Only someone deluded by Apple marketing thinks that 3G was utterly pointless before the iPhone. Laughable.
I don't think solipsism was saying 3G was utterly pointless. But its use was limited and expensive. Prior to the iPhone there was no phone that showcased the full potential of data on the phone. It was mostly used for email on Blackberry and Palm Treo.
If this were not the case the iPhone would not have been able to dominate app sales and internet marketshare the way it has.
Quote:
The iPhone was utterly pointless before it was 3G.
That's not true. Three months after the original iPhone launch, mobile Safari quickly surpassed all other mobile browsers to lead in marketshare. Five months after launch, iPhone OS was the top four OS used on the web after Linux. That was with EDGE.
I don't think solipsism was saying 3G was utterly pointless. But its use was limited and expensive. Prior to the iPhone there was no phone that showcased the full potential of data on the phone. It was mostly used for email on Blackberry and Palm Treo.
If this were not the case the iPhone would not have been able to dominate app sales and internet marketshare the way it has.
That's not true. Three months after the original iPhone launch, mobile Safari quickly surpassed all other mobile browsers to lead in marketshare. Five months after launch, iPhone OS was the top four OS used on the web after Linux. That was with EDGE.
Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. I will try to be clearer. Sometime I use my iPhone to replay and/or doing a dozen other things at once, and forget the diversity of the audience on these forums.
edit: Just went over my post. My rant to Samab seems pretty concise to me. The sentence Pmz has a problem with also seems clear.
Quote:
You ignore the fact that higher-speed data for phones were mostly pointless for most users until the iPhone made smartphones viable for the average consumer creating an entire shift in the market.
Sure, tech heads and business users had smartphones and were using dozens, maybe even hundreds of MBs per month but none had a decent web-browser, despite both Nokia and RiM using WebKit. None were easy to use and designed or marketed for the average consumer. The 7000% increase in data from AT&T, the change in the way phones are marketed, designed or built changed after the iPhone came around. Having a useable web browser became an important focus overnight. Most people I know with iPhones had never had a PDA or smartphone before and now many are on their 2nd or 3rd. For frak?s sake my Mom has an iPhone!
PS: Was at CES last week. Had no HSDPA in the hotel at one point. Next to guy with Droid who had EV-DO going. After a little discussion decided to test bandwidth. My EDGE beat his ?3G? in download speed, he won on upload, but not by much. Perhaps real world usage should be considered over ineffective and inequivalent marketing terms that use the identical initialisms but have very different meanings. Just sayin?. \
That's not true. Three months after the original iPhone launch, mobile Safari quickly surpassed all other mobile browsers to lead in marketshare. Five months after launch, iPhone OS was the top four OS used on the web after Linux. That was with EDGE.
Thanks for saying that, or I would have said that I don't think my 2G iPhone is pointless at ALL. It's way more usable than a Blackberry for example... or any phone that came before it. And yes, the web statistics help in backing up my (and others) claim that the 2G iPhone was a revelation to users who hoped for something better than a Nokia. So take that, troll. I just unraveled your theory that 2G iPhones were utterly useless to everyone
When I find myself in that situation I'll usually ask the person if I can call them right back. I wonder why the iPhone can't go from Edge to 3G while not dropping the call? You have to hang up and let it reconnect to 3G.
When I find myself in that situation I'll usually ask the person if I can call them right back. I wonder why the iPhone can't go from Edge to 3G while not dropping the call? You have to hang up and let it reconnect to 3G.
It’s an inherent limitation with the technology. (2G)GSM has no soft handoff, while 3G(UMTS) does, so you can go from being on 3G to 2G from your iPhone fine, but you can’t go the other way. A disconnect is required.
CDMA and CDMA2000 both have soft handoffs and we know CDMA has a better voice algorithm than GSM, but CDMA also use more power than GSM and there is no simultaneous data unless you have EV-Do Rev. B.
Each has their pros and cons but I’ll be staying with AT&T even if all the US carriers get the iPhone.
edit: At least, that is how I understand it. It’s been awhile so I may have some details askew…
The new plans aren't yet up on the ATT site, as far as I can see, but in the area where you switch plans, the moment you click on any plan, the system warns you that switching voids all your accumulated rollover minutes. The free market giveth; the free market taketh. Those minutes from _past_ months' voice rates; I shouldn't lose them because I choose to take a new plan with lower minutes/data rates in the _future_. As an NYC resident, ATT coverage is hopelessly spotty. Every 2nd call gets dropped. I'll be switching to Verizon at the earliest possible iPhone opportunity. Just my two cents; I'm well aware there's no reason for anyone to care what my opinion is.
