Please tell me at least this is not just win 7 in a small form factor meaning windows start menu and so on.
A new touch device should have icons similar to msicosofts control panel where you touch the icin and it does something. Not just a slimmed down windows machine. And where is the courier??
Please tell me at least this is not just win 7 in a small form factor meaning windows start menu and so on.
A new touch device should have icons similar to msicosofts control panel where you touch the icin and it does something. Not just a slimmed down windows machine. And where is the courier??
Yes it is full Windows 7 and thank god for that. The MS slate is a netbook replacement, not an iPhone with a big screen.
Yes it is full Windows 7 and thank god for that. The MS slate is a netbook replacement, not an iPhone with a big screen.
But how do you press all the tiny icons and so on if it is just running Windows 7 without any sort of "Slate GUI" or something on top of it? Do you use a stylus? Is there a "Slate GUI" for Windows 7?
The other alternative if that it never leaves the house and is just a convenient way to read and web browse without having a netbook on my lap which sounds awesome... but not for $500+.
I'm predicting this angle. Convenient way to do stuff without needing a netbook or laptop, $699 and $799 price points. For home use, and for those on-the-road who want something netbook-like but don't want a netbook (for many reasons) nor want to carry around their heavier, more expensive laptop.
It will be hella sexy for the ladies too, instead of the clunky netbook you have a sleek slate you can slide in your handbag. Not to say that it is effeminate, for the guys it's just cool tech that you could carry around instead of your netbook.
Home use, and on the road, and with the App Store it will have special uses in some verticals eg. Medical industry.
Apple will price it for 30% gross profit margins or so. Or maybe there will be 3G models sold through telco partnerships to make it "affordable".
Sure the thing I was holding was not much more than a electronic photoframe, but most people don't know that and that's what counts! I've bought enough time to actually develope this stuff for real! Once we see what Jobs does the bar is set!
But how do you press all the tiny icons and so on if it is just running Windows 7 without any sort of "Slate GUI" or something on top of it? Do you use a stylus? Is there a "Slate GUI" for Windows 7?
Right. How do you use Office? Are there a lot of third party apps that have been tailored for slate duty? Just saying "Oh good, Windows 7, it's a net book replacement" doesn't really mean much.
But how do you press all the tiny icons and so on if it is just running Windows 7 without any sort of "Slate GUI" or something on top of it? Do you use a stylus? Is there a "Slate GUI" for Windows 7?
The same way you press the tiny icons on the iPhone\\iTouch At 1024*576 an 11" slate would have about 5% less pixels\\inch than the 27" iMac. In other words... the screen isn't that small for the resolution.
That said I'd be surprised if they didn't eventually come up with some kind of slate UI. The most likely candidate would be Windows Presentation Foundation apps hosted in a Media Centre - ish launcher. That most certainly wasn't part of the demo though.
The concept of Microsoft\\Apple getting rid of the back end Windows\\OS X in these slate devices just because people expect it to look like an iPhone seems to me like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Right. How do you use Office? Are there a lot of third party apps that have been tailored for slate duty? Just saying "Oh good, Windows 7, it's a net book replacement" doesn't really mean much.
Unless you have really massive fingers (I'm talking "mash the keyboard to continue" big) Windows 7 & Office are both functional on a touch screen. Granted you aren't going to want to write a novel using a 5" on screen keyboard, but for basic document editing it would be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
I'm predicting this angle. Convenient way to do stuff without needing a netbook or laptop, $699 and $799 price points. For home use, and for those on-the-road who want something netbook-like but don't want a netbook (for many reasons) nor want to carry around their heavier, more expensive laptop.
It will be hella sexy for the ladies too, instead of the clunky netbook you have a sleek slate you can slide in your handbag. Not to say that it is effeminate, for the guys it's just cool tech that you could carry around instead of your netbook.
Home use, and on the road, and with the App Store it will have special uses in some verticals eg. Medical industry.
Apple will price it for 30% gross profit margins or so. Or maybe there will be 3G models sold through telco partnerships to make it "affordable".
