HP plans to beat Apple iPad price, Microsoft Courier still in works

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  • Reply 41 of 140
    Quote:

    2. The iPad has an under-featured and crippled OS. The T101MT runs a full version of Windows 7.



    Sure. Everyone needs a full version of Windows 7 to read e-books



    I just finished reading this:



    http://mattgemmell.com/2010/02/05/ho...pete-with-ipad



    Interesting stuff and pretty on the mark.



    The problem I see is that HP and Acer etc make the hardware, then they turn to MS to get the software. MS hands them Windows with touch enabled.



    The problem is that Windows is a desktop OS first and foremost. A tablet is not a desktop computer.



    I'll adnit, before the iPad announcement, I was hoping for a 10" tablet that ran OS X.



    I was kind of disappointed when it was announced.



    Over the past few weeks I've actually found places in my life where the iPad could (and will, I'm gonna get one for sure) come in super handy. And thinking about the iPad <b>not</b> as a computer makes me realize what Jobs and company is up to... and they're not simply giving us a keyboardless computer.
  • Reply 42 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sticknick View Post


    Sure. Everyone needs a full version of Windows 7 to read e-books



    For Windows users Tablets are not used to read ebooks, most Windows users expect their Tablet to be a fully functioning system.



    Also if they are used to read ebooks the fact is the Kindle software can be downloaded to any system for free, there is even a Mac version coming. So if you want to read ebooks on an lcd screen you already have everything you need, no reason for anyone to buy more hardware.
  • Reply 43 of 140
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    For Windows users Tablets are not used to read ebooks, most Windows users expect their Tablet to be a fully functioning system.



    Also if they are used to read ebooks the fact is the Kindle software can be downloaded to any system for free, there is even a Mac version coming. So if you want to read ebooks on an lcd screen you already have everything you need, no reason for anyone to buy more hardware.



    1) HP being successful in the tablet market up until is like being the thinnest kid at fat camp.



    2) There is a reason why tablet's having taken off yet: shoehorning a desktop OS into a mobile device.



    3) For MS to get this right they'll have to cater to the HW, not force the HW to cater to the OS.



    4) People want to read on a tablet. The Kindle has surely sold many more limited e-ink devices than HP has tablets to consumers.
  • Reply 44 of 140
    icyfogicyfog Posts: 338member
    Vapoware anyone? Throwing something together to deter people from buying the iPad?

    Seems very likely to me.
  • Reply 45 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) HP being successful in the tablet market up until is like being the thinnest kid at fat camp.



    2) There is a reason why tablet's having taken off yet: shoehorning a desktop OS into a mobile device.



    3) For MS to get this right they'll have to cater to the HW, not force the HW to cater to the OS.



    4) People want to read on a tablet. The Kindle has surely sold many more limited e-ink devices than HP has tablets to consumers.



    Those are all opinion and bias ones at that. The fact is there is no real market for another ereader even more so for one that lacks even basic features.



    HP makes a damn good tablet and at least its powerful enough to run a full OS, something you feel is a fault but the rest of the working world wants.



    How about if I go back and pull your old posts leading up to the iPad and see if even 10% of your wants or predictions were met. Want to bet it doesn't even come close?



    Weren't you the one that said without a doubt it was going to have a new UI and there was no way it was going to run either OSX or the iPhone OS? There is at least another 10 predictions you had about this product that clearly showed you had your head firmly up your butt, as always.



    The fact is consumers aren't going to rush to buy a product that lacks even basic features when they have no reason to purchase any additional hardware to read ebooks. The Kindle software is available for free to all Windows users and I believe will soon be available to all Mac users.



    Also members on this forum keep talking about 499.00 when that is the most basic model. Want 3G add another 130.00 plus a 360.00 a year for service. Not to mention you will be trapped into buying all your content from iTunes which even hardcore Apple users are starting to find old.



