Apple had a plant in Fountain, Colorado that they sold in 1996. All work was transferred to SCI at the same facility for three more years.
Apple plant in Elk Grove, California made G4s and G5s until April 2004.
Seems to be a little know fact for many. As far as I know Apple still operates in the buildings in Sacramento (Apple Store). Apple manufacturing people might have moved on to other companies. But we have many contract manufacturers in Silicon Valley.
I'm actually pretty sure that manufacturing will come back to the U.S. It might still take a few years but it is only a question of time. There are multiple factors that are driving this movement. Labor for sure is on top of the list: as soon as labor costs overseas come within 30% of US wages it makes sense to pull back for companies. When I saw last year Chinese companies outsourcing to Vietnam, the clock stated ticking for me. Other factors are high people overhead costs for these "overseas" projects, transportation costs, rising risks of unrest in those countries (people there now have learned that a production interruption can cause ripples around the globe...), and the use of advanced robotics.
But every part will cost more if you'd like to move the manufactures back to the USA. Every chip, case, screen, even wires will be priced higher.
And you keep in your mind that it'll increase enviromental contamination
Yes, but if the USA were to enforce "fair trade" instead of suicidal "free trade," then wages in the USA would also rise. Economically, the USA could return to the 1950's. By the way, has anyone noticed that the "free trade" deals between the USA and other countries are always one-sided.
That's a noble thought but, would you also be willing to pay 3-4 times what you pay now for Apple products? Because that is exactly what would happen to their pricing and any company's pricing if they had to pay US minimum wage and pay health benefits and provide a retirement plan and have safe working conditions where employees weren't exposed to lethal amounts of hexane. I mean, why do you think EVERYTHING in your house is made in China?
Ignorance is BLISS. How about some simple math. Why is the stock market rising when unemployment is going up. Keep sending your money overseas for instant gratification and condemn the future. Regardless of the price of a domestic product the money circulates in the country increasing quality of life in the long run. ONLY big business loses!!!
Having been to this industrial park in Suzhou, it would be hard to mount an organized rally there. The area is secluded (a giant industrial park) and requires motorized transport to get around. It's not a place where spontaneous events can happen without a lot of planning beforehand.
Yes, but if the USA were to enforce "fair trade" instead of suicidal "free trade," then wages in the USA would also rise. Economically, the USA could return to the 1950's.
Wages would rise?? You do realize how much wages have multiplied since the 1950s, right? Did a police officer make $60,000-$100,000+ in the 1950s? Could he buy a new television each week with his earnings?
Of course not. Living standards and wages have improved greatly since the 1950s. If you want to live like the the USA in the 1950s, you can go experience life in Mexico. It's very charming and you will have a great time.
You have no idea how international manufacturing works. You actually think the $10 cost (you know; the $10 you pulled out of your orifice) to assemble the iPhone, as it assembled today, is the same cost it would be if parts were all boxed and shipped to U.S., transported to factories assembled, packaged, loaded back on planes, and then sent back to China, Europe, etc?
Wages would rise?? You do realize how much wages have multiplied since the 1950s, right? Did a police officer make $60,000-$100,000+ in the 1950s? Could he buy a new television each week with his earnings?
Of course not. Living standards and wages have improved greatly since the 1950s. If you want to live like the the USA in the 1950s, you can go experience life in Mexico. It's very charming and you will have a great time.
A police officer might not have been able to afford a "new television each week with his earnings" in the 1950's, but he probably could have afforded to pay his mortgage payments on a decent house, have comprehensive health Insurance for not only himself, but his entire family, and have a tidy pension when he retired. He could also better afford to send his kids to college - especially an in-state one and not go bankrupt.
My father was the sole breadwinner for my entire family of 5 children. We all had health insurance, and lived in a modest new home. We weren't rich by any means - but we had plenty to eat, decent cloths, and we were able to take a 3 week family vacation every year.
Now in 2010, many can indeed afford to buy cheap, foreign produced electronics like TV's, or iPhone with a weeks pay. But where the cost of discretionary consumer goods have plummeted, the cost of the very structural things that my father, and many like him could afford in the 50's, have become almost untenable for most Americans in 2010 - such as buying a house, or having health insurance, or sending your kids to college.