IMO it's risky to go for the "iPhone with big screen". In a way Apple have made the iPhone too good. Basic email, contacts, appointments, web browsing on-the-go... people have iPhone's to do that.
If 6 months go by and Microsoft release a Windows 7 front end UI for slate devices meaning they can have all the pretty stuff as well as replace your netbook... "iPhone with big screen" for $799 just doesn't seem like the best deal.
Personally I'm hoping for OS X with a pretty new UI. If not then I wait to see what Microsoft comes up with.
The same way you press the tiny icons on the iPhone\\iTouch At 1024*576 an 11" slate would have about 5% less pixels\\inch than the 27" iMac. In other words... the screen isn't that small for the resolution.
That said I'd be surprised if they didn't eventually come up with some kind of slate UI. The most likely candidate would be Windows Presentation Foundation apps hosted in a Media Centre - ish launcher. That most certainly wasn't part of the demo though.
It's more than just slapping some touch stuff on there-- it's how all the parts interact, thinking through the entire idea of a 10" device that you hold in your hand-- where your hands are likely to be, what you'll be using it for, etc. The "tiny icons" of the iPhone are all designed with that device in mind-- not just scaled down bits of desktop UI, but a very specific vocabulary of shapes, positioning and interaction.
Quote:
The concept of Microsoft\\Apple getting rid of the back end Windows\\OS X in these slate devices just because people expect it to look like an iPhone seems to me like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Apple hasn't and won't get rid of the OS X back end though-- it's there on the iPhone, it'll be there on the slate. What won't be there is any aspect of a desktop environment that doesn't make sense, and that's likely to be the point of differentiation between what Apple and MS's approach. MS will be content to make some of the Windows UI elements touchable instead of clickable, maybe put a flashy animation or home screen on it, and call it a day. Apple's going to make an integrated device, every aspect of which will be tailored to that particular form factor.
Quote:
IMO it's risky to go for the "iPhone with big screen". In a way Apple have made the iPhone too good. Basic email, contacts, appointments, web browsing on-the-go... people have iPhone's to do that.
There's no chance of that happening. People may call it that, because the UI may look more like the iPhone than desktop OS X, but the software will be designed to work with the size and power of that particular device.
Quote:
If 6 months go by and Microsoft release a Windows 7 front end UI for slate devices meaning they can have all the pretty stuff as well as replace your netbook... "iPhone with big screen" for $799 just doesn't seem like the best deal.
Personally I'm hoping for OS X with a pretty new UI. If not then I wait to see what Microsoft comes up with.
Again, it goes far deeper than "pretty stuff." MS has been doing tablets for years. They seem to have figured out that limiting them to styli isn't going to cut it, I suspect that means little more than making targets a little bigger. At heart, it'll still be a desktop OS with touching replacing clicking. MS is too invested in the brand of Windows to do much more. Apple doesn't have that problem-- they're not in the OS X business, they're in the whole widget business.
If you think what a slate needs is a desktop OS with "pretty", you may have not thought very hard about how you might actually use such a device.
At the Microsoft keynote, an HP-branded slate product was showcased which looked a great deal like what many think the Apple tablet will look like.
However, unlike the Apple tablet, which is rumored to be running the limited iPhone OS, HP's (NYSE: HPQ) tablet runs Windows 7. Granted, both devices are more imagination than reality at the moment, but HP's product could actually launch before Apple's."
At the Microsoft keynote, an HP-branded slate product was showcased which looked a great deal like what many think the Apple tablet will look like.
However, unlike the Apple tablet, which is rumored to be running the limited iPhone OS, HP's (NYSE: HPQ) tablet runs Windows 7. Granted, both devices are more imagination than reality at the moment, but HP's product could actually launch before Apple's."
How can a prototype or set of prototypes, that is shipping "sometime in the year" blindside something that nobody even knows if it is coming out or not?
It's like the I'm a Mac vs PC ads, except with ghosts.
The problem with the slate device Ballmer introduced last week is that it runs Windows. That's why people aren't impressed.
I think maybe Windows is okay, but AFAIK there was no significantly-demonstrated "Touch UI/ Slate UI" layer running on top of that, right? It was just like a netbook with the screen only.