    The list of features this multi function device lacks is really the only thing that has made news.
  • Reply 46 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post


    I'm still under the impression that nearly no Windows user want to use any simplified slate computing device. The closest thing to a slate I've gathered that any Windows user wants is a convertible netbook such as the Asus Eee PC T101MT.

    http://www.gizmag.com/asus-eeepc-t10...otebook/14223/

    This supposedly is the ultimate hybrid mobile solution for any Windows user.



    tell me about how long the battery lasts watching movie on that EeePC?
  • Reply 47 of 140
    As has been commented previously, and succinctly in Matt Gemmell's commentary, we geeks tend to think that the average consumer thinks exactly they same way we do about computers. The bare reality is, while we love to tinker and bash on our computers, the average consumer breaks down something like this (YMMV): roughly 70% of the average consumer reasonably "are OK" with what their computer does for them - in spite of the steep learning curve and relatively high maintenance requirements. These general report their experience as tolerable. Of the remaining 30%, roughly 20% actively loathe their computer experience and regard them as fairly intolerable intrusions into their lives - a necessary evil if you will. The remaining 10% are comprised of a spectrum of users ranging from luckily clueless but happy, to enlightened user, to avid and interested user to abject geek.



    To flog an already overused comparison, the small minority of geeks in the user/consumer category are similar in nature to motorheads of the 20th century - wanting to be able to mess-around with their vehicles without hinderance. The large majority of consumers however bear a grudge or mild dislike for the term computer and what it represents. Having a vehicle that has an automatic transmission, power windows & doors, heated seats/air conditioning and a sweet sound system is the market of the average consumer. Ease of use, convenience, reliability.
  • Reply 48 of 140
    daharderdaharder Posts: 1,580member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macmondo View Post


    tell me about how long the battery lasts watching movie on that EeePC?



    [CENTER]Considerably newer/more advanced than the EeePC, though still a netbook, is my Lenovo S10-3t



    (Intel Pinetrail CPU, 2GB RAM, (upgraded) 500GB HD, PCIe slot, 3g-ready, 10.1 inch Multi-touch/Capacitive/Widescreen/Display, running Windows 7 Home Premium)



    that consistently plays movies for 7+ hours (best time of 7-hours 24 minutes) relying solely upon its included 8-cell battery.



    It's fantastic little Windows 7 convertible with a highly responsive capacitive/multi-touch screen all for well under US 600.00.



    No, it's not a MID like the iPad, and it does weigh in under 3lbs, yet it is a full-fledged/autonomous personal computer (including all expected ports/expansion slots/webcam) with a 'footprint' very close to that of Apple's iPad, and still runs any/all Windows programs I've installed on it without complaint.[/CENTER]
  • Reply 49 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post


    LOL No one can compete with Itunes at this point;



    Zune can compete. It may not have many apps and games at this point but the music subscription model and it's superior software are advantages.



    Also a plus is the ability to stream full HD content (1080p) to the Xbox and a portable player to carry around HD content (720p) to play it everywhere as a cheaper BluRay player alternative. Another advantage is the good integration of a social network.
  • Reply 50 of 140
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post


    I'm still under the impression that nearly no Windows user want to use any simplified slate computing device.



    Like the other posters said, you're confusing "Windows user" with Internet browsing "tech nerds." The overall market is bigger than Windows users and the tech nerds are a tiny niche within it. Oddly enough, there is a large enough "niche" market of folks who value design, usability, and fun-of-use enough to pay a premium for a device and or service that delivers those. If Apple can get the content and continue on the usual progression of updating their products with the iPad, they will have this market (2-4 million) who enjoys design and elegance over technical specs. If they continue to get the content, they will have a good fraction (tens of millions of units) of Windows users and "normal people" buying the iPad.



    This will be billions of dollars, and the tech nerds will hate Apple even more for it if they can create and capture it.



    Quote:

    The closest thing to a slate I've gathered that any Windows user wants is a convertible netbook such as the Asus Eee PC T101MT.

    http://www.gizmag.com/asus-eeepc-t10...otebook/14223/

    This supposedly is the ultimate hybrid mobile solution for any Windows user.



