I suspect SJ is right as well. I just grow weary sometimes of what seems like intentionally crippled devices just so they can sell it to you again a few years later with the omitted feature enabled.
So now instead of a failure, because it doesn't fit your narrow definition of what you want it's crippled?
Really? By not having a feature that less than 20% of purchasers would ever use? And I think that's being VERY generous...
Yes, a future version of the iPad will probably support display port (I wouldn't ever expect HDMI from Apple) - but more from the evolution of things and VGA finally dying off than any artificial product stratification that's being implied in these threads
So now instead of a failure, because it doesn't fit your narrow definition of what you want it's crippled?
Really? By not having a feature that less than 20% of purchasers would ever use? And I think that's being VERY generous...
Yes, a future version of the iPad will probably support display port (I wouldn't ever expect HDMI from Apple) - but more from the evolution of things and VGA finally dying off than any artificial product stratification that's being implied in these threads
First if all, I never specifically mentioned the iPad. I said, "I just grow weary sometimes of what seems like intentionally crippled devices". Second, you have no idea what my view is so how you can call it narrow is beyond me. I personally couldn't care less about tethering an iPad to my TV. IMO, that's not really what's it's for. I've already signed up for notification as to when I can pre-order one and have no problem dropping $500, $600 or even $700 for one.
AI sure loves those absurdly complex timeline graphs, don't they? I mean, they'll cook one of them up for anything!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
I think they know that very (VERY) few people tether portable devices to TV's. It just does't make sense.
It's clear Apple has a clear user focus in mind. I can't recall an Apple product announcement that didn't upset someone for not including support specifically for them.
This is the first Apple device with a Dock Connector that can load and play on screen 720p videos, so maybe they'll get 720p video out before it launches. It might even be there now, just not officially supported. Apple has a history of having capabilities not listed on their spec sheets.
So why is Apple reverting back in time to VGA output on the iPad? For starters, most video projectors support the iPad's XGA resolution of 1024x768 over a VGA port, while only a few support HDTV-style resolutions such as 720p (1280x720) over an HDMI or DVI port.
I agree, I've never seen a WXGA, aka 720p, presentation. All presentations are in a 4 by 3 format, so the two sizes used are XGA, 1024 x 768 and SVGA, 800 x 600. The iPad has an iWorks suite. Clearly you can make Keynotes, and it stands to reason you can present Keynotes, so XGA video out thru a VGA connector makes complete sense.
This thread raises the question, will it ever be common to connect tablet computers to things via wires? Other than charging, my bet is no. The tablet form and wires/connectors will never be a popular combination.
This isn't motivated by technological limitations, but rather by the form factor. Wired devices are more practical the more stationary they are. Connecting a wire to a laptop is somewhat troublesome but is tolerable because laptops tend to be put in on something and then used in that position for a while. Meanwhile, tablets are constantly held and shifted into different positions while sitting, standing, lying, or walking. For this reason, the cord is more troublesome than it is for desktops and laptops.
An excellent point. Ever since the iPad was announced, I've been thinking about how I'd use one for presentations. I expect to want one if for that purpose only. But even the weight of the clunky video cable by itself tends to make it hard to keep the small DLP projector I use from moving around. Setting this up is kind of like defusing a bomb. At least when the projector and laptop are happy, the setup doesn't need to be touched again. Connect the projector to an iPad, and now what?
Another question I have is whether the iPad supports ColorSync profiles. I assume not but that would be too bad, since most projectors have pretty poor color balance out of the box.
When it was clear the netbook was not gonna work and no replacement was available from our technical staff, we started brainstorming. Her husband asked whether her iPod touch couldn't run the powerpoint presentation.
I said that my guess was it wouldn't, but that the upcoming iPad would have been perfectly suited for the task.
Not sure how you think the iPad is any more suited than the iPod touch, unless you mean the woman would have to import her Powerpoint into Keynote and then run it.
You could have had the woman export her slides into a compatible format, like jpgs or pdfs, and then she could present her slides in the Photos app. If PowerPoint can export into a Quicktime file, then you could have shown it as a movie, pausing when necessary. That helps if you have animations that a static slide won't show. I know Keynote allows you to export into Quicktime, but I've forgotten if PowerPoint does.
Either way, you would also need a way to connect, so a quick trip to BestBuy would be necessary to get a Connection Kit to allow the iPod to connect to the projector.