Or it could just be the word for a tablet that has no keyboard. Slate computers have been around for years. They just always used a stylus until now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77
I have to say, this is sad.
I guess all those courier fans on the other thread have to fess up.
Microsoft blew it.
Bye-bye, so-called "new, innovative Microsoft"
More of the same.
You would think with MS deep pockets that they could produce the courier, making it their own hardwar and not oem. Time for MS to stop thinking like engineers and IBM and release something like the courier that would probably do well in education and business and if they had 100% control meaning no OEM, they could build better products. They need more creativity or allow those that have the idea, to put them out. I mean songsmith. Case closed. They have too much money to be releasing things like that.
If you think what a slate needs is a desktop OS with "pretty", you may have not thought very hard about how you might actually use such a device.
I'm just caught up in all the hype. Unless Apple decide to remove the app store restrictions what you describe is a niche device to consume iTunes content (like Apple TV), not something that would appeal to the mass market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp
You would think with MS deep pockets that they could produce the courier, making it their own hardwar and not oem. Time for MS to stop thinking like engineers and IBM and release something like the courier that would probably do well in education and business and if they had 100% control meaning no OEM, they could build better products. They need more creativity or allow those that have the idea, to put them out. I mean songsmith. Case closed. They have too much money to be releasing things like that.
It would probably be running Windows 7 which would just get them another anti-trust case. It sounds pretty stupid but we are talking about the same regulatory bodies that don't think a web browser or a media player are part of an OS experience.
I'm just caught up in all the hype. Unless Apple decide to remove the app store restrictions what you describe is a niche device to consume iTunes content (like Apple TV), not something that would appeal to the mass market.
Maybe you're right, but to me your comment reminds me of Steve Ballmer's of the iPhone.
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance."
Given Apple's recent track record, I wouldn't bet against Apple.
Maybe you're right, but to me your comment reminds me of Steve Ballmer's of the iPhone. "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." Given Apple's recent track record, I wouldn't bet against Apple.
I don't see the similarity because they are two totally different markets. What is the iPhone market share anyway? I thought it was something like 2-3%. Have the 2009 numbers been released yet?
Apple's track record is to produce an absolutely perfect product for a niche market. The iPod is actually something of an anomaly. The iPhone is still too early to call I think unless the numbers have changed dramatically in 2009.
I don't see the similarity because they are two totally different markets. What is the iPhone market share anyway? I thought it was something like 2-3%. Have the 2009 numbers been released yet?
Apple's track record is to produce an absolutely perfect product for a niche market.
For the last quarter, iPhone had a 17% share of the smartphone market. That's the market that counts. That's the market that Balmer was talking about.
Total smartphones this year... about 160 million. That's no longer a niche.
For the last quarter, iPhone had a 17% share of the smartphone market. That's the market that counts. That's the market that Balmer was talking about.
Total smartphones this year... about 160 million. That's no longer a niche.
So 17% of the smart phone market which is 14% of the mobile market is around 2-3% of the total market. That's a narrow demographic niche product.
Like I said though, I see the iPhone as a totally different product to the slate being described by most people here. The iPhone certainly has the potential to be main stream given a cheaper price tag.
When Balmer made that comment he wasn't talking about the smartphone market. He was talking about the entire mobile phone market. He even specifically mentions the total mobile sales.
So what he said is (so far) totally true. The iPhone doesn't have any kind of "significant" market share. I quote "significant" because although he was talking about sales numbers one could argue that a share of the profit is more important to a business than a share of the sales.
Of course, I've got no idea what his point was - Balmer on his best day is totally insane. As Carniphage mentioned above Apple are making a massive profit off that small market segment whilst Microsoft is making nothing (I'd suggest Windows Mobile may even be losing money).
So for him to suggest he'd rather have a large market share rather than a small one like Apple, whilst he has virtually none, doesn't make any sense at all.
In any case I still see the iPhone\\iPod market as being different to the slate market. One is main stream (or potentially so) and the other will always have a limited demographic.
It's not like I see that as being a bad thing. Targeting a product to a specific audience means it can be designed to be more ideally suited to their needs. A Ferrari is a narrow demographic niche product.