What "Reaganomics" did successfully accomplish was to accelerate the dismantling of the American middle class that emerged post WWII. Now it takes two, or three family members working full time, earning less than they did 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation), just to make ends meet. Many on this board may be doing just fine (owning mucho AAPL shares and such), but the "let them eat hexane" sentiment expressed openly here on AI, and generally among the upper 5-10% of Americans will eventually be your undoing.
Those Chinese factory workers rebelling are another 'canary in the coal mine' event to what is happening all over the developing world in response to the increasing voracious, brutal and metastasizing "supply side" economic global corporatism that demands more and more profit, with less and less accountability, compensation and consideration to those who are at the bottom of their "supply".
Apple - in this case - is no different than every other major corporation, by trying maximizing their bottom line all cost. And as long as this economic 'squeeze' on labor and the environment is done mostly out of site - in a poorer area, or in a far away land like China, the true, total cost of that new, sparkly iPhone, or Tablet Monsieur Jobs will hold up next week to oohs and ahhs, will continue to be 'shifted' from the top few percent of the world's economic "winners" to the unfortunate "losers" who are increasingly "disposable" not only as cheap compliant labor, but as human being as well.
A police officer might not have been able to afford a "new television each week with his earnings" in the 1950's, but he probably could have afforded to pay his mortgage payments on a decent house, have comprehensive health Insurance for not only himself, but his entire family, and have a tidy pension when he retired. He could also better afford to send his kids to college - especially an in-state one and not go bankrupt.
My father was the sole breadwinner for my entire family of 5 children. We all had health insurance, and lived in a modest new home. We weren't rich by any means - but we had plenty to eat, decent cloths, and we were able to take a 3 week family vacation every year.
Now in 2010, many can indeed afford to buy cheap, foreign produced electronics like TV's, or iPhone with a weeks pay. But where the cost of discretionary consumer goods have plummeted, the cost of the very structural things that my father, and many like him could afford in the 50's, have become almost untenable for most Americans in 2010 - such as buying a house, or having health insurance, or sending your kids to college.
What "Reaganomics" did successfully accomplish was to accelerate the dismantling of the American middle class that emerged post WWII. Now it takes two, or three family members working full time, earning less than they did 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation), just to make ends meet. Many on this board may be doing just fine (owning mucho AAPL shares and such), but the "let them eat hexane" sentiment expressed openly here on AI, and generally among the upper 5-10% of Americans will eventually be your undoing.
Those Chinese factory workers rebelling are another 'canary in the coal mine' event to what is happening all over the developing world in response to the increasing voracious, brutal and metastasizing "supply side" economic global corporatism that demands more and more profit, with less and less accountability, compensation and consideration to those who are at the bottom of their "supply".
Apple - in this case - is no different than every other major corporation, by trying maximizing their bottom line all cost. And as long as this economic 'squeeze' on labor and the environment is done mostly out of site - in a poorer area, or in a far away land like China, the true, total cost of that new, sparkly iPhone, or Tablet Monsieur Jobs will hold up next week to oohs and ahhs, will continue to be 'shifted' from the top few percent of the world's economic "winners" to the unfortunate "losers" who are increasingly "disposable" not only as cheap compliant labor, but as human being as well.
Thinking different my a**.
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was....
Thank you. After reading all of these comments, I was hoping that someone would have posted something like this, otherwise I was going to be rather shocked at the general attitude of not only members here, but those who subscribe to the notion that companies as big as apple aren't solely looking out for their bottom line -- certainly not the welfare of their workers. They come out with more and more flashy new products that, hey, you don't need! And it's all to make more money and expand business, regardless of the environmental impact, workers health, etc...
Apple and all of these other companies are the same. The same tired system of a pyramid structure to business, and... well, different topic for a different time, but yes, "Think Different" my a** indeed.
If you don't have a job, then I'd say your standard of living is pretty high given that you own a computer and can afford internet access.
I understand we are in the midst of a recession, and I was certainly not trying to disparage anyone. But the fact is, on average, the U.S. has a very high standard of living compared to most developing nations and is on par with the top industrialized nations.
