Why would I want to pay full price? I'm going to pay the same monthly charges for either the locked or unlocked phone. I might as well have the carrier give me a discount. I have a month to test it out.
Some folks buy phones, keep them in pristine condition while using them, and then sell them on eBay for big bucks.
If you have no "trade-in", then buying at full price and paying full boat for service is crazy, as you say. But if you have an existing T-Mo account, and could sell your existing high end phone for several hundred dollars on eBay, then switching phones becomes an affordable hobby.
Personally, I buy subsidized phones and keep them for two years. But with all of the exciting stuff going on in the mobile space, who knows?
Okay folks - like it or hate it, Google will have Apple getting a bit scared.
I am not so sure. There is a lot of growth left in the smartphone market and the fact that there is another player won't necessarily detract from Apple's sales. On the contrary. (When MS brings out a new OS sales figures for Mac OS' tend to spike). What it means is that people have more of a choice there will be something to compare with. My guess is that other brands will suffer but not so much Apple. The iPod effect is still a big selling point. Some people will be happy to jump ship because of carrier dissatisfaction, but from my experience all the carriers over priced and the current ATT and Verizon 'war' is fuelled by a large dose of hysteria. I don't live in the US and maybe things are as terrible as everybody says but I have resided in three countries and the conversations are the same in each country - just change the names.
I seriously doubt Apple is afraid of Google. If anything Google crapped its pants after hearing the news of Apple buying up that mobile ad network. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple even decides to create a search engine of its own on MobileMe to replace Google. Google is deciding to step into Apple's core business, hardware, Apple will have no choice but to step on Google as well. Google is making a lot of money off of Apple's platforms and we will begin to see a shift to more Apple services, backed by Apple owned ads. Also take into consideration the number of applications downloaded and how many of those are ad-supported. I'm sure there's a lot of potential profit slipping between Apple's fingers and they're dying to take control of that. They could make it dead simple for developers to add advertisements in their apps and then simply collect the money as they're clicked. They already have the payment system set up with developers.
Also, Android isn't a threat to the iPhone, it is threat to Windows Mobile.
people don't want lock in. they don't like tyrants. android will just get bigger and no way will apple build a search engine or cloud that most people can stomach. unless apple has some rabbits to pull out of a hat (and not saying they don't) this is the year they start slipping away.
Where are you getting this pop-up thing from? I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Just that most smartphones I've used, double-tapping (or single tapping) just automatically zooms in on the text/picture to a level that quite easy to read.
Only time pinch-zoom has failed me is when I was using my dad's iPhone on a family trip to FL over the last week. I was carrying something in my other hand so I had to resort to the double tap with the thumb of the hand carrying the iPhone. Lest I contort my hand funny, resulting in it dropping near an alligator... Being optimized for two-handed operation is pinch-zoom's only Archille's heel.
The iPhone does double-tap to smart zoom but how do I pinch and zoom a page to my specifications without mutli-touch? Have you used a Mac notebook trackpad? I do not want to go back to having to use the scroll bars in windows. In fact, I want them removed because multi-touch is a superior method for notebooks. How do you propose a tablet with a single-tcouh interface that requires only multiple single taps and menus to get functions that are easily done with multi-touch. Multi-touch is not a novelty and it?s not going away!
That does sound like a very good phone for the money. The only thing that now keeps Apple ahead is the ecosystem that it has with and around the iPhone (incl. iTunes, OSX, AppleTV etc). The 4th gen version had better be really good.
Incidentally, I think that 'multitouch,' while nice, is over-rated. I don't think it will be a continued source of competitive advantage for Apple.
I don't know. Everytime I see a phone with the green and red menu buttons or the trackball, or a chiclet style keyboard it feels old and clunky to me.
Apart from being a novelty, multi-touch offers choices right in front of you and quicker navigation. I see that being the new norm.
Good start for the competition... I did have to remember that a lot of those well touted features are in there because of the iPhone, so in the end it was just.. meh...