Comments
A new touch device should have icons similar to msicosofts control panel where you touch the icin and it does something. Not just a slimmed down windows machine. And where is the courier??
Please tell me at least this is not just win 7 in a small form factor meaning windows start menu and so on.
A new touch device should have icons similar to msicosofts control panel where you touch the icin and it does something. Not just a slimmed down windows machine. And where is the courier??
Yes it is full Windows 7 and thank god for that. The MS slate is a netbook replacement, not an iPhone with a big screen.
Yes it is full Windows 7 and thank god for that. The MS slate is a netbook replacement, not an iPhone with a big screen.
But how do you press all the tiny icons and so on if it is just running Windows 7 without any sort of "Slate GUI" or something on top of it? Do you use a stylus? Is there a "Slate GUI" for Windows 7?
The other alternative if that it never leaves the house and is just a convenient way to read and web browse without having a netbook on my lap which sounds awesome... but not for $500+.
I'm predicting this angle. Convenient way to do stuff without needing a netbook or laptop, $699 and $799 price points. For home use, and for those on-the-road who want something netbook-like but don't want a netbook (for many reasons) nor want to carry around their heavier, more expensive laptop.
It will be hella sexy for the ladies too, instead of the clunky netbook you have a sleek slate you can slide in your handbag. Not to say that it is effeminate, for the guys it's just cool tech that you could carry around instead of your netbook.
Home use, and on the road, and with the App Store it will have special uses in some verticals eg. Medical industry.
Apple will price it for 30% gross profit margins or so. Or maybe there will be 3G models sold through telco partnerships to make it "affordable".
You people are soooo gullible!
But how do you press all the tiny icons and so on if it is just running Windows 7 without any sort of "Slate GUI" or something on top of it? Do you use a stylus? Is there a "Slate GUI" for Windows 7?
Right. How do you use Office? Are there a lot of third party apps that have been tailored for slate duty? Just saying "Oh good, Windows 7, it's a net book replacement" doesn't really mean much.
But how do you press all the tiny icons and so on if it is just running Windows 7 without any sort of "Slate GUI" or something on top of it? Do you use a stylus? Is there a "Slate GUI" for Windows 7?
The same way you press the tiny icons on the iPhone\\iTouch
That said I'd be surprised if they didn't eventually come up with some kind of slate UI. The most likely candidate would be Windows Presentation Foundation apps hosted in a Media Centre - ish launcher. That most certainly wasn't part of the demo though.
The concept of Microsoft\\Apple getting rid of the back end Windows\\OS X in these slate devices just because people expect it to look like an iPhone seems to me like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Right. How do you use Office? Are there a lot of third party apps that have been tailored for slate duty? Just saying "Oh good, Windows 7, it's a net book replacement" doesn't really mean much.
Unless you have really massive fingers (I'm talking "mash the keyboard to continue" big) Windows 7 & Office are both functional on a touch screen. Granted you aren't going to want to write a novel using a 5" on screen keyboard, but for basic document editing it would be fine.
I'm predicting this angle. Convenient way to do stuff without needing a netbook or laptop, $699 and $799 price points. For home use, and for those on-the-road who want something netbook-like but don't want a netbook (for many reasons) nor want to carry around their heavier, more expensive laptop.
It will be hella sexy for the ladies too, instead of the clunky netbook you have a sleek slate you can slide in your handbag. Not to say that it is effeminate, for the guys it's just cool tech that you could carry around instead of your netbook.
Home use, and on the road, and with the App Store it will have special uses in some verticals eg. Medical industry.
Apple will price it for 30% gross profit margins or so. Or maybe there will be 3G models sold through telco partnerships to make it "affordable".
IMO it's risky to go for the "iPhone with big screen". In a way Apple have made the iPhone too good. Basic email, contacts, appointments, web browsing on-the-go... people have iPhone's to do that.
If 6 months go by and Microsoft release a Windows 7 front end UI for slate devices meaning they can have all the pretty stuff as well as replace your netbook... "iPhone with big screen" for $799 just doesn't seem like the best deal.
