wtf are you talking about, I never put any Apple content on an iPod.
The iPod was introduced on 2001, the itunes music store was introduced in 2003. Are you saying that between 2001 and 2003 those iPods were basically playing white noise?
I am saying that many of the negative comments that certain people are making about the Kindle could have been applied to the iPod. Not everyone needs a multi-function device. Being a single function device did not stop the iPod.
This is hilarious, Amazon is so shook (scared) it is amazing. First they buy a company that does similar tech as the ipad and now this. Apple really made them blink.
This is like Verizon and Blackberry offering free phoned with the purchase of a phone, then some in the media say how th iPhone is being outsold. Ys, easy to outsell apple when you give away free phones.
"Hey Amazon... BOO!!!!" Apple is coming and you better run. Funny stuff.
Amazon is clearly scared to death of Apple and scared to death of losing Kindle hardware sales. I guess thats why they released the software to most of the world so you don't even have to buy an Kindle.
I swear members on this forum actually think they are informed.
"Neither version requires that you own a Kindle in order to download books"
Damn they are scared to death.
Actually they are scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why would anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.
Who are they trying to run out of business? Do they have any prospect of succeeding?
There is no one else who is as big as Amazon in the ebook business, at the moment. If reports are to be believed, they have a lion's share of the market.
It therefore seems like an attempt to prevent new entrants from coming in by using pricing as a weapon.
I have no trouble at all if they want to price it at, say, marginal cost (or some cost). But pricing at zero? That does not make sense to me (unless they can show that they have carrier-type monthly fee agreements, which I doubt).
Actually they at scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.
He's conveniently only looking at the HW and OS apps while ignoring that fact that Amazon changed their pricing model to match Apple's App Store as a preventive strike before Apple officially announced the iPad and iBookstore. Everything they've done from changing rates after bullying publishers for 2 years, to stating an SDK is coming, to buying a touchscreen company, and to this giveaway for premium customers is all reactionary tactics.
I think their next move will be a Kindle price drop. a week or two before the iPad hits. Possibly even some nifty vapourware mockups in an attempt to keep buyers focused on Amazon. Par for the course.
Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods?
Interesting point...I guess whenever Apple gives stuff away, it's fine. When Amazon does it, it's "sad"
Apple does it as an annual event, not a one-time deal and they do it to get rid of old inventory to make room for new products. Also, they do it as a marketing reason, not to compete with or stop people from buying a competitors device, they already have market share. Amazon is doing as last ditch effort to grow their numbers and keep people using the Kindle. You really can't compare the two initiatives.
Console makers are not making "real" money except Nintendo. Microsoft and Sony game divisions are still a long long ways away from recouping their initial investments. I also can't think of any other industry that sells hardware at a discount in order to sell software, can you? The PC industry is based on hardware sales.
Ink Jet printer manufacturers are infamous for doing this and its about as firm a lock as one can get.
There is no one else who is as big as Amazon in the ebook business, at the moment. If reports are to be believed, they have a lion's share of the market.
It therefore seems like an attempt to prevent new entrants from coming in by using pricing as a weapon.
I have no trouble at all if they want to price it at, say, marginal cost (or some cost). But pricing at zero? That does not make sense to me (unless they can show that they have carrier-type monthly fee agreements, which I doubt).
True, up to a point -- but predatory pricing is a pretty specific concept, not just being aggressive in a market. In order to show that pricing is predatory, it has to be proven that competition in a market has been harmed, or is likely to be harmed. It has to be a sustained effort clearly designed to force a competitor out or keep one from getting in. It's a very difficult claim to prove. If it wasn't, then just about every "two for the price of one" promotion could be called predatory pricing.
I'm sure as far as Apple is concerned, they're happy to let Amazon do their worst. Apple has already signaled their intentions to be as aggressive in pricing as they need to be.
Apple does it as an annual event, not a one-time deal and they do it to get rid of old inventory to make room for new products. Also, they do it as a marketing reason, not to compete with or stop people from buying a competitors device, they already have market share. Amazon is doing as last ditch effort to grow their numbers and keep people using the Kindle. You really can't compare the two initiatives.
Amazon would be giving out the older, smaller screen kindle -- clearing out inventory so to speak.
The Kindle already is in control of the market, the iPad hasn't even been released yet.
