Ah, I see. Then Edge does suck worse than I thought.
Imagine - every Verizon smartphone acts like that iPhone on Edge anytime you are on a call! I was probably 75% sure i'd swap over to a Verizon iPhone until I learned that.
Ah, I see. Then Edge does suck worse than I thought.
I actually may have some of this info wrong. From what I?m reading it looks like it may be possible for an inter-tech handoff from GSM to UMTS and vice versa. That doesn?t mean AT&T can do it, but I have obviously have forgotten some very key points so ignore everything I stated (except for this bit where I said to ignore everythign I stated ).
I actually may have some of this info wrong. From what I?m reading it looks like it may be possible for an inter-tech handoff from GSM to UMTS and vice versa. That doesn?t mean AT&T can do it, but I have obviously have forgotten some very key points so ignore everything I stated (except for this bit where I said to ignore everythign I stated ).
Old age. Things I never thought I?d forget are gone yet i still know my grandparent?s phone number from when I was 6yo. The mind is an amazing thing but sometimes I fear it has a Windows Registry and no defrag app.
Imagine - every Verizon smartphone acts like that iPhone on Edge anytime you are on a call! I was probably 75% sure i'd swap over to a Verizon iPhone until I learned that.
I'm not sure what you mean? Verizon very rarely drops from EVDO in NY, so the voice calls seem that much better than AT&T's voice service. Trust me, I've been trying to get my wife to switch for years now. Lately though, with the upgrades, AT&T's voice service is very, very similar to Verizon's in my area, they drop calls in the same areas which is due to no service at all. These areas are 1/2 mile stretches on I-84 and the Taconic State Parkway, where there are valleys. Any provider would be hard pressed to maintain a call in these locations.
Where AT&T still lags a bit is indoor service, but that is obviously a technological limitation.
I'm not sure what you mean? Verizon very rarely drops from EVDO in NY, so the voice calls seem that much better than AT&T's voice service. Trust me, I've been trying to get my wife to switch for years now. Lately though, with the upgrades, AT&T's voice service is very, very similar to Verizon's in my area, they drop calls in the same areas which is due to no service at all. These areas are 1/2 mile stretches on I-84 and the Taconic State Parkway, where there are valleys. Any provider would be hard pressed to maintain a call in these locations.
Where AT&T still lags a bit is indoor service, but that is obviously a technological limitation.
He means that you won’t get simultaneous voice and data on Verizon (or Sprint) regardless of using 2G or 3G, whilst on AT&T and T-Mobile you will if you are on 3G.
PS: That will change when Verizon moved to LTE in both their network and their devices but that is still a long way off. AT&T’s move to the 800MHz spectrum will greatly assist building penetration. Finally, CDMA’s voice algorithm is vastly superior to GSM, but should be about the same when making a 3G call, but this isn’t necessarily true either. \
I currently pay $59 for 900 minute plan with rollover minutes of which I never go over 900 minutes and I've accumulated like 2000 rollover minutes and I pay $30 unlimited data plan which comes out to $89 for me, so I save $10 bucks...If you have a lot of rollover minutes or never go over 900 minutes I wouldn't switch!
I'm in that boat, I love rollover as anytime I wish to have a rediculously long conversation I can, but doesn't mean I have to pay for that feature for every stinking month. It's more of an as needed service, which makes a lot more sense to me.
I also wouldn't mind if they restricted data service, so long as they gave me the same option to roll over my unused bandwidth. I love service with some usable quantity to it instead of the "in case you need us" type services, get more for your buck.
There will be no CDMA iPhone. Verizon's migrating to LTE within a year or two - then they'll probably have the iPhone. If you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
There will be no CDMA iPhone. Verizon's migrating to LTE within a year or two - then they'll probably have the iPhone. If you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
I agree with you but lets not forget that Apple did release a ?unique? iPhone in China when they could have waited a few months and had WiFi included. We still don?t know how Apple disabled WiFi. If it was a HW change then there is precedence, if it was just an exclusion from the firmware then we know that Apple wasn?t willing to alter the HW.
Regardless, I’m not giving up rollover minutes (though it’s not like I ever use them), unlimited data, HSDPA/HSUPA that Verizon can’t even come close to matching, and most importantly, simultaneous voice and data for the most worthwhile multitasking option.
Agree on everything except you surely realize that the fact that you have roll over minutes means that you are paying for more minutes than you can use. It's not like you can skip paying anything for a couple months and use up your saved minutes.
Agree on everything except you surely realize that the fact that you have roll over minutes means that you are paying for more minutes than you can use. It's not like you can skip paying anything for a couple months and use up your saved minutes.