The new plans aren't yet up on the ATT site, as far as I can see, but in the area where you switch plans, the moment you click on any plan, the system warns you that switching voids all your accumulated rollover minutes. The free market giveth; the free market taketh. Those minutes from _past_ months' voice rates; I shouldn't lose them because I choose to take a new plan with lower minutes/data rates in the _future_. As an NYC resident, ATT coverage is hopelessly spotty. Every 2nd call gets dropped. I'll be switching to Verizon at the earliest possible iPhone opportunity. Just my two cents; I'm well aware there's no reason for anyone to care what my opinion is.
Yeah, because you'll need a lot of rollover minutes on an unlimited plan. Not to mention the fact that the change in ATT's offerings won't occur until Monday.
What you're talking about is gaming the system. If you were allowed to keep your rollover minutes when moving to a lower rate plan, you could, say sign up for a 4000 minute plan ($160) one month and then a 450 minute plan ($40) the next 11. If your monthly usage averages 600 minutes, you'd end up paying $600 for a year of service and never go over. However, if you had to keep one plan all year, you'd need the 900 minute plan ($60) and pay a total of $720.
If you want to pay by the minute, do so, but ATT can't accommodate every arbitrageur out there who wants to swipe a nickel off them.
The days of the phone are numbered. If the technology was designed today it would not ring. In an always connected world, we want privacy and relaxation when possible.
The carriers know people want more data, less minutes. That's why unlimited plans are a way to extract more money. I'd soon expect them to drop unlimited data unless it's bundled with unlimited calls. Make people pay for both to get the single thing they want.
Why would it not ring? Unless you're constantly staring at the phone how else would you know someone was calling you? Just because someone calls you doesn't mean you want to speak to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darwiniandude
The days of the phone are numbered. If the technology was designed today it would not ring. In an always connected world, we want privacy and relaxation when possible.
That's always been the case with roll over minutes. Its to prevent people from using higher minute plans and storing up a bunch of minutes then switching to a lower cost plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resnyc
The new plans aren't yet up on the ATT site, as far as I can see, but in the area where you switch plans, the moment you click on any plan, the system warns you that switching voids all your accumulated rollover minutes. The free market giveth; the free market taketh. Those minutes from _past_ months' voice rates; I shouldn't lose them because I choose to take a new plan with lower minutes/data rates in the _future_.
I am seeing things, or all carriers including T-Mobile upping their monthly fees for no good reason? I see plans starting 39.99 at T-Mobile... have they gotten greedy? I think they're preparing for the onslaught of iPhone users...
Actually, there's NO reason why carriers shouldn't offer lower priced plans. It's like they all want the current customers to stay, so they all raise their entry prices. WTH, this is real competition? A continual raising of prices on lower-tier plans?
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. When the exclusivity ends on AT&T, you will see the prices go up for the iPhone plans. Verizon isn't cheaper, and you will see "competition" make AT&T stay just under Verizon for their pricing plans, although it will be higher than they are now.
The reason, as far as I can tell, is AT&T is probably low balling their data plans to keep their subscribers. They could/should actually charge more for the data. Verizon's "lowering" of their data plans came with a steep reduction in data allowance. The carriers have no real competition, they just collaborate on pricing, much like their wired counterparts.
It?s an inherent limitation with the technology. (2G)GSM has no soft handoff, while 3G(UMTS) does, so you can go from being on 3G to 2G from your iPhone fine, but you can?t go the other way. A disconnect is required.
My iPhone has always lost the call going to Edge from 3G as well. I've had a few iPhones, and they've all showed the same behavior.
My iPhone has always lost the call going to Edge from 3G as well. I've had a few iPhones, and they've all showed the same behavior.
It's not possible for the iPhone to go from edge to 3g, so what must be happening is you're on edge and then you drop the network. When you phone finds the network again, it's back to being 3g. The problem is not dropping calls as you described, but that if you start a 60 minute phone call on 3g, if at any point you go into an edge only area, you will be stuck on edge until you end the call, no matter if you go back into 3g area or not.
It's not possible for the iPhone to go from edge to 3g, so what must be happening is you're on edge and then you drop the network. When you phone finds the network again, it's back to being 3g. The problem is not dropping calls as you described, but that if you start a 60 minute phone call on 3g, if at any point you go into an edge only area, you will be stuck on edge until you end the call, no matter if you go back into 3g area or not.
Hmm...perhaps. Maybe it bounces back and forth for a second also, going from 3g-->2g-->3g-->2g, then I look at it wondering what happened.
Hmm...perhaps. Maybe it bounces back and forth for a second also, going from 3g-->2g-->3g-->2g, then I look at it wondering what happened.
That can happen, but not while actively using the network. As Cameronj stated, once you drop from 3G to 2G you are stuck there for the duration of the call.
