If the FCC somehow forces Apple to make a Flash plug-in to work with their mobile devices, will that nullify any claims Adobe has over their IP which Apple would have to use to make said plug-in?
Would the FCC have the power to override Patent Law in forcing companies to comply with directions such as this?
Isn't Adobe at fault for keeping Flash as a closed and proprietary de-facto web standard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfgoku
A law student at Columbia Law School put together a blog post about how Apple might be forced to support Flash, as the FCC might try to make a net neutrality argument against Apple's exclusion of Flash. I personally don't think Apple will be subject to the same rules as an ISP like Comcast, but maybe with enough bad press Apple will be convinced to make a change. Disclosure: I too am a student at Columbia Law and the blog editor for the journal I'm linking to.
I still think if Adobe proves that Flash 10.1--which offloads Flash code processing to the GPU to reduce CPU usage--has little effect on overall battery performance, we may be heading for a potential legal showdown over Flash on the iPad as a violation of the Clayton Antitrust Act by Apple. Now that will be a case that could last for years. And I'm sure the aggressive antitrust authorities of the European Union are watching, too.
What part of the Clayton Antitrust Act are you speaking of? The part about "sales on the condition that (A) the buyer or lessee not deal with the competitors of the seller or lessor ("exclusive dealings") or (B) the buyer also purchase another different product ("tying") but only when these acts substantially lessen competition"
Apple isn't selling you an iPad "on the condition that you not deal with Adobe or Flash", nor are they only selling you the product if you buy an another different product tied to it.
Flash has not been released for any mobile platform. It's just not Apple's fault that in 2010 Flash still isn't available on mobile browsers that have no restricitons on development.
[/url]
Flash has been on the PSP since version 2.70 of the firmware.
Flash has been on the PSP since version 2.70 of the firmware.
1) That is Flash v6, you might as well have Flash Lite or no Flash at all since Flash v6 came out in March 2002, 8 years ago and was outdated by v7 the next year.
1) That is Flash v6, you might as well have Flash Lite or no Flash at all since Flash v6 came out in March 2002, 8 years ago and was outdated by v7 the next year.
2) That isn't a phone, aka mobile
Just saying that ya need to be specific. The DS is a mobile device, just like the PSP. And Flash has been made for mobile devices. Now if you were specially talking about Flash 10.1, then say 10.1.
Just saying that ya need to be specific. The DS is a mobile device, just like the PSP. And Flash has been made for mobile devices. Now if you were specially talking about Flash 10.1, then say 10.1.
You have a point. I was using it as mo-bile, but that isn't a common term in the US (yet) and its clearly a poly-heteronym with the same spelling, different pronunciation, but distinct but related meanings. My bad.
So apparently the Android hackers have already imported HTC Desire's firmware into the Nexus One with Flash 10.1 enabled.
And it runs perfectly. On a phone.
Battery life hasn't been shown in any of the demos yet, but that's definitely going to be a bullet point in competitors Android handsets now.
Speaking if battery life. Does everyone know that having a jb phone which I've done ands it's pretty cool, especially the apps aka GV, that spring board can sometimes use more than 10% of the battery life at all times. I tried to kill it to see what would happen and the phone rebooted turning on, of course, Springboard.
OT does anyone know how to kill mail? My phones jb but even when I kill the process, have every setting on manual and enen tried turning of all account including iCal and email, it starts running about 5 seconds later? I have also changed the ssh password.
On Topic, like I said. We were number three in terms of global speed not to long ago and now are ranked at number twenty eight. Whoever gets TV or Streaming to work
You're off base here. Apple is under no obligation to support Adobe's technology on any or all of their products. Period. Just like they were under no obligation to support wma on the iPod. Remember the famous lawsuit when Microsoft sued Apple for that? Oh wait, it never happened.
The point about the Apple employee who authored an HTML5 document for W3C. Are you the one that keeps harping on that? Apple is a member of that industry group along with Adobe and dozens of other companies. That's how industry standards groups work, and always have. Apple is a member, state their support for the HTML5 project publicly, and contribute expertise and manpower to the effort. If there's anything suspicious going on here, it's Adobe's alleged sabotage of the HTML5 review and approval process.