    A short list of why Windows users feel that the iPad is a major fail :



    1. The iPad is far too expensive. The T101MT is nearly the same price or less but with more features.

    2. The iPad has an under-featured and crippled OS. The T101MT runs a full version of Windows 7.

    3. The iPad has no keyboard. The T101MT has the best of both worlds of keyboard and touch.

    4. The iPad lacks ports. The T101MT has all the standard ports of a full-size computer.

    5. The iPad won't multitask or run Flash. The T101MT does both with ease.

    6. The iPad doesn't have a user replaceable battery. The T101MT does.

    7. The iPad doesn't have a hard drive which limits storage. The T101MT has a huge hard drive.

    8. The iPad is controlled by Steve Jobs. The T101MT is completely controlled by the end user.



    These are the typical specs and negatives that are levied upon Apple products. All Apple products. A MacBook Pro has 1, 4, 6, and 8. It owns the high market. The problem with these spec lists, is that they are not complete. There are things Apple products have that are great features that are never listed in the specs. Here's a list of specs that never get talked about:



    9. The iPad is 9.6 x 7.5 x 0.5 mm. The T101MT is 10.4 x 7 x 1.2 inches. The iPad is 2.4x smaller than the T101MT and will therefore be much easier to carry around. Heck, all of Apple's laptops are easier to carry around than the T101MT.

    10. The iPad is 1.6 lb. The T101MT is 2.9 lbs. The iPad will be easier to use in "tablet" form at almost half the weight.

    11. The iPad has 4:3 9.7" 1024x768 IPS LCD screen. Visually, this screen is probably 2x as good as the T101MT screen, which is a 16/9.4 1024x600 TN (I suspect) LCD screen. The iPad screen will be better, brighter, at larger angles and more usable in portrait and landscape orientations.

    12. The iPad has an advertised battery life of 10 hrs on a 25 WHr battery. The T101MT has an advertised battery life of 6.5 hrs on a 35 WHr battery.

    13. The iPad is basically "instant-on" with a 30-day standby time. The T101MT isn't.

    14. The iPad will have uniquely designed applications that'll turn it into different device. They'll be much more usable and fun. The T101MT will have Windows-based applications.



    Everything about the iPad is geared toward making it usable in a non-computing way. The T101MT is a small Windows laptop. So the picture painted for the T101MT is really just a computing solution for people wanting a small and cheap laptop. Not what the iPad is designed for. The iPad is designed for people who want to web browse, do light-weight computing tasks, etc, in a natural way. Apple is attempting to make the usual computing trappings invisible and disappear. Computing nerds really don't see it and simply don't understand what Apple does.



    Whether it translates into success, who knows? But Apple laid the boom on the cell phone market with the iPhone and the DAP with the iPod. That's not a bad track record, and speaks to there being a market for people who want to take advantage of the things that a computer could provide, but doesn't want to deal with all of the technical trappings.



    Quote:

    These are just a few of the reasons why Windows users say the iPad is an overpriced and under-featured piece of junk that no well-informed, self-respecting computer user should buy. Compared to the the T101MT, not only the iPad, but also the HP slate and all the other touch-only slates are devices that nobody in their right minds would ever buy. Bill Gates also supports this theory by also wanting a stylus for pen input along with a keyboard and touch.



    It's very possible that these "simplified" computing devices will outnumber PC devices. (It doesn't mean that they'll eat into the PC market, just that it'll be bigger unit market in the same way cell phones are bigger unit market than PC markets).
  • Reply 51 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    As has been commented previously, and succinctly in Matt Gemmell's commentary, we geeks tend to think that the average consumer thinks exactly they same way we do about computers. The bare reality is, while we love to tinker and bash on our computers, the average consumer breaks down something like this (YMMV): roughly 70% of the average consumer reasonably "are OK" with what their computer does for them - in spite of the steep learning curve and relatively high maintenance requirements. These general report their experience as tolerable. Of the remaining 30%, roughly 20% actively loathe their computer experience and regard them as fairly intolerable intrusions into their lives - a necessary evil if you will. The remaining 10% are comprised of a spectrum of users ranging from luckily clueless but happy, to enlightened user, to avid and interested user to abject geek.