(the Multi-touch ability of the iPhone is king, without it, you're games are crippled for starters, and your ability to use the phone in a quick and fluid experience is limited... )
Where are you getting this pop-up thing from? I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Just that most smartphones I've used, double-tapping (or single tapping) just automatically zooms in on the text/picture to a level that quite easy to read.
Only time pinch-zoom has failed me is when I was using my dad's iPhone on a family trip to FL over the last week. I was carrying something in my other hand so I had to resort to the double tap with the thumb of the hand carrying the iPhone. Lest I contort my hand funny, resulting in it dropping near an alligator... Being optimized for two-handed operation is pinch-zoom's only Archille's heel.
Touch a link on the iPhone and hold for about 2 seconds and you get choices.
Touch on the MB and MBP gives you many, many options for 1, 2 or 3 fingers.
The touchscreen device?offers a voice-to-text feature that allows users to dictate aloud for any text field on the device.
This is a killer app. With all the speech interface pioneering that Apple has done over the last three decades, it's astounding that they've let Google beat them to this feature. How many lives will be saved from idiots texting while driving?
I don’t see how it’s that nice for the money. It’s $19 cheaper than the iPhone 3GS under contract yet it has a little over 1/4 the NAND, only 512MB is on-board which makes the total NAND from the SD card slower than the faster NAND Apple added to the 3GS over the 3G.
Why did they decide on only 512k? Do you think it is a matter of price?
On my old PalmOS devices, RAM was scarce, and it was pretty standard to run apps "directly" from the SD card, using third-part software. What actually happened was that things were copied into RAM in order to execute the program. That took a moment, comparable to getting an executable off of a hard drive with a regular computer.
If such a method is quick enough on the Nexus, might that be what they had in mind, which would account for the small amount of memory?
I dunno. Seems to me that memory is very cheap these days. I don't understand Google's decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Sure it has some nice HW features besides that but the 3GS came out in June 2009. I’d wager that the display type and resolution will be upped considerably for this year’s iPhone.
I'd make the same wager. Last time around, in the rumor-mongering period prior to the 3GS being announced, many said that it would have an OLED screen. I wonder if it will happen this year.
I also wonder if the 4GS will have a WVGA resolution, and what might be the optimal resolution for such a tiny screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I don’t think multitouch is over-rated at all, but I haven’t seen anyone but Apple do it right. I couldn’t live without it on my iPhone or my MBP trackpad. it’s a time saver over any single-touch system. I don’t even want to image having to double click an image on a page to get a pop-up menu to choose to scale an image up or down instead of simply using pinch and zoom.
On my iPhone, I find that I rarely use multitouch except on mapping programs, and then, only to gain altitude. Otherwise, "double-tap to center and enlage" seems easiest.
The iPhone does double-tap to smart zoom but how do I pinch and zoom a page to my specifications without mutli-touch? Have you used a Mac notebook trackpad? I do not want to go back to having to use the scroll bars in windows. In fact, I want them removed because multi-touch is a superior method for notebooks. How do you propose a tablet with a single-tcouh interface that requires only multiple single taps and menus to get functions that are easily done with multi-touch. Multi-touch is not a novelty and it?s not going away!
I have no disagreements with you at all. I just personally haven't found a phone that does that pop-up you speak of. Just double or single tap and it zooms in. Double or single tap and it zooms back out. Again, I haven't found one that under- or over-zoomed.
The vast majority of touchscreen smartphones we hear and read about are capable of multi-touch via hardware. They just haven't been given the recognition of the pinch-zoom gesture natively. I'm thinking it's just that they don't want to waste the time and effort and money fighting Apple when it decides to sue. Navigating patent rights is a tricky road...
I personally see this as less of a technical merit of the iPhone. More of just legal red tape no one wants to bother with. Think of it this way. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that a judge throws out Apple's pinch-zoom patent for whatever technical reason. What's to stop all of the iPhone's competitors from sending out an OTA update to enable their phones to use the pinch-zoom gesture within a few days? Nothing.
