for the Android platform. But is that actually proving to be the case in reality? Hopefully it isn't issue going forward.
As you say, splintering may not keep a potential iPhone customer from choosing a particular Android phone over an iPhone (again, that will be on a phone to phone basis), but will some of these issues (or non-issues to you) keep Android from the leaps and bounds it could have, if it wasn't, how shall we put it, so, um, splintered?
As you say, splintering may not keep a potential iPhone customer from choosing a particular Android phone over an iPhone (again, that will be on a phone to phone basis), but will some of these issues (or non-issues to you) keep Android from the leaps and bounds it could have, if it wasn't, how shall we put it, so, um, splintered?
I think there's a good argument to be made that it is analogous to the PC vs. Mac wars of the past decades, with Android playing the role of Windows (except it's free/open which makes it all the more powerful!). When you buy a new Android phone, it will have the latest version of Android. At least from this point on (I honestly don't know whether, for example, the G1 can be upgraded), I know that starting with the Droid, the phones should be upgradeable. Just like someone buying a PC now will upgrade their version of Windows 7 to Windows 8 in a few years. Yeah, there are PC's out there right now running Windows XP, Vista, or even 2000. Of course, that's not splintering, it's just normal product cycle working like it should.
As I said earlier, if Google releases one OS every year or so, I don't see an issue here. That is, unless carriers go out of their way to sell an old OS, but why on earth would they do that?
Getting back to the PC vs. Mac analogy. It seems to me that if there are a bunch of phones with Android, and there is only one iPhone, in the end it is the Android phone "ecosystem" that will win the day. Just like the PC did. I think we're in the beginning phase of that, like maybe 1985 or so. It only took a few more years, before Apple was relegated to a small role in the PC industry. That's what I see going forward.
I write this as one who has Macs in the house, both currently and historically (my first was the LC, which replaced an Apple II). I am a fan of the product of the company, and can boast a mini, Apple TV, Time Capsule and a few other devices besides the laptop and iMac.
However, I don't have an iPhone. I would like one, I used one provided to me by my former employer, but I refuse to do business with AT&T as the provider. Again, this is both from the recent experience and from an historical perspective, as a former customer of the former Cingular. Then as before, I dealt with abysmal customer "service" and shockingly spotty call coverage (yes, the call that drops while 5 bars show in the display). The 3G service in my hometown was fine, but on business travel in LA, NYC and Chicago I had frequent drop-downs to EDGE, or slow throughput when the 3G was lit. I know the Verizon ads smart (and are misleading), but it seems clear to me that AT&T has not been attending to its network and making it sufficiently robust to handle the increased demand from the windfall of customers the iPhone has brought it.
What I have had for years has been T-mobile, and have enjoyed good signal strength and availability (I don't hang out in rural areas) and superior customer service. In addition to providing 3G to 2/3 of the population of this country in an astonishingly fast ramp-up in 2009, the company is already rolling out HSPA 7.2 (which the iPhone GS can handle but which AT&T can't deliver) to Philadelphia and other cities, which will make T-mobile tbe fastest mobile broadband aside from WiMax (and far faster than Verizon and AT&T).
And, yes, I have an Android phone, the MyTouch 3G. Maybe not a powerhouse phone, but then I have zero interest in playing games and I don't need Exchange. I need a phone with apps for personal productivity and which is easy to operate, and the phone answers both needs. When the Nexus One comes out I intend to upgrade (pay cash) because I recognize the leaps Google made in the move to Android 2.1.
Will the Nexus "kill" the Droid? No, because they're supplied by different, incompatible carriers. Lovers of Verizon will still love their Droids.
Will the Nexus "kill" the iPhone? No, because the iPhone (at least until the Nexus comes out) remains the gold standard in mobile phones--great industrial design, thriving development ecosystem. As I said before, I'd use one if I could get 3G on T-mobile, but this isn't happening anytime soon.