Amazon's kindle offer would be only available to Prime subscribers, the free iPods are available to just during the back-to-school time period.
In addition, why do you guys even care what Amazon does. AI has already deemed the iPad a monster that will crush the kindle, so what does it matter what Amazon does?
In addition, why do you guys even care what Amazon does. AI has already deemed the iPad a monster that will crush the kindle, so what does it matter what Amazon does?
Likely for the same reason you are on this forum involved in the discussion. You are interested in technology and technology companies. I'm an investor in Amazon so that gives me extra reason, but I had an initial interest in them long before i invested.
...predatory pricing is a pretty specific concept...it has to be proven that competition in a market has been harmed, or is likely to be harmed...
I'm sure as far as Apple is concerned, they're happy to let Amazon do their worst. Apple has already signaled their intentions to be as aggressive in pricing as they need to be.
Remaining 35% is split between the author and publisher, net of refunds, bad debt, and taxes. (See Amazon Terms sec. 5.4.1 Royalties)
Amazon can AFFORD to give away Kindles at the distribution rates they charge. Apple OTOH can give larger royalties. Authors, authors, authors...
That is only for self-publications. Just prior to the iPad's unveiling Amazon changed their eBook charges to a 30/70 split, favouring the publishers, to match the App Store.
Yes, and if I understand it correctly, Amazon is only extending their "free Kindle" offer to their best book buyers, so it's not like they have plans to blanket the world with free product in an effort to keep Apple out of their market. Pretty clearly what they are attempting to do is get a firmer toehold in the e-book market in the face of the coming competition.
Which brings up another point. Why did Apple announce the iPad so far in advance of a shipping product? Seems they did Amazon among others a big favor, giving them a couple of months to adjust their market strategies ahead of the release. The only other time I can recall Apple doing this was with the iPhone.
Which brings up another point. Why did Apple announce the iPad so far in advance of a shipping product? Seems they did Amazon among others a big favor, giving them a couple of months to adjust their market strategies ahead of the release. The only other time I can recall Apple doing this was with the iPhone.
A few ideas...
? It's better to control unveiling than have it leak from other sources If they felt they couldn't keep it bottled it anymore. The rumours were so rampant and mirroring the pre-iPhone buzz that it was obvious it was coming.
? If they are trying to get more publishers on-board they would need to show the device's capabilities and the publishers they have signed. Recall that Jobs showed the AppleTV (as iTV) in September 2006, didn't demo it until January 2007 (before the iPhone demo) and it started shipping in March. I think this was clearly designed to get movie studios on-board by seeing a real device and gauging the public's interest.
? To get developers working on making iPad apps. The App Store is a success and has helped solidifying the iPhone's position in the market. I think this is the strongest of the reasons I've given.
Good thoughts. I tend to like the second one best myself. Apple designed the iPad to run all existing iPhone/touch software and the transition to the larger display seems to be relatively easy for developers to implement, so I think they could well have gotten along with seeding a few key developers under an NDA and letting everyone else catch up once it was released. The way they have done this is a bit risky -- the developers currently working with the new SDK are doing so blind, since they can't test their software on an actual iPad.
Actually they are scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why would anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.
Actually they are not. Clearly they could care less about the hardware as long as users still continue to buy the content through Amazon. If they were scared they would keep the Kindle software closed. In fact the only company that I know that is scared of opening their software is Apple because they know their hardware sales would drop like a rock.
Amazon is clearly scared to death of Apple and scared to death of losing Kindle hardware sales. I guess thats why they released the software to most of the world so you don't even have to buy an Kindle.
They ARE scared, and so is everyone else, whether you see it or not.
Quote:
I swear members on this forum actually think they are informed.
"Neither version requires that you own a Kindle in order to download books"
Damn they are scared to death.
Of course they are scared. They want people to buy a Kindle once they realise the benefits of e-books. No-one wants to sit at a desktop PC and read a book - Amazon want to get people a) interested, then b) buying a Kindle for on-the-go reading.
Actually they are not. Clearly they could care less about the hardware as long as users still continue to buy the content through Amazon. If they were scared they would keep the Kindle software closed. In fact the only company that I know that is scared of opening their software is Apple because they know their hardware sales would drop like a rock.