I seriously doubt Apple is afraid of Google. If anything Google crapped its pants after hearing the news of Apple buying up that mobile ad network. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple even decides to create a search engine of its own on MobileMe to replace Google. Google is deciding to step into Apple's core business, hardware, Apple will have no choice but to step on Google as well. Google is making a lot of money off of Apple's platforms and we will begin to see a shift to more Apple services, backed by Apple owned ads. Also take into consideration the number of applications downloaded and how many of those are ad-supported. I'm sure there's a lot of potential profit slipping between Apple's fingers and they're dying to take control of that. They could make it dead simple for developers to add advertisements in their apps and then simply collect the money as they're clicked. They already have the payment system set up with developers.
Also, Android isn't a threat to the iPhone, it is threat to Windows Mobile.
..Not until Exchange support gets a LOT better on the Android platform. We're a Microsoft outfit and we've had several of our users ask about the Droid phones, and we keep telling them no, sorry, won't work with our Exchange email. Windows Mobile and iPhone have ActiveSync support. Palm had that poor VersaMail client and we don't want to go through that again with bolt-ons for Android.
You can't know about a device's success until it's put to work in the field. Features are one thing, but overall UI design and the design of the system and how well it works on the system it's on, all go together to make or break the product--in each customer's subjective reality.
They'll either rave about it, or they'll rant about it, or they just won't say anything. But unless they rave, it'll eventually flop, especially since Apple now has this and other touted devices to "compete" with, and at least know better both what NOT to do and to learn what people actually want in addition to what they already have with the iPhone.
Nothing to be "scared" (Oooooo!) about. Just makes the game a little more interesting.
Why did they decide on only 512k? Do you think it is a matter of price?
I don?t know. I won?t have the same problem as the G1 did but it seems shortsighted to me.
Quote:
On my old PalmOS devices, RAM was scarce, and it was pretty standard to run apps "directly" from the SD card, using third-part software. What actually happened was that things were copied into RAM in order to execute the program. That took a moment, comparable to getting an executable off of a hard drive with a regular computer.
Can you store apps on the SD cards or is it still just the support files? I hope you?re not confusing the 512MB RAM with the 512MB on-board NAND.
Quote:
I'd make the same wager. Last time around, in the rumor-mongering period prior to the 3GS being announced, many said that it would have an OLED screen. I wonder if it will happen this year.
I also wonder if the 4GS will have a WVGA resolution, and what might be the optimal resolution for such a tiny screen.
I thought they?d up it last time around. It?ll be 3 years with the same LCD tech and resolution. I don?t see how they could possibly hold out for another year so i think AMLOED and higher resolution is a shoe in.
Quote:
On my iPhone, I find that I rarely use multitouch except on mapping programs, and then, only to gain altitude. Otherwise, "double-tap to center and enlage" seems easiest.
I forgot about the maps app. I had to test it to see if pinch and zoom is something I do often in Maps, and I do. I take it for granted. It?s too useful and elegant not to.
I personally see this as less of a technical merit of the iPhone. More of just legal red tape no one wants to bother with. Think of it this way. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that a judge throws out Apple's pinch-zoom patent for whatever technical reason. What's to stop all of the iPhone's competitors from sending out an OTA update to enable their phones to use the pinch-zoom gesture within a few days? Nothing.
Perhaps, but Synaptic added a multi-touch trackpad driver option a couple years ago but MS didn?t seem to care and the vendors really suck at creating software. Teh HP Envys now have a huge trackpad that is also a button that allows for pinch, zoom, etc., like the MB and MBPs, but it?s so poor in execution that reviewers are suggesting an external mouse. So, I think it?s ability over legality that is the problem.
Comments
Why would I want to pay full price? I'm going to pay the same monthly charges for either the locked or unlocked phone. I might as well have the carrier give me a discount. I have a month to test it out.