I acknowledge that the iPhone has been the object of my desire, but I still enjoy the hell out of my MyTouch and look forward to the Nexus. See, that's how it works: It doesn't need to be some zero-sum game of "my phone rocks, yours sucks" tit-for-tat posts. With a couple hundred million potential cell subscribers in the US alone, there is plenty of room for both phones and a dozen more.
So, please, enough is enough. No more heckling and derision. Enjoy your phone and provider, but allow others that same right. Arguments such as the many contained within this thread lower the IQ of all who stop to read.
The disadvantage for android is that the hardware isn't also controlled by Google while Apple can dictate that all iPhones moving forward have magnetometers.
That's really funny point. While right now it is just 3GS which has the magnetometer, as it stands now, all Androids have it.
1) As usual you either don't read before posting or don't comprehend what you are reading. I clearly stated that v2.0 is available for the G1 and that there is word of it officially getting v2.1.
2) Obviously other vendors don't care about, and likely hate the idea of, increasing your usability of your device through regular updates. It's quite silly for you to have a problem with Apple offering rich updates into the third year of iPhone use, unless you work for a company whose profits are dwindling because you can't compete with Apple, then I'd understand your hatred for the iPhone.
See you are already in the midseason form ;-) The original post said G1 will never get 2.0 update. I said, it's just the poster who thinks so, as this was never announced. And you replied that its not just him. Simple laws of boolean logic means that you too state there will be no 2.0 for G1. I can't read your mind, so if you post this and sincerely think just the opposite, my apologies to you.
Also, I never said regular updates are bad thing, just opposite that multiple versions of Android OS on the market at the same time is not that a big deal. This is quite different statement.
And finally, I never said i hate iPhone, I like it and develop for it, but I don't think it is the holly cow that is "light years ahead of competition" as some posts on this site might suggest.
Comments
i just finished watching the 10 minute video of the Nexus One on Engadget and i must say i am thoroughly impressed. It might not be an iPhone killer by itself but if this is what we are to be expecting from the next year from Android...Apple might need to do a bit more work for wow factor.
The 10 minute video has been removed from YouTube. The short video showcasing 3D graphics is still up. That was the best I?ve seen on a phone. Very responsive UI which we haven?t seen much of from Android.
Can I remind you of this the next time we all say "WOW, Apple's done it again"?
Please do, but it has to pertain exactly to the iPhone mmkay since thats what im talking about.
The 10 minute video has been removed from YouTube. The short video showcasing 3D graphics is still up. That was the best I?ve seen on a phone. Very responsive UI which we haven?t seen much of from Android.
I agree, the Droid was good but this blows that out the water. The theme effects on the home screen i thought were pretty amazing, and the 3D demo was pretty amazing as well but im pretty sure thats due to the Snapdragon processor since there is a demo of Tekken 3 running on the HD2 as well on Engadget.
While im not hopping ship from BB, i am more intrigued by the Nexus One especially if this is where Google is looking to take the platform
Can I remind you of this the next time we all say "WOW, Apple's done it again"?
It?s seems impossible to me to prove that his post could be incorrect. He gave an opinion that he was impressed, stated no absolutes about what will happen, and them stated "Apple might need to do a bit more work for wow factor? which I assume is pretty true for every product in that they are always doing ?a bit more? all the time.
Obj-C 2 (Mac OSX since Leopard) has the ability to use garbage collection. Unfortunately the current iPhone SDK doesn't support it yet.
I don't think that reference counts and autorelease pools are for retard monkeys.
http://memo.tv/memory_management_wit...c_cocoa_iphone
Yes, it would be great to have both options on the iPhone, like on the Mac (2007).
Garbage collection on Mac is completely irrelevant to iPhone developers (at least for now). While manual memory management help SOME applications to have better performance (not all applications really have any problems with performance, mostly its some games), it is less productive for ALL applications to write them using manual MM. There are other areas of Obj-C where it really look ancient - separate .h files where you have to double the class definition, pointer arithmetics... and XCode is really bad IDE.
On the other hand Cocoa is pretty decent framework. Just wonder why every object starts with NS prefix. If they remove this, how many keystrokes of poor iPhone developers would be saved ? Billions ?
