Mac OS X dev reflects on Apple, $100K tablet bounty, App Store piracy

2456

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 116
    I have spent probably $1000 AUD on the AppStore so far. For awhile I had a jail broken phone, but that was for emulators and tethering, not piracy. Why pirate apps when they're $0.99c? I don't get it.

    The GPS apps which are quite expensive (but cheap for what they are) are top of the top grossing lists, so they're obviously being purchased.

    I know people who have pirated the $150 protools remote app that is supposedly buggy and has bad reviews. I just didn't buy it. You can buy a hardware controller for that money. These figures are trying to prove that all the people who pirated an app would have bought it if there was no free option. Total rubish.



    Also, App purchases are per account, not per device. I'm on my 3rd iPhone now (original, 3g, 3gs) and my girlfriend is on her second. I still use some of the same apps and games, which are also loaded onto the kids iPod touches (2 more devices). Does this get counted for in the figures? I'm not pirating, but Super monkey ball is used on four devices yet has been installed on a total of 7 (3 of which we no longer own, and I wipe them before sale)



    It's a huge amount of assumptions.



    Also, we all know FAR MORE people who have an iPhone and aren't tech nerds than those who are. Most members of the public won't know what or how jailbreaking is performed. And won't care either. But they will buy Sallys Salon for the price of a coffee, won't they??
  • Reply 22 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    He could fill in the CEO on Apple products to which he is "not paying attention"..



    Good one!
  • Reply 23 of 116
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zak2009 View Post


    I tried it once out of curiosity back on my old 1st gen phone and found it to be a total pain in the ass and a little frightening at how easy it could have been to brick it, and a little scary trusing a complete strangers hacked version of the OS.



    Why bother?



    Things have changed a lot with the jailbreaking community. The Blackra1n jailbreak and included Sn0w unlock couldn?t be simpler. As Sapporobabyrtrns states, it?s pretty much impossible to brick. I?ve done crazy things with my iPhone and I can always get into DFU mode.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VL-Tone View Post


    But I'm with you on the fact that it may encourage piracy. There is a legal way around it (pre-paid $25 and $50 Mastercards sold in some convenience stores) and this is what I do, but I know a few people that have been bugged down by that fact and resorted to piracy. I also suspect that the upgrade ratio to OS 3.x on iPod touches has been much lower in Canada because of this.



    I hope they add a trail option for developers to implement on apps. Having a lite version is okay, but having a full version that expires would be better. I know I?ve tested expensive apps out on my jailbroken iPhone. TomTom retailing at $100 which I didn?t like and Beejive retailing at $10 which I loved and so paid $10 for it.
  • Reply 24 of 116
    Quote:

    Urban myth?



    Fear of the unknown for the not technically inclined.



    Quote:

    Using these figures it can be determined that piracy rates among apps can be as high as 90 percent.



    well, it has been shown many times that with or without anti-piracy measures, software piracy rate is around 80%-90%. that specific number doesn't quite surprise me.



    See e.g World Of Goo (DRM-free, 82-90% piracy) vs Ricochet (DRM'd, 92% piracy) at http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/
  • Reply 25 of 116
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    If that event turns out to be new Macbook Pros and Mac Pros there's going to be a lot of disappointed people out there!





    (Except me, because I want both those
  • Reply 26 of 116
    avidfcpavidfcp Posts: 381member
    Very clever marketing ploy. Will keep the tablet talked about for weeks and if Jobs shows up using ine, this was his marketing plan.



    Good idea. Make it look like a contest. Either way we will see if this is a great marketing ploy or if they can really be that secretive.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Former Apple executive Avie Tevanian discussed his former company as he joins a Palm investor, a Web site has offered up to $100,000 for information on Apple's rumored tablet, and iPhone App Store piracy has been estimated to cause $450 million in losses.



    Former Apple exec Avie Tevanian on Apple



    Avie Tevanian, in an interview with CNET, weighed in on Apple's history with the touch interface: "The whole touch interface is probably at its very early stages, which is interesting because I know when I was at Apple we were working on it many years ago, certainly before I had left. It's good to see it getting out there. Everybody is starting to use it, but my guess is there is still a lot more to be done there."



    Tevanian added that along with Apple, he keeps a close eye on Google and Facebook. "Everybody else is at a level below," he said.



    He said he is "thrilled" with Apple's success and mentioned that prototypes of many of Apple's new products existed in one form or another back during his time at the company.



    "The products you see I saw early versions of them when I was there," he said. "It is great to see them turn out so well."



    Elevation Partners, a private equity firm announced Tuesday that Tevanian had joined the company as managing director. Tevanian served as chief technology officer at Apple up until 2006, and was instrumental in the development of Mac OS X.



    App Store piracy losses estimated at $450 million



    In an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., it was determined that the App Store has lost nearly $450 million due to software piracy since the store opened in 2008. Although it is difficult to exactly measure rates of piracy, apps that "phone home" when run on a jailbroken phone can be used to provide a rough estimate. Using these figures it can be determined that piracy rates among apps can be as high as 90 percent.



