It's not. Not my opinion. I'll explain way it's terrible. Tracking: Lame ass terrible tracking compared to decent mice. Though to be fair that's more of an OS X problem, but it further demonstrates Apple do not understand the mouse, even if they introduced it to the masses.
You should not have to explain right click to anyone, ever. And I don't mean explaining why it exists or what it does, but how to click it. Apple call this mouse: "the world's first multi touch mouse". If it has MT then they should have allowed the user to right click without the need to lift their index finger. Another fundamental flaw.
The Magic Mouse is a simple demonstration of how clueless Apple can actually be sometimes. They think the mouse is "clever", but it's actually stupid. They make the mouse this way because 1: they are over-thinking the mouse, over engineering, and 2: for "looks".
Apple understands software--for the most part--and they make the best keyboards in the industry. But Apple simply do not get what a mouse should be, and the fact that it should be designed for the human hand. Not some tiny-baby-flat-index-lifting-over-explaining-lame-ass-tracking-alien-hand.
Funny post.
But it's basically just your opinion as you say, and most wouldn't agree.
I think everyone would agree that Apple has made some bad mice and that they have a different idea of what a mouse should be than a lot of mouse users, but that doesn't mean the Magic Mouse is a bad product.
There are valid design reasons for having a mouse that can be either a one button or two button mouse, and valid design reasons for not having the second button enabled as a default. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't make it a bad idea. Apple doesn't just do this stuff on a whim, they do a lot of testing.
You say it's over-designed "for looks," but other than being a different shape than you personally want, you don't explain how exactly. You say the tracking is bad, but it's measurably better than all Apple's previous mice and in every review I've read is particularly praised for it's accuracy.
I'm not saying your wrong, but it's pretty clear that your hatred for the mouse is colouring your opinion of it's design features.
I've hated most of Apple's mice, but the Mighty Mouse was a good mouse except for the pain of cleaning that stupid ball which quickly became uselessly clogged. As far as I can see, the Magic Mouse is an excellent replacement. It does everything the Mighty Mouse did, but has ten times the accuracy, and no longer has a problem with the ball clogging.
I think the Mighty Mouse is almost the perfect, basic, mouse. Simple clicking and scrolling is all the majority of folks want and the Magic Mouse delivers those things perfectly IMO.
... I suggest that the key innovation in the iPad will be multi-touch back navigation, in particular "back-typing." ... Thumb typing is slow and awkward at best. Back-typing could solve the input problem, and completely change the character and usefulness of a tablet. ...
No offence, but I have to comment since two people already think this is a great idea. It's so totally, not.
To suggest that thumb-typing is "awkward," but that "back-typing" with fingers you can't even see, on a (presumably) divided, invisible keyboard on the back of the device is just ridiculous.
Divided keyboards, despite being ergonomically better for you as well as faster to type on once trained, have yet to capture anything but the tiniest sliver of the market. They basically only appeal to RSI sufferers. And those are the ones with the physical keys that you can actually see in front of you.
People also generally have trouble with touch typing in the first place, and the vast majority of even fast typer's use a two finger method or look at the keys, or both. Most people use the iPhone's virtual keyboard incorrectly already, in that they need to look at the keys, and they generally use only one hand and one finger or even put the iPhone down and type on it as if it was a Barbie typewriter.
No way in a thousand million years is touch typing, on an invisible keyboard, that's divided in half and rotated by 90 degrees on the back of the tablet ever going to take off. Can you imagine how long it would be to explain to someone how to even begin to use such a thing?
I?m lost. Why wouldn?t a capacitance stylus not work as well as the capacitance in your fingers?
Interesting point. I was surprised the other day to realize that the iPhone 3Gs could recognize my typing, selecting and other gestures through my gloved hand. I was wearing "thin" golf gloves at the time, as I use them sometimes while driving. I say surprised, as on previous models and software versions, that wasn't possible. At least for me.
I've hated most of Apple's mice, but the Mighty Mouse was a good mouse except for the pain of cleaning that stupid ball which quickly became uselessly clogged.
Yeah i'd agree with that.
For me the Magic Mouse is superior to the one its replaced. Having never used a Magic Mouse before i now have one courtesy of my new iMac.
No sooner was the iMac up and running i was happily working away, at a much faster pace i might add. It just felt so intuitive. Maybe because i also use the latest Macbook Pro with touch track that the Magic Mouse just worked for me.
On saying that our IT manager, who's a PC, spotted it and found it intuitive to use as well. Each to their own i guess.
stylus is a must .. the germs alone will make all the UPS guys cringe
I understand what you are saying, but don't the UPS folks need to hand you the stylus to sign to begin with? Germs on screen = germs on stylus. Not to mention that it's a lot easier to wipe off the stylus with a germ-killing towelette, than it is to do the same on your tablet and risk damage.