Just him? You think that makes for a valid argument despite Android v2.0 launching over two months ago and the only way to get v2.0 is from a hack? There is word that it may get v2.1 but that isn?t hear yet, I don?t think it?s official and it?s a little late to finally give a phone that is only a year old an update that other devices got. HTC?s planning is about as sound as your argument.
Still your rationale that G1 will NEVER get the 2.0 update is far fetched. What can be said is that having all devices updated to latest version of the OS as soon as possible is clearly not preference for neither Google nor T-Mobile. So what ? Most users are quite happy with the 1.5 version of OS they got with the original G1. At least it comes with Copy&Paste functionality right of the box.
My guess is that before we'll see iPhone 4 all the devices would get the 2.0 update, so the Android platform would be quite homogeneous.
Garbage collection on Mac is completely irrelevant to iPhone developers (at least for now). While manual memory management help SOME applications to have better performance (not all applications really have any problems with performance, mostly its some games), it is less productive for ALL applications to write them using manual MM. There are other areas of Obj-C where it really look ancient - separate .h files where you have to double the class definition, pointer arithmetics... and XCode is really bad IDE.
On the other hand Cocoa is pretty decent framework. Just wonder why every object starts with NS prefix. If they remove this, how many keystrokes of poor iPhone developers would be saved ? Billions ?
To your points:
1. separate declaration
Your right this bothers and I think the IDE could automate or synchronize this.
But it's not an problem that really hurts productivity when you get used to it.
2. XCode is a bad IDE
I'm coming from other languages and systems and I totally disagree.
You will have to get used to it, but it supports the MVC concept in a pretty clear and structured way. I'm used to IDE's with a higher UI integration and it's sometimes hard to get used to it, but I think there are some advantages in getting the code and structured like this when it comes to bigger projects and clean design.
Calling it bad is your personal opinion. I think it's just the result of a different philosophy we have to get used to.
Part of that philosophy is optimization. There are tools like shark and instruments that make it possible to get the "best" out of your code.
You might not worry about this, because your projects do not need this performance tweaks, but for me it was one of the main reasons to begin to learn Objective-C. I think techniques like CLang, LLVM, GCD and OpenCL are all about efficiency. To be honest I'm not sure if my old brain can handle this, but it's a clear vision of high "code-efficiency" for the next years.
If you prefer the more integrated way that's fine. But in this case I think Visual Studio and .Net are the benchmark.
3. Pointers
It's obvious that pointers can lead to buffer-overflows, memory-leaks and memory fragmentation. Even experienced developers run into this troubles.
It's the price for some advantages like more efficient and dynamic memory management. E.g. You can sort elements in a List without having to create new copies.
When you call a function without to have to provide the variable and you can point to a known variable in order to avoid to allocate multiple memory copies.
As far as I know Java is internally working with pointers, but "hides" them.
Not sure if it's possible, but if Apple would find a way to define a similar "auto-pointer" (possible loss of efficiency) for those who need or want it. I'd like it.
4. The NS-Thing
Its historical (Next Step) and it's a common technique to add a prefix in order to mark classes as "mine" or "system".
May be it's possible to configure the IDE to hide/cut the NS-Prefix and append it at compile- or translation-time. This might cause a lot of trouble.
I'm a beginner. Until now I have the experience that using cocoa isn't about typing a lot of code. We would have to ask an experienced cocoa dev, but our billion keystrokes seem to be exaggerated.
5. Garbage Collection
Apple has got two years of experience with it from the Mac. Hard to say how big the memory or performance penalty would be, but I'd be pleased to see it in iPhone SDK 4.
Rather than mounting any real competition to the iPhone 3GS, the Nexus One will immediately make HTC's existing Android phones look long in the tooth
Come on AI, this is real competition for the iPhone. What does it have to do to get some acknowledgment that for consumers this is probably the best other smart phone currently available (or soon to be available)?
Please do, but it has to pertain exactly to the iPhone mmkay since thats what im talking about.
