First and third links are a proof of concept, like so many proof of concepts of OS X virus.
The karspersky link says nothing about ACTUAL malware and it talks about iPhone also.
MemoryUp virus link is erroneus, it wasn't a virus or malware according to Google.
So, despite the years that WinMo has been in the market there is only ONE case of a trojan (not a virus) which can't spread and a proof of concept of a virus that doesn't work in the wild.
But there is irony of tech savvy people on this forum who eagerly hail even the smallest improvement in the iPhone who then say it doesn't need something as useful as multitasking.
None of us are saying we don't want multitasking. We are saying we understand why Apple has not implemented it. We'd prefer they figure out a better way to do it instead of just slapping it on there just to fulfill a feature check list.
Quote:
Two years ago these people were saying Apple didn't need to allow third party apps, now they celebrate the app store as the defining feature.
I don't remember anyone saying the iPhone did not need third party apps. In fact Apple announced that their would be third party apps two months after the launch of the original iPhone. So we knew it was coming nearly a year before the App Store was launched.
It is a limitation of the networks, as was made clear in the chart.
Yes, and Daniel doesn't know that in a GSM network you can connect with EDGE and GPRS if UMTS/HSDPA doesn't have coverage and you CAN'T do voice and data at the same time. Or, does know it?
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone is not multicore and that the graphics part it's done by a GPU.
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone can't do voice and data simultaneously while in EDGE or GPRS. It's not a problem of a terminal, but of the network.
If the author had done his homework he would know that runnig more than one application at the same time doesn't implies that you can install viruses or malware.
If you had done yours, you would know that most of what you just said is wrong, or misdirected.
Show where he explicitly says that the phone cpu currently has two cores.
If you understood the way networks work, and the point of having 3G, you would know, as everyone else does, that it's the ENTIRE network that allows this, and that you can't split off parts.
If you also read the article properly, and bothered to read about multiprocessing and the other facets involved, you would know that it's the WAY it's implemented that allows this. It's likely that Apple is trying to implement a better way.
First and third links are a proof of concept, like so many proof of concepts of OS X virus.
The karspersky link says nothing about ACTUAL malware and it talks about iPhone also.
MemoryUp virus link is erroneus, it wasn't a virus or malware according to Google.
So, despite the years that WinMo has been in the market there is only ONE case of a trojan (not a virus) which can't spread and a proof of concept of a virus that doesn't work in the wild.
That's not really true. Besides that have been other virus's, I just don't have to time to look for it as I have to leave in a few minutes. There has been malware as well. Android has already had its first scare in that area.
Yes, and Daniel doesn't know that in a GSM network you can connect with EDGE and GPRS if UMTS/HSDPA doesn't have coverage and you CAN'T do voice and data at the same time. Or, does know it?
I'm sure he knows a lot more than you do about it. But CDMA can't do this at all yet. Why don't you focus on that major limitation?
As far as your soccer mom reference goes, it's not really fair. If you think you're a superior human being because you know a little computerize, that's great for you! But most of the world doesn't care for it, or your claiming that superiority. If you really want a geek phone, buy the Droid. It's made for boys like you, with the flaming meteoroids, and other manly references and all. The iPhone is very popular because people can use it without having to go to geeks like you think you are, and asking how to use it.
Thank you Mel. You just made it much easier to help me decide who to add to my ignore list.
So why is the information included in a comparison of operating systems? The information is irrelevant.
He was showing, as the title "What is Multitasking?" the different forms of what could be considered multitasking, and that it's available to some phone and network systems, but not to others (yet). Not all multitasking to the user is only through the phone hardware alone, some depends on which networks are being used. Therefor, its a valid comparison.
Only the last one was an Android article and it's wrong. In the first place it wasn't a virus. It was an app that was *supposedly* gobbling up memory. Secondly, the app was doing nothing of the sort. On the Android, like any other Java system, memory is managed by the JVM. Finally, to access specific APIs, you need to ask for permission in the manifest. When installing an app, the list of access required is displayed to the user.
Which is not to say that you can't have a phishing app - just like on the iPhone. If you are going to enter your bank credentials or your Google account information, you had better be sure where you got the app from - and that applies for the Android, iPhone, Desktop or web.
Forget iPad, my Powerbook is now exposing what appears to be poor quality of the OSX scheduler and process priority schema.
I open my laptop from sleep and have to wait 30+ secs while it fumbles about in the background due to things like Mail, before it manages to schedule my login pane. PATHETIC.