No offence, but I have to comment since two people already think this is a great idea. It's so totally, not.
To suggest that thumb-typing is "awkward," but that "back-typing" with fingers you can't even see, on a (presumably) divided, invisible keyboard on the back of the device is just ridiculous.
Divided keyboards, despite being ergonomically better for you as well as faster to type on once trained, have yet to capture anything but the tiniest sliver of the market. They basically only appeal to RSI sufferers. And those are the ones with the physical keys that you can actually see in front of you.
People also generally have trouble with touch typing in the first place, and the vast majority of even fast typer's use a two finger method or look at the keys, or both. Most people use the iPhone's virtual keyboard incorrectly already, in that they need to look at the keys, and they generally use only one hand and one finger or even put the iPhone down and type on it as if it was a Barbie typewriter.
No way in a thousand million years is touch typing, on an invisible keyboard, that's divided in half and rotated by 90 degrees on the back of the tablet ever going to take off. Can you imagine how long it would be to explain to someone how to even begin to use such a thing?
I think there will be a back-panel touchpad, but I still think that thumb typing on the front will be used.
However, it could be easier than you think to type on the back panel. Theoretically, if your hands on the backside and you choose the keyboard input the front of the panel could show a representation of your hands and digits as you type making the ability to type fast and accurate possible.
I think this tech would be complex and I still hold to the likelihood of a curved keyboard your thumbs can travel to with ease while holding the device, but I don?t think we can count it out altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob
Interesting point. I was surprised the other day to realize that the iPhone 3Gs could recognize my typing, selecting and other gestures through my gloved hand. I was wearing "thin" golf gloves at the time, as I use them sometimes while driving. I say surprised, as on previous models and software versions, that wasn't possible. At least for me.
It works with at least one pair of disposable nitrile gloves on. Not sure about 2 pair or latex, though. Someone want to give it a go. I ask because this tablet may find some uses in the medical field.
Imagine if you are using the tablet to draw on and your primary PC monitor to view the overall picture? I think this could work very well. I also think you would get used to using our finger to draw on if you chose to do that. Though it would probably be easier for most people to just use a pen stylus as we are used to doing. We are creatures of habit.
Now I understand why many of my "artsy" friends are so excited about the assumed release of the tablet. I had not though of it as an input device on steroids. Also, given that the low-end side of Wacom starts out around $350-$400, the assumed fact that the tablet would be more than a one trick pony would be huge.
And that, folks, is what I love about Apple. The engineering is so damn good that it allows the rest of us to take products into areas that Apple itself may or may not have even thought of.
Now I understand why many of my "artsy" friends are so excited about the assumed release of the tablet. I had not though of it as an input device on steroids. Also, given that the low-end side of Wacom starts out around $350-$400, the assumed fact that the tablet would be more than a one trick pony would be huge.
And that, folks, is what I love about Apple. The engineering is so damn good that it allows the rest of us to take products into areas that Apple itself may or may not have even thought of.
Is it Wednesday yet?
Exactly! It's shocking that no one else has thought of this. But like Apple and the iPod.. they may be the only ones that can accomplish this because they make their own software and hardware. You know Cintiq and Wacom wish they could incorporate Apple's OS and operating system into their devices seamlessly. Same with Axiotron and the Modbook.
The only weird thing is that the Axiotron president(ex Apple engineer I believe) said he isn't worried about the Apple tablet impacting his sales. Does he know something we don't that makes him certain it won't be used in this fashion or posturing or just hopeful?
Actually, playing around with that gesture, I'm suddenly convinced that Apple's tablet won't have a stylus, and will rely on the thumb/finger pinch thing to do stylus-like duties.
If that gesture is supposed to work anything like a "wacom" i don't think it'll work. Sure you get a neat gesture and get rid of the "annoying" stylus but the you still won't have pressure/ angle or velocity sensitivity. it'll be every bit awkward as using your finger to draw. Terrible idea.
Exactly! It's shocking that no one else has thought of this. But like Apple and the iPod.. they may be the only ones that can accomplish this because they make their own software and hardware. You know Cintiq and Wacom wish they could incorporate Apple's OS and operating system into their devices seamlessly. Same with Axiotron and the Modbook.
The only weird thing is that the Axiotron president(ex Apple engineer I believe) said he isn't worried about the Apple tablet impacting his sales. Does he know something we don't that makes him certain it won't be used in this fashion or posturing or just hopeful?
Yeah he does... the tablet will use the iphone OS and not Mac OSX.
Yeah he does... the tablet will use the iphone OS and not Mac OSX.
Yes, but if the tablet could still be used as an input device/drawing pad/display even without OSX then it would still kill his business. I doubt most artists would care if it was portable or not. I doubt most peripheral drawing pads will have the power and capability Apple's tablet will have. They are just displays with touch sensors.