That can happen, but not while actively using the network. As Cameronj stated, once you drop from 3G to 2G you are stuck there for the duration of the call.
Ah, I see. Then Edge does suck worse than I thought.
Comments
Only someone deluded by Apple marketing thinks that 3G was utterly pointless before the iPhone. Laughable.
I don't think solipsism was saying 3G was utterly pointless. But its use was limited and expensive. Prior to the iPhone there was no phone that showcased the full potential of data on the phone. It was mostly used for email on Blackberry and Palm Treo.
If this were not the case the iPhone would not have been able to dominate app sales and internet marketshare the way it has.
The iPhone was utterly pointless before it was 3G.
That's not true. Three months after the original iPhone launch, mobile Safari quickly surpassed all other mobile browsers to lead in marketshare. Five months after launch, iPhone OS was the top four OS used on the web after Linux. That was with EDGE.
I don't think solipsism was saying 3G was utterly pointless. But its use was limited and expensive. Prior to the iPhone there was no phone that showcased the full potential of data on the phone. It was mostly used for email on Blackberry and Palm Treo.
If this were not the case the iPhone would not have been able to dominate app sales and internet marketshare the way it has.
That's not true. Three months after the original iPhone launch, mobile Safari quickly surpassed all other mobile browsers to lead in marketshare. Five months after launch, iPhone OS was the top four OS used on the web after Linux. That was with EDGE.
Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. I will try to be clearer. Sometime I use my iPhone to replay and/or doing a dozen other things at once, and forget the diversity of the audience on these forums.
edit: Just went over my post. My rant to Samab seems pretty concise to me. The sentence Pmz has a problem with also seems clear.
You ignore the fact that higher-speed data for phones were mostly pointless for most users until the iPhone made smartphones viable for the average consumer creating an entire shift in the market.
Sure, tech heads and business users had smartphones and were using dozens, maybe even hundreds of MBs per month but none had a decent web-browser, despite both Nokia and RiM using WebKit. None were easy to use and designed or marketed for the average consumer. The 7000% increase in data from AT&T, the change in the way phones are marketed, designed or built changed after the iPhone came around. Having a useable web browser became an important focus overnight. Most people I know with iPhones had never had a PDA or smartphone before and now many are on their 2nd or 3rd. For frak?s sake my Mom has an iPhone!
PS: Was at CES last week. Had no HSDPA in the hotel at one point. Next to guy with Droid who had EV-DO going. After a little discussion decided to test bandwidth. My EDGE beat his ?3G? in download speed, he won on upload, but not by much. Perhaps real world usage should be considered over ineffective and inequivalent marketing terms that use the identical initialisms but have very different meanings. Just sayin?.
That's not true. Three months after the original iPhone launch, mobile Safari quickly surpassed all other mobile browsers to lead in marketshare. Five months after launch, iPhone OS was the top four OS used on the web after Linux. That was with EDGE.
Thanks for saying that, or I would have said that I don't think my 2G iPhone is pointless at ALL. It's way more usable than a Blackberry for example... or any phone that came before it. And yes, the web statistics help in backing up my (and others) claim that the 2G iPhone was a revelation to users who hoped for something better than a Nokia. So take that, troll. I just unraveled your theory that 2G iPhones were utterly useless to everyone
I've had quite a few times where the iPhone is not on 3G and on Edge and you can't talk and surf.
Right. Doesn't it SUCK? Can you imagine that being the case ALL the time?
Right. Doesn't it SUCK? Can you imagine that being the case ALL the time?
Word!
Word!
When I find myself in that situation I'll usually ask the person if I can call them right back. I wonder why the iPhone can't go from Edge to 3G while not dropping the call? You have to hang up and let it reconnect to 3G.
When I find myself in that situation I'll usually ask the person if I can call them right back. I wonder why the iPhone can't go from Edge to 3G while not dropping the call? You have to hang up and let it reconnect to 3G.
It’s an inherent limitation with the technology. (2G)GSM has no soft handoff, while 3G(UMTS) does, so you can go from being on 3G to 2G from your iPhone fine, but you can’t go the other way. A disconnect is required.
CDMA and CDMA2000 both have soft handoffs and we know CDMA has a better voice algorithm than GSM, but CDMA also use more power than GSM and there is no simultaneous data unless you have EV-Do Rev. B.