Some folks buy phones, keep them in pristine condition while using them, and then sell them on eBay for big bucks.
If you have no "trade-in", then buying at full price and paying full boat for service is crazy, as you say. But if you have an existing T-Mo account, and could sell your existing high end phone for several hundred dollars on eBay, then switching phones becomes an affordable hobby.
Personally, I buy subsidized phones and keep them for two years. But with all of the exciting stuff going on in the mobile space, who knows?
Okay folks - like it or hate it, Google will have Apple getting a bit scared.
I am not so sure. There is a lot of growth left in the smartphone market and the fact that there is another player won't necessarily detract from Apple's sales. On the contrary. (When MS brings out a new OS sales figures for Mac OS' tend to spike). What it means is that people have more of a choice there will be something to compare with. My guess is that other brands will suffer but not so much Apple. The iPod effect is still a big selling point. Some people will be happy to jump ship because of carrier dissatisfaction, but from my experience all the carriers over priced and the current ATT and Verizon 'war' is fuelled by a large dose of hysteria. I don't live in the US and maybe things are as terrible as everybody says but I have resided in three countries and the conversations are the same in each country - just change the names.
I seriously doubt Apple is afraid of Google. If anything Google crapped its pants after hearing the news of Apple buying up that mobile ad network. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple even decides to create a search engine of its own on MobileMe to replace Google. Google is deciding to step into Apple's core business, hardware, Apple will have no choice but to step on Google as well. Google is making a lot of money off of Apple's platforms and we will begin to see a shift to more Apple services, backed by Apple owned ads. Also take into consideration the number of applications downloaded and how many of those are ad-supported. I'm sure there's a lot of potential profit slipping between Apple's fingers and they're dying to take control of that. They could make it dead simple for developers to add advertisements in their apps and then simply collect the money as they're clicked. They already have the payment system set up with developers.
Also, Android isn't a threat to the iPhone, it is threat to Windows Mobile.
people don't want lock in. they don't like tyrants. android will just get bigger and no way will apple build a search engine or cloud that most people can stomach. unless apple has some rabbits to pull out of a hat (and not saying they don't) this is the year they start slipping away.
Where are you getting this pop-up thing from? I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Just that most smartphones I've used, double-tapping (or single tapping) just automatically zooms in on the text/picture to a level that quite easy to read.
Only time pinch-zoom has failed me is when I was using my dad's iPhone on a family trip to FL over the last week. I was carrying something in my other hand so I had to resort to the double tap with the thumb of the hand carrying the iPhone. Lest I contort my hand funny, resulting in it dropping near an alligator...
The iPhone does double-tap to smart zoom but how do I pinch and zoom a page to my specifications without mutli-touch? Have you used a Mac notebook trackpad? I do not want to go back to having to use the scroll bars in windows. In fact, I want them removed because multi-touch is a superior method for notebooks. How do you propose a tablet with a single-tcouh interface that requires only multiple single taps and menus to get functions that are easily done with multi-touch. Multi-touch is not a novelty and it?s not going away!
That does sound like a very good phone for the money. The only thing that now keeps Apple ahead is the ecosystem that it has with and around the iPhone (incl. iTunes, OSX, AppleTV etc). The 4th gen version had better be really good.
Incidentally, I think that 'multitouch,' while nice, is over-rated. I don't think it will be a continued source of competitive advantage for Apple.
I don't know. Everytime I see a phone with the green and red menu buttons or the trackball, or a chiclet style keyboard it feels old and clunky to me.
Apart from being a novelty, multi-touch offers choices right in front of you and quicker navigation. I see that being the new norm.
(the Multi-touch ability of the iPhone is king, without it, you're games are crippled for starters, and your ability to use the phone in a quick and fluid experience is limited... )
What's with the messy UI? Angled icons and clutter, don't get that.
I thought the UI was messy and cluttered too. Rather odd, for a company that is fairly minimalist and subdued in its approach to UI design.