I think the Magic Mouse is almost the perfect, basic, mouse. Simple clicking and scrolling is all the majority of folks want and the Magic Mouse delivers those things perfectly IMO.
Then you've obviously never used a really good mouse. There are plenty of mice that click and scroll much better (more comfortably and more intuitively) than the magic mouse for a fraction of the cost. I was surprised to see Apple make such a big deal out of another lame mouse. Once I tried to use it, my expectations were only confirmed. It is the worst mouse Apple has ever made. I would pick up the beige one button bastard before I ever use a magic mouse. I even like the mighty mouse better, especially for post production work, but then again my hands aren't a greasy as as others so i didn't really experience the clogged ball issues. I could never use the magic mouse professionally. It simply wouldn't work as it's ergonomics are all wrong and you lose "buttons" with awkward silly gestures. The mouse is prone slipping while performing gestures blah blah blah... terrible mouse for pro and the pro apps.
I don't think that is a good rationale though because we can't change the shape or physical attributes of our fingers for different tasks in the real world. In the digital world we can though.
If, in the real world, we could use out finger and create a precise line of any pattern or shape or level of precision we would have no need for different tools.
So since our finger are (I assume) in the real world, then how would you propose to change the shape. Sure you can change how the software/ computer sees your fingers but that does nothing to change the way the human "perceives their finger. it would still feel like you were awkwardly drawing with you're finger, no pressure sensitivity, no angle, no velocity = an unusable device and I would rather not see a stylus if it can't work like a wacom. A stylus is useless on the iphone so Apple didn't make one, the tablet would have to work very differently.
Like I said earlier a tablet/ slate without a stylus would be an Oxymoron and I don't think Apple is really that into ironic devices, although that magic mouse has me thinking otherwise.
Yes, but if the tablet could still be used as an input device/drawing pad/display even without OSX then it would still kill his business. I doubt most artists would care if it was portable or not. I doubt most peripheral drawing pads will have the power and capability Apple's tablet will have. They are just displays with touch sensors.
Not necessarily. There are still going to be people that need a much more powerful Intel Core machine, perhaps with 8GB RAM or up to a 500GB HDD, or the use of Mac OS X apps. I figure Axitron?s sales are very low as it is because the desire for this type of tablet simply isn?t a desire nor need for most people, hence the complete failure of Windows being shoehorned into a tablet for the last decade.
It?s possible that only a few will find that an ARM-based tablet possibly with just 1GB RAM, a comparatively small amount of storage, running a version of OS X (OS X ≠ Mac OS X) specifically for the tablet, likely titled Tablet OS X, and designed as an accessory device to a PC, not a PC replacement will not be sufficient for the consumers that require Axitotron?s tablet.
So since our finger are (I assume) in the real world, then how would you propose to change the shape. Sure you can change how the software/ computer sees your fingers but that does nothing to change the way the human "perceives their finger. it would still feel like you were awkwardly drawing with you're finger, no pressure sensitivity, no angle, no velocity = an unusable device and I would rather not see a stylus if it can't work like a wacom. A stylus is useless on the iphone so Apple didn't make one, the tablet would have to work very differently.
Like I said earlier a tablet/ slate without a stylus would be an Oxymoron and I don't think Apple is really that into ironic devices, although that magic mouse has me thinking otherwise.
Your finger has more sensitivity touching the drawing surface than you do through the pen you are holding touching the drawing surface.
And when I said you can change your finger I meant that you can precisely control how the tablet reacts to your finger. When finger painting you have no control over line weight etc. etc. which is why it's so sloppy.
But I think it's just another example of how we have been conditioned to think using something non-intuitive is more intuitive than truly intuitive tools and methods. Like how many people think using a keyboard and mouse is superior to drawing and touching as an input method. They have been conditioned to believe this but IMO it's wrong.
But it's basically just your opinion as you say, and most wouldn't agree.
I think everyone would agree that Apple has made some bad mice and that they have a different idea of what a mouse should be than a lot of mouse users, but that doesn't mean the Magic Mouse is a bad product.
There are valid design reasons for having a mouse that can be either a one button or two button mouse, and valid design reasons for not having the second button enabled as a default. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't make it a bad idea. Apple doesn't just do this stuff on a whim, they do a lot of testing.
You say it's over-designed "for looks," but other than being a different shape than you personally want, you don't explain how exactly. You say the tracking is bad, but it's measurably better than all Apple's previous mice and in every review I've read is particularly praised for it's accuracy.
I'm not saying your wrong, but it's pretty clear that your hatred for the mouse is colouring your opinion of it's design features.
I've hated most of Apple's mice, but the Mighty Mouse was a good mouse except for the pain of cleaning that stupid ball which quickly became uselessly clogged. As far as I can see, the Magic Mouse is an excellent replacement. It does everything the Mighty Mouse did, but has ten times the accuracy, and no longer has a problem with the ball clogging.