I understand and I would take less than 450minutes a month if I could. However, my phone habits are not consistent. I probably do around 50-100 minutes a month most months, but some months I will do well over a 1000. After 12 months I still have plenty accumulated but those odd months that use well over my limit do save me some coin.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. When the exclusivity ends on AT&T, you will see the prices go up for the iPhone plans. Verizon isn't cheaper, and you will see "competition" make AT&T stay just under Verizon for their pricing plans, although it will be higher than they are now.
The reason, as far as I can tell, is AT&T is probably low balling their data plans to keep their subscribers. They could/should actually charge more for the data. Verizon's "lowering" of their data plans came with a steep reduction in data allowance. The carriers have no real competition, they just collaborate on pricing, much like their wired counterparts.
Yikes, really!?
Technohermit thanks for your post. Your point is convincing, seems very plausible. I was pondering waiting perhaps up to 6 months to see if Verizon got iPhone. I wouldn't have waited any longer... I suppose there is a chance they would've gotten it by June, although probably less than half a chance this will happen. Anyhow, your argument is very interesting and something I hadn't considered. I'm going to get an iPhone in two weeks. Of course I want to wait until this special event thing in two weeks, just in case, but then I'm going to get an iPhone and (hopefully new) MBP. Your point is definitely the last little push I needed to convince myself it's time to move to AT&T. That and I have a family member that gets 20% off AT&T plans with an employee discount. I'm hoping she can hook me up somehow.
Plus I hope they DO add tiered plans. I probably use less data and voice than most people. Maybe a few hundred minutes at most a month, maybe as little as 200. I don't know if I'd use a lot of data but I'd guess based on other posters here...less than a few hundred megs a month? I guess that'd be small? Anyway for now I'll just get the $70/mo regular plan.
Anyone know how AT&T is in the southeast, particularly Columbia, SC? I'd assume good, I see headquarters in most southeastern cities and tons of resellers. Seems more like AT&T country down here, whereas back in New England Verizon was def. the best and most popular.
I understand and I would take less than 450minutes a month if I could. However, my phone habits are not consistent. I probably do around 50-100 minutes a month most months, but some months I will do well over a 1000. After 12 months I still have plenty accumulated but those odd months that use well over my limit do save me some coin.
Makes sense. I travel occasionally which is when I would probably use my phone more than usual, but I still probably would not come close to 450. I haven't checked my roll over minutes but it must be in the thousands since I've had AT&T since the original iPhone. I just don't talk that much so it seems like a huge rip off for me.
There will be no CDMA iPhone. Verizon's migrating to LTE within a year or two - then they'll probably have the iPhone. If you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
It takes billions of dollars for the carriers to migrate to a different network. It takes millions of dollars for Apple to create a different iphone model.
With all the supposed added cost for designing, manufacturing, inventorying, and supporting a second iphone model will --- suddenly --- reduce Apple's iphone gross profit margin from 50% down to what? 45%.
People think that CDMA phones cost a lot of money to make because of Qualcomm. Funny thing is that the one Android phone that Verizon has --- has a TI chipset inside. All the other Android phones from T-Mobile and AT&T line-ups are all Qualcomm chipset inside.
There will be no CDMA iPhone. Verizon's migrating to LTE within a year or two - then they'll probably have the iPhone. If you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
I agree. Apple will also never release an iPhone without 3G support, because "if you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
Makes sense. I travel occasionally which is when I would probably use my phone more than usual, but I still probably would not come close to 450. I haven't checked my roll over minutes but it must be in the thousands since I've had AT&T since the original iPhone. I just don't talk that much so it seems like a huge rip off for me.
I agree. Apple will also never release an iPhone without 3G support, because "if you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
Cell phones are pretty much a disposable product --- you ain't going to keep it more than 2 years. Nothing is going to be resolved in 2 years because Verizon ain't going to plaster the whole US in that time frame.
It's not like Apple has to rewrite the entire OS when they transitioned from PowerPC to Intel. Every single cell phone on the planet is based on an ARM chip architecture. It's just writing one little wireless driver for the iphone OS --- and Apple doesn't even have to write that driver because chipset manufacturers will gladly write it for you for free (in order to sell you extra chipsets).
The added cost ain't that much --- chipset manufacturers will write the driver for you for free, Qualcomm ain't charging an arm and a leg (all the T-Mobile and AT&T Android phones have Qualcomm chipsets inside).