Does the iPad allow for an extended desktop so that I'd get a presenter's screen on the iPad and my presentation on a projector?
I use Keynote at least twice a week and make extensive use of presenters notes. If the iPad merely mirrors to a projector, it won't be as useful for my purposes.
Does anyone know yet if it offers an extended desktop?
The iPad does not mirror anything. It only outputs video the app is specially designed to output, so essentially it only creates an "extended desktop." look at the keynote demo and you'll see it's showing one UI on the iPad while the actual presentation is being output via VGA. The iPad's Keynote display allows you to drive a virtual laser pointer or annotate the presentation John Madden style with your fingers while you present it.
I completely understand, and I think in 2010 it is pretty poor on Apple's part to have their worst product as the only gateway to HD output.
Many would say it's practical. Maybe it is, but the Apple TV is a failure, so iFail to see why they need to continue propping it up by crippling NEW products.
The iPad has 720p playback. It can watch YouTube HD, it can Rent/Buy HD Movies/TV Shows. Ok, that is a big step for the Apple portable....no such feature on the iPhone or iPod Touch to date...
But the iPhone has been able to output its highest capable resolution via component cable since day one.
iPad is intentionally crippled in that it outputs less than it does on the screen. It's lame, no matter how you slice it.
This is well said, especially the last two bits.
And for all the apologists for Apple and the iPad, saying its about cost and compatability its just not that simple. My laptop doesn't do VGA out and guess what? It's also more likely to be hooked up to a projector to deliver a talk than it ever is to be connected to a widescreen TV. Projectors are what laptops are meant to be connected to and yet they've evolved to modern standards. And with the iPad we hear they're going to be great for lectures, but we also know the lecturers like showing videos on TVs as well. If they roll in a TV made this century as far as I can tell its not to be able to hook up to the iPad at all.
Another issue that's inevitably going to come up if Apple fixed it so external video output is decent quality is the fact that the iPad will only play a tiny amount of video that is in circulation. Want to use the iPad to present a talk that has anything other than Quicktime video? ... not gonna happen either.
I suspect SJ is right as well. I just grow weary sometimes of what seems like intentionally crippled devices just so they can sell it to you again a few years later with the omitted feature enabled.
Here's a tip; maybe this will help you;
There is no such thing as a product without omitted features. None.
After the phenomenal success of the iPad 1.0 in 2010, Steve will allow us to purchase the new improved iPAD HD in 2011. It will sport a 16:9 screen at 1280 x 720 and have a mini-displayport driving 720p out in addition to the dock connector. Prices will be the same, but the new iPad Classic that looks like 1.0 with more memory than before will sell for 349 USD (for those still using VGA projectors and 4:3 monitors).
If you think that will happen you don't know Apple.
Releasing a device with an incompatible Dock Connector would have been a bad idea when they're trying to create new product category. It seems as though Apple is taking a price-hit on the iPad to move them, so they decided to stick with the standard iPod Dock Connector to...
A. Retain compatibility with the zillion Dock Connector compatible devices already on the market.
B. To keep costs down.
I bet that Apple would have preferred to go with a digital video interface of some sort, but why kill interoperability with how many hundreds of millions of existing devices and accessories?
Eventually, the iOS devices will get digital video out.
Good point, but: the pinout diagram of the Dock Connector here shows half a dozen lines associated with Firewire. In that firewire seems to be pretty thoroughly deprecated, I would think Apple could repurpose those connectors for digital video, with the caveat that firewire equipped iPods (of which I doubt there are still a great many in service) would not be compatible.
Unless a lot of peripherals are using the firewire data bus for some obscure reason?
Comments
After the phenomenal success of the iPad 1.0 in 2010, Steve will allow us to purchase the new improved iPAD HD in 2011. It will sport a 16:9 screen
I can safely bet you that this will never happen. 16:9 is good for one thing: Movies. The iPad is about much more than movies.
But keep waiting for it....
I suspect SJ is right as well. I just grow weary sometimes of what seems like intentionally crippled devices just so they can sell it to you again a few years later with the omitted feature enabled.
So now instead of a failure, because it doesn't fit your narrow definition of what you want it's crippled?
Really? By not having a feature that less than 20% of purchasers would ever use? And I think that's being VERY generous...
Yes, a future version of the iPad will probably support display port (I wouldn't ever expect HDMI from Apple) - but more from the evolution of things and VGA finally dying off than any artificial product stratification that's being implied in these threads
Does anyone know yet if it offers an extended desktop?