I agree, the Droid was good but this blows that out the water. The theme effects on the home screen i thought were pretty amazing, and the 3D demo was pretty amazing as well but im pretty sure thats due to the Snapdragon processor since there is a demo of Tekken 3 running on the HD2 as well on Engadget.
While im not hopping ship from BB, i am more intrigued by the Nexus One especially if this is where Google is looking to take the platform
You do realize all those "themes" and "effects" are due to Android 2.1 and not some special software only available on the Nexus One, right? The Droid will have all those features on Jan 22 when 2.1 becomes available. Let's keep that in mind, shall we?
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
Still your rationale that G1 will NEVER get the 2.0 update is far fetched. What can be said is that having all devices updated to latest version of the OS as soon as possible is clearly not preference for neither Google nor T-Mobile. So what ?
1) As usual you either don't read before posting or don't comprehend what you are reading. I clearly stated that v2.0 is available for the G1 and that there is word of it officially getting v2.1.
2) Obviously other vendors don't care about, and likely hate the idea of, increasing your usability of your device through regular updates. It's quite silly for you to have a problem with Apple offering rich updates into the third year of iPhone use, unless you work for a company whose profits are dwindling because you can't compete with Apple, then I'd understand your hatred for the iPhone.
You do realize all those "themes" and "effects" are due to Android 2.1 and not some special software only available on the Nexus One, right? The Droid will have all those features on Jan 22 when 2.1 becomes available. Let's keep that in mind, shall we?
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
And in the meantime...
Will they stick with MotoBlur for the Droid or has HTC, by incorporating TouchFlo 3D into Android, just given away their IP?
You do realize all those "themes" and "effects" are due to Android 2.1 and not some special software only available on the Nexus One, right? The Droid will have all those features on Jan 22 when 2.1 becomes available. Let's keep that in mind, shall we?
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
So will Motorola license HTC's TouchFlo 3D?
Will they stick with MotoBlur for the Droid or has HTC, by incorporating TouchFlo 3D into Android, just given away their IP?
The Droid doesn't have MotoBlur.
The Droid doesn't have MotoBlur.
I'm beginning to see why some folk react negatively to Prince McClean's articles. They are, as tech posts go, well-written, sometimes exhaustive, pull together lots of disparate info both past and present, but have a slant that always seems to make Apple look a fairly omniscient, all-wise, etc. and this POV brings him to conclusions that go beyond those a less cheerleading observer might reach.
I agree with the basics here but just because you do not like Apple, does not mean that they are always the bad guy. If you read ALL of Prince McLean / Danial Dilger's articles, I think you might come to a different conclusion. Just a thought.
There are lotsa smart people not working in Cupertino and lots of capital being invested in non-Apple efforts. And if there's a giant corporation people have as much positive attachment to as Apple, it's Google.
I'd be guilty of the reverse bias if I compared what happened last time Apple had market share, mind share and unified platform/software advantage, i.e., the time just before the Apple II got crushed by a motley bunch of manufacturers with inconsistent implementations running multiple versions of an buggy, immature operating system from Microsoft. Guilty because Apple's not a tiny-start up with a garage feel and has spent 30 years building the best image and the most buzz in the entire tech world, so concluding they will inevitably be dethroned again by the sheer breadth of the competition would be an unjustifiable stretch.
Got it. You do not like Apple. They are bad. They should do better than anyone cause... er .. ou want them to. I would say that with only 10% US market and only 3% world market, their market cap is 75 % that of Microsoft..... Apple is flat out killing everyone out there.
They made TONS of money last year when the other PC makers were just trying to hang on. I would guess that they are doing SOMETHING right. Just a thought.
Or not. I'm just sayin' I'll still read Prince's articles, but more for the facts he pulls together than for his often over-extrapolated conjectures on same.
Got it, you do not like Apple. Say good things about Apple and it pisses you off.
Great, buy any Dell stock lately? Hate Apple, buy Dell, or MS (it actually is rising lately. weird). The main point that people bring up today that is negative Apple is they do not like it. Not the products, the company. Just how weird is that.