Each has their pros and cons but I’ll be staying with AT&T even if all the US carriers get the iPhone.
edit: At least, that is how I understand it. It’s been awhile so I may have some details askew…
The new plans aren't yet up on the ATT site, as far as I can see, but in the area where you switch plans, the moment you click on any plan, the system warns you that switching voids all your accumulated rollover minutes. The free market giveth; the free market taketh. Those minutes from _past_ months' voice rates; I shouldn't lose them because I choose to take a new plan with lower minutes/data rates in the _future_. As an NYC resident, ATT coverage is hopelessly spotty. Every 2nd call gets dropped. I'll be switching to Verizon at the earliest possible iPhone opportunity. Just my two cents; I'm well aware there's no reason for anyone to care what my opinion is.
Yeah, because you'll need a lot of rollover minutes on an unlimited plan. Not to mention the fact that the change in ATT's offerings won't occur until Monday.
What you're talking about is gaming the system. If you were allowed to keep your rollover minutes when moving to a lower rate plan, you could, say sign up for a 4000 minute plan ($160) one month and then a 450 minute plan ($40) the next 11. If your monthly usage averages 600 minutes, you'd end up paying $600 for a year of service and never go over. However, if you had to keep one plan all year, you'd need the 900 minute plan ($60) and pay a total of $720.
If you want to pay by the minute, do so, but ATT can't accommodate every arbitrageur out there who wants to swipe a nickel off them.
The carriers know people want more data, less minutes. That's why unlimited plans are a way to extract more money. I'd soon expect them to drop unlimited data unless it's bundled with unlimited calls. Make people pay for both to get the single thing they want.
The days of the phone are numbered. If the technology was designed today it would not ring. In an always connected world, we want privacy and relaxation when possible.
The new plans aren't yet up on the ATT site, as far as I can see, but in the area where you switch plans, the moment you click on any plan, the system warns you that switching voids all your accumulated rollover minutes. The free market giveth; the free market taketh. Those minutes from _past_ months' voice rates; I shouldn't lose them because I choose to take a new plan with lower minutes/data rates in the _future_.
I am seeing things, or all carriers including T-Mobile upping their monthly fees for no good reason? I see plans starting 39.99 at T-Mobile... have they gotten greedy? I think they're preparing for the onslaught of iPhone users...
Actually, there's NO reason why carriers shouldn't offer lower priced plans. It's like they all want the current customers to stay, so they all raise their entry prices. WTH, this is real competition? A continual raising of prices on lower-tier plans?
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. When the exclusivity ends on AT&T, you will see the prices go up for the iPhone plans. Verizon isn't cheaper, and you will see "competition" make AT&T stay just under Verizon for their pricing plans, although it will be higher than they are now.
The reason, as far as I can tell, is AT&T is probably low balling their data plans to keep their subscribers. They could/should actually charge more for the data. Verizon's "lowering" of their data plans came with a steep reduction in data allowance. The carriers have no real competition, they just collaborate on pricing, much like their wired counterparts.
It?s an inherent limitation with the technology. (2G)GSM has no soft handoff, while 3G(UMTS) does, so you can go from being on 3G to 2G from your iPhone fine, but you can?t go the other way. A disconnect is required.
My iPhone has always lost the call going to Edge from 3G as well. I've had a few iPhones, and they've all showed the same behavior.
Verizon went national with 3G in 2004 --- and people are only starting to complain about it 6 years later.
Probably because before now there weren't any "smartphones" worthy of extend data usage...
It's pretty hard to miss a feature you never use...
I don't want a cheaper unlimited plan, I want a cheaper/fewer minutes plan!
+2
My desire as well!
My iPhone has always lost the call going to Edge from 3G as well. I've had a few iPhones, and they've all showed the same behavior.
It's not possible for the iPhone to go from edge to 3g, so what must be happening is you're on edge and then you drop the network. When you phone finds the network again, it's back to being 3g. The problem is not dropping calls as you described, but that if you start a 60 minute phone call on 3g, if at any point you go into an edge only area, you will be stuck on edge until you end the call, no matter if you go back into 3g area or not.
It's not possible for the iPhone to go from edge to 3g, so what must be happening is you're on edge and then you drop the network. When you phone finds the network again, it's back to being 3g. The problem is not dropping calls as you described, but that if you start a 60 minute phone call on 3g, if at any point you go into an edge only area, you will be stuck on edge until you end the call, no matter if you go back into 3g area or not.
Hmm...perhaps. Maybe it bounces back and forth for a second also, going from 3g-->2g-->3g-->2g, then I look at it wondering what happened.
Hmm...perhaps. Maybe it bounces back and forth for a second also, going from 3g-->2g-->3g-->2g, then I look at it wondering what happened.
That can happen, but not while actively using the network. As Cameronj stated, once you drop from 3G to 2G you are stuck there for the duration of the call.
That can happen, but not while actively using the network. As Cameronj stated, once you drop from 3G to 2G you are stuck there for the duration of the call.
Ah, I see. Then Edge does suck worse than I thought.