Therefore the only question is whether Apple will accept going from 50% gross profit margin down to say 45% --- that's going to happen when you no longer have an exclusivity deal with AT&T (i.e. Apple sells a single iphone model to both AT&T and T-Mobile). Then whether Apple will accept Verizon's hardballed negotiation of dropping it down another 5% --- that's the price of getting America's largest carrier to sell the iphone (instead of T-Mobile the smallest carrier). Then whether Apple will accept dropping another 5% in profit margin because Apple has to design, manufacture and inventory a CDMA iphone. That's still getting a 35% margins for Apple when Nokia is getting something like 12-14%.
And what has the free market done for roaming charges? Roaming charges are for most people a rare enough event that people are not price-sensitive to them.
If one could choose a different provider for roaming purposes, there would be a lot more competition. Or if SIM-locks would be illegal, you at least could get a local SIM card. Providers could still recoup their subsidies by two-year contracts with high baseline charges.
But the free market would never outlaw SIM locks.
Free market has done a lot reducing roaming charges to the point where they pretty much don't effect 90% of cell phone users. I take it you didn't have a cell phone in the late 80's? I remember when I bought my first cell phone, it was from Aerial because at the time they were they only ones which significantly covered the areas of Florida and Pennsylvania I lived/visited AND I didn't have to pay roaming charges when I was traveling across state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Without tethering, I can do that at an airport renting movies or buying the previous night?s TV Shows for a trip.
Or by one posting session to AppleInsider...
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. When the exclusivity ends on AT&T, you will see the prices go up for the iPhone plans. Verizon isn't cheaper, and you will see "competition" make AT&T stay just under Verizon for their pricing plans, although it will be higher than they are now.
The reason, as far as I can tell, is AT&T is probably low balling their data plans to keep their subscribers. They could/should actually charge more for the data. Verizon's "lowering" of their data plans came with a steep reduction in data allowance. The carriers have no real competition, they just collaborate on pricing, much like their wired counterparts.
I don't know what businesses you've worked in but competition in the long run makes things cheaper 99% of the time. In any business I've worked in we have never been able to raise our prices because there are more companies doing what we are doing. We have been able to charge more because we were BETTER than our competition, but that is an increase in service not just a price hike "just because".
Comments
Ah, I see. Then Edge does suck worse than I thought.
Imagine - every Verizon smartphone acts like that iPhone on Edge anytime you are on a call! I was probably 75% sure i'd swap over to a Verizon iPhone until I learned that.
Ah, I see. Then Edge does suck worse than I thought.
I actually may have some of this info wrong. From what I?m reading it looks like it may be possible for an inter-tech handoff from GSM to UMTS and vice versa. That doesn?t mean AT&T can do it, but I have obviously have forgotten some very key points so ignore everything I stated (except for this bit where I said to ignore everythign I stated
I actually may have some of this info wrong. From what I?m reading it looks like it may be possible for an inter-tech handoff from GSM to UMTS and vice versa. That doesn?t mean AT&T can do it, but I have obviously have forgotten some very key points so ignore everything I stated (except for this bit where I said to ignore everythign I stated
Miswikiformation?
Miswikiformation?
Old age. Things I never thought I?d forget are gone yet i still know my grandparent?s phone number from when I was 6yo. The mind is an amazing thing but sometimes I fear it has a Windows Registry and no defrag app.
Imagine - every Verizon smartphone acts like that iPhone on Edge anytime you are on a call! I was probably 75% sure i'd swap over to a Verizon iPhone until I learned that.
I'm not sure what you mean? Verizon very rarely drops from EVDO in NY, so the voice calls seem that much better than AT&T's voice service. Trust me, I've been trying to get my wife to switch for years now. Lately though, with the upgrades, AT&T's voice service is very, very similar to Verizon's in my area, they drop calls in the same areas which is due to no service at all. These areas are 1/2 mile stretches on I-84 and the Taconic State Parkway, where there are valleys. Any provider would be hard pressed to maintain a call in these locations.
Where AT&T still lags a bit is indoor service, but that is obviously a technological limitation.
I'm not sure what you mean? Verizon very rarely drops from EVDO in NY, so the voice calls seem that much better than AT&T's voice service. Trust me, I've been trying to get my wife to switch for years now. Lately though, with the upgrades, AT&T's voice service is very, very similar to Verizon's in my area, they drop calls in the same areas which is due to no service at all. These areas are 1/2 mile stretches on I-84 and the Taconic State Parkway, where there are valleys. Any provider would be hard pressed to maintain a call in these locations.
Where AT&T still lags a bit is indoor service, but that is obviously a technological limitation.