Personally I'm hoping for OS X with a pretty new UI. If not then I wait to see what Microsoft comes up with.
The same way you press the tiny icons on the iPhone\\iTouch
That said I'd be surprised if they didn't eventually come up with some kind of slate UI. The most likely candidate would be Windows Presentation Foundation apps hosted in a Media Centre - ish launcher. That most certainly wasn't part of the demo though.
It's more than just slapping some touch stuff on there-- it's how all the parts interact, thinking through the entire idea of a 10" device that you hold in your hand-- where your hands are likely to be, what you'll be using it for, etc. The "tiny icons" of the iPhone are all designed with that device in mind-- not just scaled down bits of desktop UI, but a very specific vocabulary of shapes, positioning and interaction.
The concept of Microsoft\\Apple getting rid of the back end Windows\\OS X in these slate devices just because people expect it to look like an iPhone seems to me like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Apple hasn't and won't get rid of the OS X back end though-- it's there on the iPhone, it'll be there on the slate. What won't be there is any aspect of a desktop environment that doesn't make sense, and that's likely to be the point of differentiation between what Apple and MS's approach. MS will be content to make some of the Windows UI elements touchable instead of clickable, maybe put a flashy animation or home screen on it, and call it a day. Apple's going to make an integrated device, every aspect of which will be tailored to that particular form factor.
IMO it's risky to go for the "iPhone with big screen". In a way Apple have made the iPhone too good. Basic email, contacts, appointments, web browsing on-the-go... people have iPhone's to do that.
There's no chance of that happening. People may call it that, because the UI may look more like the iPhone than desktop OS X, but the software will be designed to work with the size and power of that particular device.
If 6 months go by and Microsoft release a Windows 7 front end UI for slate devices meaning they can have all the pretty stuff as well as replace your netbook... "iPhone with big screen" for $799 just doesn't seem like the best deal.
Personally I'm hoping for OS X with a pretty new UI. If not then I wait to see what Microsoft comes up with.
Again, it goes far deeper than "pretty stuff." MS has been doing tablets for years. They seem to have figured out that limiting them to styli isn't going to cut it, I suspect that means little more than making targets a little bigger. At heart, it'll still be a desktop OS with touching replacing clicking. MS is too invested in the brand of Windows to do much more. Apple doesn't have that problem-- they're not in the OS X business, they're in the whole widget business.
If you think what a slate needs is a desktop OS with "pretty", you may have not thought very hard about how you might actually use such a device.
"HP Blindsides Apple
At the Microsoft keynote, an HP-branded slate product was showcased which looked a great deal like what many think the Apple tablet will look like.
However, unlike the Apple tablet, which is rumored to be running the limited iPhone OS, HP's (NYSE: HPQ) tablet runs Windows 7. Granted, both devices are more imagination than reality at the moment, but HP's product could actually launch before Apple's."
Rob Enderle has Spoken
"HP Blindsides Apple
At the Microsoft keynote, an HP-branded slate product was showcased which looked a great deal like what many think the Apple tablet will look like.
However, unlike the Apple tablet, which is rumored to be running the limited iPhone OS, HP's (NYSE: HPQ) tablet runs Windows 7. Granted, both devices are more imagination than reality at the moment, but HP's product could actually launch before Apple's."
How can a prototype or set of prototypes, that is shipping "sometime in the year" blindside something that nobody even knows if it is coming out or not?
It's like the I'm a Mac vs PC ads, except with ghosts.
The problem with the slate device Ballmer introduced last week is that it runs Windows. That's why people aren't impressed.
I think maybe Windows is okay, but AFAIK there was no significantly-demonstrated "Touch UI/ Slate UI" layer running on top of that, right? It was just like a netbook with the screen only.
It's like the I'm a Mac vs PC ads, except with ghosts.
Microsoft's "Courier" also has it's fans. And so far, that is just a cartoon of a prototype!
Or it could just be the word for a tablet that has no keyboard. Slate computers have been around for years. They just always used a stylus until now.
I have to say, this is sad.
I guess all those courier fans on the other thread have to fess up.
Microsoft blew it.
Bye-bye, so-called "new, innovative Microsoft"
More of the same.