Speaking of which. Apple was one if the first to join AMD hypertransport something or other.
Man would it be cool if AMD could come up with a fast chip and merge with Apple. I can remember the days when intel had to run a whole gigahertz just to match AMD. the duo core ended that and you have to wonder if AMD will ever come out with something like that again. Would make CPUs very cheap again.
Apple's business model for ages was selling personal computers, yet at some point they started with mp3 players and phones... tablet comes next... and judging from another article here, they might have some more devices soon. That is already changing business model, and changing it big.
Yes they do have free apps out there, but it seems to me majority of them (useless fart apps etc. aside) are demo/lite versions of commercial, pay-for titles.
That aside, there is another thing - control. Not only that free Flash apps would impact Apps Store, but Apple would lose (some) control over what is being available for their platform.
About a year ago unread an article that stated justbthat. It's not that the can't get it on the iPhone but the fear of adobe apps. Hey don't shoot
me. I'm just talking about an article I read about. Not sure what to believe anymore with apple. Gone are the days where most apple peeps were logic, fcp crowd and then came the iPhone, dropping computer from their name and making mobile me icon look like something from msft. Who knows. Who cares. Just give us the best experience at a reasonable price.
look at what cyndia and icy did to the iPhone. I expect that the underground will have everything from 3rd party hard drive kits to flash with DVR in less than a months time of it's release. So for all the pro flash folks, no need to get your panties in a bunch.
For the conspiracy crowd whether they think jobs fears adobe apps or greed, free network shows vs buying it via iTunes, I also think the under ground will develop FTP programs, usenet programs, and play almost any codec around, in fact I'm going to go out on a limb and say the underground community contributes in a huge way. Much larger impact than jb iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
You've got your tenses mixed. What you means is "if we believe the Adobe vaporware hype, then the problem will go away some day".
Early reviews on 10.1 are pretty dismal. Slow, choppy playback and long delays in using menus. If Adobe had wanted to develop decent software, they've had years to do so. Apple would be crazy to listen to them now.
If Adobe ever DOES release a decent version of Flash, Apple can always add it. But there's no rational reason why they should put a crappy version on now in the hopes that Adobe might some day learn how to write acceptable code.
Why should anyone believe that Adobe's blog is unbiased? If Adobe had wanted to address the problem, they could have done so. They're the only ones who have accLess to the code. As it is, Flash is widely recognized as slow and buggy.
Look
I hope you're aware that making a copy of a rented BD from Netflix is illegal. Some of us have morals.
Commonly multimedia is a part of my daily life and day to day activities, and without it things would seem pretty boring or dull.
Most webforms online I fill out are Flash based and without Flash I would not see these websites as they were intended to be seen as the developers made them for site visitors to see them.
And as a developer, I tend to use Flash for key areas in network development, graphics, interacivity and dynamic data management with or without connectivity.
From a graphics standpoint:
Flash has moved forward into the 3D rendering realm and games such as Interstellar Marines is a good example: http://www.interstellarmarines.com
A good representation for it's 3D is in it's development which is highly simplified but similiar coding sytanx and names as DirectX and OpenGL, with hardware acceleration options, which make it very powerful, especially given the fact all this can be done in a browser or application locally or remotely. Even audio is good and streamed video playback.
Sites like YouTube enable fast streamed video and audio with Hi-Def playback options now. Especially sites such as Hulu.
Alternative Flash Controllability:
Touch and Wii Remote options do exist, even WiiFlash on TV and to control on screen projector presentations.
From a realistic standpoint, most websites these days use Flash, I spend some time each day watching videos, movies, and shows, mostly through Hulu for Movies and TV Shows, and Youtube for information.
The least Apple could do is provide the option to turn Flash on or off, and keep it simple, so everyone is happy and satisfied with the product, if you want to turn it on then turn it on, if you don't want it on the turn it off, simple.