Where are you getting this pop-up thing from? I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Just that most smartphones I've used, double-tapping (or single tapping) just automatically zooms in on the text/picture to a level that quite easy to read.
Only time pinch-zoom has failed me is when I was using my dad's iPhone on a family trip to FL over the last week. I was carrying something in my other hand so I had to resort to the double tap with the thumb of the hand carrying the iPhone. Lest I contort my hand funny, resulting in it dropping near an alligator...
Touch a link on the iPhone and hold for about 2 seconds and you get choices.
Touch on the MB and MBP gives you many, many options for 1, 2 or 3 fingers.
The touchscreen device?offers a voice-to-text feature that allows users to dictate aloud for any text field on the device.
This is a killer app. With all the speech interface pioneering that Apple has done over the last three decades, it's astounding that they've let Google beat them to this feature. How many lives will be saved from idiots texting while driving?
I don’t see how it’s that nice for the money. It’s $19 cheaper than the iPhone 3GS under contract yet it has a little over 1/4 the NAND, only 512MB is on-board which makes the total NAND from the SD card slower than the faster NAND Apple added to the 3GS over the 3G.
Why did they decide on only 512k? Do you think it is a matter of price?
On my old PalmOS devices, RAM was scarce, and it was pretty standard to run apps "directly" from the SD card, using third-part software. What actually happened was that things were copied into RAM in order to execute the program. That took a moment, comparable to getting an executable off of a hard drive with a regular computer.
If such a method is quick enough on the Nexus, might that be what they had in mind, which would account for the small amount of memory?
I dunno. Seems to me that memory is very cheap these days. I don't understand Google's decision.
Sure it has some nice HW features besides that but the 3GS came out in June 2009. I’d wager that the display type and resolution will be upped considerably for this year’s iPhone.
I'd make the same wager. Last time around, in the rumor-mongering period prior to the 3GS being announced, many said that it would have an OLED screen. I wonder if it will happen this year.
I also wonder if the 4GS will have a WVGA resolution, and what might be the optimal resolution for such a tiny screen.
I don’t think multitouch is over-rated at all, but I haven’t seen anyone but Apple do it right. I couldn’t live without it on my iPhone or my MBP trackpad. it’s a time saver over any single-touch system. I don’t even want to image having to double click an image on a page to get a pop-up menu to choose to scale an image up or down instead of simply using pinch and zoom.
On my iPhone, I find that I rarely use multitouch except on mapping programs, and then, only to gain altitude. Otherwise, "double-tap to center and enlage" seems easiest.
The N1 doesn't have to kill the iPhone to succeed...
The iPhone has critical mass. Nothing and nobody will kill it. It will have plenty of buyers until it dies a natural death.
The iPhone does double-tap to smart zoom but how do I pinch and zoom a page to my specifications without mutli-touch? Have you used a Mac notebook trackpad? I do not want to go back to having to use the scroll bars in windows. In fact, I want them removed because multi-touch is a superior method for notebooks. How do you propose a tablet with a single-tcouh interface that requires only multiple single taps and menus to get functions that are easily done with multi-touch. Multi-touch is not a novelty and it?s not going away!
I have no disagreements with you at all. I just personally haven't found a phone that does that pop-up you speak of. Just double or single tap and it zooms in. Double or single tap and it zooms back out. Again, I haven't found one that under- or over-zoomed.
The vast majority of touchscreen smartphones we hear and read about are capable of multi-touch via hardware. They just haven't been given the recognition of the pinch-zoom gesture natively. I'm thinking it's just that they don't want to waste the time and effort and money fighting Apple when it decides to sue. Navigating patent rights is a tricky road...
I personally see this as less of a technical merit of the iPhone. More of just legal red tape no one wants to bother with. Think of it this way. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that a judge throws out Apple's pinch-zoom patent for whatever technical reason. What's to stop all of the iPhone's competitors from sending out an OTA update to enable their phones to use the pinch-zoom gesture within a few days? Nothing.