I think the Mighty Mouse is almost the perfect, basic, mouse. Simple clicking and scrolling is all the majority of folks want and the Magic Mouse delivers those things perfectly IMO.
Agree wholeheartedly. I liked it so much that I bought a second one for my office computer.
No offence, but I have to comment since two people already think this is a great idea. It's so totally, not.
To suggest that thumb-typing is "awkward," but that "back-typing" with fingers you can't even see, on a (presumably) divided, invisible keyboard on the back of the device is just ridiculous...
When I think about back-typing, I think of it as a completely new form of typing. Using a standard keyboard requires a lot of visual and/or tactile feedback because it depends on the position of your fingers as they choose between 30-50 keys. But if the device is smart enough, back-typing would not depend on the position of your fingers, but would require nothing more than tapping in place.
Here's one possibility: 8 single fingers gives you 8 different symbols, but combinations of 8 fingers gives you as many as 256 different symbols! It would be fairly easy to come up with a set of taps that corresponds to all the standard keys. (This style of input is often called chording.) Thumbs will operate things like space, shift, delete and return. Especially in the learning process, a visual display will be important. I have no clear ideas about what this display would look like, but it could be rather small and out of the way since you don't have to touch it directly. In fact, it's mainly just reminding you which finger tap combinations activate which symbols. The main point is that the tactile feedback of individual keys just isn't necessary in this system. Indeed, once the system is mastered you could even turn off the display.
Yes, this would require learning. (And I don't doubt that a standard touch keyboard will also be available for those who don't want to master this skill.) But the thing is to see the potential of this form of typing. It would allow me to sit in my favorite chair and type! I could lay in bed and type! I could pace the house and type! Laptops are really very awkward unless you have a table in front of you, and even then they are imperfect. To hold a screen in your hands and type on it as fast as you can tap your fingers–that would be stunning!
Easy, rapid text input is an essential key to making a universally useful tablet. Let's face it, language is the medium of communication with each other and with computers. Inputting language into a device as easily and rapidly as possible is essential for most tasks. It's the one element that is so far missing from all tablet-style devices. If the iPad does not solve this problem it will still be an excellent all-purpose media-consuming device for print, video, music and gaming. But, if it does solve the text input problem it will replace laptops. Indeed, it could be the biggest computing revolution since the mouse.
I understand what you are saying, but don't the UPS folks need to hand you the stylus to sign to begin with? Germs on screen = germs on stylus. Not to mention that it's a lot easier to wipe off the stylus with a germ-killing towelette, than it is to do the same on your tablet and risk damage.
Your finger has more sensitivity touching the drawing surface than you do through the pen you are holding touching the drawing surface.
And when I said you can change your finger I meant that you can precisely control how the tablet reacts to your finger. When finger painting you have no control over line weight etc. etc. which is why it's so sloppy.
But I think it's just another example of how we have been conditioned to think using something non-intuitive is more intuitive than truly intuitive tools and methods. Like how many people think using a keyboard and mouse is superior to drawing and touching as an input method. They have been conditioned to believe this but IMO it's wrong.
My finger is sensitive sure but what about the surface? The problem is still that the tip of my finger is a blunt instrument compared to a stylus (pen, pencil etc.). How would you're method account for pressure changes on the fly without having to change a "brush" setting in a control panel? Not to mention how would you see what you're drawing? How am I going to see a 6 pixel brush under my finger? Shifting the cursor point "off" from beneath the tip of the finger is hardly intuitive and in fact doesn't work well at all.
One of the problems of the touch interface is that you're fingers are covering the screen. A problem also evident with games in the Iphone and IPT.
What you're talking about doesn't seem that much different that what we already have on the iphone with a drawing Ap. Not a product for drawing.
I think people are going to expect to draw on this thing and it might put some off if it didn't. Again, a tablet or a slate without a stylus is kind of an oxymoron in my opinion and you can't really draw without an input device.
(Although if it works as a virtual input device for pro aps and "remote desktop" for desktops and/ or devices like ATV, in addition to the features already in an IPT then it would still be enough for me and probably most people.)
Do you really believe that brushes are inferior to our fingers just because we're talking about a "digital" brush? Many of the real world rules apply to the software world. Despite developers best efforts it seems quite impossible to recreate the experience of using a tool using touch and software only.
However, I may eat my hat if Apple came out with some way of drawing without touching the screen and "pressure sensitivity" measured by the distance of you're finger from the screen (or other method of similar kind). That would be different and I think that could work very well, as it addresses the issues above.
We've seen some patents in this vein but it seems the general consensus that technology isn't ready yet. Are you of a different opinion? Maybe you're like the rest of us and hoping for the best. LOL they have been conceptualizing on this thing for years and years.