My login pane should come on immediately. No arguments. Mail can wait. Login should be boosted to operate above the main background and even regular foreground priorities.
Window tab flipping should operate above any activity within ANY tab.
Window minimising, moving or expanding should operate at a higher priority than regular process.
This does NOT happen. Safari churns on some abstract link , DNS, Flash or whathaveyou, sometimes not using much CPU but can you close the tab? No. Can you close the window? No.
We have lost (thank god) co-operative multitasking but boy do we appear to have "co-operative windowing" which, frankly, does not help us that much when what we want to do is exit a pane, tab or window and the process is not "interested".
The window should not be under control of the application, it should be under control of the window manager. I do not want to have to ask my applications to minimise, I wish to TELL them.
All I know is, OSX lacks basic functionality that I took for granted with the "big iron" OpenVMS I used to use.
If you had done yours, you would know that most of what you just said is wrong, or misdirected.
Show where he explicitly says that the phone cpu currently has two cores.
Quote:
which allows different tasks to run concurrently on different processor cores.
For example, when playing back video, the iPhone can spin off the heavy lifting involved with decoding H.264 to a specialized video processor core while the [b]main processor core continues to handle other tasks, such as listening for updates and maintaining the user interface
I've never read about cores if it is monocore. In every tech article when there is a CPU and a GPU they say processor, not core.
But as he is trying with the term multitasking, perhaps he wants to redefine how people names processors and GPU+CPU couples
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
If you understood the way networks work, and the point of having 3G, you would know, as everyone else does, that it's the ENTIRE network that allows this, and that you can't split off parts.
I understand a little about mobile networks and if in an article about multitasking he wants to talk about that (I don't konw why) he has to be precise and in a GSM network you don't have all the time simultaneous voice and data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
If you also read the article properly, and bothered to read about multiprocessing and the other facets involved, you would know that it's the WAY it's implemented that allows this. It's likely that Apple is trying to implement a better way.
To be fair, you can make your own tables with your own data and post them in response, if you believe he is so inaccurate."
That wouldn't be fair at all, you're just responding like that because you want to jump to his defense no matter what. Normal fanboy reaction. I pride myself for never failing to criticize Apple, which there are numerous opportunities for--he wouldn't dare. I never said "inaccurate", I said biased. And he's meant to be the journalist, so he shouldn't be at all biased. It's quite common for a regular user here to call him biased, it happens all the time. His articles are always biased, everyone knows this. He did a history of tablet computing, in which he takes his usual sudonym of "Prince" and forgot to talk tablet computers.
You really feel that running more than one app at a time is extremely valuable on a 3 inch screen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
To be quite honest...
I find Apple's mobile OS to be little more than an app/widget launcher rather than (what many have come to know as) an actual operating system, so multi-tasking on such a 'modal' platform really isn't all that compelling given the associated limitations as dictated by its core mission, which is to run one app/widget at a time.
To paint a complete picture of the situation with PalmOS, note that despite the fact that there is no official means for 3rd party apps to multitask, there are individual exceptions.
For example, any PalmOS based smartphone still has to have a process running in the background to detect the event of an incoming phone call, just the same as would be the case in the iPhone.
Most of the PalmOS 5 handhelds have included MP3 players from various authorized 3rd parties such as RealPlayer. Those MP3 player apps had special hooks that allowed preemptive background playback of music.
Way back when US Robotics was designing the operating system for the first Palm Pilot, they chose to license a kernel from a 3rd party rather than write their own, and then customize their own user environment on top of it. The kernel they chose was technically capable of multitasking, but the license they negotiated for its use specifically prohibited exposing the multitasking API for use by applications. This kernel was used throughout Palm's time using 68K CPUs.
Palm OS 5, released at the same time as Palm switched from 68K to ARM, was designed with a seemingly exclusive focus on maintaining backward compatibility with older software where multitasking didn't exist. The backwards compatibility was so complete that the emulated 68K environment was the default state of the system. Whenever any application launched on Palm OS 5, it always started out life as an emulated 68K app; any ARM-enhanced portions were small subroutines which were accessed by "escaping" out of the 68K emulation layer.
O so Apple will only let ITS software run in the background because otherwise we could have viruses and heaven forbid the Mac OS get a virus! I'm sorry but thats a weak way to defend against viruses and its a big way of hendering development. As a information security analyst you look at balance between useability and security. In this case Apple has severely hendered useability for security. That would be like Microsoft making it where you can't install anything but Microsoft products on Windows and thats what makes it Apple :P
Can anyone point me to any Windows Mobile or Android virus or I can talk about another FUD, erroneous and bashing article of our beloved Daniel Eran Dilger?