You would think with MS deep pockets that they could produce the courier, making it their own hardwar and not oem. Time for MS to stop thinking like engineers and IBM and release something like the courier that would probably do well in education and business and if they had 100% control meaning no OEM, they could build better products. They need more creativity or allow those that have the idea, to put them out. I mean songsmith. Case closed. They have too much money to be releasing things like that.
If you think what a slate needs is a desktop OS with "pretty", you may have not thought very hard about how you might actually use such a device.
I'm just caught up in all the hype. Unless Apple decide to remove the app store restrictions what you describe is a niche device to consume iTunes content (like Apple TV), not something that would appeal to the mass market.
You would think with MS deep pockets that they could produce the courier, making it their own hardwar and not oem. Time for MS to stop thinking like engineers and IBM and release something like the courier that would probably do well in education and business and if they had 100% control meaning no OEM, they could build better products. They need more creativity or allow those that have the idea, to put them out. I mean songsmith. Case closed. They have too much money to be releasing things like that.
It would probably be running Windows 7 which would just get them another anti-trust case. It sounds pretty stupid but we are talking about the same regulatory bodies that don't think a web browser or a media player are part of an OS experience.
I'm just caught up in all the hype. Unless Apple decide to remove the app store restrictions what you describe is a niche device to consume iTunes content (like Apple TV), not something that would appeal to the mass market.
Maybe you're right, but to me your comment reminds me of Steve Ballmer's of the iPhone.
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance."
Given Apple's recent track record, I wouldn't bet against Apple.
Maybe you're right, but to me your comment reminds me of Steve Ballmer's of the iPhone. "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." Given Apple's recent track record, I wouldn't bet against Apple.
I don't see the similarity because they are two totally different markets. What is the iPhone market share anyway? I thought it was something like 2-3%. Have the 2009 numbers been released yet?
Apple's track record is to produce an absolutely perfect product for a niche market. The iPod is actually something of an anomaly. The iPhone is still too early to call I think unless the numbers have changed dramatically in 2009.
What is the iPhone market share anyway? I thought it was something like 2-3%. Have the 2009 numbers been released yet?
It's tiny. But it is enough to make Apple the most profitable cellphone manufacturer in the world. Passing Nokia this year.
C.
I don't see the similarity because they are two totally different markets. What is the iPhone market share anyway? I thought it was something like 2-3%. Have the 2009 numbers been released yet?
Apple's track record is to produce an absolutely perfect product for a niche market.
For the last quarter, iPhone had a 17% share of the smartphone market. That's the market that counts. That's the market that Balmer was talking about.
Total smartphones this year... about 160 million. That's no longer a niche.
For the last quarter, iPhone had a 17% share of the smartphone market. That's the market that counts. That's the market that Balmer was talking about.
Total smartphones this year... about 160 million. That's no longer a niche.
So 17% of the smart phone market which is 14% of the mobile market is around 2-3% of the total market. That's a narrow demographic niche product.
Like I said though, I see the iPhone as a totally different product to the slate being described by most people here. The iPhone certainly has the potential to be main stream given a cheaper price tag.
When Balmer made that comment he wasn't talking about the smartphone market. He was talking about the entire mobile phone market. He even specifically mentions the total mobile sales.
So what he said is (so far) totally true. The iPhone doesn't have any kind of "significant" market share. I quote "significant" because although he was talking about sales numbers one could argue that a share of the profit is more important to a business than a share of the sales.
Of course, I've got no idea what his point was - Balmer on his best day is totally insane. As Carniphage mentioned above Apple are making a massive profit off that small market segment whilst Microsoft is making nothing (I'd suggest Windows Mobile may even be losing money).
So for him to suggest he'd rather have a large market share rather than a small one like Apple, whilst he has virtually none, doesn't make any sense at all.
In any case I still see the iPhone\\iPod market as being different to the slate market. One is main stream (or potentially so) and the other will always have a limited demographic.
It's not like I see that as being a bad thing. Targeting a product to a specific audience means it can be designed to be more ideally suited to their needs. A Ferrari is a narrow demographic niche product.