Personally, I want and need it on or else I'm going to have to spend time figuring how to develop custom app's and solutions to get by most the issues I'm facing with lack of Flash support on this device and I'd really rather be spending time working on the projects I'm already working on and not that.
While I can see some security and performance points, I'm not totally sold on the Flash solely uses so much more battery power than anything else thing, except when dealing with the devices screen being on and processor being used more, and if that is the issue then the hardware design needs improved to deal more intense applications, just like with the battery and charging systems, after all this is what they are is a hardware and software developer, and since they own the technologies they develop might as well spend time making solutions and not excuses to why their hardware doesn't support it.
It's a new start for them so I hope to see these touch devices evolve over time and not be lacking in features people really want and need to use each day, I don't need another newspaper reader or portable mp3/video player, picture viewer, calender, calculator, or simple organizer. I need powerful touch screen webbrowser with wireless networking using the full Wireless N spec and freedom to move around and touch the screen to interact with and manage data. Watch movies and videos and listen to music online through the handheld device, as well as remote desktop and online file host management with atleast 25GB online storage capacity like Skydrive and remote capability such as Live Mesh.
I used to be able to do simliar with Pocket PC back in 2002 on an Axim X50v and Windows Mobile 6.5, until the wireless stopped working. And Windows Mobile 7 will not run 6.x code. It is based on Silverlight and .Net. Everything except a few basic programs will not work under Windows Mobile 7. The focus is currently on games including some XBox Live functionality for gaming and messaging. There will be a Microsoft App store with an easy approval process.
But I really want to see Flash support in the iPhone/iTouch/iPad with ability to turn it on and off and no jail breaking required to make it do things it should already do.
Comments
Adobe HAS NOT MADE a Flash plug-in for iPhone OS.
If the FCC somehow forces Apple to make a Flash plug-in to work with their mobile devices, will that nullify any claims Adobe has over their IP which Apple would have to use to make said plug-in?
Would the FCC have the power to override Patent Law in forcing companies to comply with directions such as this?
Isn't Adobe at fault for keeping Flash as a closed and proprietary de-facto web standard?
A law student at Columbia Law School put together a blog post about how Apple might be forced to support Flash, as the FCC might try to make a net neutrality argument against Apple's exclusion of Flash. I personally don't think Apple will be subject to the same rules as an ISP like Comcast, but maybe with enough bad press Apple will be convinced to make a change. Disclosure: I too am a student at Columbia Law and the blog editor for the journal I'm linking to.
http://www.stlr.org/2010/02/is-the-i...lash-unlawful/
I still think if Adobe proves that Flash 10.1--which offloads Flash code processing to the GPU to reduce CPU usage--has little effect on overall battery performance, we may be heading for a potential legal showdown over Flash on the iPad as a violation of the Clayton Antitrust Act by Apple. Now that will be a case that could last for years. And I'm sure the aggressive antitrust authorities of the European Union are watching, too.
What part of the Clayton Antitrust Act are you speaking of? The part about "sales on the condition that (A) the buyer or lessee not deal with the competitors of the seller or lessor ("exclusive dealings") or (B) the buyer also purchase another different product ("tying") but only when these acts substantially lessen competition"
Apple isn't selling you an iPad "on the condition that you not deal with Adobe or Flash", nor are they only selling you the product if you buy an another different product tied to it.
A web browser that could display a website format accurately and then zoom in was not around before the iPhone.
Opera for Nintendo DS (July 2006) and Nintendo Wii (trial release December 2006 , full release April 2007)
Flash has not been released for any mobile platform. It's just not Apple's fault that in 2010 Flash still isn't available on mobile browsers that have no restricitons on development.
[/url]
Flash has been on the PSP since version 2.70 of the firmware.
Opera for Nintendo DS (July 2006) and Nintendo Wii (trial release December 2006 , full release April 2007)
Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR2yfhBSvR0
2) They aren't phones, aka mobiles
Flash has been on the PSP since version 2.70 of the firmware.