It'll be great, but I don't think Apple is ready to give us "everything" in the first shot.
Love this crazy old thing and I love how it's got about an 17 degree tilt...
Comments
It's not. Not my opinion. I'll explain way it's terrible. Tracking: Lame ass terrible tracking compared to decent mice. Though to be fair that's more of an OS X problem, but it further demonstrates Apple do not understand the mouse, even if they introduced it to the masses.
You should not have to explain right click to anyone, ever. And I don't mean explaining why it exists or what it does, but how to click it. Apple call this mouse: "the world's first multi touch mouse". If it has MT then they should have allowed the user to right click without the need to lift their index finger. Another fundamental flaw.
The Magic Mouse is a simple demonstration of how clueless Apple can actually be sometimes. They think the mouse is "clever", but it's actually stupid. They make the mouse this way because 1: they are over-thinking the mouse, over engineering, and 2: for "looks".
Apple understands software--for the most part--and they make the best keyboards in the industry. But Apple simply do not get what a mouse should be, and the fact that it should be designed for the human hand. Not some tiny-baby-flat-index-lifting-over-explaining-lame-ass-tracking-alien-hand.
Funny post.
But it's basically just your opinion as you say, and most wouldn't agree.
I think everyone would agree that Apple has made some bad mice and that they have a different idea of what a mouse should be than a lot of mouse users, but that doesn't mean the Magic Mouse is a bad product.
There are valid design reasons for having a mouse that can be either a one button or two button mouse, and valid design reasons for not having the second button enabled as a default. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't make it a bad idea. Apple doesn't just do this stuff on a whim, they do a lot of testing.
You say it's over-designed "for looks," but other than being a different shape than you personally want, you don't explain how exactly. You say the tracking is bad, but it's measurably better than all Apple's previous mice and in every review I've read is particularly praised for it's accuracy.
I'm not saying your wrong, but it's pretty clear that your hatred for the mouse is colouring your opinion of it's design features.
I've hated most of Apple's mice, but the Mighty Mouse was a good mouse except for the pain of cleaning that stupid ball which quickly became uselessly clogged. As far as I can see, the Magic Mouse is an excellent replacement. It does everything the Mighty Mouse did, but has ten times the accuracy, and no longer has a problem with the ball clogging.
I think the Mighty Mouse is almost the perfect, basic, mouse. Simple clicking and scrolling is all the majority of folks want and the Magic Mouse delivers those things perfectly IMO.
... I suggest that the key innovation in the iPad will be multi-touch back navigation, in particular "back-typing." ... Thumb typing is slow and awkward at best. Back-typing could solve the input problem, and completely change the character and usefulness of a tablet. ...
No offence, but I have to comment since two people already think this is a great idea. It's so totally, not.
To suggest that thumb-typing is "awkward," but that "back-typing" with fingers you can't even see, on a (presumably) divided, invisible keyboard on the back of the device is just ridiculous.
Divided keyboards, despite being ergonomically better for you as well as faster to type on once trained, have yet to capture anything but the tiniest sliver of the market. They basically only appeal to RSI sufferers. And those are the ones with the physical keys that you can actually see in front of you.
People also generally have trouble with touch typing in the first place, and the vast majority of even fast typer's use a two finger method or look at the keys, or both. Most people use the iPhone's virtual keyboard incorrectly already, in that they need to look at the keys, and they generally use only one hand and one finger or even put the iPhone down and type on it as if it was a Barbie typewriter.
No way in a thousand million years is touch typing, on an invisible keyboard, that's divided in half and rotated by 90 degrees on the back of the tablet ever going to take off. Can you imagine how long it would be to explain to someone how to even begin to use such a thing?
I?m lost. Why wouldn?t a capacitance stylus not work as well as the capacitance in your fingers?
Interesting point. I was surprised the other day to realize that the iPhone 3Gs could recognize my typing, selecting and other gestures through my gloved hand. I was wearing "thin" golf gloves at the time, as I use them sometimes while driving. I say surprised, as on previous models and software versions, that wasn't possible. At least for me.
I've hated most of Apple's mice, but the Mighty Mouse was a good mouse except for the pain of cleaning that stupid ball which quickly became uselessly clogged.
Yeah i'd agree with that.
For me the Magic Mouse is superior to the one its replaced. Having never used a Magic Mouse before i now have one courtesy of my new iMac.
No sooner was the iMac up and running i was happily working away, at a much faster pace i might add. It just felt so intuitive. Maybe because i also use the latest Macbook Pro with touch track that the Magic Mouse just worked for me.
On saying that our IT manager, who's a PC, spotted it and found it intuitive to use as well. Each to their own i guess.
stylus is a must .. the germs alone will make all the UPS guys cringe
I understand what you are saying, but don't the UPS folks need to hand you the stylus to sign to begin with? Germs on screen = germs on stylus. Not to mention that it's a lot easier to wipe off the stylus with a germ-killing towelette, than it is to do the same on your tablet and risk damage.