I hate the parking in Redmond....... Does that mean that Microsoft sucks??? (well yes it does suck, but..... you know what I mean. :-) )
Just a thought,
en
anyone know why there is an 11 page limit to apps installed on the iphone. i've only had the iphone for 1 month and i've hit the limit already with 14GB of space left! i can play musical chairs with the syncing between itunes and the iphone but that is inconvenient. it's like what is the point of having 200,000 or 1 million apps in the app store but you can only install 176 apps with around16 apps taken by apple already. 176 divided by 200,000 is 0.00088 or .088%!!!
If you jailbreak, you can start sorting them into folders. Other than that you're stuck playing musical chairs.
Moving on...I love the discussion of "splintering". As if there is a potential iPhone user out there who knows or cares about splintering. More important, is that splintering isn't even an issue going forward. Not with the Droid at least. It will have 2.1. And I believe by the end of 2010, every other manufacturer of an Android phone will make sure their phones have it as well. Nothing to see here.
Well, one would hope that by the end of a given year each manufacturer, "will make sure their phones have it as well". One does wonder if that will be for their new phones, or if those consumers who purchased their phone going back 12-18 months can have the upgrade too? And will it be easy to upgrade their phones, or will the carrier have something to say about it too? Or, will the age and specs of the phone preclude them from the possibility of upgrading, as we have seen in some cases already?
The point is, Android is fractured, whether potential customers of any one of dozens of phones and carriers know it or not and care or not. Here you have Android being promoted as a great platform, but it DOES matter, at least in the short term, which phone and carrier you go with as to what features you get.
Can a potential phone customer just look at the Android platform as a unit and say, wow, I can't wait to get all that stuff on my phone? No, he can't. He has to look at individual phones and contract deals to see what he can get. Whether anyone cares what that is called or not, that is "splintering", my friend.
The platform is fractured in a couple of ways:
• A carrier may dictate some features or some customization (and upgrade path/schedule)
• The phone itself may dictate what features are possible, regardless of software
• It may depend on which carrier and/or producer is the flavor of the month with Google.
The market is, therefore, also fractured: in that an Android app developer has to aim his resources carefully at the phones/customers he wants to hit. And customers have to not only find apps in a number of different places, they have to worry about which ones will and will not work on their phones.
All this does lead back to why the "platform" of the iPhone may be stronger and may grow faster than the "platform" that is Android. One would think that as long as more phones, phone producers and carriers are deploying Android, that such a huge potential market would cause great strength and growth for the Android platform. But is that actually proving to be the case in reality? Hopefully it isn't issue going forward.
As you say, splintering may not keep a potential iPhone customer from choosing a particular Android phone over an iPhone (again, that will be on a phone to phone basis), but will some of these issues (or non-issues to you) keep Android from the leaps and bounds it could have, if it wasn't, how shall we put it, so, um, splintered?
As you say, splintering may not keep a potential iPhone customer from choosing a particular Android phone over an iPhone (again, that will be on a phone to phone basis), but will some of these issues (or non-issues to you) keep Android from the leaps and bounds it could have, if it wasn't, how shall we put it, so, um, splintered?
I think there's a good argument to be made that it is analogous to the PC vs. Mac wars of the past decades, with Android playing the role of Windows (except it's free/open which makes it all the more powerful!). When you buy a new Android phone, it will have the latest version of Android. At least from this point on (I honestly don't know whether, for example, the G1 can be upgraded), I know that starting with the Droid, the phones should be upgradeable. Just like someone buying a PC now will upgrade their version of Windows 7 to Windows 8 in a few years. Yeah, there are PC's out there right now running Windows XP, Vista, or even 2000. Of course, that's not splintering, it's just normal product cycle working like it should.
As I said earlier, if Google releases one OS every year or so, I don't see an issue here. That is, unless carriers go out of their way to sell an old OS, but why on earth would they do that?