He means that you won’t get simultaneous voice and data on Verizon (or Sprint) regardless of using 2G or 3G, whilst on AT&T and T-Mobile you will if you are on 3G.
PS: That will change when Verizon moved to LTE in both their network and their devices but that is still a long way off. AT&T’s move to the 800MHz spectrum will greatly assist building penetration. Finally, CDMA’s voice algorithm is vastly superior to GSM, but should be about the same when making a 3G call, but this isn’t necessarily true either.
I currently pay $59 for 900 minute plan with rollover minutes of which I never go over 900 minutes and I've accumulated like 2000 rollover minutes and I pay $30 unlimited data plan which comes out to $89 for me, so I save $10 bucks...If you have a lot of rollover minutes or never go over 900 minutes I wouldn't switch!
I'm in that boat, I love rollover as anytime I wish to have a rediculously long conversation I can, but doesn't mean I have to pay for that feature for every stinking month. It's more of an as needed service, which makes a lot more sense to me.
I also wouldn't mind if they restricted data service, so long as they gave me the same option to roll over my unused bandwidth. I love service with some usable quantity to it instead of the "in case you need us" type services, get more for your buck.
There will be no CDMA iPhone. Verizon's migrating to LTE within a year or two - then they'll probably have the iPhone. If you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
I agree with you but lets not forget that Apple did release a ?unique? iPhone in China when they could have waited a few months and had WiFi included. We still don?t know how Apple disabled WiFi. If it was a HW change then there is precedence, if it was just an exclusion from the firmware then we know that Apple wasn?t willing to alter the HW.
Regardless, I’m not giving up rollover minutes (though it’s not like I ever use them), unlimited data, HSDPA/HSUPA that Verizon can’t even come close to matching, and most importantly, simultaneous voice and data for the most worthwhile multitasking option.
Agree on everything except you surely realize that the fact that you have roll over minutes means that you are paying for more minutes than you can use. It's not like you can skip paying anything for a couple months and use up your saved minutes.
Agree on everything except you surely realize that the fact that you have roll over minutes means that you are paying for more minutes than you can use. It's not like you can skip paying anything for a couple months and use up your saved minutes.
I understand and I would take less than 450minutes a month if I could. However, my phone habits are not consistent. I probably do around 50-100 minutes a month most months, but some months I will do well over a 1000. After 12 months I still have plenty accumulated but those odd months that use well over my limit do save me some coin.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. When the exclusivity ends on AT&T, you will see the prices go up for the iPhone plans. Verizon isn't cheaper, and you will see "competition" make AT&T stay just under Verizon for their pricing plans, although it will be higher than they are now.
The reason, as far as I can tell, is AT&T is probably low balling their data plans to keep their subscribers. They could/should actually charge more for the data. Verizon's "lowering" of their data plans came with a steep reduction in data allowance. The carriers have no real competition, they just collaborate on pricing, much like their wired counterparts.
Yikes, really!?
Technohermit thanks for your post. Your point is convincing, seems very plausible. I was pondering waiting perhaps up to 6 months to see if Verizon got iPhone. I wouldn't have waited any longer... I suppose there is a chance they would've gotten it by June, although probably less than half a chance this will happen. Anyhow, your argument is very interesting and something I hadn't considered. I'm going to get an iPhone in two weeks. Of course I want to wait until this special event thing in two weeks, just in case, but then I'm going to get an iPhone and (hopefully new) MBP. Your point is definitely the last little push I needed to convince myself it's time to move to AT&T. That and I have a family member that gets 20% off AT&T plans with an employee discount. I'm hoping she can hook me up somehow.
Plus I hope they DO add tiered plans. I probably use less data and voice than most people. Maybe a few hundred minutes at most a month, maybe as little as 200. I don't know if I'd use a lot of data but I'd guess based on other posters here...less than a few hundred megs a month? I guess that'd be small? Anyway for now I'll just get the $70/mo regular plan.
Anyone know how AT&T is in the southeast, particularly Columbia, SC? I'd assume good, I see headquarters in most southeastern cities and tons of resellers. Seems more like AT&T country down here, whereas back in New England Verizon was def. the best and most popular.
I understand and I would take less than 450minutes a month if I could. However, my phone habits are not consistent. I probably do around 50-100 minutes a month most months, but some months I will do well over a 1000. After 12 months I still have plenty accumulated but those odd months that use well over my limit do save me some coin.
Makes sense. I travel occasionally which is when I would probably use my phone more than usual, but I still probably would not come close to 450. I haven't checked my roll over minutes but it must be in the thousands since I've had AT&T since the original iPhone. I just don't talk that much so it seems like a huge rip off for me.