This article could have been written in the 90's period. There is no excuse not to offer Multi Tasking for All Apps.
Mobile phone chip sets are more than capable of running multiple tasks (other than decided by Apple).
User experience is the big one. The battery life and speed of response of the open applications are plenty sufficient reasons. That said I suspect we'll see more multi-tasking this year. If it's controlled in a sensible and pragmatic manner we all stand to win. When I had a touch-screen WinMo phone it crashed all the time and I'd often find that apps weren't exiting properly and so tying up resources even when not in use. It was a truly awful user experience and even as someone with a degree in electronics it forced me back to a simple candy bar phone for two and a half years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donlphi
But how are you going to truly run Skype at the same time as another app. You only have room on your screen for one thing at a time.
In the same why that Phone and Nike+ handle multi-tasking on the current iPhone - in a thin strip along the top. Some apps, alarms etc won't need that presence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly
Tracking my run through run keeper. When you're busting your balls on a run and you get an SMS or a phone call you have to dismiss the dialog with the correct button. If you miss the button and hit the wrong one, the run keeper gets preempted and your GPS tracking is gone. Thanks iPhone. In fact, this use case does not even need multitasking (in the user app sense of the word). Why not have the OS continue to log GPS data where an app that is shut down was using that part of the framework for a certain period of time. I'm sure the runkeeper guys in the init could pop the queue and fill in the gaps.
I went out last weekend and ran for about 16 miles with MotionX GPS tracker, Nike+ and music apps all running at the same time - my phone didn't ring but I dare say I could have taken a call at the same time.
MotionX GPS tracker can be quit and when re-started just draws a straight line to where you are now so you rarely lose much detail from your tracks if you need to pop out of the app for a bit. I've not tried Run Keeper yet but for £1.79 MotionX GPS is very good, I like the downloadable maps and ability to export tracks to Google Earth.
I'd like to see location awareness in the background too in 4.0 - but it's probably too costly on the battery.
Comments
http://itvibe.com/news/2734/
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/02...-on-the-loose/
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=337069
http://www.viruslist.com/en/analysis?pubid=204792080
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ga...d-it-has-begun
Well,
First and third links are a proof of concept, like so many proof of concepts of OS X virus.
The karspersky link says nothing about ACTUAL malware and it talks about iPhone also.
MemoryUp virus link is erroneus, it wasn't a virus or malware according to Google.
So, despite the years that WinMo has been in the market there is only ONE case of a trojan (not a virus) which can't spread and a proof of concept of a virus that doesn't work in the wild.
But there is irony of tech savvy people on this forum who eagerly hail even the smallest improvement in the iPhone who then say it doesn't need something as useful as multitasking.
None of us are saying we don't want multitasking. We are saying we understand why Apple has not implemented it. We'd prefer they figure out a better way to do it instead of just slapping it on there just to fulfill a feature check list.
Two years ago these people were saying Apple didn't need to allow third party apps, now they celebrate the app store as the defining feature.
I don't remember anyone saying the iPhone did not need third party apps. In fact Apple announced that their would be third party apps two months after the launch of the original iPhone. So we knew it was coming nearly a year before the App Store was launched.
It is a limitation of the networks, as was made clear in the chart.
Yes, and Daniel doesn't know that in a GSM network you can connect with EDGE and GPRS if UMTS/HSDPA doesn't have coverage and you CAN'T do voice and data at the same time. Or, does know it?
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone is not multicore and that the graphics part it's done by a GPU.
If the author had done his homework he would know that the iPhone can't do voice and data simultaneously while in EDGE or GPRS. It's not a problem of a terminal, but of the network.
If the author had done his homework he would know that runnig more than one application at the same time doesn't implies that you can install viruses or malware.
If you had done yours, you would know that most of what you just said is wrong, or misdirected.
Show where he explicitly says that the phone cpu currently has two cores.
If you understood the way networks work, and the point of having 3G, you would know, as everyone else does, that it's the ENTIRE network that allows this, and that you can't split off parts.
If you also read the article properly, and bothered to read about multiprocessing and the other facets involved, you would know that it's the WAY it's implemented that allows this. It's likely that Apple is trying to implement a better way.
It is a limitation of the networks, as was made clear in the chart.
So why is the information included in a comparison of operating systems? The information is irrelevant.
Well,
First and third links are a proof of concept, like so many proof of concepts of OS X virus.
The karspersky link says nothing about ACTUAL malware and it talks about iPhone also.