No offence, but I have to comment since two people already think this is a great idea. It's so totally, not.
To suggest that thumb-typing is "awkward," but that "back-typing" with fingers you can't even see, on a (presumably) divided, invisible keyboard on the back of the device is just ridiculous.
Divided keyboards, despite being ergonomically better for you as well as faster to type on once trained, have yet to capture anything but the tiniest sliver of the market. They basically only appeal to RSI sufferers. And those are the ones with the physical keys that you can actually see in front of you.
People also generally have trouble with touch typing in the first place, and the vast majority of even fast typer's use a two finger method or look at the keys, or both. Most people use the iPhone's virtual keyboard incorrectly already, in that they need to look at the keys, and they generally use only one hand and one finger or even put the iPhone down and type on it as if it was a Barbie typewriter.
No way in a thousand million years is touch typing, on an invisible keyboard, that's divided in half and rotated by 90 degrees on the back of the tablet ever going to take off. Can you imagine how long it would be to explain to someone how to even begin to use such a thing?
I think there will be a back-panel touchpad, but I still think that thumb typing on the front will be used.
However, it could be easier than you think to type on the back panel. Theoretically, if your hands on the backside and you choose the keyboard input the front of the panel could show a representation of your hands and digits as you type making the ability to type fast and accurate possible.
I think this tech would be complex and I still hold to the likelihood of a curved keyboard your thumbs can travel to with ease while holding the device, but I don?t think we can count it out altogether.
Interesting point. I was surprised the other day to realize that the iPhone 3Gs could recognize my typing, selecting and other gestures through my gloved hand. I was wearing "thin" golf gloves at the time, as I use them sometimes while driving. I say surprised, as on previous models and software versions, that wasn't possible. At least for me.
It works with at least one pair of disposable nitrile gloves on. Not sure about 2 pair or latex, though. Someone want to give it a go. I ask because this tablet may find some uses in the medical field.
Imagine if you are using the tablet to draw on and your primary PC monitor to view the overall picture? I think this could work very well. I also think you would get used to using our finger to draw on if you chose to do that. Though it would probably be easier for most people to just use a pen stylus as we are used to doing. We are creatures of habit.
Now I understand why many of my "artsy" friends are so excited about the assumed release of the tablet. I had not though of it as an input device on steroids. Also, given that the low-end side of Wacom starts out around $350-$400, the assumed fact that the tablet would be more than a one trick pony would be huge.
And that, folks, is what I love about Apple. The engineering is so damn good that it allows the rest of us to take products into areas that Apple itself may or may not have even thought of.
Is it Wednesday yet?
Now I understand why many of my "artsy" friends are so excited about the assumed release of the tablet. I had not though of it as an input device on steroids. Also, given that the low-end side of Wacom starts out around $350-$400, the assumed fact that the tablet would be more than a one trick pony would be huge.
And that, folks, is what I love about Apple. The engineering is so damn good that it allows the rest of us to take products into areas that Apple itself may or may not have even thought of.
Is it Wednesday yet?
Exactly!
The only weird thing is that the Axiotron president(ex Apple engineer I believe) said he isn't worried about the Apple tablet impacting his sales. Does he know something we don't that makes him certain it won't be used in this fashion or posturing or just hopeful?
Actually, playing around with that gesture, I'm suddenly convinced that Apple's tablet won't have a stylus, and will rely on the thumb/finger pinch thing to do stylus-like duties.
If that gesture is supposed to work anything like a "wacom" i don't think it'll work. Sure you get a neat gesture and get rid of the "annoying" stylus but the you still won't have pressure/ angle or velocity sensitivity. it'll be every bit awkward as using your finger to draw. Terrible idea.
Exactly!
The only weird thing is that the Axiotron president(ex Apple engineer I believe) said he isn't worried about the Apple tablet impacting his sales. Does he know something we don't that makes him certain it won't be used in this fashion or posturing or just hopeful?
Yeah he does... the tablet will use the iphone OS and not Mac OSX.
Yeah he does... the tablet will use the iphone OS and not Mac OSX.
Yes, but if the tablet could still be used as an input device/drawing pad/display even without OSX then it would still kill his business. I doubt most artists would care if it was portable or not. I doubt most peripheral drawing pads will have the power and capability Apple's tablet will have. They are just displays with touch sensors.
I think the Magic Mouse is almost the perfect, basic, mouse. Simple clicking and scrolling is all the majority of folks want and the Magic Mouse delivers those things perfectly IMO.