    The $450 million result was reached by a long series of estimates and assumptions. By taking into account the number of total app downloads (3 billion) and an estimate of the portion of these that are paid (17 percent or 510 million) along with an assumed piracy rate of 75 percent and an average paid application price of $3.00, the result is $4.59 billion potentially lost. Finally, the legitimate app purchase rate if the app could not be pirated was pegged at 10 percent, giving the final number of $459 million.



    While these numbers are admittedly rough, the report surmises that Apple has largely ignored the piracy problem due to their focus on selling actual iPhone and iPod Touch units, much like the hands-off stance that that the company has taken with illegal music being loaded on iPods.



    Site offers $100,000 Apple Tablet bounty



    Today Valleywag announced a reward for information on Apple's much-rumored tablet device. Titled "Valleywag's Apple Tablet Scavenger Hunt," the blog is offering amounts of money that increase with the level of information provided:

    $10,000 for bona fide pictures

    $20,000 for video of one in action

    $50,000 for pictures or video of Steve Jobs holding one

    $100,000 to let them play with one for an hour

    As of now, while details about the device seem to be popping up at an increasing rate, no one knows for sure how the device will work or how one would interact with it at this point, hence the hefty reward.



    Last year, AppleInsider first reported that the device would be launched early in 2010. Currently, all signs now point to a debut at Apple's planned event on Jan. 27 at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco.



  • Reply 27 of 116
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    Quote:

    App Store piracy losses estimated at $450 million



    In an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., it was determined that the App Store has lost nearly $450 million due to software piracy since the store opened in 2008. Although it is difficult to exactly measure rates of piracy, apps that "phone home" when run on a jailbroken phone can be used to provide a rough estimate. Using these figures it can be determined that piracy rates among apps can be as high as 90 percent.



    The $450 million result was reached by a long series of estimates and assumptions. By taking into account the number of total app downloads (3 billion) and an estimate of the portion of these that are paid (17 percent or 510 million) along with an assumed piracy rate of 75 percent and an average paid application price of $3.00, the result is $4.59 billion potentially lost. Finally, the legitimate app purchase rate if the app could not be pirated was pegged at 10 percent, giving the final number of $459 million.



    While these numbers are admittedly rough, the report surmises that Apple has largely ignored the piracy problem due to their focus on selling actual iPhone and iPod Touch units, much like the hands-off stance that that the company has taken with illegal music being loaded on iPods.



    Why would someone steal a $2 or $3 app? Are people that cheap? If you can't afford it, then how did you afford the iPod touch or iPhone in first place?
  • Reply 28 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plovell View Post


    The quoted 75% piracy rate doesn't have a lot of documented support. This sounds like RIAA claiming billions in piracy, based solely on specious statistics. Does anyone have solid data?



    This doesn't sound right to me too. You also have to consider that not everyone pirating would have bought it otherwise. My little cousin is in middle school, he and all his friends pirate apps instead of buy, the majority of people probably do buy. Does anyone have the numbers of people who have accessed the Cydia Store?. I'm sure it's well under 2 million, and supposing 2 million people have Jailbroken and then decided to pirate..... The idea of billions lost from piracy don't sound right at all once you do the math.
  • Reply 29 of 116
    feynmanfeynman Posts: 1,087member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    The person might lose his or her job, but jail time isn't a factor. Leaking photos would only be a breach of contract. Breaking a contract isn't criminal.



    You would not only lose your job but your name would be on a permanent black list for the entire technology industry. Apple does not fuck around.
  • Reply 30 of 116
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,361member
    If Apple allowed iPhones open to all networks to start with, the crack hysteria probably wouldn't have boomed as it has, and they probably would have managed to keep piracy on low levels. Only people with dedicated interest would jailbreak their phones and run pirated games. Now, anyone who favours another carrier and doesn't wanna pay the unlock fee is ready to be a pirate. Those are MANY.
  • Reply 31 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palegolas View Post


    If Apple allowed iPhones open to all networks to start with, the crack hysteria probably wouldn't have boomed as it has, and they probably would have managed to keep piracy on low levels. Only people with dedicated interest would jailbreak their phones and run pirated games. Now, anyone who favours another carrier and doesn't wanna pay the unlock fee is ready to be a pirate. Those are MANY.



    What Apple should also do is allow there to be other stores than the Appstore without needing to jailbreak. If the Phone is unlocked by default and the other stores can sell whatever they want, Apple then there is no need for Jailbreaking and the abuse of it that has led to the piracy.
  • Reply 32 of 116
    Could this simply be the Apple misinformation string in turbo mode?
  • Reply 33 of 116
    Hey Steve,



    Give 'em an hour hands-on a couple of days before the keynote, take the $100,000 in cash and publicly donate it to a good cause like the Haiti Earthquake appeal?the publicity buzz would be worth it and you'd be doing some good by taking money off these asses.
  • Reply 34 of 116
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    There is no such thing as a loss due to piracy.
  • Reply 35 of 116
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    App Store piracy losses estimated at $450 million



    In an analysis by 24/7 Wall St., it was determined that the App Store has lost nearly $450 million due to software piracy since the store opened in 2008. Although it is difficult to exactly measure rates of piracy, apps that "phone home" when run on a jailbroken phone can be used to provide a rough estimate. Using these figures it can be determined that piracy rates among apps can be as high as 90 percent.