MemoryUp virus link is erroneus, it wasn't a virus or malware according to Google.
So, despite the years that WinMo has been in the market there is only ONE case of a trojan (not a virus) which can't spread and a proof of concept of a virus that doesn't work in the wild.
That's not really true. Besides that have been other virus's, I just don't have to time to look for it as I have to leave in a few minutes. There has been malware as well. Android has already had its first scare in that area.
Yes, and Daniel doesn't know that in a GSM network you can connect with EDGE and GPRS if UMTS/HSDPA doesn't have coverage and you CAN'T do voice and data at the same time. Or, does know it?
I'm sure he knows a lot more than you do about it. But CDMA can't do this at all yet. Why don't you focus on that major limitation?
As far as your soccer mom reference goes, it's not really fair. If you think you're a superior human being because you know a little computerize, that's great for you! But most of the world doesn't care for it, or your claiming that superiority. If you really want a geek phone, buy the Droid. It's made for boys like you, with the flaming meteoroids, and other manly references and all. The iPhone is very popular because people can use it without having to go to geeks like you think you are, and asking how to use it.
Thank you Mel. You just made it much easier to help me decide who to add to my ignore list.
So why is the information included in a comparison of operating systems? The information is irrelevant.
He was showing, as the title "What is Multitasking?" the different forms of what could be considered multitasking, and that it's available to some phone and network systems, but not to others (yet). Not all multitasking to the user is only through the phone hardware alone, some depends on which networks are being used. Therefor, its a valid comparison.
http://itvibe.com/news/2734/
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/02...-on-the-loose/
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=337069
http://www.viruslist.com/en/analysis?pubid=204792080
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ga...d-it-has-begun
Only the last one was an Android article and it's wrong. In the first place it wasn't a virus. It was an app that was *supposedly* gobbling up memory. Secondly, the app was doing nothing of the sort. On the Android, like any other Java system, memory is managed by the JVM. Finally, to access specific APIs, you need to ask for permission in the manifest. When installing an app, the list of access required is displayed to the user.
In case you are interested, http://developer.android.com/guide/t.../security.html
Which is not to say that you can't have a phishing app - just like on the iPhone. If you are going to enter your bank credentials or your Google account information, you had better be sure where you got the app from - and that applies for the Android, iPhone, Desktop or web.
I open my laptop from sleep and have to wait 30+ secs while it fumbles about in the background due to things like Mail, before it manages to schedule my login pane. PATHETIC.
My login pane should come on immediately. No arguments. Mail can wait. Login should be boosted to operate above the main background and even regular foreground priorities.
Window tab flipping should operate above any activity within ANY tab.
Window minimising, moving or expanding should operate at a higher priority than regular process.
This does NOT happen. Safari churns on some abstract link , DNS, Flash or whathaveyou, sometimes not using much CPU but can you close the tab? No. Can you close the window? No.
We have lost (thank god) co-operative multitasking but boy do we appear to have "co-operative windowing" which, frankly, does not help us that much when what we want to do is exit a pane, tab or window and the process is not "interested".
The window should not be under control of the application, it should be under control of the window manager. I do not want to have to ask my applications to minimise, I wish to TELL them.
All I know is, OSX lacks basic functionality that I took for granted with the "big iron" OpenVMS I used to use.
If you had done yours, you would know that most of what you just said is wrong, or misdirected.
Show where he explicitly says that the phone cpu currently has two cores.
which allows different tasks to run concurrently on different processor cores.
For example, when playing back video, the iPhone can spin off the heavy lifting involved with decoding H.264 to a specialized video processor core while the [b]main processor core continues to handle other tasks, such as listening for updates and maintaining the user interface
I've never read about cores if it is monocore. In every tech article when there is a CPU and a GPU they say processor, not core.
But as he is trying with the term multitasking, perhaps he wants to redefine how people names processors and GPU+CPU couples
If you understood the way networks work, and the point of having 3G, you would know, as everyone else does, that it's the ENTIRE network that allows this, and that you can't split off parts.
I understand a little about mobile networks and if in an article about multitasking he wants to talk about that (I don't konw why) he has to be precise and in a GSM network you don't have all the time simultaneous voice and data.
If you also read the article properly, and bothered to read about multiprocessing and the other facets involved, you would know that it's the WAY it's implemented that allows this. It's likely that Apple is trying to implement a better way.
I have read it properly, thanks.
I'm sure he knows a lot more than you do about it. But CDMA can't do this at all yet. Why don't you focus on that major limitation?