A police officer might not have been able to afford a "new television each week with his earnings" in the 1950's, but he probably could have afforded to pay his mortgage payments on a decent house, have comprehensive health Insurance for not only himself, but his entire family, and have a tidy pension when he retired. He could also better afford to send his kids to college - especially an in-state one and not go bankrupt.
My father was the sole breadwinner for my entire family of 5 children.
Well, that is an eloquent post, but it still could happen in Mexico today. Life really isn't that bad down there. But, they are poorer than we are. We live in bigger houses, etc.
Not saying life is easy. I'm not rich. But, it is a distortion -- and it's dangerous -- to start playing God and saying capitalism is over, throwing out the baby with the bathwater, based on urban legends and myths. Ultimately, today's media-educated sheeple (not saying this is you! naturally) will bleat around saying America in 2010 is so very weak. Excuse me, America started out very weak and never was as dominant, wealthy and comfortable as it is today. Speaking of housing, it's really quite affordable these days.
The health insurance problem is totally real, I totally agree, but it's not endemic to the American success story. We can outsource our health care to Cuba and Thailand, and we would have an even more successful and comfortable country. We have serious political problems, but not money problems. We are the reigning high score holder in the money department.
If you don't have a job, then I'd say your standard of living is pretty high given that you own a computer and can afford internet access.
I understand we are in the midst of a recession, and I was certainly not trying to disparage anyone. But the fact is, on average, the U.S. has a very high standard of living compared to most developing nations and is on par with the top industrialized nations.
I have a job, but a lot of Americans don't. The US used to have the highest standard of living anywhere. Now it's on par with many industrialized nations. Part of this is because American industry has become less competitive. High wages is part of it, but a high cost of doing business is another.
Environmental regulation, high wages and work safety all have their benefits, but don't for a moment believe that they don't have their downsides. And Americans do trade off a lot of competitive edge.
Comments
Apple had a plant in Fountain, Colorado that they sold in 1996. All work was transferred to SCI at the same facility for three more years.
Apple plant in Elk Grove, California made G4s and G5s until April 2004.
Seems to be a little know fact for many. As far as I know Apple still operates in the buildings in Sacramento (Apple Store). Apple manufacturing people might have moved on to other companies. But we have many contract manufacturers in Silicon Valley.
I'm actually pretty sure that manufacturing will come back to the U.S. It might still take a few years but it is only a question of time. There are multiple factors that are driving this movement. Labor for sure is on top of the list: as soon as labor costs overseas come within 30% of US wages it makes sense to pull back for companies. When I saw last year Chinese companies outsourcing to Vietnam, the clock stated ticking for me. Other factors are high people overhead costs for these "overseas" projects, transportation costs, rising risks of unrest in those countries (people there now have learned that a production interruption can cause ripples around the globe...), and the use of advanced robotics.
We will see - I'm sure rooting for it.
But every part will cost more if you'd like to move the manufactures back to the USA. Every chip, case, screen, even wires will be priced higher.
And you keep in your mind that it'll increase enviromental contamination
Yes, but if the USA were to enforce "fair trade" instead of suicidal "free trade," then wages in the USA would also rise. Economically, the USA could return to the 1950's. By the way, has anyone noticed that the "free trade" deals between the USA and other countries are always one-sided.
http://economyincrisis.org/
How hard is it to recycle electronics. Is there a way to manufacture electronics so that they would be easy to recycle. AppleInsider, your thoughts?
That's a noble thought but, would you also be willing to pay 3-4 times what you pay now for Apple products? Because that is exactly what would happen to their pricing and any company's pricing if they had to pay US minimum wage and pay health benefits and provide a retirement plan and have safe working conditions where employees weren't exposed to lethal amounts of hexane. I mean, why do you think EVERYTHING in your house is made in China?
Ignorance is BLISS. How about some simple math. Why is the stock market rising when unemployment is going up. Keep sending your money overseas for instant gratification and condemn the future. Regardless of the price of a domestic product the money circulates in the country increasing quality of life in the long run. ONLY big business loses!!!