Then you've obviously never used a really good mouse. There are plenty of mice that click and scroll much better (more comfortably and more intuitively) than the magic mouse for a fraction of the cost. I was surprised to see Apple make such a big deal out of another lame mouse. Once I tried to use it, my expectations were only confirmed. It is the worst mouse Apple has ever made. I would pick up the beige one button bastard before I ever use a magic mouse. I even like the mighty mouse better, especially for post production work, but then again my hands aren't a greasy as as others so i didn't really experience the clogged ball issues. I could never use the magic mouse professionally. It simply wouldn't work as it's ergonomics are all wrong and you lose "buttons" with awkward silly gestures. The mouse is prone slipping while performing gestures blah blah blah... terrible mouse for pro and the pro apps.
I don't think that is a good rationale though because we can't change the shape or physical attributes of our fingers for different tasks in the real world. In the digital world we can though.
If, in the real world, we could use out finger and create a precise line of any pattern or shape or level of precision we would have no need for different tools.
So since our finger are (I assume) in the real world, then how would you propose to change the shape. Sure you can change how the software/ computer sees your fingers but that does nothing to change the way the human "perceives their finger. it would still feel like you were awkwardly drawing with you're finger, no pressure sensitivity, no angle, no velocity = an unusable device and I would rather not see a stylus if it can't work like a wacom. A stylus is useless on the iphone so Apple didn't make one, the tablet would have to work very differently.
Like I said earlier a tablet/ slate without a stylus would be an Oxymoron and I don't think Apple is really that into ironic devices, although that magic mouse has me thinking otherwise.
Yes, but if the tablet could still be used as an input device/drawing pad/display even without OSX then it would still kill his business. I doubt most artists would care if it was portable or not. I doubt most peripheral drawing pads will have the power and capability Apple's tablet will have. They are just displays with touch sensors.
Not necessarily. There are still going to be people that need a much more powerful Intel Core machine, perhaps with 8GB RAM or up to a 500GB HDD, or the use of Mac OS X apps. I figure Axitron?s sales are very low as it is because the desire for this type of tablet simply isn?t a desire nor need for most people, hence the complete failure of Windows being shoehorned into a tablet for the last decade.
It?s possible that only a few will find that an ARM-based tablet possibly with just 1GB RAM, a comparatively small amount of storage, running a version of OS X (OS X ≠ Mac OS X) specifically for the tablet, likely titled Tablet OS X, and designed as an accessory device to a PC, not a PC replacement will not be sufficient for the consumers that require Axitotron?s tablet.
So since our finger are (I assume) in the real world, then how would you propose to change the shape. Sure you can change how the software/ computer sees your fingers but that does nothing to change the way the human "perceives their finger. it would still feel like you were awkwardly drawing with you're finger, no pressure sensitivity, no angle, no velocity = an unusable device and I would rather not see a stylus if it can't work like a wacom. A stylus is useless on the iphone so Apple didn't make one, the tablet would have to work very differently.
Like I said earlier a tablet/ slate without a stylus would be an Oxymoron and I don't think Apple is really that into ironic devices, although that magic mouse has me thinking otherwise.
Your finger has more sensitivity touching the drawing surface than you do through the pen you are holding touching the drawing surface.
And when I said you can change your finger I meant that you can precisely control how the tablet reacts to your finger. When finger painting you have no control over line weight etc. etc. which is why it's so sloppy.
But I think it's just another example of how we have been conditioned to think using something non-intuitive is more intuitive than truly intuitive tools and methods. Like how many people think using a keyboard and mouse is superior to drawing and touching as an input method. They have been conditioned to believe this but IMO it's wrong.
Funny post.
But it's basically just your opinion as you say, and most wouldn't agree.
I think everyone would agree that Apple has made some bad mice and that they have a different idea of what a mouse should be than a lot of mouse users, but that doesn't mean the Magic Mouse is a bad product.
There are valid design reasons for having a mouse that can be either a one button or two button mouse, and valid design reasons for not having the second button enabled as a default. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't make it a bad idea. Apple doesn't just do this stuff on a whim, they do a lot of testing.
You say it's over-designed "for looks," but other than being a different shape than you personally want, you don't explain how exactly. You say the tracking is bad, but it's measurably better than all Apple's previous mice and in every review I've read is particularly praised for it's accuracy.
I'm not saying your wrong, but it's pretty clear that your hatred for the mouse is colouring your opinion of it's design features.
I've hated most of Apple's mice, but the Mighty Mouse was a good mouse except for the pain of cleaning that stupid ball which quickly became uselessly clogged. As far as I can see, the Magic Mouse is an excellent replacement. It does everything the Mighty Mouse did, but has ten times the accuracy, and no longer has a problem with the ball clogging.
I think the Mighty Mouse is almost the perfect, basic, mouse. Simple clicking and scrolling is all the majority of folks want and the Magic Mouse delivers those things perfectly IMO.
Agree wholeheartedly. I liked it so much that I bought a second one for my office computer.