    The $450 million result was reached by a long series of estimates and assumptions. By taking into account the number of total app downloads (3 billion) and an estimate of the portion of these that are paid (17 percent or 510 million) along with an assumed piracy rate of 75 percent and an average paid application price of $3.00, the result is $4.59 billion potentially lost. Finally, the legitimate app purchase rate if the app could not be pirated was pegged at 10 percent, giving the final number of $459 million.



    And Apple made only $45M. This is how much the bunch of bastards (yes, we saw few at AI, too) costs Apple. Not everyone on earth manages to be that philanthropic.



    P.S. Provided there're lite copies of almost everything on AppStore, those bastards can not be seen otherwise than just natural born thieves. That is their first and the only vocation.
  • Reply 36 of 116
    Indeed, I have jailbroken my phone but have not pirated any app, what for, the few bucks? When I can afford an iPhone I can sure support developers. I even think that the price of the apps is too low. I'd like to pay more but in turn get more, like Nintendo quality please.
  • Reply 37 of 116
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post


    Why would someone steal a $2 or $3 app? Are people that cheap? If you can't afford it, then how did you afford the iPod touch or iPhone in first place?



    Just dishonest I guess.
  • Reply 38 of 116
    stuffestuffe Posts: 394member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    There is no such thing as a loss due to piracy.



    Could you expand on that please?
  • Reply 39 of 116
    stuffestuffe Posts: 394member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Just dishonest I guess.



    I think it's not that they can't afford the $3 for an app, it's that they can't afford (or justify, more likely) the $300 for a hundred apps - although the figures in real life never work like that:



    Reminds me of my Amiga days, where I am (now) ashamed to say I had pretty much every game going, for no other reason that to have a quick play around with them. Technically, I probably had a couple of hundred games a year which at £20 a pop is a big number. More realistically, I only ever played a small percentage for more than a few minutes, so the perceived loss as opposed to the actual loss were 2 very different figures. But yeah, there was a loss due to me pirating say 100 games, but it wasn't 100 games worth, it was more like the 6 that I actually played (for more than 10 minutes) and might/should have bought.



    I jailbroke my phone recently when blackra1n came out - I've never downloaded a pirate app (wouldn't know where to go, although I suspect it's not hard if I wanted to start looking), and only did it to use Backgrounder and to have a 5 icon homescreen dock



    I can see the "try before you buy" argument, which was more of a deal in my Amiga days when the only way to try, was to hope that a magazine put a demo of the game you wanted to try on a coverdisk and pay £3.50 for the mag anyway, but these days every app has a lite/free version to download at any time anyway (although frankly I wish that they would stop that now that the in-app purchasing is here, and just throw up a nag to buy the rest once you his the functionality/time limit that the lite version would have provided).
  • Reply 40 of 116
    daveyjjdaveyjj Posts: 120member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post


    Agreed. There were a lot of 'estimated' numbers in there, and the assumption that EVERY app is pirated at those rates.



    I find the whole idea silly that someone would waste time pirating a $3 app when it also means you have to jailbreak your phone. I tried it once out of curiosity back on my old 1st gen phone and found it to be a total pain in the ass and a little frightening at how easy it could have been to brick it, and a little scary trusing a complete strangers hacked version of the OS.



    Why bother?



    I'll pipe in at this point. I can't answer your last question but I can address the first bit.



    I had seven apps in the store in total and was lucky enough to have my first app in only a few months after the store opened. That turned out to be the best selling one, btw. I got some pretty decent reviews of the early games as well. I too found the idea of someone pirating my games, $0.99 to $2.99 absurd.



    And I'm not a naive newbie ... I'm an Apple user since the late 70s and was around during the days when you could rent software like Quark and Adobe Illustrator. There was never piracy then.



    But after finding my second app on the usual pirate app sites within eight hours after it hit the store, I started to really look at my high score logs. The seven apps averaged 87% rate of piracy ... only 13% of the high score loggers were actual purchasers.



    Every app pirated? Obviously not. But I looked through those pirate app sites carefully and I found 98 of the top 100 apps available (this was a year ago now though). I have no idea why someone would pirate a $0.99 app. Seriously ... I wish I did but it makes no sense to me at all. It's $1.



    My $0.02.



    P.S. My website is still up ... http://www.kokotap.com but after having to deal with Apple's Byzantine approval process for almost 18 months, and making requested changes to my company name (originally Cocoa Touch Games) after getting some trademark-related legal notices from Apple, I gave up developing. I'm far less stressed now. Now I can focus on playing. Back to Angry Birds now.
Sign In or Register to comment.