Yes, but if the USA were to enforce "fair trade" instead of suicidal "free trade," then wages in the USA would also rise. Economically, the USA could return to the 1950's.
Wages would rise?? You do realize how much wages have multiplied since the 1950s, right? Did a police officer make $60,000-$100,000+ in the 1950s? Could he buy a new television each week with his earnings?
Of course not. Living standards and wages have improved greatly since the 1950s. If you want to live like the the USA in the 1950s, you can go experience life in Mexico. It's very charming and you will have a great time.
Wow. And which orifice did you pull $10 out of?
You have no idea how international manufacturing works. You actually think the $10 cost (you know; the $10 you pulled out of your orifice) to assemble the iPhone, as it assembled today, is the same cost it would be if parts were all boxed and shipped to U.S., transported to factories assembled, packaged, loaded back on planes, and then sent back to China, Europe, etc?
(yeah, $10) Brilliant.
Don't iSupply say the assembly cost is around $7?
Wages would rise?? You do realize how much wages have multiplied since the 1950s, right? Did a police officer make $60,000-$100,000+ in the 1950s? Could he buy a new television each week with his earnings?
Of course not. Living standards and wages have improved greatly since the 1950s. If you want to live like the the USA in the 1950s, you can go experience life in Mexico. It's very charming and you will have a great time.
A police officer might not have been able to afford a "new television each week with his earnings" in the 1950's, but he probably could have afforded to pay his mortgage payments on a decent house, have comprehensive health Insurance for not only himself, but his entire family, and have a tidy pension when he retired. He could also better afford to send his kids to college - especially an in-state one and not go bankrupt.
My father was the sole breadwinner for my entire family of 5 children. We all had health insurance, and lived in a modest new home. We weren't rich by any means - but we had plenty to eat, decent cloths, and we were able to take a 3 week family vacation every year.
Now in 2010, many can indeed afford to buy cheap, foreign produced electronics like TV's, or iPhone with a weeks pay. But where the cost of discretionary consumer goods have plummeted, the cost of the very structural things that my father, and many like him could afford in the 50's, have become almost untenable for most Americans in 2010 - such as buying a house, or having health insurance, or sending your kids to college.
What "Reaganomics" did successfully accomplish was to accelerate the dismantling of the American middle class that emerged post WWII. Now it takes two, or three family members working full time, earning less than they did 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation), just to make ends meet. Many on this board may be doing just fine (owning mucho AAPL shares and such), but the "let them eat hexane" sentiment expressed openly here on AI, and generally among the upper 5-10% of Americans will eventually be your undoing.
Those Chinese factory workers rebelling are another 'canary in the coal mine' event to what is happening all over the developing world in response to the increasing voracious, brutal and metastasizing "supply side" economic global corporatism that demands more and more profit, with less and less accountability, compensation and consideration to those who are at the bottom of their "supply".
Apple - in this case - is no different than every other major corporation, by trying maximizing their bottom line all cost. And as long as this economic 'squeeze' on labor and the environment is done mostly out of site - in a poorer area, or in a far away land like China, the true, total cost of that new, sparkly iPhone, or Tablet Monsieur Jobs will hold up next week to oohs and ahhs, will continue to be 'shifted' from the top few percent of the world's economic "winners" to the unfortunate "losers" who are increasingly "disposable" not only as cheap compliant labor, but as human being as well.
Thinking different my a**.
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was....
A police officer might not have been able to afford a "new television each week with his earnings" in the 1950's, but he probably could have afforded to pay his mortgage payments on a decent house, have comprehensive health Insurance for not only himself, but his entire family, and have a tidy pension when he retired. He could also better afford to send his kids to college - especially an in-state one and not go bankrupt.
My father was the sole breadwinner for my entire family of 5 children. We all had health insurance, and lived in a modest new home. We weren't rich by any means - but we had plenty to eat, decent cloths, and we were able to take a 3 week family vacation every year.
Now in 2010, many can indeed afford to buy cheap, foreign produced electronics like TV's, or iPhone with a weeks pay. But where the cost of discretionary consumer goods have plummeted, the cost of the very structural things that my father, and many like him could afford in the 50's, have become almost untenable for most Americans in 2010 - such as buying a house, or having health insurance, or sending your kids to college.