Because Apples business model makes profit from hardware sales, not software/content. And last time I checked, the Kindle used DRM'd content, which by your own definition is closed. Again you don't seem to know what you're talking about.
You really don't get this "business" thing, do you? Giving away the hardware when it's a source of profit is desperation - Amazon are desperate to keep their closed, DRM'd e-book sales afloat by giving the hardware away. Apple make profit from the hardware and so - from a profit point of view - give the content away with a tiny margin to drive sales.
Comments
wtf are you talking about, I never put any Apple content on an iPod.
The iPod was introduced on 2001, the itunes music store was introduced in 2003. Are you saying that between 2001 and 2003 those iPods were basically playing white noise?
I am saying that many of the negative comments that certain people are making about the Kindle could have been applied to the iPod. Not everyone needs a multi-function device. Being a single function device did not stop the iPod.
This is like Verizon and Blackberry offering free phoned with the purchase of a phone, then some in the media say how th iPhone is being outsold. Ys, easy to outsell apple when you give away free phones.
"Hey Amazon... BOO!!!!" Apple is coming and you better run. Funny stuff.
Amazon is clearly scared to death of Apple and scared to death of losing Kindle hardware sales. I guess thats why they released the software to most of the world so you don't even have to buy an Kindle.
I swear members on this forum actually think they are informed.
"Neither version requires that you own a Kindle in order to download books"
Damn they are scared to death.
Actually they are scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why would anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.
Who are they trying to run out of business? Do they have any prospect of succeeding?
There is no one else who is as big as Amazon in the ebook business, at the moment. If reports are to be believed, they have a lion's share of the market.
It therefore seems like an attempt to prevent new entrants from coming in by using pricing as a weapon.
I have no trouble at all if they want to price it at, say, marginal cost (or some cost). But pricing at zero? That does not make sense to me (unless they can show that they have carrier-type monthly fee agreements, which I doubt).
Actually they at scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.
He's conveniently only looking at the HW and OS apps while ignoring that fact that Amazon changed their pricing model to match Apple's App Store as a preventive strike before Apple officially announced the iPad and iBookstore. Everything they've done from changing rates after bullying publishers for 2 years, to stating an SDK is coming, to buying a touchscreen company, and to this giveaway for premium customers is all reactionary tactics.
I think their next move will be a Kindle price drop. a week or two before the iPad hits. Possibly even some nifty vapourware mockups in an attempt to keep buyers focused on Amazon. Par for the course.
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post
Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods?
Interesting point...I guess whenever Apple gives stuff away, it's fine. When Amazon does it, it's "sad"
Apple does it as an annual event, not a one-time deal and they do it to get rid of old inventory to make room for new products. Also, they do it as a marketing reason, not to compete with or stop people from buying a competitors device, they already have market share. Amazon is doing as last ditch effort to grow their numbers and keep people using the Kindle. You really can't compare the two initiatives.
Console makers are not making "real" money except Nintendo. Microsoft and Sony game divisions are still a long long ways away from recouping their initial investments. I also can't think of any other industry that sells hardware at a discount in order to sell software, can you? The PC industry is based on hardware sales.
Ink Jet printer manufacturers are infamous for doing this and its about as firm a lock as one can get.
Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods?
Clearing inventory :-D
There is no one else who is as big as Amazon in the ebook business, at the moment. If reports are to be believed, they have a lion's share of the market.
It therefore seems like an attempt to prevent new entrants from coming in by using pricing as a weapon.
I have no trouble at all if they want to price it at, say, marginal cost (or some cost). But pricing at zero? That does not make sense to me (unless they can show that they have carrier-type monthly fee agreements, which I doubt).
True, up to a point -- but predatory pricing is a pretty specific concept, not just being aggressive in a market. In order to show that pricing is predatory, it has to be proven that competition in a market has been harmed, or is likely to be harmed. It has to be a sustained effort clearly designed to force a competitor out or keep one from getting in. It's a very difficult claim to prove. If it wasn't, then just about every "two for the price of one" promotion could be called predatory pricing.
I'm sure as far as Apple is concerned, they're happy to let Amazon do their worst. Apple has already signaled their intentions to be as aggressive in pricing as they need to be.
Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods?
A miracle.