I seriously doubt Apple is afraid of Google. If anything Google crapped its pants after hearing the news of Apple buying up that mobile ad network. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple even decides to create a search engine of its own on MobileMe to replace Google. Google is deciding to step into Apple's core business, hardware, Apple will have no choice but to step on Google as well. Google is making a lot of money off of Apple's platforms and we will begin to see a shift to more Apple services, backed by Apple owned ads. Also take into consideration the number of applications downloaded and how many of those are ad-supported. I'm sure there's a lot of potential profit slipping between Apple's fingers and they're dying to take control of that. They could make it dead simple for developers to add advertisements in their apps and then simply collect the money as they're clicked. They already have the payment system set up with developers.
Also, Android isn't a threat to the iPhone, it is threat to Windows Mobile.
..Not until Exchange support gets a LOT better on the Android platform. We're a Microsoft outfit and we've had several of our users ask about the Droid phones, and we keep telling them no, sorry, won't work with our Exchange email. Windows Mobile and iPhone have ActiveSync support. Palm had that poor VersaMail client and we don't want to go through that again with bolt-ons for Android.
If Verizon gets the Nexus One and the next gen iPhone, AT&T is f**ked!
I find it notable that ATT doesn't carry any Android devices. But I've not seen a single news story about it.
They'll either rave about it, or they'll rant about it, or they just won't say anything. But unless they rave, it'll eventually flop, especially since Apple now has this and other touted devices to "compete" with, and at least know better both what NOT to do and to learn what people actually want in addition to what they already have with the iPhone.
Nothing to be "scared" (Oooooo!) about. Just makes the game a little more interesting.
Why did they decide on only 512k? Do you think it is a matter of price?
I don?t know. I won?t have the same problem as the G1 did but it seems shortsighted to me.
On my old PalmOS devices, RAM was scarce, and it was pretty standard to run apps "directly" from the SD card, using third-part software. What actually happened was that things were copied into RAM in order to execute the program. That took a moment, comparable to getting an executable off of a hard drive with a regular computer.
Can you store apps on the SD cards or is it still just the support files? I hope you?re not confusing the 512MB RAM with the 512MB on-board NAND.
I'd make the same wager. Last time around, in the rumor-mongering period prior to the 3GS being announced, many said that it would have an OLED screen. I wonder if it will happen this year.
I also wonder if the 4GS will have a WVGA resolution, and what might be the optimal resolution for such a tiny screen.
I thought they?d up it last time around. It?ll be 3 years with the same LCD tech and resolution. I don?t see how they could possibly hold out for another year so i think AMLOED and higher resolution is a shoe in.
On my iPhone, I find that I rarely use multitouch except on mapping programs, and then, only to gain altitude. Otherwise, "double-tap to center and enlage" seems easiest.
I forgot about the maps app. I had to test it to see if pinch and zoom is something I do often in Maps, and I do. I take it for granted. It?s too useful and elegant not to.
If Verizon gets the Nexus One and the next gen iPhone, AT&T is f**ked!
next gen iPhone and Nexus One on Verizon ... the only one getting f**ked is Verizon. LOL
two bandwidth hogs on the same network! niiice -- then the can feel the ATT pain.
I'll be a happy camper on ATT, can't wait for the current bandwidth to be cut in half. more for me! thank you, come again!
I personally see this as less of a technical merit of the iPhone. More of just legal red tape no one wants to bother with. Think of it this way. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that a judge throws out Apple's pinch-zoom patent for whatever technical reason. What's to stop all of the iPhone's competitors from sending out an OTA update to enable their phones to use the pinch-zoom gesture within a few days? Nothing.
Perhaps, but Synaptic added a multi-touch trackpad driver option a couple years ago but MS didn?t seem to care and the vendors really suck at creating software. Teh HP Envys now have a huge trackpad that is also a button that allows for pinch, zoom, etc., like the MB and MBPs, but it?s so poor in execution that reviewers are suggesting an external mouse. So, I think it?s ability over legality that is the problem.