1) That is Flash v6, you might as well have Flash Lite or no Flash at all since Flash v6 came out in March 2002, 8 years ago and was outdated by v7 the next year.
2) That isn't a phone, aka mobile
No Flash = No Sale
For me, No Flash = Sale
In fact, I'll be waiting for the Flashtards to return their iPads so that I can get the nice refurb price from the Apple Store.
topic closed
Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR2yfhBSvR0
2) They aren't phones, aka mobiles
1) That is Flash v6, you might as well have Flash Lite or no Flash at all since Flash v6 came out in March 2002, 8 years ago and was outdated by v7 the next year.
2) That isn't a phone, aka mobile
Just saying that ya need to be specific. The DS is a mobile device, just like the PSP. And Flash has been made for mobile devices. Now if you were specially talking about Flash 10.1, then say 10.1.
Just saying that ya need to be specific. The DS is a mobile device, just like the PSP. And Flash has been made for mobile devices. Now if you were specially talking about Flash 10.1, then say 10.1.
You have a point. I was using it as mo-bile, but that isn't a common term in the US (yet) and its clearly a poly-heteronym with the same spelling, different pronunciation, but distinct but related meanings. My bad.
So apparently the Android hackers have already imported HTC Desire's firmware into the Nexus One with Flash 10.1 enabled.
And it runs perfectly. On a phone.
Battery life hasn't been shown in any of the demos yet, but that's definitely going to be a bullet point in competitors Android handsets now.
Speaking if battery life. Does everyone know that having a jb phone which I've done ands it's pretty cool, especially the apps aka GV, that spring board can sometimes use more than 10% of the battery life at all times. I tried to kill it to see what would happen and the phone rebooted turning on, of course, Springboard.
OT does anyone know how to kill mail? My phones jb but even when I kill the process, have every setting on manual and enen tried turning of all account including iCal and email, it starts running about 5 seconds later? I have also changed the ssh password.
On Topic, like I said. We were number three in terms of global speed not to long ago and now are ranked at number twenty eight. Whoever gets TV or Streaming to work
without wifi are going to do very well.
You're off base here. Apple is under no obligation to support Adobe's technology on any or all of their products. Period. Just like they were under no obligation to support wma on the iPod. Remember the famous lawsuit when Microsoft sued Apple for that? Oh wait, it never happened.
The point about the Apple employee who authored an HTML5 document for W3C. Are you the one that keeps harping on that? Apple is a member of that industry group along with Adobe and dozens of other companies. That's how industry standards groups work, and always have. Apple is a member, state their support for the HTML5 project publicly, and contribute expertise and manpower to the effort. If there's anything suspicious going on here, it's Adobe's alleged sabotage of the HTML5 review and approval process.
Speaking of which. Apple was one if the first to join AMD hypertransport something or other.
Man would it be cool if AMD could come up with a fast chip and merge with Apple. I can remember the days when intel had to run a whole gigahertz just to match AMD. the duo core ended that and you have to wonder if AMD will ever come out with something like that again. Would make CPUs very cheap again.
Business models are prone to changes.
Apple's business model for ages was selling personal computers, yet at some point they started with mp3 players and phones... tablet comes next... and judging from another article here, they might have some more devices soon. That is already changing business model, and changing it big.
Yes they do have free apps out there, but it seems to me majority of them (useless fart apps etc. aside) are demo/lite versions of commercial, pay-for titles.
That aside, there is another thing - control. Not only that free Flash apps would impact Apps Store, but Apple would lose (some) control over what is being available for their platform.
About a year ago unread an article that stated justbthat. It's not that the can't get it on the iPhone but the fear of adobe apps. Hey don't shoot
me. I'm just talking about an article I read about. Not sure what to believe anymore with apple. Gone are the days where most apple peeps were logic, fcp crowd and then came the iPhone, dropping computer from their name and making mobile me icon look like something from msft. Who knows. Who cares. Just give us the best experience at a reasonable price.