Apple does it as an annual event, not a one-time deal and they do it to get rid of old inventory to make room for new products. Also, they do it as a marketing reason, not to compete with or stop people from buying a competitors device, they already have market share. Amazon is doing as last ditch effort to grow their numbers and keep people using the Kindle. You really can't compare the two initiatives.
Amazon would be giving out the older, smaller screen kindle -- clearing out inventory so to speak.
The Kindle already is in control of the market, the iPad hasn't even been released yet.
Amazon's kindle offer would be only available to Prime subscribers, the free iPods are available to just during the back-to-school time period.
In addition, why do you guys even care what Amazon does. AI has already deemed the iPad a monster that will crush the kindle, so what does it matter what Amazon does?
In addition, why do you guys even care what Amazon does. AI has already deemed the iPad a monster that will crush the kindle, so what does it matter what Amazon does?
Likely for the same reason you are on this forum involved in the discussion. You are interested in technology and technology companies. I'm an investor in Amazon so that gives me extra reason, but I had an initial interest in them long before i invested.
...predatory pricing is a pretty specific concept...it has to be proven that competition in a market has been harmed, or is likely to be harmed...
I'm sure as far as Apple is concerned, they're happy to let Amazon do their worst. Apple has already signaled their intentions to be as aggressive in pricing as they need to be.
"Amazon.com keeps 65% of the revenue from all ebook sales."
Remaining 35% is split between the author and publisher, net of refunds, bad debt, and taxes. (See Amazon Terms sec. 5.4.1 Royalties)
Amazon can AFFORD to give away Kindles at the distribution rates they charge. Apple OTOH can give larger royalties. Authors, authors, authors...
"Amazon.com keeps 65% of the revenue from all ebook sales."
Remaining 35% is split between the author and publisher, net of refunds, bad debt, and taxes. (See Amazon Terms sec. 5.4.1 Royalties)
Amazon can AFFORD to give away Kindles at the distribution rates they charge. Apple OTOH can give larger royalties. Authors, authors, authors...
That is only for self-publications. Just prior to the iPad's unveiling Amazon changed their eBook charges to a 30/70 split, favouring the publishers, to match the App Store.
Which brings up another point. Why did Apple announce the iPad so far in advance of a shipping product? Seems they did Amazon among others a big favor, giving them a couple of months to adjust their market strategies ahead of the release. The only other time I can recall Apple doing this was with the iPhone.
Which brings up another point. Why did Apple announce the iPad so far in advance of a shipping product? Seems they did Amazon among others a big favor, giving them a couple of months to adjust their market strategies ahead of the release. The only other time I can recall Apple doing this was with the iPhone.
A few ideas...
Actually they are scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why would anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.
Actually they are not. Clearly they could care less about the hardware as long as users still continue to buy the content through Amazon. If they were scared they would keep the Kindle software closed. In fact the only company that I know that is scared of opening their software is Apple because they know their hardware sales would drop like a rock.
Amazon is clearly scared to death of Apple and scared to death of losing Kindle hardware sales. I guess thats why they released the software to most of the world so you don't even have to buy an Kindle.
They ARE scared, and so is everyone else, whether you see it or not.
I swear members on this forum actually think they are informed.
For Windows.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...cId=1000426311
Coming to the Mac
http://mashable.com/2009/10/24/kindle-mac/
"Neither version requires that you own a Kindle in order to download books"
Damn they are scared to death.
Of course they are scared. They want people to buy a Kindle once they realise the benefits of e-books. No-one wants to sit at a desktop PC and read a book - Amazon want to get people a) interested, then b) buying a Kindle for on-the-go reading.
And you call every one else clueless.
Actually they are not. Clearly they could care less about the hardware as long as users still continue to buy the content through Amazon. If they were scared they would keep the Kindle software closed. In fact the only company that I know that is scared of opening their software is Apple because they know their hardware sales would drop like a rock.
Because Apples business model makes profit from hardware sales, not software/content. And last time I checked, the Kindle used DRM'd content, which by your own definition is closed. Again you don't seem to know what you're talking about.
You really don't get this "business" thing, do you? Giving away the hardware when it's a source of profit is desperation - Amazon are desperate to keep their closed, DRM'd e-book sales afloat by giving the hardware away. Apple make profit from the hardware and so - from a profit point of view - give the content away with a tiny margin to drive sales.