That's a great point, and we probably won't know until it ships.
Which wont do me much good when I'm in a hotel somewhere.
So now instead of a failure, because it doesn't fit your narrow definition of what you want it's crippled?
Really? By not having a feature that less than 20% of purchasers would ever use? And I think that's being VERY generous...
Yes, a future version of the iPad will probably support display port (I wouldn't ever expect HDMI from Apple) - but more from the evolution of things and VGA finally dying off than any artificial product stratification that's being implied in these threads
First if all, I never specifically mentioned the iPad. I said, "I just grow weary sometimes of what seems like intentionally crippled devices". Second, you have no idea what my view is so how you can call it narrow is beyond me. I personally couldn't care less about tethering an iPad to my TV. IMO, that's not really what's it's for. I've already signed up for notification as to when I can pre-order one and have no problem dropping $500, $600 or even $700 for one.
AI sure loves those absurdly complex timeline graphs, don't they? I mean, they'll cook one of them up for anything!
I think they know that very (VERY) few people tether portable devices to TV's. It just does't make sense.
It's clear Apple has a clear user focus in mind. I can't recall an Apple product announcement that didn't upset someone for not including support specifically for them.
This is the first Apple device with a Dock Connector that can load and play on screen 720p videos, so maybe they'll get 720p video out before it launches. It might even be there now, just not officially supported. Apple has a history of having capabilities not listed on their spec sheets.
AWhy VGA on the iPad?
So why is Apple reverting back in time to VGA output on the iPad? For starters, most video projectors support the iPad's XGA resolution of 1024x768 over a VGA port, while only a few support HDTV-style resolutions such as 720p (1280x720) over an HDMI or DVI port.
I agree, I've never seen a WXGA, aka 720p, presentation. All presentations are in a 4 by 3 format, so the two sizes used are XGA, 1024 x 768 and SVGA, 800 x 600. The iPad has an iWorks suite. Clearly you can make Keynotes, and it stands to reason you can present Keynotes, so XGA video out thru a VGA connector makes complete sense.
This thread raises the question, will it ever be common to connect tablet computers to things via wires? Other than charging, my bet is no. The tablet form and wires/connectors will never be a popular combination.
This isn't motivated by technological limitations, but rather by the form factor. Wired devices are more practical the more stationary they are. Connecting a wire to a laptop is somewhat troublesome but is tolerable because laptops tend to be put in on something and then used in that position for a while. Meanwhile, tablets are constantly held and shifted into different positions while sitting, standing, lying, or walking. For this reason, the cord is more troublesome than it is for desktops and laptops.
An excellent point. Ever since the iPad was announced, I've been thinking about how I'd use one for presentations. I expect to want one if for that purpose only. But even the weight of the clunky video cable by itself tends to make it hard to keep the small DLP projector I use from moving around. Setting this up is kind of like defusing a bomb. At least when the projector and laptop are happy, the setup doesn't need to be touched again. Connect the projector to an iPad, and now what?
Another question I have is whether the iPad supports ColorSync profiles. I assume not but that would be too bad, since most projectors have pretty poor color balance out of the box.
The article makes little sense, as it is widely reported that the iPhone 3GS is capable of 720P output...
When it was clear the netbook was not gonna work and no replacement was available from our technical staff, we started brainstorming. Her husband asked whether her iPod touch couldn't run the powerpoint presentation.
I said that my guess was it wouldn't, but that the upcoming iPad would have been perfectly suited for the task.
Not sure how you think the iPad is any more suited than the iPod touch, unless you mean the woman would have to import her Powerpoint into Keynote and then run it.
You could have had the woman export her slides into a compatible format, like jpgs or pdfs, and then she could present her slides in the Photos app. If PowerPoint can export into a Quicktime file, then you could have shown it as a movie, pausing when necessary. That helps if you have animations that a static slide won't show. I know Keynote allows you to export into Quicktime, but I've forgotten if PowerPoint does.
Either way, you would also need a way to connect, so a quick trip to BestBuy would be necessary to get a Connection Kit to allow the iPod to connect to the projector.
AI sure loves those absurdly complex timeline graphs, don't they? I mean, they'll cook one of them up for anything!
And they make a lot of mistakes on these graphs
DP supports far higher resolutions than DVI or HDMI, that's why Apple went with it for their Macs.