For the conspiracy crowd whether they think jobs fears adobe apps or greed, free network shows vs buying it via iTunes, I also think the under ground will develop FTP programs, usenet programs, and play almost any codec around, in fact I'm going to go out on a limb and say the underground community contributes in a huge way. Much larger impact than jb iPhones.
You've got your tenses mixed. What you means is "if we believe the Adobe vaporware hype, then the problem will go away some day".
Early reviews on 10.1 are pretty dismal. Slow, choppy playback and long delays in using menus. If Adobe had wanted to develop decent software, they've had years to do so. Apple would be crazy to listen to them now.
If Adobe ever DOES release a decent version of Flash, Apple can always add it. But there's no rational reason why they should put a crappy version on now in the hopes that Adobe might some day learn how to write acceptable code.
Why should anyone believe that Adobe's blog is unbiased? If Adobe had wanted to address the problem, they could have done so. They're the only ones who have accLess to the code. As it is, Flash is widely recognized as slow and buggy.
Look
I hope you're aware that making a copy of a rented BD from Netflix is illegal. Some of us have morals.
Commonly multimedia is a part of my daily life and day to day activities, and without it things would seem pretty boring or dull.
Most webforms online I fill out are Flash based and without Flash I would not see these websites as they were intended to be seen as the developers made them for site visitors to see them.
And as a developer, I tend to use Flash for key areas in network development, graphics, interacivity and dynamic data management with or without connectivity.
From a graphics standpoint:
Flash has moved forward into the 3D rendering realm and games such as Interstellar Marines is a good example: http://www.interstellarmarines.com
A good representation for it's 3D is in it's development which is highly simplified but similiar coding sytanx and names as DirectX and OpenGL, with hardware acceleration options, which make it very powerful, especially given the fact all this can be done in a browser or application locally or remotely. Even audio is good and streamed video playback.
Flash3D
http://www.flash3d.org/#/About/Features
Sites like YouTube enable fast streamed video and audio with Hi-Def playback options now. Especially sites such as Hulu.
Alternative Flash Controllability:
Touch and Wii Remote options do exist, even WiiFlash on TV and to control on screen projector presentations.
From a realistic standpoint, most websites these days use Flash, I spend some time each day watching videos, movies, and shows, mostly through Hulu for Movies and TV Shows, and Youtube for information.
The least Apple could do is provide the option to turn Flash on or off, and keep it simple, so everyone is happy and satisfied with the product, if you want to turn it on then turn it on, if you don't want it on the turn it off, simple.
Personally, I want and need it on or else I'm going to have to spend time figuring how to develop custom app's and solutions to get by most the issues I'm facing with lack of Flash support on this device and I'd really rather be spending time working on the projects I'm already working on and not that.
While I can see some security and performance points, I'm not totally sold on the Flash solely uses so much more battery power than anything else thing, except when dealing with the devices screen being on and processor being used more, and if that is the issue then the hardware design needs improved to deal more intense applications, just like with the battery and charging systems, after all this is what they are is a hardware and software developer, and since they own the technologies they develop might as well spend time making solutions and not excuses to why their hardware doesn't support it.
It's a new start for them so I hope to see these touch devices evolve over time and not be lacking in features people really want and need to use each day, I don't need another newspaper reader or portable mp3/video player, picture viewer, calender, calculator, or simple organizer. I need powerful touch screen webbrowser with wireless networking using the full Wireless N spec and freedom to move around and touch the screen to interact with and manage data. Watch movies and videos and listen to music online through the handheld device, as well as remote desktop and online file host management with atleast 25GB online storage capacity like Skydrive and remote capability such as Live Mesh.
I used to be able to do simliar with Pocket PC back in 2002 on an Axim X50v and Windows Mobile 6.5, until the wireless stopped working. And Windows Mobile 7 will not run 6.x code. It is based on Silverlight and .Net. Everything except a few basic programs will not work under Windows Mobile 7. The focus is currently on games including some XBox Live functionality for gaming and messaging. There will be a Microsoft App store with an easy approval process.
But I really want to see Flash support in the iPhone/iTouch/iPad with ability to turn it on and off and no jail breaking required to make it do things it should already do.