There will be no CDMA iPhone. Verizon's migrating to LTE within a year or two - then they'll probably have the iPhone. If you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
It takes billions of dollars for the carriers to migrate to a different network. It takes millions of dollars for Apple to create a different iphone model.
With all the supposed added cost for designing, manufacturing, inventorying, and supporting a second iphone model will --- suddenly --- reduce Apple's iphone gross profit margin from 50% down to what? 45%.
People think that CDMA phones cost a lot of money to make because of Qualcomm. Funny thing is that the one Android phone that Verizon has --- has a TI chipset inside. All the other Android phones from T-Mobile and AT&T line-ups are all Qualcomm chipset inside.
There will be no CDMA iPhone. Verizon's migrating to LTE within a year or two - then they'll probably have the iPhone. If you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
I agree. Apple will also never release an iPhone without 3G support, because "if you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
Makes sense. I travel occasionally which is when I would probably use my phone more than usual, but I still probably would not come close to 450. I haven't checked my roll over minutes but it must be in the thousands since I've had AT&T since the original iPhone. I just don't talk that much so it seems like a huge rip off for me.
Rollover minutes expire after 12 months, FYI.
I agree. Apple will also never release an iPhone without 3G support, because "if you think Apple's going to design, manufacture, and support new hardware to address an issue that's all but guaranteed to be resolved on its own in less than two years, you've got another thing coming. I think it's funny that anyone's still thinks this will happen.
Cell phones are pretty much a disposable product --- you ain't going to keep it more than 2 years. Nothing is going to be resolved in 2 years because Verizon ain't going to plaster the whole US in that time frame.
It's not like Apple has to rewrite the entire OS when they transitioned from PowerPC to Intel. Every single cell phone on the planet is based on an ARM chip architecture. It's just writing one little wireless driver for the iphone OS --- and Apple doesn't even have to write that driver because chipset manufacturers will gladly write it for you for free (in order to sell you extra chipsets).
The added cost ain't that much --- chipset manufacturers will write the driver for you for free, Qualcomm ain't charging an arm and a leg (all the T-Mobile and AT&T Android phones have Qualcomm chipsets inside).
Therefore the only question is whether Apple will accept going from 50% gross profit margin down to say 45% --- that's going to happen when you no longer have an exclusivity deal with AT&T (i.e. Apple sells a single iphone model to both AT&T and T-Mobile). Then whether Apple will accept Verizon's hardballed negotiation of dropping it down another 5% --- that's the price of getting America's largest carrier to sell the iphone (instead of T-Mobile the smallest carrier). Then whether Apple will accept dropping another 5% in profit margin because Apple has to design, manufacture and inventory a CDMA iphone. That's still getting a 35% margins for Apple when Nokia is getting something like 12-14%.
And what has the free market done for roaming charges? Roaming charges are for most people a rare enough event that people are not price-sensitive to them.
If one could choose a different provider for roaming purposes, there would be a lot more competition. Or if SIM-locks would be illegal, you at least could get a local SIM card. Providers could still recoup their subsidies by two-year contracts with high baseline charges.
But the free market would never outlaw SIM locks.
Free market has done a lot reducing roaming charges to the point where they pretty much don't effect 90% of cell phone users. I take it you didn't have a cell phone in the late 80's? I remember when I bought my first cell phone, it was from Aerial because at the time they were they only ones which significantly covered the areas of Florida and Pennsylvania I lived/visited AND I didn't have to pay roaming charges when I was traveling across state.
Without tethering, I can do that at an airport renting movies or buying the previous night?s TV Shows for a trip.
Or by one posting session to AppleInsider...
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. When the exclusivity ends on AT&T, you will see the prices go up for the iPhone plans. Verizon isn't cheaper, and you will see "competition" make AT&T stay just under Verizon for their pricing plans, although it will be higher than they are now.
The reason, as far as I can tell, is AT&T is probably low balling their data plans to keep their subscribers. They could/should actually charge more for the data. Verizon's "lowering" of their data plans came with a steep reduction in data allowance. The carriers have no real competition, they just collaborate on pricing, much like their wired counterparts.
I don't know what businesses you've worked in but competition in the long run makes things cheaper 99% of the time. In any business I've worked in we have never been able to raise our prices because there are more companies doing what we are doing. We have been able to charge more because we were BETTER than our competition, but that is an increase in service not just a price hike "just because".
Thus proving the Verizon iPhone is coming, not that I know what Verizon is.
It's descended from one of the AT&T companies that were forced to split up in 1984.