Are you sure? Really? Will you bet about it?
To be fair, you can make your own tables with your own data and post them in response, if you believe he is so inaccurate."
That wouldn't be fair at all, you're just responding like that because you want to jump to his defense no matter what. Normal fanboy reaction. I pride myself for never failing to criticize Apple, which there are numerous opportunities for--he wouldn't dare. I never said "inaccurate", I said biased. And he's meant to be the journalist, so he shouldn't be at all biased. It's quite common for a regular user here to call him biased, it happens all the time. His articles are always biased, everyone knows this. He did a history of tablet computing, in which he takes his usual sudonym of "Prince" and forgot to talk tablet computers.
You really feel that running more than one app at a time is extremely valuable on a 3 inch screen?
To be quite honest...
I find Apple's mobile OS to be little more than an app/widget launcher rather than (what many have come to know as) an actual operating system, so multi-tasking on such a 'modal' platform really isn't all that compelling given the associated limitations as dictated by its core mission, which is to run one app/widget at a time.
Forget iPad, my Powerbook is now exposing what appears to be poor quality of the OSX scheduler and process priority schema.
For example, any PalmOS based smartphone still has to have a process running in the background to detect the event of an incoming phone call, just the same as would be the case in the iPhone.
Most of the PalmOS 5 handhelds have included MP3 players from various authorized 3rd parties such as RealPlayer. Those MP3 player apps had special hooks that allowed preemptive background playback of music.
Way back when US Robotics was designing the operating system for the first Palm Pilot, they chose to license a kernel from a 3rd party rather than write their own, and then customize their own user environment on top of it. The kernel they chose was technically capable of multitasking, but the license they negotiated for its use specifically prohibited exposing the multitasking API for use by applications. This kernel was used throughout Palm's time using 68K CPUs.
Palm OS 5, released at the same time as Palm switched from 68K to ARM, was designed with a seemingly exclusive focus on maintaining backward compatibility with older software where multitasking didn't exist. The backwards compatibility was so complete that the emulated 68K environment was the default state of the system. Whenever any application launched on Palm OS 5, it always started out life as an emulated 68K app; any ARM-enhanced portions were small subroutines which were accessed by "escaping" out of the 68K emulation layer.
Can anyone point me to any Windows Mobile or Android virus or I can talk about another FUD, erroneous and bashing article of our beloved Daniel Eran Dilger?
http://itvibe.com/news/2734/
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/02...-on-the-loose/
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=337069
http://www.viruslist.com/en/analysis?pubid=204792080
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ga...d-it-has-begun
and
http://www.osnews.com/story/22723/Ph...Android_Market
This article could have been written in the 90's period. There is no excuse not to offer Multi Tasking for All Apps.
Mobile phone chip sets are more than capable of running multiple tasks (other than decided by Apple).
User experience is the big one. The battery life and speed of response of the open applications are plenty sufficient reasons. That said I suspect we'll see more multi-tasking this year. If it's controlled in a sensible and pragmatic manner we all stand to win. When I had a touch-screen WinMo phone it crashed all the time and I'd often find that apps weren't exiting properly and so tying up resources even when not in use. It was a truly awful user experience and even as someone with a degree in electronics it forced me back to a simple candy bar phone for two and a half years.
But how are you going to truly run Skype at the same time as another app. You only have room on your screen for one thing at a time.
In the same why that Phone and Nike+ handle multi-tasking on the current iPhone - in a thin strip along the top. Some apps, alarms etc won't need that presence.
Tracking my run through run keeper. When you're busting your balls on a run and you get an SMS or a phone call you have to dismiss the dialog with the correct button. If you miss the button and hit the wrong one, the run keeper gets preempted and your GPS tracking is gone. Thanks iPhone. In fact, this use case does not even need multitasking (in the user app sense of the word). Why not have the OS continue to log GPS data where an app that is shut down was using that part of the framework for a certain period of time. I'm sure the runkeeper guys in the init could pop the queue and fill in the gaps.
I went out last weekend and ran for about 16 miles with MotionX GPS tracker, Nike+ and music apps all running at the same time - my phone didn't ring but I dare say I could have taken a call at the same time.
MotionX GPS tracker can be quit and when re-started just draws a straight line to where you are now so you rarely lose much detail from your tracks if you need to pop out of the app for a bit. I've not tried Run Keeper yet but for £1.79 MotionX GPS is very good, I like the downloadable maps and ability to export tracks to Google Earth.
I'd like to see location awareness in the background too in 4.0 - but it's probably too costly on the battery.