What "Reaganomics" did successfully accomplish was to accelerate the dismantling of the American middle class that emerged post WWII. Now it takes two, or three family members working full time, earning less than they did 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation), just to make ends meet. Many on this board may be doing just fine (owning mucho AAPL shares and such), but the "let them eat hexane" sentiment expressed openly here on AI, and generally among the upper 5-10% of Americans will eventually be your undoing.
Those Chinese factory workers rebelling are another 'canary in the coal mine' event to what is happening all over the developing world in response to the increasing voracious, brutal and metastasizing "supply side" economic global corporatism that demands more and more profit, with less and less accountability, compensation and consideration to those who are at the bottom of their "supply".
Apple - in this case - is no different than every other major corporation, by trying maximizing their bottom line all cost. And as long as this economic 'squeeze' on labor and the environment is done mostly out of site - in a poorer area, or in a far away land like China, the true, total cost of that new, sparkly iPhone, or Tablet Monsieur Jobs will hold up next week to oohs and ahhs, will continue to be 'shifted' from the top few percent of the world's economic "winners" to the unfortunate "losers" who are increasingly "disposable" not only as cheap compliant labor, but as human being as well.
Thinking different my a**.
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was....
Thank you. After reading all of these comments, I was hoping that someone would have posted something like this, otherwise I was going to be rather shocked at the general attitude of not only members here, but those who subscribe to the notion that companies as big as apple aren't solely looking out for their bottom line -- certainly not the welfare of their workers. They come out with more and more flashy new products that, hey, you don't need! And it's all to make more money and expand business, regardless of the environmental impact, workers health, etc...
Apple and all of these other companies are the same. The same tired system of a pyramid structure to business, and... well, different topic for a different time, but yes, "Think Different" my a** indeed.
Spoken like someone who has a job.
And a high standard of living.
If you don't have a job, then I'd say your standard of living is pretty high given that you own a computer and can afford internet access.
I understand we are in the midst of a recession, and I was certainly not trying to disparage anyone. But the fact is, on average, the U.S. has a very high standard of living compared to most developing nations and is on par with the top industrialized nations.
A police officer might not have been able to afford a "new television each week with his earnings" in the 1950's, but he probably could have afforded to pay his mortgage payments on a decent house, have comprehensive health Insurance for not only himself, but his entire family, and have a tidy pension when he retired. He could also better afford to send his kids to college - especially an in-state one and not go bankrupt.
My father was the sole breadwinner for my entire family of 5 children.
Well, that is an eloquent post, but it still could happen in Mexico today. Life really isn't that bad down there. But, they are poorer than we are. We live in bigger houses, etc.
Not saying life is easy. I'm not rich. But, it is a distortion -- and it's dangerous -- to start playing God and saying capitalism is over, throwing out the baby with the bathwater, based on urban legends and myths. Ultimately, today's media-educated sheeple (not saying this is you! naturally) will bleat around saying America in 2010 is so very weak. Excuse me, America started out very weak and never was as dominant, wealthy and comfortable as it is today. Speaking of housing, it's really quite affordable these days.
The health insurance problem is totally real, I totally agree, but it's not endemic to the American success story. We can outsource our health care to Cuba and Thailand, and we would have an even more successful and comfortable country. We have serious political problems, but not money problems. We are the reigning high score holder in the money department.
If you don't have a job, then I'd say your standard of living is pretty high given that you own a computer and can afford internet access.
I understand we are in the midst of a recession, and I was certainly not trying to disparage anyone. But the fact is, on average, the U.S. has a very high standard of living compared to most developing nations and is on par with the top industrialized nations.
I have a job, but a lot of Americans don't. The US used to have the highest standard of living anywhere. Now it's on par with many industrialized nations. Part of this is because American industry has become less competitive. High wages is part of it, but a high cost of doing business is another.
Environmental regulation, high wages and work safety all have their benefits, but don't for a moment believe that they don't have their downsides. And Americans do trade off a lot of competitive edge.