Getting back to the PC vs. Mac analogy. It seems to me that if there are a bunch of phones with Android, and there is only one iPhone, in the end it is the Android phone "ecosystem" that will win the day. Just like the PC did. I think we're in the beginning phase of that, like maybe 1985 or so. It only took a few more years, before Apple was relegated to a small role in the PC industry. That's what I see going forward.
However, I don't have an iPhone. I would like one, I used one provided to me by my former employer, but I refuse to do business with AT&T as the provider. Again, this is both from the recent experience and from an historical perspective, as a former customer of the former Cingular. Then as before, I dealt with abysmal customer "service" and shockingly spotty call coverage (yes, the call that drops while 5 bars show in the display). The 3G service in my hometown was fine, but on business travel in LA, NYC and Chicago I had frequent drop-downs to EDGE, or slow throughput when the 3G was lit. I know the Verizon ads smart (and are misleading), but it seems clear to me that AT&T has not been attending to its network and making it sufficiently robust to handle the increased demand from the windfall of customers the iPhone has brought it.
What I have had for years has been T-mobile, and have enjoyed good signal strength and availability (I don't hang out in rural areas) and superior customer service. In addition to providing 3G to 2/3 of the population of this country in an astonishingly fast ramp-up in 2009, the company is already rolling out HSPA 7.2 (which the iPhone GS can handle but which AT&T can't deliver) to Philadelphia and other cities, which will make T-mobile tbe fastest mobile broadband aside from WiMax (and far faster than Verizon and AT&T).
And, yes, I have an Android phone, the MyTouch 3G. Maybe not a powerhouse phone, but then I have zero interest in playing games and I don't need Exchange. I need a phone with apps for personal productivity and which is easy to operate, and the phone answers both needs. When the Nexus One comes out I intend to upgrade (pay cash) because I recognize the leaps Google made in the move to Android 2.1.
Will the Nexus "kill" the Droid? No, because they're supplied by different, incompatible carriers. Lovers of Verizon will still love their Droids.
Will the Nexus "kill" the iPhone? No, because the iPhone (at least until the Nexus comes out) remains the gold standard in mobile phones--great industrial design, thriving development ecosystem. As I said before, I'd use one if I could get 3G on T-mobile, but this isn't happening anytime soon.
I acknowledge that the iPhone has been the object of my desire, but I still enjoy the hell out of my MyTouch and look forward to the Nexus. See, that's how it works: It doesn't need to be some zero-sum game of "my phone rocks, yours sucks" tit-for-tat posts. With a couple hundred million potential cell subscribers in the US alone, there is plenty of room for both phones and a dozen more.
So, please, enough is enough. No more heckling and derision. Enjoy your phone and provider, but allow others that same right. Arguments such as the many contained within this thread lower the IQ of all who stop to read.
The disadvantage for android is that the hardware isn't also controlled by Google while Apple can dictate that all iPhones moving forward have magnetometers.
That's really funny point. While right now it is just 3GS which has the magnetometer, as it stands now, all Androids have it.
1) As usual you either don't read before posting or don't comprehend what you are reading. I clearly stated that v2.0 is available for the G1 and that there is word of it officially getting v2.1.
2) Obviously other vendors don't care about, and likely hate the idea of, increasing your usability of your device through regular updates. It's quite silly for you to have a problem with Apple offering rich updates into the third year of iPhone use, unless you work for a company whose profits are dwindling because you can't compete with Apple, then I'd understand your hatred for the iPhone.
See you are already in the midseason form ;-) The original post said G1 will never get 2.0 update. I said, it's just the poster who thinks so, as this was never announced. And you replied that its not just him. Simple laws of boolean logic means that you too state there will be no 2.0 for G1. I can't read your mind, so if you post this and sincerely think just the opposite, my apologies to you.
Also, I never said regular updates are bad thing, just opposite that multiple versions of Android OS on the market at the same time is not that a big deal. This is quite different statement.
And finally, I never said i hate iPhone, I like it and develop for it, but I don't think it is the holly cow that is "light years ahead of competition" as some posts on this site might suggest.