No offence, but I have to comment since two people already think this is a great idea. It's so totally, not.
To suggest that thumb-typing is "awkward," but that "back-typing" with fingers you can't even see, on a (presumably) divided, invisible keyboard on the back of the device is just ridiculous...
When I think about back-typing, I think of it as a completely new form of typing. Using a standard keyboard requires a lot of visual and/or tactile feedback because it depends on the position of your fingers as they choose between 30-50 keys. But if the device is smart enough, back-typing would not depend on the position of your fingers, but would require nothing more than tapping in place.
Here's one possibility: 8 single fingers gives you 8 different symbols, but combinations of 8 fingers gives you as many as 256 different symbols! It would be fairly easy to come up with a set of taps that corresponds to all the standard keys. (This style of input is often called chording.) Thumbs will operate things like space, shift, delete and return. Especially in the learning process, a visual display will be important. I have no clear ideas about what this display would look like, but it could be rather small and out of the way since you don't have to touch it directly. In fact, it's mainly just reminding you which finger tap combinations activate which symbols. The main point is that the tactile feedback of individual keys just isn't necessary in this system. Indeed, once the system is mastered you could even turn off the display.
Yes, this would require learning. (And I don't doubt that a standard touch keyboard will also be available for those who don't want to master this skill.) But the thing is to see the potential of this form of typing. It would allow me to sit in my favorite chair and type! I could lay in bed and type! I could pace the house and type! Laptops are really very awkward unless you have a table in front of you, and even then they are imperfect. To hold a screen in your hands and type on it as fast as you can tap your fingers–that would be stunning!
Easy, rapid text input is an essential key to making a universally useful tablet. Let's face it, language is the medium of communication with each other and with computers. Inputting language into a device as easily and rapidly as possible is essential for most tasks. It's the one element that is so far missing from all tablet-style devices. If the iPad does not solve this problem it will still be an excellent all-purpose media-consuming device for print, video, music and gaming. But, if it does solve the text input problem it will replace laptops. Indeed, it could be the biggest computing revolution since the mouse.
I understand what you are saying, but don't the UPS folks need to hand you the stylus to sign to begin with? Germs on screen = germs on stylus. Not to mention that it's a lot easier to wipe off the stylus with a germ-killing towelette, than it is to do the same on your tablet and risk damage.
true
i stand corected
the jets are on gotta go !!
GO JETS!!
j16 ind9
Your finger has more sensitivity touching the drawing surface than you do through the pen you are holding touching the drawing surface.
And when I said you can change your finger I meant that you can precisely control how the tablet reacts to your finger. When finger painting you have no control over line weight etc. etc. which is why it's so sloppy.
But I think it's just another example of how we have been conditioned to think using something non-intuitive is more intuitive than truly intuitive tools and methods. Like how many people think using a keyboard and mouse is superior to drawing and touching as an input method. They have been conditioned to believe this but IMO it's wrong.
My finger is sensitive sure but what about the surface? The problem is still that the tip of my finger is a blunt instrument compared to a stylus (pen, pencil etc.). How would you're method account for pressure changes on the fly without having to change a "brush" setting in a control panel? Not to mention how would you see what you're drawing? How am I going to see a 6 pixel brush under my finger? Shifting the cursor point "off" from beneath the tip of the finger is hardly intuitive and in fact doesn't work well at all.
One of the problems of the touch interface is that you're fingers are covering the screen. A problem also evident with games in the Iphone and IPT.
What you're talking about doesn't seem that much different that what we already have on the iphone with a drawing Ap. Not a product for drawing.
I think people are going to expect to draw on this thing and it might put some off if it didn't. Again, a tablet or a slate without a stylus is kind of an oxymoron in my opinion and you can't really draw without an input device.
(Although if it works as a virtual input device for pro aps and "remote desktop" for desktops and/ or devices like ATV, in addition to the features already in an IPT then it would still be enough for me and probably most people.)
Do you really believe that brushes are inferior to our fingers just because we're talking about a "digital" brush? Many of the real world rules apply to the software world. Despite developers best efforts it seems quite impossible to recreate the experience of using a tool using touch and software only.
However, I may eat my hat if Apple came out with some way of drawing without touching the screen and "pressure sensitivity" measured by the distance of you're finger from the screen (or other method of similar kind). That would be different and I think that could work very well, as it addresses the issues above.
We've seen some patents in this vein but it seems the general consensus that technology isn't ready yet. Are you of a different opinion? Maybe you're like the rest of us and hoping for the best. LOL they have been conceptualizing on this thing for years and years.
It'll be great, but I don't think Apple is ready to give us "everything" in the first shot.
Love this crazy old thing and I love how it's got about an 17 degree tilt...
link to the wired article...
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/...le-tablet-1983
It's a baby unicorn.....no corn yet.
Don't you mean horn? Ooops!