Wiki says that
DisplayPort's max resolution is 2560 x 1600 @ 75Hz
HDMI's max resolution is 2560 x 1600 @ 75Hz / 4096 × 2160 @ 24Hz
DVI's max resolution is 2560 x 1600 @ 60Hz
Here's my question about Keynote and the iPad--
Does the iPad allow for an extended desktop so that I'd get a presenter's screen on the iPad and my presentation on a projector?
I use Keynote at least twice a week and make extensive use of presenters notes. If the iPad merely mirrors to a projector, it won't be as useful for my purposes.
Does anyone know yet if it offers an extended desktop?
The iPad does not mirror anything. It only outputs video the app is specially designed to output, so essentially it only creates an "extended desktop." look at the keynote demo and you'll see it's showing one UI on the iPad while the actual presentation is being output via VGA. The iPad's Keynote display allows you to drive a virtual laser pointer or annotate the presentation John Madden style with your fingers while you present it.
Wiki says that
DisplayPort's max resolution is 2560 x 1600 @ 75Hz
HDMI's max resolution is 2560 x 1600 @ 75Hz / 4096 × 2160 @ 24Hz
DVI's max resolution is 2560 x 1600 @ 60Hz
Always with the lying.
DP v1.2 21.6Gbps, 3840 x 2400 @ 60Hz
... and many other features that HDMI can't compete with.
I completely understand, and I think in 2010 it is pretty poor on Apple's part to have their worst product as the only gateway to HD output.
Many would say it's practical. Maybe it is, but the Apple TV is a failure, so iFail to see why they need to continue propping it up by crippling NEW products.
The iPad has 720p playback. It can watch YouTube HD, it can Rent/Buy HD Movies/TV Shows. Ok, that is a big step for the Apple portable....no such feature on the iPhone or iPod Touch to date...
But the iPhone has been able to output its highest capable resolution via component cable since day one.
iPad is intentionally crippled in that it outputs less than it does on the screen. It's lame, no matter how you slice it.
This is well said, especially the last two bits.
And for all the apologists for Apple and the iPad, saying its about cost and compatability its just not that simple. My laptop doesn't do VGA out and guess what? It's also more likely to be hooked up to a projector to deliver a talk than it ever is to be connected to a widescreen TV. Projectors are what laptops are meant to be connected to and yet they've evolved to modern standards. And with the iPad we hear they're going to be great for lectures, but we also know the lecturers like showing videos on TVs as well. If they roll in a TV made this century as far as I can tell its not to be able to hook up to the iPad at all.
Another issue that's inevitably going to come up if Apple fixed it so external video output is decent quality is the fact that the iPad will only play a tiny amount of video that is in circulation. Want to use the iPad to present a talk that has anything other than Quicktime video? ... not gonna happen either.
I suspect SJ is right as well. I just grow weary sometimes of what seems like intentionally crippled devices just so they can sell it to you again a few years later with the omitted feature enabled.
Here's a tip; maybe this will help you;
There is no such thing as a product without omitted features. None.
After the phenomenal success of the iPad 1.0 in 2010, Steve will allow us to purchase the new improved iPAD HD in 2011. It will sport a 16:9 screen at 1280 x 720 and have a mini-displayport driving 720p out in addition to the dock connector. Prices will be the same, but the new iPad Classic that looks like 1.0 with more memory than before will sell for 349 USD (for those still using VGA projectors and 4:3 monitors).
If you think that will happen you don't know Apple.
The second iPad will have more storage.
Always with the lying.
Who is lying?
Releasing a device with an incompatible Dock Connector would have been a bad idea when they're trying to create new product category. It seems as though Apple is taking a price-hit on the iPad to move them, so they decided to stick with the standard iPod Dock Connector to...
A. Retain compatibility with the zillion Dock Connector compatible devices already on the market.
B. To keep costs down.
I bet that Apple would have preferred to go with a digital video interface of some sort, but why kill interoperability with how many hundreds of millions of existing devices and accessories?
Eventually, the iOS devices will get digital video out.
Good point, but: the pinout diagram of the Dock Connector here shows half a dozen lines associated with Firewire. In that firewire seems to be pretty thoroughly deprecated, I would think Apple could repurpose those connectors for digital video, with the caveat that firewire equipped iPods (of which I doubt there are still a great many in service) would not be compatible.
Unless a lot of peripherals are using the firewire data bus for some obscure reason?