    To flog an already overused comparison, the small minority of geeks in the user/consumer category are similar in nature to motorheads of the 20th century - wanting to be able to mess-around with their vehicles without hinderance. The large majority of consumers however bear a grudge or mild dislike for the term computer and what it represents. Having a vehicle that has an automatic transmission, power windows & doors, heated seats/air conditioning and a sweet sound system is the market of the average consumer. Ease of use, convenience, reliability.



    Maybe you are right. But the iPad isn't a replacement for a computer! That is the big problem here. You still need a computer to exchange files with it and you can't do chatting/surfing the full web/ and dont have a webcam. These are things the most non-geeks are using their PCs for.

    The iPad is for gadget lovers who have some money over. IMHO
  • Reply 52 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macmondo View Post


    tell me about how long the battery lasts watching movie on that EeePC?



    I really was shocked as I realized that you are not able to watch videos in landscape while the iPad is in the dock! How terrible is this?
  • Reply 53 of 140
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    I'd like to see more about the Courier concept. To me that's an interesting device, especially with the whole use-it-like-a-book idea. The HP Slate maybe useful for more professional users of tablet computers (that want a full OS), but it'll be too much for somebody that wants an Internet appliance (a la iPad).



    Ultimately, I see a spectrum of devices emerging. The iPad will be for consumers. And Windows based devices will largely focus on professional and industrial users.
  • Reply 54 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    i run Windows 7 at work on a 5 or 6 year old HP desktop with a P4 chip. i can go to youtube and stream flash with only 50% of the CPU being used. compare that to my G4 Mac Mini that stutters when playing the same videos



    Hence the (alleged) complaint by Steve Jobs that Adobe engineers have been lazy. There is no legitimate reason Flash is such a pig except that they have not made the effort to improve their code. Other video formats perform well on Macs since QuickTime was introduced about 20 years ago. For example many movies and TV shows you watch are edited on Macs. For that matter the original professional video editing program was introduced on the Mac by Adobe: Adobe Premier.
  • Reply 55 of 140
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:



    Looks pretty sweet - What don't you like about it?
  • Reply 56 of 140
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    iPhone-like marketshare or iPod like marketshare or somewhere in the middle.



    So are you going with HP or Dell for your multitasking, Farmville playing Adobe Flash? based tablet goodness?



    I dunno, probably neither. I've seen some cool designs from companies that I've never heard of before. And I am rarely an early adopter.



    Right now, I'm mostly interested in checking out Android based tablets. I can't see that Win7 would be the best OS for a device like that.
  • Reply 57 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    I really was shocked as I realized that you are not able to watch videos in landscape while the iPad is in the dock! How terrible is this?



    it's really terrible. Why would you dock it during watching video? and if it's for charging the battery, why couldn't you simply connect it with a cable? I don't charge my iPod nano with dock either.
  • Reply 58 of 140
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macmondo View Post


    tell me about how long the battery lasts watching movie on that EeePC?



    Good question. Does anybody know the answer?
  • Reply 59 of 140
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


    [CENTER]

    It's fantastic little Windows 7 convertible with a highly responsive capacitive/multi-touch screen all for well under US 600.00.



    [/CENTER]





    It looks very cool. How do you like Win7 when you're in touchscreen mode? And is the Starter Edition missing anything crucial that you've noticed?
  • Reply 60 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    ... But the iPad isn't a replacement for a computer! ...



    Bingo! You've nailed it! It wasn't an oversight or accident. It is the sort of bold move that it seems only Apple is willing to make, like they did with the original Mac and the iPhone. The only question is if the third time is even more of a charm or is it mighty Casey striking out? Based on the iPhone experience I think they will shock and mortify their geek detractors. My only concern about the device is how hot it might be to hold. You could fry an egg on the bottom of my MBP. If they haven't sorted out that issue then there might not be joy in Mudville.
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